Talk:Salah/Archive 1

Archive 1

Time of Salat

Although the time is important in salat, the sentence "Being unsure invalidates even if the time turns out correct" maybe the view of one or some of the schools, not all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.168.173.201 (talk) 19:03, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Method of calculation

Would someone like to add (I will try as well) to add a section about the methods of calculation? I know there is ISNA (using 15degrees for Fajr) and some Egyptian one that uses 19.5 both using Sha'afi jurisprudence... there are about 5 main ones in total. What are the differences between schools? What are the differences inside the single school allowed? How do they choose their angle? Let's see if we can answer questions like that. gren 00:42, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

if you have ideas start the section here

The way in which prayer times are calculated vary from tradition to tradition.

Some external links follow

[1]

[2]

I would be willing to do it, but I will have time in early 2010. But I think that this would be more appropriate in salat times. Arif Zaman (talk) 09:42, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Service

How is prayer a "service"? What does "service" mean here? --Yodakii 08:19, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Service is NOT the right word. It comes from Roman Catholic Christianity, where the priest "serves" mass. Attending a mass is then attending a service. This has been imported into Protestantism, so that a "service" means a congregation meeting for prayer, hymns, and a sermon. That is completely wrong for salah, which is sometimes performed in congregation, but possibly more often performed alone. It might be appropriate for Friday gatherings, which are communal. Zora 23:12, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

In Roman Catholicism, the priest *celebrates* mass. A service can refer to the mass, or any religious gathering where believers come together to serve God. Danwaggoner (talk) 18:10, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Sunnah Salah

I've added a new section detailing the different Sunah Salahs. Could people please look through and correct any factual errors that may have slipped in? Also please expand and add Salahs I may have missed. If someone can do tables nicely then please include a table of the Salahs showing number of raka'at for Fard and Sunnah. Also, a section on the times of day salah is NOT permissible is needed, if anyone has this info. Zunaid 11:18, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Waqt?

Why don't translate waqt into time? I think its literal meaning is time, and in this case it's just a quantification of time.Aditthegrat 09:53, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup of article

The article could be cleaned up by briefly mentioning the types of optional salat and have 'main article' links shooting off where the prayers can be discussed at length at leisure. If nobody minds, I'd like to have a go at this. MP (talk) 09:45, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Just found this, which may also be useful: Types of salat. MP (talk) 15:08, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I've decided to work on my sandbox version of this article. I have a few queries:

• For the list of nafl prayers, should we state, for example, 'Salat al-Tarawih' or just 'Tarawih' and then have a main article link going off to Tarawih ?

• In the main articles for each prayer, at present, there does not seem to be things like, for example, 'Salat al-Fajr', but just 'Fajr' for the definition; should both be included ? This impacts on the first point above ...

MP (talk) 10:57, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Other Issues may affect Muslims in Space that are not Salat related. grazon 22:50, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Changes made and changes suggested

I reworded a little in a few spots and largely for the sake of clarity and flow. I moved the section on performing salat up so that it falls before the list of optional prayers, simply because it makes more sense to give the information on the core of the subject first and only then to go into supererogatory prayer information. I'd have done more, but didn't really want to step on anyone's toes. Therefore, suggestions:

• Additions: This article says a lot about "what," but very little about "why." A section on the place of prayer in the lives and belief structure of muslims, about what is said about the importance of prayer in the Qur'an, about where the structure of prayer comes from, and so on, would probably be useful. Also, since much of what is permissable/forbidden/etc. related to prayer is from particular hadith, it would be nice to have more references.

• The section on wudu: This could be significantly shortened, and my own inclination would be to eliminate the portion on the use of sand, or at least the parenthasied part of that section. There is a page on wudu which is more appropriate for getting into these details -- in the interest of readability and relevance here, I think it would be better to mention that it is a ritual cleansing process, the reasons for it being considered integral to the prayer, and to effectively leave it at that.

• Terminology: I changed a little here and there, but overall I feel this article sometimes uses Arabic terms in a such a way as might make it difficult for people unfamiliar with the terms to fully understand what is being said. It might make it more accessible to give the Arabic term and its meaning once and to use the English thereafter, rather than the reverse.

