Talk:San Marino in the Eurovision Song Contest 2008

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:San Marino in the Eurovision Song Contest 2008/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

   The odd redundant word etc. I performed a copyedit, and it should be fine now. My only concern is that the WP:LEAD is very short. Even if the article is sparse, do not hesitate to make a decent lead. In particular, there is nothing on the selection and after the contest-sections. The lead should be at least twice, perhaps three times, the length.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   Ref 32 is published on day 0? Is date lacking, or is it a typo?

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail: On hold; longer lead = good article. Arsenikk ^(talk) 09:27, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Sims and I addressed the concerns. Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 19:39, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

1. Looks great. Congratulations with a good article. Arsenikk ^(talk) 22:01, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

GA Reassessment

This discussion is transcluded from Talk:San Marino in the Eurovision Song Contest 2008/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the reassessment.

I have decided to reassess this article as it it is so poorly written and sourced. Jezhotwells (talk) 13:44, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Checking against GA criteria

In order to uphold the quality of Wikipedia:Good articles, all articles listed as Good articles are being reviewed against the GA criteria as part of the GA project quality task force. While all the hard work that has gone into this article is appreciated, unfortunately, as of July 5, 2009, this article fails to satisfy the criteria, as detailed below. For that reason, the article has been delisted from WP:GA. However, if improvements are made bringing the article up to standards, the article may be nominated at WP:GAN. If you feel this decision has been made in error, you may seek remediation at WP:GAR.

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose):

   • 1st sentence of Lead: San Marino participation in the Eurovision Song Contest in 2008, marking its debut in the long-running international contest. Completely ungrammatical.
   • last sentence, Lead: After participating for its first time, San Marino withdrew from the 2009 contest due to financial difficulties at SMRTV, having originally submitted its application for participation. Very poorly phrased, suggest Although San Marino applied to participate in the 2009 contest, they withdrew due to to financial difficulties at SMRTV.
   • 1st sentence of Background: 2008 was San Marino's debut at the Eurovision Song Contest. Radiotelevisione della Repubblica di San Marino (SMRTV) announced in November 2007 that it was considering entering the Eurovision Song Contest for the first time in 2008, all depending of the share holders of San Marino RTV. Ungrammatical.
   • 3rd sentence: SMRTV, however, officially announced its participation at the Eurovision Song Contest 2008, held in Belgrade, Serbia How could they announce their participation at the contest? Surely several months beforehand?
   • Selection process: SMRTV announced that it would select the first Sammarinese entry through an internal selection process. This is a repeat of the last sentence of the previous section.
   • they stated that they are "a new way of thinking, born by anger and the will to react [to what] each individual carries in their ego". Clumsy, suggest replace they are with they have, they stand for, they embody. Also note that the cited source, ESCtoday, has the quote "a new way of thinking, born by anger and the will to react that each individual carries in their ego". Quotes should not be re-worded.
   • At Eurovision: Since San Marino debuted at the Eurovision Song Contest 2008, it was not guaranteed a spot in the final like those of the "Big Four" or the winner of the previous year. Clumsy, suggest something like As only the "Big Four" and the winner of the previous contest are guaranteed a place at the final, San Marino had to qualify through a semi-final.
   • So, on 28 January 2008, the European Broadcasting Union held a special draw to determine which semi-final San Marino would participate in. Suggest On 28 January 2008, the European Broadcasting Union held a special draw to determine in which semi-final San Marino would participate. Was thsi a special draw just for San Marino? If not, then suggest simply "Follwing the draw held by the European Broadcasting Union on 28 January 2008, San Marino was allocated a place in the first semi-final, held on 20 May 2008.
   • Semi-final: A blond female ballet dancer was also part of the performance and wore a long flowing white dress. Female blondes have an "e".
   • After Eurovision: It had been rumoured that SMRTV would withdraw from the 2009 contest due to poor results in their debut attempt, however, SMRTV rebuked that claim and confirmed its interest in the 2009 contest. In the end, SMRTV withdrew from the 2009 contest, having earlier applied to enter. This was not due to the poor results of the previous year, but to financial difficulties faced by SMRTV. These sentences need merging to produce a coherent paragraph.

   • So some work on prose required. Jezhotwells (talk) 14:10, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

1. b (MoS):

   • Complies sufficiently. Jezhotwells (talk) 14:11, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references):

