Talk:Utah Phillips/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Folk Process

I'm also fond of Rosalie Sorrels's "Rock Salt and Nails", and lapped it up when she said on TV, around midnite and around 1971 (looks like that couldn't have been on Austin City Limits as it thot), that "if you want your song folk processed" you should turn it over to UUP the GVotGSW. Don't see how to use that in WP, but just, there it is as a lead for research.
--Jerzy•t 21:10, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Catholic Worker

There's been a minor revert war on adding the Category:Catholic Workers. This information needs to be documented in the article, and be a "defining", not merely incidental or trivial, aspect of Phillips' life for it to meet WP:CAT. I don't see that at this point, so the category should be left off until and unless there is adequate documentation to show that Phillips is a CW and that it is a "defining" part of his life/identity. --Lquilter (talk) 03:21, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

That he was (and is) very much in sympathy with the aims and work of the Catholic Worker movement, I am certain; I have no knowledge that he ever was a part of the movement himself, and highly doubt it. +ILike2BeAnonymous (talk) 07:04, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
He helped start Joe Hill House, a Catholic Worker operation. Pustelnik (talk) 16:03, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
Utah worked there. He didn't found it. Kingturtle (talk) 16:06, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
Read the interview, olywip, by Fast Rattler, added to references, or the Z! Yes! magazine interview. Pustelnik (talk) 16:15, :29, 1 March & 19:18, 25 May, 2008 (UTC)
What aspect of this do they support?
--Jerzy•t 18:51, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
For ""defining", not merely incidental or trivial aspect" directly quoting Utah Phillips, as recorded by Fast Rattler: "That changed my whole world-view, those people who live in voluntary poverty and practice the works of mercy. Wherever I've traveled...I work with the Catholic Worker Movement. I wrote a lot of songs in the Joe Hill House that are a direct result" By the way, the Joe Hill House closed the year Utah left, and one of the first persons he visited when he left Utah for New York City was Dorothy Day. And in the 2005 Yes interview, the first 3 people he identified as his "heroes" are Dorothy Day, Peter Maurin and Ammon Hennacy, all Catholic Workers. You couls argue that Utah and Ammon were not Catholic, but that certainly does not rule you out as a Catholic Worker. It is an anarchist movement, so it does not have membership cards!Pustelnik (talk) 00:16, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Railfan

Utah rode trains, and was not a railfan. to those of us who ride, this characterization would be seen as insulting. I've replaced railfan with trainhopper. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.44.190.97 (talk) 18:50, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Ah, cool - however, there's no article about train hopper. Looks like you've just volunteered there, fellow worker! Cheers, This flag once was redpropagandadeeds 18:56, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
All fixed. The wiki article is Freighthopping; I redirected to it. PhGustaf (talk) 19:44, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

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Utah Carl

R.I.P. "I think our friend Utah has a home beyond the sky." [1] It is interesting that the Wobblie singer Harry McClintock sang a song called "Utah Carl". I am aware that U.U. Phillips is said to have picked his name due to T. Tyler Texas Tyler, but I thought the coincidence was odd. Pustelnik (talk) 19:10, :11, & :26, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Your link is dead. Here's an updated link here. The story gets more interesting when you read this. Utah Carl apparently "borrowed" his name from the song, which he actually had nothing to do with but was sung by his band mates at his funeral in 1977. None of this has anything to do with Utah Phillips however, who clearly chose his name based on where he considered to be home. SentientParadox (talk) 03:53, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Spokane Connections?

I have been playing Utah Phillips bits on YouTube and he frequently talks about Spokane, Washington as his home. Would like more information about his time in my city. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.165.122.157 (talk) 05:19, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

Not really much to be said. It's not like he resided for long in most places. He did for a few years in some. Some more, but most were places he simply "pretended" to be part of (probably because he pretty much considered all of North America to be home). Here's an article that explains his connection to Spokane. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SentientParadox (talk • contribs) 04:19, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

Army, War

The Korean War ended in 1953, if he entered the Army in 1956 he was 3 years too late.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.170.220.40 (talk) 21:43, 20 July 2004

He turned 18 in May 1953, FWIW.
--Jerzy•t 19:04, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Probably means he served in Korea, not in the war. RickK 21:44, Jul 20, 2004 (UTC)