You state the problem clearly. Technical (or Arabic) terms should be explained when first used in an article. The meaning is rarely obvious from the context - unless you are an Arabic speaker, or already familiar with the terms.

I'm not as certain that you need to use English terms throughout - so long as the terms you do use are explained, the article would still make sense to new readers. - Paul 03:45, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

• Optional prayers: I won't do it myself, but I really feel that these should be moved off entirely onto a sub-page -- it is very long for the main page.

I'll come back and make some changes if no one has any particular thoughts as to the above. --M. Landers 08:26, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I m new here. So I don't know much about editing. Could someone compare (using diagrams) the timing of Salat of the different schools of Islam (a circular diagram: http://www.ummah.net/astronomy/saltime/) Verycuriousboy (talk) 14:18, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Plans for major rewrite

If nobody minds, I would like to have a go at a major rewrite of this article soon. I have been working on my sandbox version, as has Liquesce. Our versions are very different from each other (as well as the current article), so there is scope for huge discussion. I would like to have a go at incorporating Liquesce's and my versions. My plans for the article are described in the talk page of my sandbox version. As has been suggested by a few people here, I also think that the optional prayers section(s) should be made into a new article (I have generalised this notion somewhat - described in the talk page mentioned above). MP (talk) 22:56, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

I've decided to stick my neck out and go for the major rewrite. I've tried to keep as much of the original version as I can, whilst trying to maintain a compromise between the 3 different versions referred to above - in fact, nothing has really been deleted (just added and rejigged) and the main differences are:

• A better classification of salat into 4 types.
• Shortened sections on Nafl and Sunnah salat considerably (with main article links). Didn't have main article links on Fard and Wajib salat, as they are short enough already.
• New (as yet empty) section on 'Purpose of salat' and new sections on 'Preparation for salat', 'Supplications after salat' and 'Invalidation of prayer' (which should be renamed 'Invalidation of salat').
• A few more links (some of the links may be redundant - will explore later).

Comments appreciated. MP (talk) 18:39, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Keep up the good work - but Maghrib salat?

The page is looking good. Keep up the discussions and if necessary, the debating. This will ensure a high quality, objective page, and will serve as a good tool for Muslims and/or Dawah for non-Muslims on this widely used website.

My question is regarding the times of prayer. You (plural) have stated that it is permissible until Isha to pray Maghrib. Under the Hanafi school, it should be read as quick as possible. But under any school, it is agreed upon the hadith which narrated by Tirmizi, reported by Ibn Abbas that when Angel Jibreel (as) took Muhammad (saw) through the salat on two different days, in order to teach him the times, on the first day he prayed all the salat on the earliest part of their permissble periods, and intentionally on the second day at the end of their respective permissble periods - however, Jibraeel (as) lead Maghrib salat at the same time on both days, indicating that the traditional view of the end of the twilight period (which by definition could be until around the following Fajr) is in fact a very limited period (at least with respect to the other salats' permissible intervals). --The-pessimist 04:05, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Although this Hadith is 'Sahih' and it is agreed by many scholars that it shows us that delaying Maghrib is Makrooh. However the question then arises as to when does Maghrib end? If someone is unable to pray Maghrib at its earliest time, when can they exactly stop praying Maghrib? The simplest answer is that you can pray Maghrib until Isha, because as it has been stated in Hadith you have given, Maghrib is at the end of twilight, which can be until Fajr in some cases, but this cannot be, you cannot join Fajr with another prayer, and would mean you would be able to pray Maghrib, Isha and Fajr at the same time. So it is common sense to state you can pray it until Isha. I hope my reasoning is correct, if I can find any Hadith about Maghrib I will post them on here. There is a good source of information at this site [3] M2k41 15:24, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

What about Muslims living near the poles?

