Talk:Skitch Henderson

From Skitch's son Hans

My father's early years are a mystery to everyone remaining on this earth. He was a very private man about his early past, and as it was obviously uncomfortable for him to discuss it (presumably because it was not a happy childhood), no one I know ever pressed him to reveal more than the little he volunteered. I can only pass on what he told us about himself, and I have not done any independent research to verify the truth of any of this.

The little he told his family about his childhood is this: He was born in England, was taken as a child by his father to the U.S. Raised by various friends and relatives, notably Hatty Gift, supported himself from the age of 12 playing piano in roadhouses and brothels around Minnesota and Montana.

He volunteered for the RAF when war broke out in Europe, and then transferred to the USAF when America joined the war. He flew in Europe, Africa and Burma, and was a flight trainer in the U.S. He had many friends and contacts in the military, several of whom discussed their shared experiences in the war with him in my presence, and we also have remembrance letters from pilots who served with him or were trained by him. There was an implication that he did secret work (e.g. picking up important Germans at the end of the war in Europe), so perhaps this explains a lack of documentation - I would be VERY surprised to learn the whole military side was fabricated.

He said he hadn't had a passport, and his military documents were lost when his duffle was stolen on the trip home from the war. So his aunt got a U.S. birth certificate made up by having a local judge certify that he was born in Minnesota. I personally would love to get proof he was actually British, as that would then apparently allow me to get dual citizenship with a UK passport myself.

Regarding the "diatribe" comment - he was not at all religious, but was quite conservative, especially regarding music. I was born in 1961, and by the time I was choosing my own music (1972-4?), although he expressed a personal distaste for my preference for rock 'n roll, he never talked about any moral issues in relation to music, and in fact I'm sure the record would show him booking rock acts for the Tonight Show. I'm not questioning the accuracy of the writer of this comment, but want to set the record straight that if this was his attitude at that moment in time, it didn't last.

But it is true that he never actually enjoyed listening to rock past the Elvis/Buddy Holly stage. He was also VERY strongly (but privately) anti-drugs, apparently from seeing many close friends and brilliant musicians destroyed by them over the years. He felt the same way about alcoholism. Perhaps this is where the vehemence of his statement about Jim Morrison came from?

The tax issue was a very difficult one. According to Dad: He just signed some papers presented to him by his accountants. The backdating (and over-valuation?) was apparently done by many people, including Richard Nixon. New York area Democratic party prosecutors wanted a very visible example made to be able to put pressure on Nixon at the time, but of course Ford's pardon made the whole thing a huge waste.

My father was a very moral man in the best sense of the word (actions not words), and hated hypocrisy more than anyone else I know.

Regarding the origin of his name, I never heard anything other than the Bing Crosby "sketch --> skitch" story.

Any other questions, feel free to contact me by email and I'll try to help best I can:

172.132.94.151 06:45, 9 November 2005 (UTC) hans@pobox.com (edited 7 Nov 2009 - updated email address)

Thanks, Hans. The big problem here is that editors are bound by Wikipedia's rules of research to base articles only on published sources. See Wikipedia:Verifiability: " articles ... should refer only to facts, assertions, theories, ideas, claims, opinions, and arguments that have already been published by a reputable publisher". Therefore anything you tell us can't be used unless substantiated elsewhere. Tearlach 12:39, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

P.S. There are a number of statements already in the article with no cited source. See below. Tearlach 12:39, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

One of the more laughable aspects of Wikipedia. Doesn't matter if it's dead-wrong - it's okay if it's from a "reliable" publication. I'm acquainted with the parent of a public figure who found error after error in their celebrity offspring's bio, but it was from "reliable sources".TheDarkOneLives (talk) 02:11, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Hans: You might want to contact this person. He seems to be related to your grandmother and says he has pictures of the family, including your dad at age 5, in Minnesota. Questors 22:09, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

I support Wikipedia's previous-reputable-publication standard, but so much gets excluded, like Hans's information, that Talk has slowly become an invaluable section of propositions waiting to be verified and published elsewhere. Some journalist doing a story on the Tonight Show should contact Hans and follow up. Profhum (talk) 23:38, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Citizenship?

