Talk:Satiric misspelling/Archive 1

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Archive 1 Archive 2

San Francisco Bay View

The link to San Francisco Bay View should stay. An example should be given of regular use of "Amerikkka." A search for "amerikkka" on Google News will always yield at least one sfbayview article. If you feel it should be incorporated into the article itself, please do so, but please do not remove mention altogether. Taco Deposit | Talk-o Deposit 19:46, Oct 9, 2004 (UTC)

See
And for more see http://www.google.com/search?q=amerikkka+site%3Asfbayview.com Taco Deposit | Talk-o Deposit 19:52, Oct 9, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks. Weird that the other search didn't work. Normally these should be equivalent, no? -- Jmabel 20:11, Oct 9, 2004 (UTC)

Try using a shorter form of the URL. See also my comment in the main article if you haven't already. Shorne 23:19, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Ranger$

I have reverted "Ranger$" as an example. One, because I'm not sure it's political. Two, consensus has developed on this article that requires all examples to have a cite. Taco Deposit | Talk-o Deposit 23:12, Oct 12, 2004 (UTC)

pResident, (p)resident, (s)election

Does anyone have any good citations for these as they pertain to Bush? Shorne 23:14, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

You might look for something in The Nation shortly after he took office, they were listing a lot of these. I remember them on one occasion after Gore v. Bush using "president select" rather than "president elect". -- Jmabel|Talk 00:27, Oct 13, 2004 (UTC)

Daly

By the way, what do you think of including some of Mary Daly's feminist usages here, notably "gyn/ecology" and "the/rapist"? -- Jmabel|Talk 00:27, Oct 13, 2004 (UTC)

I don't see why not. Maybe also a link to Womyn. Shorne 01:12, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Wikkkipedia

Google finds two pages on which "Wikkkipedia" appears. Shorne 04:06, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

And now it will be far more, as this page is echoed to our mirrors. -- Jmabel | Talk 18:45, Nov 24, 2004 (UTC)

Proposed changes

I would like to make the following changes to this article:

  1. Re-title it Politicized spellings (or "Politicised spellings" if you must)
  2. Move puns to List of pejorative political puns

Comments? Taco Deposit | Talk-o to Taco 16:27, Feb 9, 2005 (UTC)

My 2 cents:
  1. Nice and concise; sounds good to me. (I prefer the UK spelling but it doesn't matter as long as there is a link from the other spelling.)
  2. Hmmm...shouldn't these to be merged, as, AFAICC, nearly all pejorative political puns are politicised spellings and vice versa. Also, where does the List of political epithets come in to this; is there any kind of clear

Public School Section violates NPOV policy

The current phrasing implies that students are in fact illiterate due to poor teaching public schools. I've added a flag so someone can check it out. 68.44.79.98 04:36, 15 February 2006 (UTC) I'll bite. Ethan Mitchell 14:36, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Unorganised

I recomend restructuring the article more like a list rather than an "article" as it is hard to follow. --Cat out 12:04, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

KKKlinton

I've added a mention of "Hillary KKKlinton" (along with a citation) since I've seen that too.Trilateral chairman 02:41, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Klan use

From the article: "Replacing the letter 'c' with 'k' in the first letter of a word came into use by the Ku Klux Klan during its early years in the mid to late 1800s." I'd like to see a citation on that. The Klan stuck "K" or "Kl" on the front of a lot of words ("klavern", "kloran"). Other than "Klan" itself, I can't think of other "c"-->"k" transformations, let alone enough to constitute a pattern, though I'll admit I'm no expert. - Jmabel | Talk 22:09, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

Neutral point of view

The article seems to be biased against certain parties, such as in the $ section. I think this section in particular should simply describe the use of currency symbols to replace letters, while leaving the examples out.--GeneralDuke 16:58, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Nope. Examples are what it is about. Wikipedia is not endorsing these examples, simply citing them. - Jmabel | Talk 00:39, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Brazil / Brasil

What is supposed to be political about Brazil vs. Brasil? It is simply English vs. Portuguese spelling. - Jmabel | Talk 02:50, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was PAGE MOVED by User:Sommers yesterday. -GTBacchus(talk) 00:24, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Alternative political spelling → Satiric misspelling — The article is about intentional misspellings used to satirize, not alternative variations in valid spelling (e.g., "honor" and "honour"). Its scope is not limited to politics. Also, the article seems to introduce "alternative political spelling" as a term for the phemenon, which violates WP:NOR. ("An edit counts as original research if it does any of the following: ... It defines new terms") "Satiric misspelling" seems more like a description than a name being given to the subject. –Sommers (Talk) 16:58, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Survey

Add  # '''Support'''  or  # '''Oppose'''  on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~. Please remember that this survey is not a vote, and please provide an explanation for your recommendation.