Here's some exact words, in (the transcript of?) a January 2004 interview:
Amy Goodman::
... In 1956, he joined the Army and served in the Korean War, an experience he would later refer to as the turning point of his life....
Goodman::
... War has always seemed to play a major role in defining our times and affected your work, as well. You went to Korea?
Phillips:
Yes, I joined the Army. Like old—as a string fellow said, some people learn things the hard way, but at least then you never forget it. I joined the Army and then got pipelined for Korea. I was there after Panmunjan, you know, after the treaty, right after the treaty there, the truce. Life amid the ruins—I mean, it was absolute life amid the ruins....
I note he didn't correct her abt 1956, but implicitly does abt "served in the Korean War", which contradicts '56, but it's hard to square '56 and "right after the [armistice]".
(He continues on this topic in some detail, worth reading.)
(BTW, his cryptic, or cryptically rendered, remark
Like old—as a string fellow said, some people...
caught my attention, and whatever "string fellow" may mean, another interview has
Ammon told me, 'Some people learn things the hard way and you're one of them.' I've never forgotten it.
It was Ammon Hennacy who wrote "Joe Hill" and other songs, so perhaps he preferred, in this context, to refer to "old Ammon Hennacy" as just a generic fellow string player.)
--Jerzy•t 20:59, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

I changed the category to US army soldiers. How to you define the end of the Korean War, when a formal peace treaty was not signed? Pustelnik (talk) 18:46, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm gonna just jump in here and say that most of this about what Utah actually said in these interviews is a bit, well, questionable to me. First, the wording "Like old — as a string fellow said..." is from a transcript, the original page of which all others on the web are derived says clearly, "This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form." There is also a link on the page that leads directly to the actual recording the transcript comes from. If you watch that part of the video it seems clear to me that portion is not transcribed accurately by any stretch of the imagination. Add to that the other interview mentioned above in which Utah stated, "Ammon told me, 'Some people learn things the hard way and you're one of them.'" Now, if you look at who this "Ammon" is (Ammon Hennacy) you'll find that he was not a musician, nor a lyricist but was some kind of preacher Utah held in high regard and considered to be a mentor. It doesn't make sense that Utah would refer to Ammon as "a string fellow." I've been around many musicians for a lot of my life and known only one to ever use anything similar to "string fellow" in any context, and that was as a username on a forum as "Stringfellow" taken from the TV show Airwolf (Stringfellow Hawk). Having listened carefully at varied speeds to the interview in which Utah uttered these words, I've come to the conclusion that what he actually said was, "Like old - There's a thing a fellow says, 'Some people learn the hard way. But at least then you never forget it.'" Now I don't know if I've heard that clearly word for word, but I can say it makes a lot more sense than what the transcript (the transcript we are told is not necessarily accurate) says. It's as if Utah took what Ammon originally told him and turned it into his own mantra. Search Google for it. You won't find ANYTHING other than this page right here and other pages quoting Utah.

The bottom line is that the quote isn't really article worthy except possibly for the final part of it. "Some people learn the hard way. But at least then you never forget it." It seems clear there is no evidence that anyone else ever said it before he did. That part of the quote is clear and can be used because it can also be cited and verified. The first portion cannot since the source itself says it's not reliable and you can't tell from the video.

Now, as far as the Korean War issues, that's a no-brainer. The Korean War isn't over even today. It's never been declared over. The question really is whether he ever saw combat and he says he never did. He did say he got there "right after" the armistice. Armistice is not a Peace Treaty, which was never arrived at in Korea. It is simply "An armistice is a formal agreement of warring parties to stop fighting. It is not necessarily the end of a war," (straight from Wikipedia's own article on Armistice). So the "Korean War" had not officially ended by the time he got there, so that isn't an argument. Finally, whether he got there "right after" the armistice is a matter of perspective. I'm betting that those of you who think that 1956 is not "right after" 1953 are fairly young in comparison to Utah at the time of that interview. When you pass the age of 50 time accelerates and looking back, things that happened within a mere 3 years of each other are within the same time frame. I get things mixed up as to what happened first when I'm thinking of my late teens and early twenties. It all may as well be within the same year from where I sit now. So there's my two cents. SentientParadox (talk) 03:27, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

BTW, I can't say for certain, but when I listened to that interview I got the impression that, maybe, just maybe, the two of them might have had a few nips beforehand. I swear I can hear it in their speech. SentientParadox (talk) 03:32, 30 April 2018 (UTC)

I haven't reviewed the sources carefully, but talking about Ammon Hennacy made me think of William Stringfellow, who had some similar views. However, a quick search didn't reveal any likely connection to Phillips. However, I did stumble across Rosalie Ann Stringfellow, who was a good friend of Philips. Just a possibility. Daask (talk) 17:01, 16 May 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation page draft

Hello, I created a disambiguation page for "Loafer's Glory" which links to this page, as well as a location by that name in North Carolina. I'd appreciate it if an editor with sufficient privileges would review it: Draft:Loafer's Glory. Thanks, 212.102.53.84 (talk) 21:24, 4 December 2020 (UTC)

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