Talk:Tiptoe Through the Tulips

"Tip-Toe Thru' the Tulips with Me"
"Tip-Toe Thru' the Tulips with Me"
Single by Tiny Tim
from the album God Bless Tiny Tim
B-side	"Fill Your Heart"
Released	April 1968
Recorded	1968
Genre	Novelty, folk rock
Length	1:48
Label	Reprise
Songwriter(s)	Al Dubin, Joe Burke
Producer(s)	Richard Perry
Tiny Tim singles chronology
Official audio
	"Tip Toe Thru' The Tulips With Me " on YouTube

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opening paragraph subjective[edit]

The opening paragraph states the song was written by Tiny Tim

but if the song was originally released by someone else in 1929 then i wouldn't exactly call this an accurate statement since Tiny Tim was born in 1932 and probably didn't write the song i suggest this part is at least re-worded,

Tony Spike (talk) 22:08, 13 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 2 April 2017[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus defaulting to keeping the current stable title. Relisting is unlikely to achieve a clearer consensus at this time because there has been relatively substantial discussion here regarding the tension between COMMONNAME and using the original title. The participants have been unable to come to a consensus on that point, with some of those supporting the move agreeing that the shorter name is more common but that it should still be at the longer title. Based on the discussion and the weight of COMMONNAME as a policy, I cannot find a clear consensus at this time. (non-admin closure) TonyBallioni (talk) 22:33, 9 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Tiptoe Through the Tulips → Tip Toe Through the Tulips with Me – The original 1929 song written by Al Dubin and Joe Burke for the musical film "Gold Diggers of 1929" is "Tip Toe Through The Tulips With Me" as can be seen in the original sheet music here: [1]. Also, under the complete song lyrics of Al Dubin in the book: "Lullaby of Broadway: Life and Times of Al Dubin - One of America's Great Lyricists" by Patricia Dubin, Citadel Press, isbn=0-8065-0871-X, the title is listed as: "Tip Toe Through the Tulips With Me". In addition, the first hit single by Nick Lucas (see article) for Brunswick Records titles the song as such: [2]. Maineartists (talk) 02:21, 2 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ex. George Gershwin's classic song Love is Here to Stay is more commonly known today as "Our Love is Here to Stay". Regardless of this fact, the correct procedure is to remain true to what is correct, as WP has done here: Love Is Here to Stay with a redirect. Maineartists (talk) 14:13, 2 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support in favor of using real names and the initial popularization of the song. But "Tiptoe Through the Tulips" may be, without quoting evidence, the common name, which was popularized by the singer Tiny Tim as well as by common-use repetition. I'll revisit this to see if anyone has strong objections and stats. Thanks for nominating this. Randy Kryn 14:14, 2 April 2017 (UTC
Conditional oppose if the current title has been a lot more common that the original for a long time, maybe 30 years. I can't be bothered to check but if someone does and they find evidence then {{ping}} me. Wikipedia:Article_titles#Use_commonly_recognizable_names would seem to support me. Siuenti (talk) 15:34, 2 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. "Tiptoe through the Tulips" is 3 times as common on Google Books as "Tip Toe Through the Tulips with Me". Even discounting alternate spellings of "Tiptoe" and double hits, the present title is still much more common.--Cúchullain ^t/c 17:04, 3 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

comment 3 times? on Google Books? this a bit misleading, since some of these hits are for usage of the phrase itself for book titles non-associative. The article is about the song, not the phrase. If you type in the actual full title, you get 9 out of 10 hits correct. Yet if you type in the truncated title you actually get the full title within the search on the very first page. When you research the recorded song and its listing, you get the following title: "Tiptoe Through the Tulips with Me" as can be seen with these prominent names (even Tiny Tim): Van Fleming (1929), Chet Atkins (1956), Mitch Miller (1959), Tiny Tim (1968), Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain (2007), Liberace (1969), Eydie Gorme (1958), Lucille Norman (1951), Annette Hanshaw (1929), Nick Lucas (1944), Jean Goldkette Orchestra (1929). When you go to Musicnotes.com, the leading online sheet music purchasing site and type in "Tiptoe Through the Tulips", you actually get the full title: Tiptoe Through the Tulips With Me. One can make the same, if not more, compelling argument for naming this the original, correct title with a redirect. Maineartists (talk) 17:55, 3 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

