Talk:Victory Forge Military Academy

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Pframp (talk) 03:54, 6 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Update on founder[edit]

Looks like he picked up a boatload of charges: https://apps.osceola.org/Apps/CorrectionsReports/Report/Details/643666 2601:546:C300:C391:25AB:1AE3:1B1A:A310 (talk) 16:53, 11 August 2017 (UTC)Mercury[reply]

Victory Forge[edit]

I was a 2nd Lt at Victory Forge Military Academy when the 2008 DCF investigation took place over is there or is there not abuse at the academy. When the investigation started we had 18 boys age's 12-17 and they all had behavioral issues. One boy is a gang member, another was a piro (likes fire) another threatened to kill his OWN MOTHER if she tried to set ground rules. These boys that came to us are not A honor roll students and about 75% have been in jail or arrested for various crimes from truancy violations up to gang related activites. I will be the first person to stand beside Col. Weierman and the program for the good it does for these young men. In the 18mnts I worked there I saw 4 young men enlist into the US ARMY (it is not required to graduate NOR is it pushed on them to enlist) and are pursing full careers in the US armed forces and I know of one who has been to Afghanistan. All these young have to do when they come to this program is make there beds, do there homework, clean the barracks (chores), fold and put away there laundry, be respectful to the Cadre, visitors, other staff members, residents and more important than all there parents and THEM SELF. If they do all these things then they are rewarded with pass's home, movie nights, extra phone calls home, Rank and the list goes on. More over every night the boys gather around in the living room, sit on the couch with there bibles and have fellow ship with Q&A about the bible and lesson also Church every Sunday. They also learn pride in there country, for the military and the men and women who serve past, present and future US Armed forces. Im a Veteran of the US Army and strongly stand behind Victory Forge Col. Weierman and the other Cadre members. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.53.246.180 (talk • contribs) 23 April 2009

I would think this adds nothing to the topic in question and appears to be in violation of the talk page guidelines. Also, the identity of this individual and the fact he/she worked at VF is unsubstantiated. Pframp (talk) 03:32, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Edit warring[edit]

Clearly, there is a dispute between Telltruthtoday (talk · contribs) and Orlady (talk · contribs) over the facts of this institution. Neither editor appears to be working from a neutral point of view. Perhaps both editors should take a break and allow disinterested parties to review the relevant references to achieve some semblance of neutrality. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 22:38, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

See my comment on your talk page. --Orlady (talk) 03:43, 8 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies for misunderstanding a complex edit history. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 12:57, 8 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Southeastern Military Academy[edit]

Recently Pframp added a hatnote indicating that VFMA had changed its name to Southeastern Military Academy.

I have investigated the situation. I have not yet found any 3rd-party reliably sourced statements confirming this name change, but I believe it to be true. My evidence includes (but is not limited to): (1) the new SEMA website is almost identical (in wording, color schemes, etc.) to an archive of the now-defunct VFMA website, (2) both schools are headed by Colonel Alan Weierman (according to the websites), (3) the SEMA street address is slightly different (638 SW Biltmore Street vs. 602 SW Biltmore Street), but number 638 is the same address that was used for IRS registration of VFMA and images of the street on online map sites show both of those numbers on the same mailbox (which is in front of the residence located at the edge of the school property). All that adds up to "same school, new name." Maybe someone else has found a source that could be cited.

One anonymous IP left an edit summary that said "no connection between southeastern and victory forge. check fl department of corporations two differnet corporations". State corporate registration records don't prove anything (and they aren't good sources for verifying Wikipedia content) -- many entities have multiple corporate registrations.

The hatnote is unorthodox. Ideally, the article lead section would identify the school as having both names, and the article would be moved to Southeastern Military Academy because that is the current name of the institution. Under the circumstances, however, I think the hatnote makes sense for now. --Orlady (talk) 03:43, 8 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Telltruthtoday has pointed us to state of Florida corporate registration data at http://www.sunbiz.org/ to prove that VF has not changed its name. The corporate registration records do indicate that the Victory Forge registration (registered in 2004) is still active. The Southeastern Military Academy name was registered in November 2009, effective January 1, 2010. Alan Weierman is the principal registrant for both entities, and both are located at 638 SW Biltmore Street. In addition, TREASURE COAST VICTORY CHILDREN'S HOME, INC., also registered to Alan Weierman and with a principal location in Massillon, Ohio, but a mailing address of 602 SW Biltmore Street in Port St. Lucie, is still active. Dissolved corporate entities registered to Alan Weierman and using at least one of these addresses include CORNERSTONE CONNECTION OF THE TREASURE COAST, INC. and BRINKHAVEN ENTERPRISES, INC. Weierman was registrant of ROAD TO VICTORY MILITARY MUSEUM, INC. in Stuart, Florida, which is listed as having been dissolved in October 2009.

