Talk:Walter Audisio

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Walter Audisio article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Biography: Military / Politics and Government

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the military biography work group (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as Low-importance).

Italy Low‑importance

	Italy portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Italy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Italy on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ItalyWikipedia:WikiProject ItalyTemplate:WikiProject ItalyItaly articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: Biography / European / Italian / World War II Start‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

Start

This article has been rated as Start-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion not met

Associated task forces:
/
	Military biography task force
	European military history task force
	Italian military history task force (c. 500–present)
	World War II task force

Edit war[edit]

There is an edit war going on here, people are changing the word between "murder" and "execution". What is the wikipedia standard conduct in a situation such as this? -- NIC1138 (talk) 16:20, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The term "killing" is clearly NPOV and adheres to WP policy such as WP:ASF. The term "murder" is clearly POV and is an attempt to put opinions into the article. This is why I have reverted it, and will continue to do so. Many thanks for your attention. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 17:47, 8 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I translated this article from the Italian, which doesn't have this bit. I used "execution" because I think its what he used and would have considered the act. "Killing" is fine, but using "murder" during WWII is not appropriate or typical. As a possible alternative, we could say he "was responsible for the death of Mussolini", avoiding judgment.--Patrick Ѻ 18:02, 8 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The killing/murder of Mussolini was extra-judicial and as thus illegal. It is in the same category as when somebody is a victim of a Mafia hit, the victim was murdered. In this case the victim (Mussolini) was murdered. Please see the talkpage of Mussolini's article to see the consensus of the legalities. Murder is the "unlawful killing of a human person with malice aforethought". Certainly the case here. - Gennarous (talk) 18:05, 8 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

During wars many people die. Their deaths are all extra judicial but not necessarily unlawful or illegal. Plus your words at Rab concentration camp were "The ones who died, did so because around that period (the early 40s) Italy and the things it controlled had started to crumble and was poorly organised, people died in Italy too of starvation from the country been ripped in half. The picture you're painting does not reflect reality, or neutrality". You are trying to have it both ways at different articles to suit your personal POV. AlasdairGreen27 (talk) 18:39, 8 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes during wars many people die, but how that is relevent to the specifics of each individual case is hardly relevent. If Mussolini had been shot by Audisio on a battle field, leading his men in a conflict then he would have been "killed", people who are entering the theatre of war to fight are not dying in "extra judicial" circumstances. Read the circumstances Mussolini's death. What is your rationale for removing the fact that this murder was "extra judicial"? Apart from the obvious fact that, as your talk page says, you're fundamentally bias when it comes to all articles about fascism. - Gennarous (talk) 19:05, 8 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

First, importantly, let's not be personal. Second, as I understand it, Audisio was ordered to carry out an execution by an organization which claimed legitimacy. Even lacking in due process, I think this takes it out of the category of murder. And I don't consider the partisan rebellion in the same category as the mafia. They were a legitimate combatant in WWII. Third, Mussolini's talk page came to the consensus of "summary execution" not "murder". Lastly, I'd like to note that there are plenty of sources that claim Audisio wasn't the person who killed/murdered/executed the dictator. I think "responsible for the death" also avoids this line of argument.--Patrick Ѻ 19:14, 8 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The group responsible for the murder, had no more legal "legitimacy" than men sitting around a table at a Mafia meeting, discussing ways to kill a rival. The communists who killed him were not acting within the laws of the country and Mussolini was not tried by the court of a country. Just as the way Nick Berg was murdered was extra judicial, the outsider militants and rebels don't make the laws of the country, they are not vested with such authority by the countries rulers and so their actions are done with no legitimacy.

It is very clear, whoever killed the man did so illegally, which makes it a murder. Though I think I could go with your compromise of "responsible for the death" in the intro if you want to change it to that. And then later down in the article about the actual event, we can put some sourced info about the legalities (lack of) for it. - Gennarous (talk) 19:27, 8 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The order of capital punishment did not mention the mistress of Mussolini, Claretta Petacci, therefore, in this specific case, it may be used the word murder . However, personally I do not share the official version of the execution of Mussolini by Audisio.--Deguef (talk) 10:15, 9 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]