   • Reference #1 ESCtoday, cited source = OGAE Italy, which is a fan site at {http://oage0.tripod.com/}. Not a reliable source. Does this support the statement that it was considering entering the Eurovision Song Contest for the first time in 2008, all depending of the share holders of San Marino RTV? No it doesn't!
   • Reference #2 Oikiotimes, cites {http://www.sanmarinortv.sm/} and ESCtoday, so where is the San Marino TV article? (This is supposedly supporting the same statement as above)
   • Reference #3 ESCtoday: supporting Half of the stock of SMRTV at the time belonged to Radiotelevisione Italiana (RAI), the Italian broadcaster which withdrew from the contest in 1997. SMRTV, however, officially announced its participation at the Eurovision Song Contest 2008, held in Belgrade, Serbia Source ESCtoday??? Best find original source at san marino TV or in the local media.
   • Reference #4 Oikiotimes, supporting the same statement - where is the San Marino TV article?
   • Reference #5 from the European Broadcasting Union (hurray). Statement supported is As the Sammarinese broadcaster of the event, it was SMRTV's job to organize a process to select the country's entrant. Where is this supported by {http://www.eurovision.tv/page/history/by-country/country?country=53}?
   • Reference #6, supporting For its first Eurovision appearance, SMRTV sought to host an internal selection process and A jury, headed by singer Little Tony, was appointed to select the entry from a pool of songs submitted by those interested; the deadline for songs to be submitted was set at 25 February 2008.. ESCtoday cites STV, presumably meaning Sanmarinortv.sm and possibly this item: "Il 20, 22 e 24 Maggio, a Belgrado in Serbia si terrà la 53a edizione di Eurovision Song Contest. La Repubblica di San Marino partecipa per la prima volta, e a rappresentarla sono stati selezionati i Miodio con la canzone Complice. Alle selezioni sammarinesi hanno partecipato alcuni artisti della Repubblica. Li conosciamo meglio in queste interviste realizzate in studio da Lia Fiorio." No mention of the deadline or the appointment of the jury or "Little Tony".
   • Reference #7, Oikiotimes, but where is the San Marino TV news item? as it stands unverifiable.
   • Reference #8, oikiotimnes links to {http://www.eurovision-spain.com/}???
   • Reference #9, ESCtoday quotes ESCtoday???
   • Reference #10, ESCtoday quotes ESCtoday???
   • Reference #11, oikiotimes cites Wikipedia (Not an RS) and BIT{http://www.bit.fieramilanoexpocts.it/?id=OC02NDAtei1FTkcg} which soesn't have this information.
   • Reference #12 quotes ESCtoday and music23 which appears to be an Italian music agency. The information is not on their site at {http://www.23music.com/english/home_english.htm}
   • Reference #13 ESCtoday quotes ESCtoday
   • Reference #14 oikiotimes quotes ESCtoay, oikotimes and Michele Imberti at myspace which doesn't have this information.
   • Reference #15 ESCtoday quotes ESCtoday and fan site OGAE Italy (see note on reference #1
   • Reference #16 ESCtoday quotes ESCtoday and Eurovision tv, which is where you may find the information, so that should be used as the RS.
   • Reference #17 oikiotimes as above (reference #16)
   • Reference #18 ESCtoday cites ESCtoday but this information should be at the EBU site.
   • Reference #19 oikiotimes cites oiktotimes greece, but this information should be available at San Marino TV or the San Marino and Italian press.
   • Reference #20 appears to be a link to a broadcast in the past which is not verifiable, better to use the EBU site if the information is there.
   • Reference #21 ESCtoday cites ESCtoday. No mention of the long flowing white dress.
   • Reference #22 ESCtoday cites eurovision tv so that should be the citation
   • Reference #23 ESCtoday cites TVR (presumabl;y Romanain TV, so that should be the citation or perhaps the Romanian press.
   • Reference #24 oikiotimes cites Myspace which is a selfpublished blog
   • Reference #25 ESCtoday cites Blic, whatever that is. Perhaps the information may be found there.
   • Reference #26 oikiotimes cites Eurovisionary, another fan site
   • Reference #27 ESCtoday cites eurovision tv so that should be the reference.
   • Reference #28 ESCtoday cites Eurovision tv so the information should be there.
   • Reference #29 oikiotimes cites {http://www.whowillwinesc.com/} another fan site and Eurovision.tv which is where the material should be sourced.
   • Reference #30 oikotimes cites oikotimes
   • Reference #31 ESCtoday cites esctoday and san marino tv which is where the material should be sourced
   • Reference #32 oikiotimes cites oikotimes
   • Reference #33 ESCtoday cites ESCtoday
   • Reference #34 ESCtoday cites ESCtoday
   • Reference #35 ESCtoday cites ESCtoday

   • So the referencing is a mess. No RS, lots of fansites quoting each other. Yet the information should be available on the websites of broadcasters, the press and eurovision. Jezhotwells (talk) 15:07, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

   b (citations to reliable sources):

   • No, see above

   c (OR):

   • Possibly unless RS are found

3. It is broad in its scope.

   a (major aspects):

   b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):

   • tagged and licensed

   b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   • captioned

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

   • I consider the above concerns to be serious and am delisting the article as theer is so much that needs to be fixed. Jezhotwells (talk) 15:07, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

• I have completed fixing the points made in problems with the prose. Sims2aholic8 (Michael) (talk) 15:18, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:San Marino in the Eurovision Song Contest 2008/GA3. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 11:23, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

I have reviewed a few of your song articles in the past and will now take on one of your Eurovision participation articles for the first time ever! --K. Peake 11:23, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Infobox and lead