Survey - in support of the move

  1. "Alternative political spelling" is indeed a neologism, and the user who attempted to introduce this neologism by creating this article under that name should be severely disciplined. TacoDeposit 00:36, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
    Comment only Doesn't "satiric misspelling" suffer from the same flaw? And don't the NOR issues have more to do with the content than the article name? Gene Nygaard 06:46, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
    In any case like this one where the article's subject doesn't have a proper or well-recognized name, it's inevitable that we'll have the problem of settling on a title (any of which might seem "flawed" this way), but the thing to do is describe the subject accurately and neutrally, without implying that the article introduces an original, unique label, the way an essay or research paper might. (Current event articles obey this principle all the time -- 2007 United Kingdom letter bombs, for instance. Calling the subject "the Letter Bomb Incident" would be OR, unless published sources did first.) It's a judgment call, but I think "satiric misspelling" is much better in this regard because the words' meanings simply and accurately describe what the article talks about; as it is, the article reads as though the reader is expected to recognize or use the less precise and more contrived-sounding phrase "alternative political spelling" to stand for what is being discussed. To answer your other question, WP:NOR applies to any "unpublished concepts" appearing on Wikipedia, including the coining of terms in article titles. Thanks for your attention and questions. –Sommers (Talk) 13:09, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
  2. Per nom—Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley talk contrib 16:26, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
  3. support simply because it is a better name. i don't think wp:nor relates to article title and the purpose of a title is to most give the most accurate and common title for the subject. I think the proposed title satisfies that. 205.157.110.11 00:24, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Survey - in opposition to the move

Discussion

Add any additional comments:

Since it's been four days with no "oppose" votes, I'm going to go ahead and perform the move. Thanks to everyone who provided input. Further discussion of the article's title is welcome. –Sommers (Talk) 19:50, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

what about psychotherapist

psychotherapist = psycho the rapist —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Imanadmin NOT (talk • contribs) 03:43, 14 February 2007 (UTC).

We already have (well cited from Mary Daly) "the/rapist". Do you have a good citation for this variant? - Jmabel | Talk 02:26, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Oll korrect

"Oll korrect" should be mentioned in this article. Badagnani 06:20, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Letter K not in spanish?

"A similar usage in Spanish (and in Italian too) is to write okupa rather than "ocupa" (meaning a building or area occupied by squatters [6]), which is particularly remarkable because the letter "k" is not found in native Spanish words."

Kilógramo? Kinesiologo? Kirie? Kirieleison?

Native Spanish words. —Nightstallion 09:02, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
ka? :) --Error 00:09, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
*grins* You're cheating. ;) —Nightstallion (?) 09:25, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

And from what I understand from living with a bunch of dirty squatters in Spain, is that the "K" thing comes along with solidarity with the Basques, who use "k" for all the hard "c" sounds as a separation form Spanish identity. Maybe I can find a source for this. Murderbike 08:31, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Alternative political spelling#"K" replacing "C"

The article mentions, without any source backing the hypothesis, that the K in okupa may be based in the widespread use of that consonant in Euskera. The theory is highly implausible, the well-known radicalism of the Basque left notwithstanding; for one, it's common in other Spanish-speaking countries, as well as in Italian, which is unlikely to have been influenced by Basque politics. It's far more likely to come from punk preference for K in the spelling of common words, and the long-standing liasion between punk counterculture and anarchism. Anarcho-punk is often spelled anarkopunk in Spanish. Taragüí @ 13:33, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Meh, as I said above before I saw this, this explanation is actually what the squatter punks I lived with in Spain said was the reason for using the "k" so much. Murderbike 08:33, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Faux

Faux is sometimes used to replace parts of words as well, but is not mentioned here. 'Faux' means fake, so it is used in places like Fauxbook (for a fake account made in Facebook) or Faux News (in place of Fox news, commenting on how the network can report opinion instead of fact). Just a suggestion Good Tidings - Navarro (talk) 23:14, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Apache with a cent sign? (Apa¢he)

No mention of this anywhere, although personally I'd like to leave it out because apache rules.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.89.148.9 (talk) 20:41, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Comments

Now, this is enlightening! Wetman 08:27, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The following exchange occurred in comments on the article text:

ha haaaa this page is soooo funny lol! - RaNdOmGuY69 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.10.222.108 (talk) 13:44, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

I commented out most of the lengthy lists, commenting, " Without citations, this list is excessive; I'd welcome them back with citations. I'd also like to see a citation on Demokkkrat and Kkkonservative."