This documentation does demonstrate that Southeastern is a new corporate entity (not a name change), but registration of a new corporation does not make this a different school. It's the same facility, at the same location, operated by the same people. --Orlady (talk) 16:54, 10 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In addition, if one was to go to Private School one can confirm this as well. Type in Victory Forge Military Academy in the search and one will see Southeastern Military Academy pop up. The costs, the class makeup etc are exactly what Victory Forge had. Moreover, it appears that Victory Forge just went to the private school webiste and updated the name on 1/5/10. Yet if one looks at the pictures on the right side of the page, one will see a link to Victory Forge website which if one clicks will take you to SEMA. Also, there are pictures of Class of 2006 and 2007 - how can this be if the school in new? Evidence is overwhelming that this is not a new school. In addition, we have a parent who will be driving down to this school next month and will confirm to us the details. This parent was very familiar with Victory Forge and made many trips down there. She can then corrobate these facts that the two schools are the exact same thing (even though SEMA is a newly registered corporation).Pframp (talk) 16:33, 17 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently, Victory Forge went to Private Schools and took down the pictures related to Victory Forge on the Southeastern Military Academy link. One can corroborate this by using Archives. In addition, I have saved a PDF of the old website as well. One thing they still have not done is remove picture of the Class of 2006/2007 - how can this be when the school is brand new (started in Nov 2009)?? Pframp (talk) 14:54, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The website has now been updated, but they still have not done a good job concelaing their identity. For example, the contact email is mollyvch@aol.com. This is Molly Weierman the wife of Alan Weierman. In addition, this is the same email that was used by Victory Forge and I have several emails from Mollyvch@aol.com which will prove that this is still Victory Forge and not a new school as they continue to lie about. Pframp (talk) 03:35, 22 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Weierman's credentials[edit]

There appears to be some conflict over Weierman's credentials. Since the only reference to these credentials is a comment on an online newspaper article that claims to be Weierman, I believe the whole section should be removed, as this is absolutely not a reliably sourced statement. Any inclusion or dispute about these credentials flies in the face of BLP policies. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 13:56, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The only conflict has been over whether the article text should contain (1) a verbatim reproduction of the statement on the online newspaper website without quotation marks (what TellTruthToday is trying to present), or (2) a restatement of some of the information there (what I am trying to present). I believe that version 1 is contrary to multiple Wikipedia policies and guidelines, which is why I've inserted version 2.

Although the comment on the newspaper website would not be considered a reliably sourced statement, I don't see this as a WP:BLP problem. The main focus of WP:BLP is on avoiding defamation of living persons, but that is not an issue with this piece of information. To the contrary, this particular item is almost the only positive information about Weimerman in the entire article, since almost all of the reliably sourced content about him is negative. Furthermore, there's no reason to think this isn't Weierman's self-description. He presents other versions of essentially the same information on LinkedIn, Twitter, and the Victory Forge blog (admittedly, none of which are WP:RS sources) and he is identified as "Dr. Alan Weierman" in some school directories. I think it needs to be kept, and ironically I think it is needed because of WP:BLP -- to provide more balanced information than we have been able to find in WP:RS sources. --Orlady (talk) 15:58, 6 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It's really moot whether it's a BLP problem or not. This (1) isn't a reliable source, (2) could have been posted by anyone, and (3) I've heard of PhDs in business, but a Ph.D in "specialized business" is new to me, and pretty vague. So without better sourcing, this should probably go. Hairhorn (talk) 19:03, 23 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Update: his LinkedIn page says he has a PhD in "Buisness Administration, Counseling, Psychology" from Southeastern Louisiana University. Combined PhDs are rare, and this one strikes me as particularly bizarre. Also, Southeastern Louisiana University does not have a doctoral program in psychology, they have an MA program only. The same goes for their Business program; no doctoral level programs, only two Masters level programs. So his credentials look sketchy at best. After some Google searching there appear to be questions about his military record as well. Wikipedia is for well sourced information, not whatever claims someone may or may not have made in the comments section of a newspaper. Hairhorn (talk) 19:15, 23 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that WP:BLP trumps WP:RS here. However, I've posted a notice about this situation -- seeking advice -- at Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard#Victory Forge Military Academy -- trying not to defame the school's owner. --Orlady (talk) 02:38, 24 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]