• Infobox looks good!
• "at the 2007 contest." → "in the 2007 contest." with the target, but this part is not written in the body; probably mention in the At Eurovision section
• "by the broadcaster to" → "by SMRTV to"
• Wikilink music video
• "interviews to the press" → "interviews from the band to the press"
• "to the competition." → "to the Eurovision Song Contest 2008."
• "The song was performed in" → "San Marino performed fifth in"
• Target first semi-final to Eurovision Song Contest 2008#Semi-final 1
• Remove Greece and Andorra from the lead because it is notable here what countries awarded the points

Background

• Remove national broadcaster introduction since having it in the lead is enough
• Wikilink Eurovision Song Contest
• "the Italian broadcaster which" → "the broadcaster of Italy which" with the target
• Target 1997 to Eurovision Song Contest 1997, but this sentence is not sourced
• "to take part, and" → "to take part and"
• "stated that the country's motivation" → "stated that San Marino's motivation"
• "to the nation as" → "to the nation, as"
• "it even exists."" → "it even exists"." per MOS:QUOTE

Before Eurovision

Internal selection

• Img looks good!
• "entries until 25 February 2008." → "entries for the Eurovision Song Contest 2008 until 25 February." with the wikilink
• "were submitted, and an" → "were submitted and an"
• "Alessandro Capicchioni, Marco Capicchioni and" → "Alessandro and Marco Capicchioni and"
• "and selected the entry." → "and selected San Marino's entry."
• "stated that they sought" → "stated they chose"
• "from our tradition."" → "from our tradition"."
• Wikilink Miodio instead
• "Miodio consisted of" → "Miodio consists of"
• Remove target on Nicola Della Valle
• "they stated that they" → "the band stated that they"
• "those from other" → "those from different"

Promotion

• "a music video of the song was" → "a music video was" with the wikilink
• "the band stated that they" → "Miodio stated that they"
• "up to the contest." → "up to the Eurovision Song Contest 2008."

At Eurovision

• Target grand final to Eurovision Song Contest 2008#Final
• "to the Eurovision rules," → "to the Eurovision rules at the time," for context
• Target Big Four to Big Four (Eurovision) per MOS:LINK2SECT
• Target the countries in brackets to their respective Eurovision articles
• Img looks good!
• The neighbourly and diaspora parts are not sourced; comments don't work for backing things up
• "for the 2008 contest" → "for the Eurovision Song Contest"
• "the nation assigned" → "the nation was assigned"
• Target Moldova and Belgium to their articles for 2008's contest
• "Though only participating in the first semi-final, SMRTV" the rest of the sentence is sourced, but the ref doesn't back up the broadcaster as being the ones who announced this
• "the nineteen countries." → "the 19 countries." per MOS:NUM
• Do not use speech marks for emotional impact since it is not a quote within the source, but keep the attribution
• Remove the speech marks for the following quote per above
• "soul of the group." → "soul of Miodio."

Voting

• "in the first semi-final," → "in the first semi-final of the Eurovision Song Contest 2008,"
• "inspire the crowd, and" → "inspire the crowd and"
• "placing it last of" → "placing the nation last of"
• "Roberto Moretti was the Sammarinese" → "Moretti was the Sammarinese"

Points awarded to San Marino

• Good

Points awarded by San Marino

• Good

References

• Copyvio score looks very good at 21.3%
• Archive all of these by using the tool
• eurofestivalnews.com → Eurofestival News on refs 2 and 24, targeting to Eurovision (network) on the former
• Remove bbc.co.uk from ref 4
• WP:OVERLINK of San Marino RTV on refs 7, 9, 17, 18 and 26
• Add (EBU) in brackets for the publisher of refs 11, 28 and 29, plus remove the wikilink on the latter two of the three
• Remove Eurovision.tv from ref 13 and wikilink on European Broadcasting Union, but add (EBU) in brackets

Final comments and verdict

•  On hold until all of the issues are fixed, but tell me if you are unsure about anything! --K. Peake 16:46, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

@Kyle Peake: I have made the changes outlined above, though I have the following questions:

• Did you want me to keep rules of the contest "at the time"? I think you wrote them reversed above. I removed "at the time" just in case it was what you meant.
• Eurofestival News is not affiliated with Eurovision Network, so I didn't add that link to the reference.
• I felt weird removing "Roberto" from Moretti in the voting section. Will readers remember who he is from earlier on?
• The archive links all worked for me (I made them within the past three days). I swapped out the two you called out though just in case. Let me know if you still have issues. I find that it takes a long time for the pages to load.
• I added the links to the country names to go to their articles, but in the past I was told to remove those per WP:EASTEREGG. Do you think it's ok or should those phrases be reworded so that the targets are more obvious?

Thanks for reviewing! Grk1011 (talk) 20:32, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Grk1011 The phrasing "at the time" should be included because the rules have since changed, you have introduced him earlier in the short article so use the surname, sorry about the archive comments I was going to remove those ones after they did work for me but forgot to delete the comments and no they are fine in the suggested manner. --K. Peake 21:29, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Ok, great. I restored "at the time". Should be all set then! Grk1011 (talk) 22:11, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

Grk1011 ✓ Pass, all good apart from no mention of when the country performed in the lead which I added for you; sorry about the Albania typo, I'm just used to reviewing those articles. --K. Peake 06:21, 26 January 2021 (UTC)