Shorne restored most of the items in question 22:27, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC), saying they were "...cited many times on Google... I don't see much to be gained from specific citations for those that are widely used."

What is to be gained is to give some indication of who is using them. If they are being used almost entirely by 16-year-olds posting to each other's blogs, that's a very different matter than if they are being used by established organizations in their literature. I suspect that for most of these it is closer to the former. But, again, the list is simply excessive. Three items will suffice to illustrate the principle; the only good reason to list more would be if we can cite them being used in significant contexts. -- Jmabel 23:04, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)

I can easily provide citations; I'm just afraid that they will spark a political war. As for whether three suffice, that's a matter of opinion. I don't think that the list is too long. People who search Wikipedia for something like "kkkapitalism" won't find the page unless that word is used on it. I also question your selection of three terms. I certainly would have made different choices. "U$" and its relatives belong on the list. They're among the most frequently used of all of these.
I agree, however, that we don't want pages and pages of hapax legomena. Shorne 00:52, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Again, what's interesting is what you can cite. Preferably chronologically early and/or from a source that someone should care about. Take a look at my citations for "Amerika" in the article for an illustration of what I'm talking about. -- Jmabel 05:00, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)
After someone irresponsibly reverted all of my changes (including a correction of usage), I restored most and added links to serious-looking literature. Most of the stuff that can be found on the Web is just private writing in discussion groups and the like, but there are publications that do routinely use these and other spellings. I've even seen many of these forms in print.
I did omit all spellings that seemed to be used only casually, as there wasn't much point in providing a citation to some chat page frequented by semi-literates.
I'm thinking of moving the section "Beyond spelling" to another article. It doesn't really belong here, and there's enough material to expand it into a full article. Shorne 18:02, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I don't see it as "irresponsible" at all - no need for that. You've now cited the information and made your additions worthwhile, which is great. violet/riga (t) 18:35, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Sorry for not being clear. I meant that it struck me as irresponsible to wind multiple sets of changes back when at least one or two of them (such as changing neutral gender to neuter gender) should not have been controversial. Lately two or three people have been reverting my changes wholesale on other pages, including spelling corrections and the like, so I'm probably a bit sensitive to seeing deletions that seem indiscriminate. I'm sorry for giving the wrong impression. Shorne 19:55, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
This is an excellent set of citations. Great work: this is now a very useful article.
Yes, thank you, everyone who has contributed. Taco Deposit | Talk-o Deposit 19:00, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)
If you can expand the section "Beyond spelling" to more than a paragraph, then, yes, move it to a new article (and have the two link to one another). I added that because it is an obviously related phenonmenon. Thought of making it a separate article myself, but we've got enough obscure stubs. -- Jmabel 18:39, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)
I don't like the "Beyond spelling" section here. When I created this article I wanted it to be about alternate spellings only. The "Beyond spelling" section could easily become filled with things like "repug" and "demon-crat" and "shrub" and "lie-beral." I think that stuff is more at home at List of pejorative political slogans. Taco Deposit | Talk-o Deposit 19:00, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)
There are also "Bliar" (for "Blair"), "(p)resident" (implying that Bush has no legitimate claim to the office), "(s)election" (the dubious election of Bush in 2000), and many, many more of these. Unlike politicised spellings, these don't have much of a claim to being special. (Are there other domains in which people change the spellings of words to make a point? I can only think of advertising, and then it's usually just an attention-getting device.)
List of pejorative political slogans may not be the best place for this sort of thing, though it's certainly more appropriate than this page. I'll move it in a few days if there's no objection. For now, I'll add the above.
By the way, thanks for creating this article. It's a useful contribution on a subject little discussed, and I think it will grow over time. Certainly the use of these spellings is on the rise.
Has anyone seen much use of the pound sign (£) in alternative spellings? I came across an instance of £ondon (you'll find it the link on Wa$hington), but I didn't want to cite it. I've seen B£air and Eng£and at least once or twice before. Again, I won't put these into the article unless their frequency or importance justifies their inclusion. Shorne 19:55, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Surely there must be some use of € somewhere too? violet/riga (t) 21:39, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
€urope? G€rmany? Franc€? Tok¥o? Shorne 22:40, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I don't think List of pejorative political slogans is the right place for these, either. I think it belongs on a new page, unless something more appropriate exists. I added it here because, at least in Spanish, it tends to be used by the same sources that use, for example, "amig@s". Maybe it's a new List of pejorative political word substitutions? And maybe part of List of pejorative political slogans should be factored out to that because they aren't really slogans? -- Jmabel 21:30, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)

