Talk:Saul Goodman/Archive 1

Archive 1

University?

Introducing the character his diploma is briefly shown. It was issued by a third world diploma mill. I can't remember the episode. Has anyone information on this? 84.152.46.81 (talk) 02:24, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

It's the University of American Samoa (which doesn't seem to exist), as can be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdhTL5G32Gw 91.22.18.21 (talk) 18:18, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Renaming Article

Now that Breaking Bad is over would it be appropriate AFTER the new series "Better Call Saul" premieres to rename the article to something like Saul Goodman (TV character) since Saul Goodman will not longer just be a Breaking Bad character. What do y'all think. TheGoofyGolfer (talk) 16:37, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Jane's death an overdose

"Jesse discovers that Jane has died from choking..." Jane's "choking" is incidental to her dying of a heroin overdose. 66.191.43.60 (talk) 07:30, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. DrKiernan (talk) 11:12, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

---

• Saul Goodman (Breaking Bad) → Saul Goodman
• Saul Goodman → Saul Goodman (disambiguation)

– I've never watched a second of Breaking Bad, nor do I intend to, but this appears to be a clear case of a fictional character being WP:PRIMARYTOPIC over a real person. It feels a bit uncomfortable, but it happens, such as in the cases of Peter Parker or Frank Burns (neither of which, for what it's worth, are even article titles). I'm also sensitive to the fact that this may reflect recentism, but it's very unlikely that a percussionist who died almost 20 years ago is going to be increasing in notability, whereas a character about to have his own show is likely to do just that. This also solves the issue, raised above, of disambiguating by one series title when the character is going to be in two, though this isn't a huge problem itself.

The page views make me feel bad for the poor timpanist. With 166 views for him last month compared to 32,747 for the character, how many of the 853 views of the dab do you suppose were looking for each of them? --BDD (talk) 19:43, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

• Support Does appear to be primary topic based on traffic and incoming links, unsurprisingly top web search results for "Saul Goodman" currently all refer to the character. Impressively long spell in the NYPO though, kudos to the real Saul Goodman. benmoore 21:05, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

• Support. As loth as I am to admit, even at a serious encyclopedia, sometimes fake people are more important than real ones. My crystal ball says there is an additional problem with the current title noted above. By the way, if the article is moved, delete the disambiguation page per WP:TWODABS and put a hatnote on this article after the move. —  AjaxSmack  18:23, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

• We don't have to decide importance here, thank God. All we do is decide how much attention an encyclopedia should pay to them. Easy support. (WP:TWODABS anyone?) Red Slash 04:15, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
  • It isn't 2DABS, there's three entries there to three articles that contain information on three different Saul Goodmans. -- 70.50.148.122 (talk) 07:00, 26 January 2014 (UTC)
    • Not by the letter of it so much as the spirit. Red Slash 01:15, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
• Easy support - Almost every single reference to Saul Goodman refers to the fictional character, and it is only expected to increase in November 2014, when Better Call Saul is expected to premiere. It could be a tentative support if many others were named Saul Goodman, but there's only one other person with the name with an article on Wikipedia. Ithinkicahn (talk) 00:55, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Saul Goodman (disambiguation)

After the move enacted in the above discussion, which I fully support, the page Saul Goodman (disambiguation) is now an orphan page, as it is now unnecessary and has been stranded and is not linked from any page. Should this page be deleted? Ithinkicahn (talk) 20:27, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Leave it be. It has three entries, and this article is incorrectly disambiguated, so it should be linked. -- 70.50.148.248 (talk) 01:14, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Sourcing Issues