Anybody know WHY he changed from a Brit to a Yank, during WWII no less?

Early life

Intro: he became an American citizen in WWII, so he's American now (afterthought: "naturalized" handles this point, as with Arnold Vosloo and Alistair Cooke).

Second paragraph: I assume the bit about the family disturbance comes from here. It doesn't say when it happened. The 1920s date for his emigrating to the USA comes from the Evening Mail article. Tearlach 01:33, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

If he was born in Britain he still hold British citizenship? Nick Boulevard 22:40, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Only if he has explicitly opted for dual citizenship. Is there any evidence of that? Tearlach 09:18, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

He was born, raised and given his musical grounding by his English mother in England, the fact that he later moved to the U.S. is significant in his later work but unless someone can show me any reference that he refered to himself as American then he is still a British child/American adult. Nick Boulevard 00:14, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Life in early 1970s

I was a high school kid at one of his motivational speeches; it was a mandatory program at the auditorium for the entire school. It was claimed by the school adminstration that it was going to be a jazz entertainment program for us. Instead, it was a religion-charged diatribe against rock and roll and criticizing Jim Morrison for "raping his microphone". I remember a few years later when he was indicted for tax evasion and thinking that he was quite a hypocrite for telling us about morality while he was cheating the taxman.

Birthplace

We have conflicting background.

World Almanac and IMDb state he was born in Halstad, Minnesota. This is verified by census records.

OK. Sources found: IMDb / census / World Almanac. However, more sources say he was born in Birmingham than in Halstad (Birmingham 349 hits / Halstad 42 hits) plus current obituaries all say Birmingham or at least England. Personally, I don't care where he was born, beyond this conflicting detail being a bit of puzzle that needs investigation rather than just rewriting on the basis of a minority of references.

Same goes for his early life: one source saying his mother dying when he was 2 doesn't fit with another having her enrolling him in the London Conservatory at 7. The new obituaries don't seem very consistent. I suspect the guy's life has been heavily mythologized. The Bing Crosby story is very memorable, but the Nov 2 LA Times obit found a 1953 interview where he said he had no recollection of how he came to be called Skitch. Tearlach 03:30, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Mother's death is from [1]. Census records showing him living in Halstad and born in MN are from 1920 and 1930. Questors 05:01, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Just found this Grand Forks Herald article discussing the birthplace issue. 86.139.254.26 20:20, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Which categories should we kill?

Several of the categories seem to be subject to conflicting information. Here's my input about what should be killed/kept:

• 1918 births, 2005 deaths, United States musicians - Definite KEEP.
• Royal Air Force officers, American World War II veterans - I say KILL. There is no historic record of his having served in either force, and not even his official bio indicates which unit he allegedly served with.
• Naturalized citizens of the United States - KILL. Census records, which are now publicly available for the first two censuses after his birth, give his birthplace as Minnesota, and show him in Minnesota in childhood. Replace with People from Minnesota.

Dale Arnett 22:32, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Agreed. Tearlach 23:39, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Source citations

Some unsourced statements:

Newspaper reports from the period show him in Los Angeles in 1940-1942 and in Los Angeles 1946

He was reduced to such odd jobs as giving motivational speeches at high schools to criticize Jim Morrison of The Doors for "obscenity".

Tearlach 12:39, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

According to contemporary accounts in the Los Angeles Times, he was performing as a pianist and using the nickname "Skitch" in L.A. in 1940, 1942 and 1946, further calling his World War II service into question.