I've thought for some time that we should rework that article List of pejorative political slogans. It's too much of a golden wastebasket. Some of those slogans are common; some are regional or ephemeral. And I think that Zionist entity should be an article in its own right. It isn't really pejorative; it's a clear denial of the legitimacy of Israel. Shorne 22:40, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Mortal Kombat

Would Mortal kombat get stuck in here because of the "k"? or is this just political stuff? Firio (talk) 02:07, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

I think it belongs in the same category as Krusty the Clown. See my comment up above. Being satiric doesn't in and of itself mean being political, e.g. saying Slowaris for Solaris isn't political, but it seems that the K-for-C usually is political. Soap Talk/Contributions 02:11, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Krusty the Clown spelling?

I have noticed use of satiric misspelling in terms of Krusty the Clown and his products in The Simpsons episodes and comics. Examples are: Kamp Krusty (hard C replaced by K) and Kwality (Qu being replaced by Kw). --Marianian (talk) 19:06, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

I don't think that should be considered satiric. It really is in the same category as all the K-ifications of Linux programs such as Konqueror. The only time I would consider K-for-C to be "satiric" is in usages like Amerika where it is supposed to be the "Nazi" version of America, which is a usage that to be honest I have never even seen myself. Maybe I'm too young. I've seen AmeriKKKa and Ameriqa, the latter of which represents a conservative viewpoint on what America would be like if it were conquered by Islamic terrorists. Soap Talk/Contributions 19:16, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
The Simpsons is a satire, so most anything they do would be assumed to be satirical. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots 05:18, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

furom spaces

I dont think its agood idea to use furom spaces to cite satric mispellings. Some effort should be made if people would like to keep these in. The danger here is that theres living people that are being defamed on the site without any valid source Ottawa4ever (talk) 14:46, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

CI$

I'm surprised CI$ doesn't have an entry here... not enough computing old fogeys around? I guess...

CI$ stands for CompuServe Information Service, an "online service" that used to charge an arm and a leg for access, and email by the byte. 76.66.197.17 (talk) 15:52, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

List of pejorative political puns

I created List of pejorative political puns and moved some of the material there that did not belong here because it had nothing much to do with spelling.

Also, I created a section "Hidden puns" in the present article for those puns that are wholly dependent on spelling. Shorne 19:09, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Would this count? In the song "Matière grasse contre matière grise" on Qui sème le vente recolte le tempo, MC Solaar refers to "caca-pipi-caca-pipi-talistes." In French, caca and pipi mean exactly what you think they mean. --98.214.10.145 (talk) 14:15, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

死ンドラー

What is 死ンドラー? --84.61.182.248 (talk) 16:28, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

FIArrari

I dunnoto put this where, but is FIArrari (i.e. jibes/misspelling when the FIA favours Scuderia Ferrari) belongs in this article? The Junk Police (reports|works) 18:10, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Use of swastika

Should we include use of the swastika as a substitute for the letter S? I've seen many examples (notably the 2004 Republican Convention in NYC) of protesters replacing the letter S in Bush with a swastika. Is there a symbol to represent this? Probably not, but we should at least include a reference. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.165.87.40 (talk • contribs) 8 Jan 2006.

I recall seeing it in "Nixon" during the 1970s, and in Texas Aryans, both times substituting for the X. Reputedly the first use was commonplace in Fidel Castro's Cuba. The latter is by a racist group often associated with a prison gang.

The swastika is unwelcome and in some places illegal. Does it even have an ASCII code? The Hammer and Sickle does.