Hi everyone. I Just wanted to point out that this article is very thin on sources and citations. In particular the plot summaries are giving off the distinct odor of WP:OR. Please be sure that any substantive material added to the article is properly cited. Thanks! -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:19, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Prison Break24, I think the source you provided for this edit is probably acceptable because it is extremely narrow and generally non-controversial. But I would have serious reservations about using a blog for any sort of substantive editing or addition of material to the body of the article. Blogs are almost never considered reliable sources. A great deal of this article is clearly composed of original research, and that is a no no on here. I am not (at least for now) going to start deleting whole sections. But I am going to be keeping an eye on the article, and I will revert attempts to add more material without proper references and citations. This article has serious problems and is not up to encyclopedic standards. -Ad Orientem (talk) 22:55, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Better Call Saul plot synopsis is too long

Hi Floramaegillett and thanks for your contributions to the article. But please remember that this is an encyclopedia, not a blog. Recaps of episodes should be kept to essential details and generally limited to a paragraph if at all possible. While we are not limited by paper, we don't want the article to become so excessively detailed that it becomes unwieldy. I'm not sure the recap of episode 1 could get any more detailed without just posting the script, lol. If a more detailed account is called for then perhaps a separate article dedicated to the episodes might need to be created. But even there, I would say that this is too much. I don't want to revert your recent edits that you clearly put some effort into, but you really do need to trim that down. If we give this much detail to each episode, the article is going to look like a small book by the end of episode three. Also remember that everything added to the article needs a reliable source. And we try not to lean too much on sources that have a direct connection with the subject of the article. Thanks again... -Ad Orientem (talk) 18:29, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Additional aliases

James McGill/Saul Goodman has used Special Agent Jeffrey Steele and Viktor as aliases on the show Better Call Saul. Is this worth adding to the list? My edit was rejected but it might be worth considering.Baudelairesspectre (talk) 03:24, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

Updated synopsis for BCS S5

Right now S5 is about 1500 words and while there's no limit, for comparison S3 is 560-ish, S4 is 450. It is obviously far too long as is, and that's because its hitting nitty-gritty details at the character level we don't need. Mind you, this is a complicated season due to the fact both the law and drug side start to link in, so a summary can be longer, but it shouldn't be that much longer.

To avoid any issues, I'm proposing, as a start, this reduced version which comes in at 750. It is extremely high-level and needs to stay there to capture the main themes related to Jimmy here which is the "breaking bad" of Kim, and the union of the drug side of this story with Jimmy's legal side. It's very easy to get into the details of the Acker case or the money pickup stuff, but really these can be grossly simplified enough to these relevant points. I would also add this would potentially change with S6 when it airs, if there are more salient points to focus on. We can't crystal-ball what we don't know, so we sorta have to go what the show appeared to make a big deal out of.

Jimmy starts his Saul Goodman practice drawing on the same crowd using his prepaid phones. When Jimmy offers to help Kim's pro bono clients with his schemes, she asks him to keep his distance. Mesa Verde tells Kim to evict Everett Acker from his leased land to make way for a call center, offering only a meager settlement. Kim takes sympathy with Acker and has Jimmy become his legal council and use his cons to delay actions as to try to sway the bank to an alternate plan. The bank refuses, and Rich warns Kim her job with Mesa Verde is at risk, so Kim tells Jimmy to enter into the planned settlement. Instead, Jimmy goes behind her back to present an outlandish offer and threats of public blackmail against the bank, which as he planned, leads the bank to agree to a more favorable settlement for Acker. Kim, furious at Jimmy for not making her aware of his plan, suggest they marry to enjoy spousal privileges, which they do at a small courthouse ceremony.

Meanwhile, Howard, feeling guilty of his treatment of Jimmy in the past, offers him a job at HHM. Jimmy antagonizes over the offer, and instead harasses Howard by damaging his car with bowling balls and sending prostitutes to bother him during a business lunch. Eventually Howard realizes Jimmy is just toying with him and rescinds the job offer; Jimmy yells back to Howard that he is now much bigger than HHM could handle.

