Talk:Toilet/Archive 2

Major re-structuring and too much detail for flush toilet?

I have just done a major re-structuring as the article had an over-emphasis on sitting flush toilets, even though toilets come in all forms, shapes and sizes when you take a global view. I think it is more balanced now. I would like to propose that the content for flush toilets and trimmed down further and rather moved to the article on flush toilets (if it's not there already). Otherwise this page has too much emphasis on one particular type of toilet; it should rather keep the description brief and anything else can be found on the page of flush toilets. The same applies to the history section which also has a lot of content on the flush toilet which is probably better covered on the article for flush toilets (and trimmed down here). What do others think about this proposal? EvM-Susana (talk) 22:33, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Sounds eminently reasonable; you've been commendably conscientious about moving material and refs to more appropriate articles. I agree that the article here should have a more global perspective, and the detailed info and history of flush toilets belongs in the subsidiary article. This will keep the main article here more manageable in size, and avoid excessive duplication of content. Reify-tech (talk) 14:45, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the vote of confidence, (talk). :-) I have done the moving now. Turns out that the history section on the toilet page (about flush toilets) and the history section on the flush toilet page where nearly 1:1 identical. So someone had done a copy & paste job in the past. I hope everything looks good now. There might be a bit of repetition on the flush toilet page now (for the first third of the article), will need to be improved further.EvM-Susana (talk) 10:42, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Thomas Crapper

The introduction states that Thomas Crapper invented the flush toilet, but the main page for Thomas Crapper clearly states, "Contrary to widespread misconceptions, Crapper did not invent the flush toilet." Which is correct? 66.194.175.77 (talk) 07:12, 10 November 2014 (UTC)pigi5

this has now been corrected in the lead, hasn't it? I actually wonder if we need to have it in the lead at all as it gives too much weight to the history of flush toilets. EvM-Susana (talk) 22:33, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Flush toilets are the primary subtopic here, but Thomas Crapper himself is not actually notable enough for mention in the lead. He should be discussed in the history section, though. — LlywelynII 06:56, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Random suggestion

Modern Toilet Restaurant. [Unsigned]

What's the suggestion? — LlywelynII 06:57, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Alt names

This page will probably need periodic cleanup, but the name discussion here should refer to names for toilet fixtures. Alt names for the rooms ("WC", "lav", "CR", &c.) belong in the subsections at outhouse or toilet (room), although those should be linked from here. — LlywelynII 06:59, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

What are the underscores for (in Wikilinks)?

Did someone purposefully add underscores in Wikilinks, like Squat_toilet instead of Squat toilet? I think they should be removed.

They are unnecessary, and are even removed automatically by some editing tools. They add visual noise without adding any useful information, and should be removed. Reify-tech (talk) 04:28, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

seems like someone has deleted them now, thank you. EvMsmile (talk) 10:09, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Merging outhouse and dunny?

Another suggestion by User:JoshMuirWikipedia was: "I plan on merging dunny and outhouse in the future, as a dunny is an Australian word for outhouse. I am considering merging outhouse with toilet (room), because that is what an outhouse is." I think merging dunny and outhouse could make sense (I had in the past said that dunny equals pit latrine; that's actually not really true, I've discussed this further here with User:Carbon Caryatid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Sanitation#About_the_term_dunny

Merging outhouse and dunny is good, I think - unless the article on "dunny" is clearly structured to be talking about what's specific about this for Australia (and NZ?), e.g. in poems or songs or similar. EvMsmile (talk) 10:21, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Merge "outhouse" and "dunny", since they're nearly synonymous. But don't then dump them into "Toilet (room)"; it's already too crowded in there! Reify-tech (talk) 12:36, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

I've added to dunny recently (among several toilet-related articles), and discovered some interesting things in the process. No objections to merging it to outhouse, as long as it remains clear that "a toilet outside the house" does not automatically mean a pit latrine (aka long-drop). Carbon Caryatid (talk) 13:50, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