Some might be tempted to use it for the X in Ku Klux Klan and its obvious derivatives because of similar objects of hatred shared by the Klan and Nazis. Of course the letter X is rare in almost all European languages in Latin script. If anything, the SS-rune would have similar use because the doubled S is more commonplace -- but again, note that its appearance would be unwelcome and illegal in many places.Pbrower2a (talk) 05:21, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

The swastika in fact has ASCII codes.Pbrower2a (talk) 05:26, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

Don't delete legitimate information, add references

I have reverted the deletion of information from this article and added more references. I encourage others to do the same. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kenny Strawn (talk • contribs) 23:02, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Can you try to find some reliable sources - rather than Urban Dictionary, or forum posts? –xenotalk 22:19, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
One of the posts (the Windows one) was your own writing! That shouldnt count as a "reference" in my eyes. —Soap— 22:32, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Way too much focus on America

Considering how much people whine about 'americentrism' in positive or neutral articles, it shouldn't be in a negative one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.182.130.241 (talk) 20:06, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Suggested move: Significant respelling

Many of the examples offered in the article are not at all satiric. They may be pointed, or jocular, or disparaging, but many don't employ "trenchant wit, irony, or sarcasm ... to expose and discredit vice or folly."[1] Further, "misspelling" implies error, whereas these respellings are obviously intentional. I propose "Significant respelling", by analogy to significant names in fiction—i.e., names that evoke character-traits, such as Oliver Martext (incompetent priest) and Malvolio (ill-willed steward) in Shakespeare. J. D. Crutchfield | Talk 16:27, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Reference

  1. ^ Merriam-Webster on-line dictionary, "Satire", http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/satire. Retrieved 27 February 2014.

Should "satiric" be spelled "satirical"?

A satiric is something satirical itself. That is, satiric is a noun. I believe satirical serves more properly for use in the article's title, and that it should be moved to Satirical misspelling. X-Fi6 (talk) 05:34, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

The noun is satire. The adjective is either satiric or satirical, but Merriam-Webster prefers the former. See "Satiric". J. D. Crutchfield | Talk 16:34, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia isn't the Book of Lists

Do bear in mind that Wikipedia articles are intended to educate, not to catalogue. The article should provide enough examples to convey an understanding of the phenomenon, and should list some of the most important instances, but it should not attempt to include every possible example, or even every possible category of examples.

J. D. Crutchfield | Talk 16:44, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Sig Runes, Swastika, Hammer & Sickle

...are these really misspellings? These are not characters in any alphabet (except maybe, maybe the Sig Rune); rather, they're the replacement of letters with similar pictures. It's just like when a company uses a logo that replaces a letter with a picture that looks like it (like the "c" in PacMan being replaced with a PacMan). I'm removing these sections, unless someone disagrees? Korossyl (talk) 20:04, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

A swastika can replace an x, as in Nixon or Texas (as in "Texas Aryans") -- but they did it themselves, so it is not satirical. I am surprised to have not seen it in "Ku Klux Klan", in view of the Klan sharing the same bigotry as Nazis.

Use of the sig runs in entities related to the Schutzstaffel is deliberate and hence not satirical.Pbrower2a (talk) 16:18, 6 March 2015 (UTC)

Unrelated?

In the 1960s and early 1970s in the United States, leftists sometimes used Amerika rather than "America" in referring to the United States.[1] It is still used as a political statement today.[2] It is likely that this was originally an allusion to the German spelling of America, and intended to be suggestive of Nazism, a hypothesis that the Oxford English Dictionary supports. It may additionally have been an allusion to the title of Franz Kafka's 1927 novel Amerika.

Why would it be a Kafka reference? Seems like original research, so I'm removing it for now. Feel free to add it back if you can offer reasoning or a reliable source. 85.217.48.27 (talk) 11:27, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

America with a K is clearly unsatiric when it refers to the Kafka novel. Such allows differentiation between Kafka's novel and many other references to the United States of America. Other uses of America with a K are potentially satiric or derogatory, as in the name of the miniseries Amerika in which the United States has been taken over by the Soviet Union.Pbrower2a (talk) 17:54, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

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Euro?

All the currency examples involve dollars and pounds. Surely someone somewhere must have used the euro symbol this way... --Guy Macon (talk) 11:55, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

How about the notorious Formula One personality Bernie €cc£e$tone? Mr Larrington (talk) 06:26, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

Hammer and Sickle replacing C

See this and this as examples. This seems to be a very common reference to media outlets accused of left-wing bias, e.g. "☭NN", "NB☭". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:BCA6:8300:657E:AB5D:E97E:9222 (talk) 03:11, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

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Talking in phoneme? I think this is satiric misspelling.

DIs Iz m0noUntoUn spi:tS (reference) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.201.34.216 (talk) 06:25, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

"Wikkkipedia" listed at Redirects for discussion

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"$teve Ba££mer" listed at Redirects for discussion

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"PSinux" listed at Redirects for discussion

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