3x is actually very conservative, it's really over 6x: 4,630 compared to 714. As I said, even discounting double hits (ie, sources that say "Tiptoe Through the Tulips with Me" but turn up in a search for "Tiptoe Through the Tulips"), the present form is still far more common. In fact, even if every one of the 714 hits for "... with Me" showed up in a search for "Tiptoe Through the Tulips", that still leaves 3916 hits for "Tiptoe Through the Tulips". I see no evidence that the longer version is as or more common.--Cúchullain ^t/c 18:08, 3 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Support in favour of using the original title as used by the tune's composer and lyricist. No doubt, Google has more mentions of the modern, shorter title, largely because Google was not around when the original title was used in the 1920s and 30s. BronHiggs (talk) 01:42, 4 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nomination. A redirect should, indeed, be sufficient to guide all those who only know the song by its streamlined title. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 15:36, 5 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Mild oppose, since Wikipedia goes by "common name", not necessarily the theoretically most correct name. AnonMoos (talk) 02:53, 9 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Undue weight (info boxes)[edit]

I have removed the undue weight of "Singles" info boxes within the article. All content could already be found verbatim within the article; and the images were overwhelming to the text itself. With the addition of the original sheet music (conducive with WP standards for song articles), the imagery was simply too large and unnecessary. Maineartists (talk) 14:51, 2 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Once again, I have removed unnecessary and undue weight infobox and image referring to Tiny Tim's rendition of this song for the same above reasons. Bring it to the Talk Page for consensus before reinstating. Thanks. Maineartists (talk) 13:59, 15 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Bringing the discussion here for consensus to include the info box with image for Tiny Timy's single release. The above is the history of why it does not belong. If the content is so necessary for inclusion at WP, then the single needs it's own article: similar to "Don't Take Your Love From Me". Presently, it out-weighs the content of the article itself. We already know who wrote it, what year it was released, etc from the section content. There is no reason to include artist's singles chronology, YouTube link, etc. Also, the wikilink to Tiny Tim gives a detailed account of this rendition. An info box on Tim's release is not warranted for this article.Maineartists (talk) 12:24, 16 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In Popular Culture[edit]

Hey, @Binksternet: I noticed you rv'd a recent content insertion in the In Popular Culture section, citing: unimportant. Wikipedia should not be used as a reference. I couldn't agree with you more. In fact, I wouldn't be sad to see the entire section go, honestly. To me, it's similar to endless "cover lists" of songs that fill up more than the articles themselves; and are not encyclopedic but more reference. Do you think we could get consensus to remove it from this article? I mean: where does it end? not only with this song, but songs in general listed at WP? Thanks. Maineartists (talk) 19:50, 27 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Maineartists, there's a guideline at WP:SONGCOVER that sets a high bar for inclusion for cover songs. Basically, the cover version needs to be significant, for instance charting somewhere on a prominent sales list, or being mentioned in a book/magazine/newspaper article which is discussing the song and its various cover versions. Outside of the guideline, other versions are often included, like if the original artist contributes to someone else's cover, or if the cover was used in a film, or if lots of observers have commented on the cover version. You can help remove the less important cover versions from articles, citing the WP:SONGCOVER guideline. Album tracks, hidden tracks, bonus tracks and B-sides are usually up for removal. I also remove otherwise non-notable TV show performances such as Glee, American Idol, etc. Binksternet (talk) 20:44, 27 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

OK. But regarding this article and "mentions", i.e. "In the 2011 film Wrecked, the song is played on the radio". Are you in agreement of removal re: original question In Popular Culture? Thanks. Maineartists (talk) 21:07, 27 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted image[edit]

OK. So, the image for this song was deleted. Although hundreds of songs during this era have images for the sheet music on WP; I obviously did not upload it correctly to satisfy WP requirements. There are clearly WP policies that would allow it to represent the song: no other image, artist no longer living, copyright has run out, etc. Would someone please upload it again correctly? I was hoping that editor JuTa would do this, since they were the one deleting it for failure of certain terms. Thanks. I appreciate it; and will learn in the process. Maineartists (talk) 21:33, 31 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Tiptoe, Tip Toe or Tip-Toe?[edit]

What should be consistent with what? The original image in the infobox suggests Top Toe, but there has already been a RM back in 2017 that retained Tiptoe in the article name. 205.239.40.3 (talk) 08:21, 11 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]