I agree that this is the right level of consolidation. A hatnote or a brief note in the intro might be appropriate in the article. Reify-tech (talk) 14:17, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Merge latrine and aphedron

While everyone is here and on the topic of merging toilet related articles - quickly would it be wise to merge latrine with aphedron? JoshMuirWikipedia (talk) 11:36, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Yes, that's a good suggestion to move the content of aphedron to latrine and to place a re-direct. I don't even know why aphedron would merit its own article page (but make sure you also put it on the talk page there in case there are people closely watching that page). I once did a bit of work on the latrine article; I felt that it should mainly contain "historical" aspects - i.e. let's not build it up further so that it would overlap substantially with toilet or with pit latrine. EvMsmile (talk) 04:00, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Toilet twinning

Would it be possible to mention the toilet twinning initiative?

This is ground breaking and making a global impact and definitely worth a mention if it can fit in under Role of sanitation? or a section at the end? And I'm not involved in it, I just think it sounds like something that should be on Wikipedia as an example of twinning in the modern age.

They have a website at: http://www.toilettwinning.org/

Thanks,

Rossignol, Cardiff

I've added our article on Toilet Twinning to the Toilet template. Not sure that it needs inclusion in this article. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 19:11, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Major Changes

Hello All, You may have noticed I have made some major changes to this article. If you haven't, I have added sources where sources are asked (except for instance of toilet name on yacht, could not find a source for that). I have combined the sections for etymology, euphemisms and regional dialects into one section: name. I have removed the whole section previously called 'Related Sanitary Ware', and put the listed things into the see also, a section I have now formatted. I have changed the Society and Culture section to be called usage after placing sections referring to mythology, museums, and humour into the see also section, leaving urination and anal cleansing. You can see the old revision here

The article's initial shortening.

1. The ridiculous situation concerning names. This needs, and has the content for an article itself. After this article is written, this page should provide a short summary of the other page.

2. The types section: flush toilets. The sections 'on watercraft' and 'pour-flush' do not have enough content for their own sections, and they should be merged with 'typical (with cistern)' to make one paragraph. Not only this, but I imagine the section could be written clearer (I imagine because it is 10:00 at night and I am not at my peak). This could be done by any plumber. The question 'where' posed in the sentence 'However, in some countries, this treatment does not happen. A starting point is Dubai, as I remember something about their system being something about trucks.

3. The types section: dry toilets. There is something I cannot lay my finger on about this that feels wrong, but not helping is the image of a bucket toilet and portable toilets sandwiching the text.

4. The section on public toilets I believe should be removed completely, as this article is about the object itself and not the room: that is a different Wikipedia page. If the section is not removed, it should at least have a lot of information culled and merged into the types of toilets. The Wiki page on ovens does not talk about the kitchen at length.

5. The section 'Role of toilets and sanitation for public health' could be shortened to be called 'Toilets and sanitation in public health', 'Role in public health', or even 'public health'.

6. A quarter of the Ancient civilizations section is quote and can be paraphrased easily. I have not fully read through the History section and hence will not comment on it yet.

The lengthening afterwards.

1. Squat toilets can be elaborated on, through things such as health benefits, mentality, and types, such as the Anglo-Indian.