Jimmy soon becomes involved with the Salamanca cartel through Nacho. Jimmy helps free Domingo Molina from jail as a confidential informant for DEA Agent Hank Schrader, allowing Lalo Salamanca to feed information on rival Gus Fring's operations. Later, Jimmy serves as Lalo's council when he is arrested on murder charges without bail. Jimmy tells Kim that Lalo wants him to make bail so he can flee to Mexico, but that he intends not to fight for it as he has no interest in being a "friend of the cartel", which Kim appreciates. However, Gus wants Lalo out of jail, and Mike forces Jimmy to secure Lalo's bail, set at $7 million in cash. Lalo convinces Jimmy to collect the money from a remote desert pickup site from the Cousins for an additional $100,000 fee, despite Kim's objections to Jimmy being the cartel's bagman. On the way back Jimmy is attacked by hired gunmen but rescued by Mike on Gus's orders. Jimmy's car then breaks down, leaving them trekking across the desert with the money for two days before they can call for help. Jimmy is traumatized by his near-death ordeal.

After making Lalo's bail, Jimmy gives Lalo a cover story that Mike created that omits the attack. Jimmy gives the same story to Kim but she sees through his story and offers to help him recover. Instead, Jimmy goes to defend his clients in court the next day but remains off his game. Jimmy learns from Mike his trauma will take time to go away. Jimmy returns that night to learn Kim quit S&C and gave up Mesa Verde. As they argue, Mike warns Jimmy that Lalo, instead of going to Mexico, is coming to their place. Lalo tells Jimmy he found a flaw in his cover story from the bullet holes in his car. Kim stands up to Lalo, suggests a plausible explanation for the bullet holes, and that he should trust Jimmy more. Lalo seems satisfied and leaves, but Jimmy and Kim move to a hotel for their safety. The next day, Jimmy learns from Mike that Lalo since returned to Mexico and is to be assassinated that evening, putting an end to the matter. Neither Mike nor Jimmy are aware Lalo escapes the attempt.

That evening Kim tells Jimmy she ran into Howard at the courthouse. On learning she left S&C, Howard told her about Jimmy's harassment over the HHM job and that Jimmy was a bad influence on her, which she aggressively denied. She instead suggests to Jimmy they sabotage Howard to force an early settlement in the Sandpiper case, which would give Jimmy his seven-figure payout sooner. Jimmy warns Kim this is a scorched earth tactic, but she confidently affirms her intent for this course of action by returning the same finger gun gesture to Jimmy that he had used before in announcing his Saul Goodman law firm to her.

Obviously would need to repopulate the sources for this, too. --Masem (t) 21:50, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

@Masem: Here's my attempt. It's 723 words.

Jimmy starts a law practice as Saul Goodman to capitalize on the alias from his prepaid cell phone business. He offers to help Kim trick a pro bono client into accepting a favorable plea bargain. Kim declines, but then runs the con herself. The next day she tells Jimmy she does not want to lie to succeed and he agrees not to interfere with her clients. Mesa Verde intends to evict Everett Acker from his leased land to make way for a new call center, and offers Acker a meager settlement. Kim sympathizes with Acker and has Jimmy become his counsel. Jimmy employs delaying tactics in hopes of swaying the bank to accept an alternative to Acker's eviction. Kevin, the bank’s president, continues to refuse. Kim asks Jimmy to persuade Acker to accept an improved settlement in which she will make up the difference between what Acker wants and what the bank will pay. Jimmy agrees, but at the meeting to finalize the deal, he surprises everyone with an outlandish offer and threats of negative publicity against the bank, which leads Kevin to agree to a more favorable deal. Kim is furious at Jimmy for not making her aware of his plan and suggests they marry so their conversations will be protected by spousal privilege. They marry the next day in a small courthouse ceremony.

Howard feels guilt over his past treatment of Jimmy and offers him a job at HHM. Jimmy is unsettled by the reminder of his past and harasses Howard by damaging his car and disrupting his business lunch with Clifford Main. Howard realizes Jimmy is toying with him and rescinds the job offer; Jimmy angrily replies that as Saul Goodman, he is too big for the constraints of HHM.

