Talk:Thirteenth stroke of the clock

A fact from Thirteenth stroke of the clock appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 31 October 2010 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that an 18th-century soldier, court-martialed for sleeping at his post, swore that he heard the clock of St Paul's Cathedral strike 13 times – and other witnesses corroborated it, saving his life?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2010/October.

Wikipedia

12 vs. 24 hour format[edit]

In the "Culture" section, the author states that European countries use the 24 hour format, then in the next paragraph quotes A. Hitler as saying "I make it a principle not to stop until the clock strikes thirteen". Does that mean that Hitler only worked until one hour past noon?

Also, the statement "Americans do not have an understanding of "13 o'clock"" is untrue and, to me, smells of an NPOV violation. We definitely do understand "13 o'clock" when a 24 hour format is being discussed. The joke referred to in the paragraph assumes the more common (for us) 12 hour format. RoastDack (talk) 04:13, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed - "Americans do not have an understanding of "13 o'clock"" is odd and merits rewording. -- the Great Gavini 07:03, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It appears to be a two part question, so I'll take each part to answer seperately.

1) The Hitler quote explains why he said that - He wanted to point out to his enemy that he was not going to surrender under any circumstances, by using an analogy that theoretically could not happen. You took it out of context. Had you read the rest of the paragraph you would have seen he was referring to an impossible situation - nothing to do with time itself, like as you say "one hour past noon." While there may be "1300 hours" (i.e. European time, American military time), a striking clock is suppose to stike a maximum of twelve times.

2) Customarily Americans do NOT have a 24 hour format, as Europe does. I went on to explain: Americans, however, do not except in the military. In the American military is used the 24 hour format, like what is customary to Europeans - but NOT "customary" to Americans. See the reference.--Doug Coldwell ^talk 12:08, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Edited the section. Hopefully it is now more professional in tone, more encyclopedic, less confusing, and contains more information. RoastDack (talk) 12:51, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

American article, so wrote from an American viewpoint. Your points are not professional in tone - as I have no idea, as an American, what "Pacific Ghost Time" is. Never heard of that. Very confusing what you wrote. The article 24-hour clock says The 12-hour clock is however still dominant in a handful of countries, particularly in Australia, Canada (except Quebec), India, the Philippines, Pakistan, the United Kingdom and the United States. The title to the reference book is Hundred and One American English riddles. The children's riddle ALWAYS applies - see striking clock. By the way, what country are you from?--Doug Coldwell ^talk 13:08, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Another way to put the children's riddle that has the same meaning and makes it clearer, is: "What time is it when the clock strikes thirteen times?" The key word is "times". This word was assumed in the original version and just dropped because it was obvious (forgot what this is called). So, bottom line, when a striking clock strikes thirteen times it means the clock is broken and time to either fix the clock or get a new one. Even children understand this. Count the bongs of the Mason County Courthouse and you will see it strikes 13 times. The residents of Ludington, Michigan, as well as the County Administrator and the clock repairman that serviced the clock for over 30 years, all agree this is incorrect. Read the section on "Striking clock mechanism." This striking clock should ONLY strike one time at 1 o'clock, however as you can see it strikes 13 times - wong on the bong! A striking clock should NEVER strike 13 times at any time!--Doug Coldwell ^talk 14:45, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Had to remove your edits, since there is no references supporting your opinion that the children's riddle does not apply in countries that use a 24-hour system. While a 24-hour clock may have 1300 hours, a customary striking clock is NEVER suppose to strike thirteen times. One that has been modified to NOT follow the tradition may do so or one that is defective. Don't assume that 1300 hours is thirteen strikes of the bell - it is NOT! AND don't assume that thirteen strikes of the clock is 1300 hours - it also is NOT the case. The Mason County Courthouse tower clock (above I pointed out) ALSO strikes thirteen times at 1 in the morning (one hour past midnight) - which is ALSO wrong. Any way you strike it, the children's riddle is CORRECT. Keep in mind the title of the article, the clearer version being "thirteen strikes of the clock". Sometimes it is used as a legal term and in court. Your Dack is Roasted. The American version is "Your Goose is Cooked". --Doug Coldwell ^talk 16:10, 31 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Still needs work[edit]

I think this page is interesting but needs editing. Material needs moving around, and the writing should be tidied up. Article should start by summarizing the striking pattern of the standard clock, and explaining that most clocks don't strike 13, hence the three ideas of unexpected, wrong, and impossible which are discernible. Then it could list the various examples - Haddock, and the strangely-anonymous-except-in-footnote but 'prominent physicist', then the historical episodes, followed by literary examples. There's no reason to have the 'Striking clock mechanism' section at all - Wikipedia has a better article about it already. The Hitler quote is more interesting: the conclusion of the first world war famously ended at 11:00, and Hitler was also probably echoing the well-known German saying "wenn die Uhr dreizehn schlägt", meaning never (http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2007/1/29/183327/233). There's also a film that could be mentioned (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0351867/). And is there any mention of the obvious link with triskaidekaphobia? :) Some mention of the fact that early clocks used to strike up to 24? Europeans might say 13 hours, treize heures, dreizehn uhr, not "1300 hours"? The Francis Egerton para needs rewriting. And so on. Needs work, but I don't want to barge in on someone's efforts... Cormullion (talk) 16:49, 31 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've had a bit of a go at this, but it still needs quite a lot of work. I have reduced the Mark Twain quote from "known" to "claimed" because I can't source it. Can you give a source for early clocks striking up to 24? That would be a very useful addition. seglea (talk) 20:45, 6 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]