2. The currently known as 'Role of toilets and sanitation for public health' can also be expanded on, as some information can be added. For instance: information on World Toilet Day. I collect toilet facts. Here are my ones regarding health. These lack sources as of yet. Sorry about that. Diarrhoea is the second biggest killer of children under five worldwide. The number of children who have died from diarrhoea in the from 1998-2008 exceeded the number of people killed by armed conflicted since WW2. More children die of diarrhoea than how many die of HIV, malaria and measles combined. 80% of the world's illness is caused through contamination by faecal matter Lack of good toilets and sanitation kills about 1.8 million people a year. The more time you spend in the bathroom, specifically reading, the more likely you are to develop haemorrhoids, or swollen blood vessels in & around the anus. In 2012, 2.3 million toilets in the US were recalled due to their potential of exploding. 7.443 million sick days are taken by kids every year due to wash-related diseases. At least 1.8 billion people use a drinking water source contaminated with faeces around the world. The are more televisions than toilets in Afghanistan. More people in the world have mobiles than toilets. More than half of primary schools in developing countries don't have access to clean water or sanitation. Without toilets, girls often drop out of school at puberty. Many females are sexually assaulted or bitten by snakes or spiders when they defecate in the open due to a lack of a toilet. Half of India's population practices open defecation. A lack of toilets in India costs the country 50 billion a year. In 46 countries, at least half of the population don't have access to proper sanitation. 1 billion people defecate in the open due to a lack of access to toilets. Every $1 invested into sanitation has a $5 return.

This section should also have things about how society perceives toilets as germy.

Another thing to mention is the drugs being urinated into toilets. (bit vague, will clarify later)

3. I removed the culture section from this article as it needs to start fresh, as their was not enough information in the sections. Here are some sections I propose we include. We should not include them all and should merge some, so please comment. Bold are my recommendations due to lots of content.

Animal Toilets (a bit trivial, but there are equivalents)

Artwork in Toilets

Space Toilets

Toilet Awards

Toilet Museums

Toilet Restaurants

Toilet Theme Parks

Please comment thoughts - I am bringing them to the talk page to see if people agree these changes which I think should be made, should be made.

JoshMuirWikipedia (talk) 14:33, 17 July 2016 (UTC)

Hi, User:JoshMuirWikipedia thanks for this. I agree this article needed some major work so it's good that you've made a start! However, I mainly see this article as an entry point or overview article about all the other articles on sub-topics that already exist. For this reason, I would not expand the information on squat toilets for example, as more information is available in that separate article. The same applies to the public health content. Rather than building that up here, the link should be clearly made to the article on sanitation where all the public health stuff is located (could be expanded there).

I agree with your thoughts on public toilet and have shortened it. It could be deleted totally but perhaps this shortened piece is a good compromise?

I didn't understand what your issue was with the section on dry toilet?

About the name issue, we have also a lot of information on that in the article toilet (room). How do we prevent duplication of effort and content on those two pages? I am not so sure if we really need to have an article on toilet (room) - perhaps the two should be merged?

These are just my quick reactions, will take another look later. EvMsmile (talk) 05:13, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Hey EvMsmile. I agree with everything you say. In regards to the name issue, I think I will create a page called toilet (name) which outlines the etymology, euphemisms, regional dialects of toilet fixture and room. I plan on merging dunny and outhouse in the future, as a dunny is an Australian word for outhouse. I am considering merging outhouse with toilet (room), because that is what an outhouse is. However, I will probably not do that as it is notable enough for its own article. This could have solved part of the spread of repeats of information in names but maybe not. What do you think about the creation of the page toilet (name)?

PS - my issue with the dry toilet section was it was not coherently written, although I think I was being very harsh. JoshMuirWikipedia (talk) 05:56, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

The more eyes on this article, the better. I don't have time now to respond to all the welcome bold changes, but I'd like to flag up two issues. The minor one first: MOS:HEADCAPS requires all section titles to be written with sentence capitalisation, e.g. "Dry toilet" not "Dry Toilet". More substantively, WP:PRESERVE says to tackle material that is poorly presented by improving it, not deleting it (which is of course what most of this large revision has done). "As long as any facts or ideas would belong in an encyclopedia, they should be retained in Wikipedia." I notice that some material seems to have disappeared, and I'd prefer to discuss that here, by copying in the cut sentences. Perhaps JoshMuirWikipedia could move those "lost" sentences to this talkpage? Or if not, I might when I have a solid chunk of time. This is an important article, so the more interested editors, the better. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 15:08, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