I highly doubt Muslims living above the Arctic Circle or below the Antarctic Circle (few in number as they may be) are required to only perform ten prayers a year, so what special rules, if any, apply to them? — Ливай 05:52, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I believe they have to follow the prayer times of nearest place where the sun still sets. But don't quote me on that. M2k41 14:52, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

You're right M2k41 - I can't cite it but Sh. Abdal Hakim Murad has said as much in one of his essays at http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/ahm/default.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eteb3 (talk • contribs) 15:02, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

This has been covered Alhamdullah! There is a hadith that metions the anti christ and a phenomenon where the day lasts much longer than a day and some one asked the Prophet, may God bless him, approximately when should we say the prayers? and the answer was approximately at the normal times meaning that the times are also relative to our routines. Please google this for the accurate and complete hadith. Salaam! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.127.245.252 (talk) 00:40, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Salat or prayer ?

The article uses 'salat' and 'prayer' interchangeably. Should we aim for consistency ? I see 3 options:

(1) Use 'salat' throughout.

(2) Use 'prayer' throughout.

(3) Use 'salat' and 'prayer'.

Can we agree on one of these options ? Once salat is defined, we should probably use 'prayer' throughout (this being an English encyclopedia), but maybe to avoid boredom, it would be prudent to use both (as is similarly done in Black Stone). MP (talk) 16:52, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Salat versus prayer poll

• Define salat and use prayer afterwards - this is an English Wikipedia. But we should make sure that the Arabic word (?) salat is defined with all it's connotations. MP (talk) 19:35, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Prayer means salat or dua. So, I don't think it should always say prayer to mean salat. Of course it can be used sometimes. But prayer can mean supplication (dua), and that is completely different. - MaryA756 15:23, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Sorry I'm new here and have added the Terminology section before reading this. I agree with Mary A756. Eteb3 (talk) 15:03, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Performing salat

Regarding the 'Performing salat' section, I propose that the current section be shortened and a main article link to Performing salat be made. Reasons:

• The current section looks too long and cludgy; more specifically, the supplications etc. take up too much space and there is just too much detail.

• There are actually minor variations on how salat is performed in different locations (even in the same country) and these should be documented too. For example, in some places in India, an extra supplication is made after the taslim.

I can see huge potential in creating such a robust article, especially as regards the second point made above. The only problem is that getting reliable sources may be a problem (I don't think that first-hand experience counts as 'reliable'). MP (talk) 19:32, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

According to the Quran

According to the Quran

According to the Quran there are 3 daily prayers. These are shown in Sura Hud (Arabic سورة هود) is the 11th chapter of the Qur'an. In 114.ayat, by (A. YUSUF ALİ) translation

And establish regular prayers at the two ends of the day and at the approaches of the night: for those things, that are good remove those that are evil: that is a reminder for the mindful:

(BY M.H. SHAKIR)

And keep up prayer in the two parts of the day and in the first hours of the night; surely good deeds take away evil deeds this is a reminder to the mindful.

I hope this information will be added to this article :) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Astrolog (talk • contribs) 12:23, 25 January 2007 (UTC).

Jumu'ah

The Jumu'ah page was recently moved to Friday prayer. I'd like to invite editors to comment on the Friday prayer talk page over whether the current location of the article is okay or not. (p.s. please don't comment here, let's keep the discussion in one place.) Zunaid©® 11:05, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Qur'anic readings

Which verses from the Qur'an are recited during prayer besides the first surah? Is there a set plan for them or can anybody pick whatever he or she likes? -- 77.7.128.245 17:49, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

You can choose any you like. I heard a sheikh say that the verses used in the first rakah shoudl be longer than the verses in the second. But I don't suggest including that level of detail here. Eteb3 (talk) 15:05, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Salat of Quran

It is a different article. It should not be merged into salah. It has different ideology, concept & contents. "Salat of Quran" is different from "salah".

203.128.22.96 04:00, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Can you show any reliable sources that discuss this ideology? From looking at the article, it seems to be original research. → AA ^(talk) — 07:54, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Looks like it's more or less entirely original research to me. I also noticed that all the external links are to Qur'an Alone sites, which makes me think the page could have been created just to push a specific point of view. MezzoMezzo 15:11, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Quranic References

References are Quranic not only Qur'an Alone sites.

