Talk:Sam Spence

Controversy section

Re: deletion of Controversy. I beg to differ: His compositions are direct lifts from many film scores. The sources are not merely opinions of score enthusiasts—several in fact, with conclusions independently arrived—but factual note-by-note transpositions, with barely disguised alterations to rhythm and cadence to badly cloak its similarity to the original source. POV would involve conjecturing (probably correctly) that such an "homage" was intended to avoid paying royalties (substantial, although you would think the NFL could afford them) to the original composers from whose work Spence "borrows." —TashTish 15:16, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Re: deletion of Controversy. Claims of Spence's "direct lifts from film scores" may be a common opinion - one I share, in fact - but they are still that: opinion, not fact. Even now you're making unsubstantiated claims. To wit: "several in fact, with conclusions independently arrived"? (Please give links to these people and where they've said and/or written such opinions.) "but factual note-by-note transpositions" with barely disguised alterations to rhythm and cadence to badly (again, opinion) cloak its similarity to the original source. (Please list the musicologists who have made such claims. If you are a musicologist yourself, please explain these similarities.) You even admit your own bias when you write this: "POV would involve conjecturing (probably correctly)" Conjecture is precisely what you're written; that you say it's 'probably correct' is an example of your bias.

If you wish to argue Mr. Spence's merits, or lack thereof, please relegate them elsewhere. Please don't just spout off opinion as fact.- Agentx42 (talk) 21:44, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

[This is in response to a message left on my discussion page, similar but not identical to the above:]

First of all, thank you for writing to me, sincerely.

Second, I have no personal axe to grind against Sam Spence. In fact, I love the guy's work. I also happen to realize that many of his compositions are ripoffs of established film scores. Now you're correct, my opinion means bupkus. However, two independent reviewers do something of an authority make; plus, I think it's a topic interesting and informative enough to publish.

Third, you have much merit to your criticism. My first edit was subjective POV (point-of-view) at its worst, and very close to slander. Your deletion brought that to my attention. Further, your second complaint gave me further food for thought: My second edit still contained misleading statements, as you painstakingly described. I re-edited my contribution to address your issues: I made clear these are two and only two sources, and there is both positive and negative views on some selections of his body of work. I hope you find it more agreeable, if not totally acceptable.

Fourth, I believe you meant to put your differences in the section of "Sam Spence's" entry. I've responded in kind here as well; whether you choose to paste your previous message to me here I leave to you. (If I'm making yet another assumption, consider myself chastised.)

Just one more thing: I consider myself reasonable, so don't feel you need to get antagonistic. I can take good criticism, and if you hold my section intolerable, I would not be insulted if you deleted it again; life will go on. Just consider improving it versus sacking it. Once again, thanks, in all sincerity. –TashTish (talk) 21:56, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

External links modified

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