This article should be viewed as primarily an overview and orientation writeup, with short summaries of major topics, and pointers to more-detailed subsidiary articles. As a general rule, valid information should not just be completely deleted just because somebody thinks it does not fit in here; instead, it should be moved or merged to a section or an article where it fits better. The lengthier specialized material here should be moved to a subsidiary article, creating one if necessary. The article as it stands is indeed a bit of a hodge-podge, and many of the miscellaneous bits should be moved to other articles, leaving only summaries and pointers here. Reify-tech (talk) 04:28, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

I completely agree with Reify. This article should provide a good clear overview, not technical, nor limited to one part of the world. It is listed as a vital article, but currently falls far short of what it should be, so it's great that it's getting some focussed attention. I want to ensure that it keeps as many pointers as possible, brief mentions of all sorts of toilets and things related to toilets, with links to our articles as appropriate. JoshMuir, you've been bold with so many changes, many of them which I agree with, that it's slightly tricky to know how to respond without losing the thread of the conversation. I may have to start separate sections below. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 19:36, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Merge toilet plume

I suggest that toilet plume be merged here, and added a template to that article. Brianga (talk) 13:35, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

I disagree Brianga, the topic toilet plume I think could be expanded. If it was to be merged with something, it should be merged with flush toilet, and not just toilet itself. JoshMuirWikipedia (talk) 23:11, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

I had never heard of "toilet plume" before (and I deal a lot with toilet topics). I don't think it needs its own article and suggest that the content is merged into flush toilet, like User:JoshMuirWikipedia said. EvMsmile (talk) 03:56, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Point taken. I'll adjust my merge suggestion. Brianga (talk) 13:28, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

I have heard of the concept, given as a reason for separating the room for ablution from the room for excretion. IIRC the context was the shock and distaste expressed by educated non-Westerners at the thought of aeresolised fecal particles anywhere near the family toothbrushes. (Sorry, no source, just imperfect reading memory.) So I'd rather that material and sources are added. If it has to be merged, it deserves a proper section. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 19:52, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Information Removed

Per request of Carbon Caryatid, here is the information I removed.

Thank you. I will tweak the sections, titles, and indentations below, to enable clearer responses. (These may not reflect exactly what was in the article.) Carbon Caryatid (talk) 20:18, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Outhouse

Toilets built outside the dwelling usually have a shelter for privacy; there are many names for this "privy", see outhouse.

Deleted this and put outhouse in see also.

Disagree. The outhouse is such a widespread phenomenon, part of the daily life of a large chunk of the world's population, that it deserves mention in the article, possibly in the lead. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 20:24, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

On watercraft

Toilets on ships are typically flushed with seawater.

Tricky. That article (Head (watercraft)) is brief, and doesn't include the C20 norm of seated enclosed toilets simply opening to the water underneath, like the hopper toilets on trains of the same period. I understand the desire to avoid sections of only one sentence. Possibly the Toilet article needs a section for "Other types", where several of these brief mentions could be consolidated, but with more context than "See also" or the template can provide. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 20:29, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Pour-flush

A flush toilet can be installed without a cistern, and flushed manually with a few liters of water in a small bucket. This is a pour-flush toilet. This type of low-cost toilet is common in many Asian countries. It can use as little as 2-3 litres, and this can be greywater or rainwater.

Merged this into Flush toilets section

Agree, until we have a separate article to point this towards. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 20:30, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Urinals

Main article: Urinal

Urinals, as the name indicates, are intended for urination only, not for defecation. Urinals are designed for male users in a standing position; some designs exist for females. They typically have no door or stall enclosure, and thus take up less space. These fixtures are most commonly found in public places. Urinals are usually water flushed, although waterless urinals are becoming more popular.

• 
  Victorian public urinals
• 
  A single urinal, with a bright pink urinal cake
• 
  A stainless steel trough-style urinal
• 
  Dutch retractable street urinal, in The Hague
• 
  Urinals in men's room at Oslo Opera house

Bidets

Main article: Bidet

A bidet is a plumbing fixture intended for washing the genitalia, inner buttocks, and anus.