Rana Ammar Mazhar 18:01, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

More articles

There is an article (which used to be called 'prayer times') which I have renamed salat times. It still needs a lot of work. Should there also be a new article on Salat according to the Madhhab similar to Wudu according to the four Madhhab (this latter of which should probably be renamed - cut out the 4) ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mpatel (talk • contribs) 15:03, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Jargon

I have added the {{Cleanup-jargon}} template to the article, because the article contains a lot of jargon. This makes it very hard to read for outsiders, for people who are not well versed in Islamic terminology. This begins in #Preparation, although the terms are explained somewhat there. An example, from #Witr: "Witr is performed after the salah of isha'a. Some Muslims consider Witr wajib while others consider it optional. However, Witr is most commonly offered with three raka'ah. ... To end prayers for the night after Isha'a, the odd numbered raka'ah must have the niyyah of "Wajib-ul-Lail", which is mandatory to "close" one's salat for that day." Generally, the only way to find out what a term means is by clicking the wikilink. Obviously it is great that there are wikilinks and that we have so many articles on this topic, but if there is no other way than to click the link, we run the risk of providing too little context and information to the reader. Aecis^Brievenbus 10:07, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

PLEASE make this article readable. It is not supposed to be instruction on how to perform prayers, it is to explain about these prayers. When every other word prevents you from understanding what is meant to be said, the article as an encyclopaedic article fails miserably. Please explain words like ablution, supplication .. Etymology is not the most important thing, it is an after thought.. given such relevance prevents people from reaching the parts that are informative. GerardM (talk) 08:55, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Agreed this reads as instructions TO members of the religion (which is fine but not the purpose of an Encyclopaedic article), and it not particularly well written regardless. I will try to edit in the near future. collounsbury (talk) 12:26, 28 October 2008 (UTC).

Agreed. I hope to make some changes along the lines of the changes I did to the first article earlier today. Any comments? Eteb3 (talk) 15:08, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree, I can't follow this article at all. I have to memorize dozens of words I've never heard before, because after being explained once they become used regularily, though the word is something fairly easily translated. "Prayer", "sunrise prayer", "voluntary prayer", "ritual ablution"... Why can't these English words be used, apart from the introduction of the translation? -- AvatarMN (talk) 09:39, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Three or four years after it was first mentioned, this article still has all the same problems. For a non-Muslim and non-Arabic speaker, it is extremely difficult to follow. It's full of jargon. Terms are introduced with little or no context or definition. The article reads as a "how-to." Statements that seem to be specific to particular viewpoints are not referenced or explained as such, but rather written as if they are universal--for someone without a Ph.D. in Islamic studies, it's impossible to sort out what is individual opinion, what is specific to a very limited theological school of thought, and what, if anything, is universally accepted as orthodox. I cannot imagine how this article was rated B-class. Holy (talk) 02:59, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Asr in the Evening?

I changed Asr to read afternoon, and not evening, as evening is often is often indicative of the time right before or after dinner, which is very subjective by country, but is usually 18:00 to 22:00.Brinerustle (talk) 09:17, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Zuhr?

The articale speaks of Dhuhr and Zuhr. Can this be unified? Is it the same? The linked article does not explicitly state Zuhr as possible transscription (just starting with z. --90.152.233.4 (talk) 20:47, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

I think this is something for the whole wikiproject Islam. I strongly suggest using the Library of Congress system of transliteration, and transliterating from Arabic not from Urdu, Persian or Turkish. See Romanization of Arabic That would mean ظ at the beginning becomes Z with a dot beneath (anyone know the asci?) Eteb3 (talk) 15:16, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Sunnah before Maghrib

Can somebody provide evidence for 4 raka'ah sunnah before Maghrib? Which school is this from and what is the evidence for the school. This is the first time I have heard of it. Thank you. M2k41 (talk) 18:41, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Salat according to quran

Doesn't the concept of Salat have a wider context according to the quran and the hadiths? As in practicing ones religion? Faro0485 (talk) 22:59, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Reciting intention for prayer "in the heart"

The words '...in the heart' are unnecessary and suggest the article is more lenient to a specific school or creed (Aqidah) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Huss4in (talk • contribs) 18:40, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Time taken

I would be interested to learn how much time in a day it takes the faithful to perform these prayers and associated activities. Does the time that needs to be set aside vary from area to area? Have there been any studies as to the effects of having to rise very early and go to bed quite late (in some areas)? Albatross2147 (talk) 00:48, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

Extensive copyedit

I have just spent around two hours completely reworking this article, including compressing the information given in the last few sections. (Quranic salat, salat timings et. al.) For those who do not wish to go through the article, these are the changes:

• Extensive use of Arabic script replaced with transliteration, translation or Quranic citations.
• Full extracts of Quran replaced with preferable citation forms.
• Quranic salat section largely edited to be succinct, with citations.
• Prayer at mosque/Prayer in congregation sections integrated.
• Most important deed in islam/purpose sections integrated.