See Wikipedia:Cite sources#How to Cite Sources: "The most important thing is to enter comprehensive reference information — that is, enough information so that a reader can find the original source with relative ease". As this is a contentious point about his career, I think it needs specific issue details. Tearlach 17:41, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

The link to the AP story doesn't work. Also, this story from the NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/03/arts/music/03henderson.html?_r=1) is inconsistent with the facts in the Wikipedia article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.107.239.233 (talk) 03:07, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Tax section has ZERO citations

67.0.76.63 (talk) 00:46, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

From a past resident of Halstad, MN

I grew up in Halstad, MN. A town of about 400-600 people over the years. While I am only 50 - I could probably drive you to Skitch's birth home - or at least the property on which the house existed. My father and grandfather both spoke of him, and his early history and the later claims of "wiping Halstad from his memory" are noted in a Halstad historical book. From an early newspaper article (although not appropriately credited or dated) comes this information:

"LT. LYLE HENDERSON VISITING IN HALSTAD... Second Lt. Lyle Henderson arrived in Halstad on Wednesday for a short visit here at the Floyd Gift home, with his brother Ernest Henderson and other friends and relatives. Lt. Henderson is flying a plane from Chicago to California, and stopped over enroute. He has been working as a Flights Plans Instructor at Merced Field, near Santa Monica, California, and while awaiting orders for an overseas assignment, has been engaged in ferrying planes. Lyle, or Skitch, as he has come to be known, has made quite a name for himself in the musical world, and to radio audiences , having worked on the Bob Hope Show with Skinny Ennis' band and with Andre Kostelanetz. Before induction into the Air Corps he served as musical conductor and pianist with NBC in Hollywood. As many will also recall he also made a guest appearance on the Ginny Simms show from Hollywood last year. Halstad is proud to welcome their local boy who made good, but regret that his visit must necessarily be so short, since he must report back to his field in California next Monday evening."

The history of the family in Halstad states: Lyle Russell (Skitch) Henderson is the son of Joseph and Josie Scheie Henderson. Six children were born to Joe and Josie. Josie died soon after the birth of her sixth child, Lyle. Lyle's aunt and uncle, Hatty and Frank Gift, took Lyle to raise because Hatty was a talented musician she recognized Lyle's potential and set about to teach him at an early age all the music she knew.

Hatty's dedication irked Lyle, yet Hatty persisted in spite of Lyle's resistance. He was later to credit her with "giving him everything he had".

The book goes on to talk about Hatty giving an hour long interview to try to correct the information about Skitch being born in England, but realized she could do little to change it.

It seems unlikely that the people in a small town in northern Minnesota could make up such a story, as well as provide pictures, including one with him and his classmates in his grade school years in front of the still standing school in Halstad.

The information stated comes from "Halstad: A Century of Memories" Halstad Centennial - 1983. There were only 1,000 copies of this book printed and it was not assigned an ISBN number. It is likely a copy could still be located through the Halstad Reunion Committee -Halstad, MN 56548 (no street name or person necessary)

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BetacommandBot 08:56, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

From Stuart Woods

Skitch and I were neighbors in Connecticut during the latter part of his life, and Hans's description of how he got an American birth certificate rings true. Skitch and I both loved flying, but he had sold his airplane when he felt he was too old to fly, so I took him with me on a flight to Chicago, where I was making a book appearance, returning the next day, so we had seven or eight hours to chat while flying. Skitch told me that he was born in England and came to the U.S. as a child, and that he had served in the RAF as a fighter pilot, though he never saw combat. He also told me of how Bing Crosby had saved his life. Crosby was in England during the war and invited Skitch to a dinner that included an American general. Crosby spoke highly of Skitch as a pilot, and he prevailed upon the general to have Skitch transferred to the Army Air Corps, given his American connections, and assigned as his personal pilot. Skitch felt that he would likely have died in combat, if he had continued to fly Spitfires and felt he owed Crosby his life for his intervention. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stuart Woods (talk • contribs) 21:06, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

British birth records

For what it's worth, a scan of the GRO index of British births (available for free at http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl ) shows absolutely no records of anyone being born with the name "Lyle Henderson" anywhere in England or Wales, at any point between 1837 through 1984. The GRO index is the official government register of births for England and Wales. 70.30.84.214 (talk) 04:43, 5 April 2012 (UTC)

Johnny Carson Show

In the bio of Faye Emerson there's mention of something controversial that doesn't appear in his article:

"Former brother-in-law James Roosevelt wrote that "after an incident involving some teen-age girls [Skitch] was dropped from Johnny Carson's Tonight TV show and his career went into eclipse. "

Any more on this, or has it been removed previously? Manytexts (talk) 01:28, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

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