Sinks

Main article: Sink

Near to the toilet is usually a small sink (basin) for hand washing.

Removed All this and put bidet, sink and urinal in the see also section.

I suggest retaining the section "Related sanitary ware" but amalgamating the subsections into one paragraph, easier to read and without annoying "main article" links. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 20:32, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Museums

Sulabh International Museum of Toilets in Delhi, India, is dedicated to the global history of sanitation and toilets. It was established in 1992 by Dr. Bindeshwar Pathak, a social activist, founder of Sulabh International, recipient of national and international awards including the Stockholm Water Prize in 2009. The museum highlights the need to address the problems of the sanitation sector in India.

Mythology

Various cultures have deities of the toilet. Korean mythology includes Cheuksin, a malevolent goddess.

Toilet humour

Toilet humour is a name given to a type of off-colour humour dealing with defecation, urination, and flatulence.

These were removed and put into the see also section.

A similar suggestion: that museums, mythology, and humour be amalgamated into a section on culture. I do think that all these concepts need to be explained in prose to the casual reader, not pushed into a long list of "See also". Carbon Caryatid (talk) 20:34, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

---

JoshMuirWikipedia (talk) 02:03, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

Translation error

Greetings,

I have noticed that in the "etymology" section of the article, the French origin that is mentioned is spelled incorrectly. Indeed, it is said that "loo" might originate from French "gardez l'eau", which is supposed to be "mind the water" in English. It's actually "gare à l'eau" that means "mind the water". "Gardez l'eau" means "keep the water".

I don't want to make an accound and can't edit the article without. Could anyone fix this?

Thanks for your time.

- A french person

82.127.174.102 (talk) 10:05, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

• Done. Thank you for your help. Bishonen | talk 11:01, 19 August 2016 (UTC).

Creating a new article on "toilet (name)"?

I have moved here the suggestion of User:JoshMuirWikipedia so that it doesn't get lost in the other comments: "In regards to the name issue, I think I will create a page called toilet (name) which outlines the etymology, euphemisms, regional dialects of toilet fixture and room." - My response: I think that's in principle a good idea, as it would avoid having the same/similar information spread on three different articles. Currently it's at toilet, toilet (room) and outhouse. However, I am not sure if "toilet (name)" is the best name for such a new article? Is there a precedence for this? Perhaps "toilet (terms used)"? Or "toilet (name variations)" or something like that? EvMsmile (talk) 10:12, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

I'm not so sure that this particular consolidation is needed, but if it must be done, perhaps "Toilet (cultural aspects)" would fit. Reify-tech (talk) 12:41, 19 July 2016 (UTC)

How about List of names and euphemisms for the toilet? It fits the established pattern of titles for list articles. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 10:22, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. JoshMuirWikipedia (talk) 23:14, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Interesting suggestion although will it really be a "list" type article? At the moment, the content is not written as list style, although that could be changed (perhaps even be made into a table). I would drop the "the" though, so just: "List of names and euphemisms for toilet" EvMsmile (talk) 03:54, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

I think it would be better if we didn't have a table format. I'm saying this because I feel in cases such as loo, with various etymologies (about 5/6) it would look much better in sub sections. JoshMuirWikipedia (talk) 22:52, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

does it then still conform with a "list type" article? EvMsmile (talk) 10:22, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Better not as a list, but in good flowing prose, with some historical order, and sections for e.g. national variants. I have just seen Bathroom, and it too repeats and confuses information here. I don't object to the title Toilet (name), unless something better can be found. You may wish to look at Category:English words; I've worked on a few of them recently, but not on Shit, which might be apposite. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 20:03, 23 July 2016 (UTC)

Hey guys, I thought I could get this done, but I have been really busy lately, and am likely to continue to be really busy, as I am in year 10. I considered scraping together an article and chucking it up, but then I thought that you guys could do it and probably have more time, and if it was up, I could edit it. I would like to learn to use the thing where you have like a sandbox, but due to my business, I have not been able to learn about it. So, I am pinging - Carbon Caryatid and EvMsmile. JoshMuirWikipedia (talk) 11:48, 18 August 2016 (UTC)