Nacho and Lalo involve Jimmy in the Salamanca drug business when they hire him to gain Domingo’s release from jail by having him pose as a confidential informant for DEA Agent Hank Schrader. Jimmy later represents Lalo when he is arrested for murder. Gus wants Lalo released, so Mike provides information that enables Jimmy to persuade a judge to grant bail of $7 million cash. Jimmy agrees to accept $100,000 in exchange for transporting the money from a remote desert site. He picks up the cash from Leonel and Marco (the Cousins), but on his return trip is attacked by several gunmen. Mike was tracking Jimmy for Gus and kills all but one attacker. Jimmy's car breaks down, forcing them to trek cross-country with the money. They walk for two days and work together to kill the remaining gunman before they are able to call for help. Afterwards, Jimmy suffers from post-traumatic stress.

After posting Lalo's bail, Jimmy tells Lalo he walked cross-country after his car broke down so he would not risk losing the money. Jimmy tells Kim the same story, but she sees he is lying and tells him she will be ready to listen when he is ready to tell her the truth. Jimmy cuts his recuperation short to deal with clients at the courthouse. When he returns that night, Kim tells him she quit Schweikart & Cokely and gave up the Mesa Verde account. As they argue, Mike phones to warn Jimmy that instead of going to Mexico, Lalo is en route to Jimmy and Kim’s apartment. As Mike listens in via Jimmy’s concealed cell phone and trains a sniper rifle on Lalo, Lalo questions Jimmy’s version of events and reveals he found bullet holes in Jimmy’s car. Kim stands up to Lalo and berates him for not trusting Jimmy. Lalo seems satisfied and leaves, but Jimmy and Kim move to a hotel for their safety. The next day, Jimmy learns from Mike that Lalo returned to Mexico and is to be assassinated that evening.

That evening Kim tells Jimmy she saw Howard at the courthouse. On learning she left S&C, Howard told her about Jimmy's harassment campaign and suggested that Jimmy was a bad influence on her, which she aggressively denied. She suggests they sabotage Howard to force an early settlement in the Sandpiper case, which would give Jimmy his seven-figure share of the settlement sooner. Jimmy counsels against it, but Kim confidently affirms her intent by returning the same finger gun gesture Jimmy used when announcing he intended to practice law as Saul Goodman.

Billmckern (talk) 23:12, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

I'm generally fine with any rewording as long as you and others are agreeing that this condensed size is appropriate and sufficient and within the plot size consider; what I'm wanting to avoid is cutting this down and then watching the word count build back up over time because some feel details are necessary, so I'm just making sure this proposed shunted version is good (This also needs to reflect to the other major characters, Kim's first, the others will be different) Its tempting to go into the details of his desert ordeal, for example, but that's where adding the episode ref link will help, and should that ordeal end up being significant to the character, we can exapnd on that somewhere. --Masem (t) 03:39, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Image removal

CatcherStorm: I had to revert back to Saul's old image for obvious reasons. If you want to replace it with the other photo you uploaded for now, you can. The Optimistic One (talk) 18:52, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

CatcherStorm: I actually prefer the image of Jimmy that's up now. It goes well with the box. The Optimistic One (talk) 22:51, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Replace or Keep

File:Saul Goodman.jpg
File:Jimmy McGill BCS S3.png

Kailash29792, Masem: While its clear that the S5 shot should not be used. Do you think the other upload is better suited or should we keep the original? The Optimistic One (talk)

Point of note, you cannot use non-free on talk pages, I've had to just link the images above. --Masem (t) 19:10, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Masem: My bad. Are you in favour of replacing the original? The Optimistic One (talk) 19:39, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

3d saul

Add in popular culture and add text that he is memed in a meme called 3D Saul Goodman Villager3222 (talk) 02:26, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Saul Goodman BCS Season 6.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:07, 26 September 2022 (UTC)