Hi, User:JoshMuirWikipedia, thanks for letting us know. I wish there were more Year 10 students like you! :-) I will start the process by putting up a notice at the article toilet (room) because that one would be merged into the new article in that case. Let's see if anyone objects. EvMsmile (talk) 11:41, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

We've continued this discussion on the talk page of toilet (room). The new proposal on that talk page is to call it "Toilet (word)". Please head over there to discuss this further. EvMsmile (talk) 02:10, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Careful choice of photos in the lead

It is important to carefully select the right toilet photos for the lead. A year or so ago, the lead image was that of a sitting flush toilet. I then changed it to a collage of two photos: one flush toilet, one dry toilet from Africa. I think it is really important to represent that toilets can be totally different all over the world. Wikipedia is usually biased towards the situation in North America (=sitting flush toilets) but the reality worldwide is different. Another editor changed it on 31 March 2016 to 4 photos but the photos were arranged vertically which gave the impression that the sitting flush toilet is at the top of the ladder and therefore the best and most common. I have changed it now to three photos and arranged them vertically to ensure they all have even weight. It would be good to have a photo for sitting flush toilet that is portrait not landscape so that we can arrange it better (but I haven't found one yet). - Happy to discuss this further. EvMsmile (talk) 02:52, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

History of Sitting Toilets

I wasn't able to check the source, but the sentence "But sitting toilets only came into general use in the mid-19th century in the Western world" seems pretty questionable to me, especially considering the pictures of gaderobes talk about "seats". I also have a source "The Archaeology of Sanitation in Roman Italy: Toilets, Sewers, and Water Systems" saying, "the design of toilets (fig. 94) tells us that Roman clients preferred to sit down, probably both for urination and defecation" (see https://books.google.com/books?id=X_3PBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA84&lpg=PA84&dq=%22that+Roman+clients+preferred+to+sit+down%22&source=bl&ots=CIdo5EsvCz&sig=mK-jbdLHIsgJEtuvCqCaee9E228&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjU16qav-rOAhWILMAKHfD1AwgQ6AEIHjAA#v=onepage&q=%22that%20Roman%20clients%20preferred%20to%20sit%20down%22&f=false) Kevin Corbett (talk) 01:24, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Is that sentence perhaps referring to sitting flush toilets? Or maybe the sitting toilets were only for the wealthier segments of society and everyone else was squatting? Let's clarify this, using appropriate references. EvMsmile (talk) 03:52, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

I've been studying this issue for the past 15 years. There are no good sources, just a bunch of conjectures. This link http://www.naturesplatform.com/health_benefits.html#antiquity debunks the widely-held myth about Roman toilets. It's not a source that wikipedia would accept, but it is quite compelling.Jonathan108 (talk) 16:51, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Hmmm. I have deleted that sentence in question now because it was poorly referenced. The same reference was actually used in the website that you linked to: A History of Technology, Vol.IV: The Industrial Revolution, 1750-1850. (C. Singer, E Holmyard, A Hall, T. Williams eds) Oxford Clarendon Press, pps. 507-508, 1958 Maybe someone else knows about more precise references; or perhaps we'll never find out exactly who sat and who squatted on their toilets. EvMsmile (talk) 10:14, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 January 2017

Hi their I am an proffessinal plumber from the university of macenzie, I'm cool and now my stuff about toilets Xceric38 (talk) 00:26, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Not done: Not a valid request. No details of desired edit. Possible 'test' by new account. Eagleash (talk) 00:38, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Is "comfort room" used in Indian English?

I had the feeling it was used, but I'm not Indian so it's just a guess. Can someone confirm either way, please? Spacecowboy420 (talk) 08:55, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 March 2017

Please change: Mohenjo-Daro circa 2800 BC > to > Mohenjo-Daro circa 2600 BC, (because the founding of the city is 2600-2500 BCE and no evidence of toilets before this date)

Please change: Around the 18th century BC, toilets started to appear in Minoan Crete, Pharaonic Egypt, and ancient Persia. > to > "They also appear in Knossos and Akrotiri of the ancient Minoan civilization from the 2nd millennium BC.[31][32]". (Because Minoan palaces where build around 2000 BCE onwards) Daruman (talk) 08:31, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

 Not done, please provide reliable sources for the proposed changes. ~ GB fan 13:17, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 August 2017

One side of the U channel is arranged as a siphon tube longer than the water in the bowl is high.

-->

One side of the U channel is arranged as a siphon tube longer than the water in the bowl is high. Cyrilauburtin (talk) 17:53, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Not done: We do not link siphon per WP:OLINK. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 18:11, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Restructuring in September 2017

I have just done a restructing effort as I felt the part about the types of toilets was too confusing and messy. To put a "flying toilet" (=plastic bag) on the same level as a flush toilet really made no sense. So those "toilets" that are very specific to some developing countries situations, I have now moved further down into a separate section. Hoping others will like how I have restructured it. EMsmile (talk) 22:35, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

follow-up request on 17 January 2019: Semi-protected edit request on 24 September 2018

In the introduction is the sentence "Globally, nearly one billion people even have no access to a toilet at all..." Could you remove "even?" It doesn't quite fit, and "at all" gets the point across quite well. 208.95.51.53 (talk) 15:42, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

 Done Thank you for your attention to detail! Dolotta (talk) 17:56, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

The numbers are not correct. Nearly a third of the world population (2.3 billion people, 32%) have no access to a toilet or latrine according to WHO data from February 2018. Please change the article, due to the fact that this is another big disgrace to humanity alongside poverty and hunger causing death and disease of tens of thousands of humans (mostly children). WHO citations: "2.3 billion people still do not have basic sanitation facilities such as toilets or latrines." "Of these, 892 million still defecate in the open, for example in street gutters, behind bushes or into open bodies of water." "Hygienic sanitation facilities are crucial for public health. Since 1990, the number of people gaining access to improved sanitation has risen from 54% to 68% but some 2.3 billion people still do not have toilets or improved latrines." --5.146.195.228 (talk) 14:24, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 17 January 2019

In the source code of the main article arround lines 122/123 is an emty paragraph
<p><span id="Etymology"></span><span id="Terminology"></span></p>
which needs to be removed, because it messes up the internal link to TOC 10.1 Etymology. --5.146.195.228 (talk) 15:06, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

 Done – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:52, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

Question about a reference that was deleted

Moved from User talk:Headbomb#Question about article on Toilets.

I think it might have been me who added a reference that you have now removed due to it being from a predatory journal. Are you sure this reference is not permissible?: Is there no way around it but to delete it? (I am new to this issue) EMsmile (talk) 14:12, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

References

@EMsmile:The question here is why would you want to cite a source which is known to be unreliable. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 17:35, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

Firstly, it was not known to me that the source is unreliable. How was I meant to know? I guess there are some blacklists of predatory journals somewhere and this journal falls under it? Secondly, I would maintain that the source is more reliable than not having a citation at all ("citation needed" does not really help much in this case). The statement that was made is not one regarding medical or health but "only" toilets, so I would argue that this reference is sufficient for this purpose. - I'll copy this exchange to the talk page of toilet and we can continue there. I am not trying to be difficult. It is just that many of those general statements about toilets and behaviours are very hard to come by in the academic literature. If we found a reference that seems to work and then be told it needs to be deleted is disappointing. Perhaps a better solution can be found? EMsmile (talk) 14:31, 26 December 2019 (UTC)

@EMsmile: "How was I meant to know?" I'm not "blaming" you for not knowing, but an inappropriate source is still inappropriate. If the claims of the article cannot be sourced to a reliable source, then they should be removed from the article. WP:Verifiability, not truth and all that. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 14:34, 26 December 2019 (UTC)

I appreciate that you are not blaming me but I would still like to know for future cases so I am not caught off-guard again. So how do I know? Are you using a bot to find them in articles? Secondly, are they completely forbidden on Wikipedia? I would assume they are still OK for statements of general nature (i.e. not statements regarding medicine and health which has higher, stricter criteria). I mean they are likely to better than a newspaper article or a website which is often used as a references as well. Thirdly, take a look at the sentence where the reference was used: "These euphemistic practices appear to have become pronounced following the emergence of European colonial practices, which frequently denigrated colonial subjects in Africa, Asia and South America as 'unclean'". Two references are used for this sentence, one without a URL and one with that journal article. The one without the URL is difficult to verify (I haven't yet tried to find a URL for it), so I'd rather have the one with the URL and journal article... I can also check with the author what her opinion about that predatory journal is and whether she published the same elsewhere. Please tell me which list you are using to determine whether something is a predatory journal? EMsmile (talk) 14:43, 26 December 2019 (UTC)

@EMsmile: Several (although not all) sources (list) have recently been added to edit filter 891, which should warn against many such citations. Failing that, you can also see WP:CITEWATCH (a Signpost article explains what this is) and User:JzG/Predatory. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 14:53, 26 December 2019 (UTC)

@Headbomb if you have time, could you please also answer my other questions (see the section just above, after "secondly"...). Thanks so much. EMsmile (talk) 13:54, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

(EC) Again, the question here is why would you want to cite a source which is known to be unreliable. These sources are sometimes allowed, but only for stuff that falls in the realm of WP:ABOUTSELF. As for how I (or anyone else) knows how Juniper is predatory, you can look up "Juniper predatory publisher" on google. They lie about having impact factors and make up fake ones, they advertise the fact that they are indexed by fake/spam indices like Index Copernicus. And they are covered in both Beall's list and Cabell's blacklist. They even accept Scigen papers [1]! Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 13:55, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

For the simple reason that I don't know of a better source to cite. Information on toilet habits is very hard to come by in the academic literature! I am going to write to the author in question (Alison Moore). She might find it quite upsetting that her paper is called "a source that is known to be unreliable". I bet she has no idea. Maybe we are lucky and she has published in another journal as well which is not blacklisted. EMsmile (talk) 13:58, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Then see WP:Verifiability, not truth. The personal feelings of Alison Moore on the matter are irrelevant. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 14:00, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

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• Defecating into a pit (schematic).jpg

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Semi-protected edit request on 28 September 2020

Citation needed for line 1: "In other words: 'Toilets are sanitation facilities at the user interface that allow the safe and convenient urination and defecation'.[1]", as quotation cannot be found at source. The second instance of "the" is also extraneous, so if the mistake is present at the source, [sic] should be added, and if not, the instance of "the" should be removed. 47.12.18.253 (talk) 20:32, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Removed entire quote as it's redundant. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (Say hi!) 03:10, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 March 2021

i like mario Bazzatoilet18 (talk) 17:20, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

@Bazzatoilet18: Welcome to Wikipedia. Please use WP:SANDBOX to experiment with editing. RudolfRed (talk) 17:30, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Replaced text with excerpts

I have used the excerpt function for quite a few of the sections that really just refer to relevant sub-articles. I intend to continue with this over the next few days, e.g. for the section on flush toilets (which is actually taking up too much room compared to the other toilet types). This is just an overview article so having excerpts is very useful because the same information doesn't have to be maintained and updated in two locations. EMsmile (talk) 01:43, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Had to write this for class, remove when needed.

I've evaluated the article and found no inconsistencies with the source material.Jedmonds123 (talk) 00:50, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Video

It had been raining heavily in the previous 1 to 2 hours before this video was taken.

Is something unusual happening with the water in the bowel of this outdoor toilet?

Xyxyzyz (talk) 00:10, 18 March 2022 (UTC)