The extensive re-write of the Quranic Salat, Salat Timings of Quran, Salat asr and Quran, Non Quranic Salat and Four Salat in One Salat seemed to contain the views of one group or person. They were extremely repetitive and quoted the same verses of the same Surahs. I have carefully gone through and ensure that the coherent arguments were summarized correctly, and they appear th way they do now.

No doubt there will be objections to these edits, please leave them on my talk page or on this talk page, or edit it yourself. Josh 02:34, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

fard and wajib

"Salah may be classified into four categories of obligation: fard, wajib, sunnah and nafl."

Fard and wajib seem to be synonymous both by how they are described in the article and wajib redirects to fard where it is stated they are the same. Are they in fact somehow different, or are there just three categories, or is there a fourth category that was left out? Шизомби (talk) 18:35, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Hanafi madhhab makes a distinction between them. I can't cite my sources but have understood that the difference is due to either source of obligation (quran or hadith) or consequences of not doing them - eg, not doing fard makes you not a Muslim, but not doing wajib doesn't. Anyone have more details on this? Eteb3 (talk) 10:29, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Edited since my knowledge has improved in the past nine years:

'Not doing fard' actions does not make you not a Muslim. Rather, many scholars say that to deny that they are obligatory makes you not a Muslim. The difference (for [Hanafi|Hanafis]]) is an epistemological one to do with how the obligation is determined: if it's determined from unimpeachable evidence, then denying the obligation entails denying the Qur'an or the Prophet that attest it. Wajib obligations are slightly less rigorously attested, so there is latitude to deny their being obligatory. Eteb3 (talk) 14:51, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Consistency of spelling

The title says "Salah", while the lead section says "Salat". No explanation is given of the variant spelling and the two are used interchangeably. Regardless of which people think is "correct", the article should really settle on one or the other, the same way we settle on one dialect of English in an article. Failing that, the variation should at least be mentioned and explained. Hairy Dude (talk) 14:35, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

I've added mention in the lead section that these are equivalent terms. I'd move to standardise on salah as this is closer to Arabic usage when not in genetive construct (eg, salat al-maghrib). Plenty of discussion on this towards the top of this talk page. thoughts? Eteb3 (talk) 10:17, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

As mentioned above, in modern Arabic it's common to pronounce the word "ṣalāt" regardless of its position or syntactical function (so not limited to the construct state), though some do say "ṣála". Hence why "Salat" is the more common term in English.--Serafín33 (talk) 21:37, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree with this point of view (to use Salat). It is important to have a uniform spelling of the word. hkernel (talk) 09:18, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Shia prayer on stone

Worth mentioning that Shia's pray on a stone that is made from a natural material as they believe they should pray Salat on a natural Material not unlike the Maaliki Madhaab who also beleive in resting your head on a natural material in soojood. these stones are from the holy place of Karbala where the Prophet's grandson Hussein was killed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.80.113.143 (talk) 06:24, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Historical context

It would be good to have some more detail on how / when these rites developed, what their scriptural basis is etc etc. Presumably they have changed somewhat over the years. For instance in Diarmaid MacCulloch's A History of Christianity, he mentions in passing that ‘to begin with, Muhammad instructed his followers to pray facing Jerusalem, and he only altered the direction of prayer to Mecca after a murderous disagreement with the Jews of Medina’. But I can't see any details of that here, or indeed any relevant section which I might add the information. Thoughts? Widsith (talk) 11:46, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

Time Required?

In regard to this: http://news.yahoo.com/hertz-muslim-workers-failed-break-rules-191831561.html does anyone have a rough estimate of the time required for the major branches of Islam? If anyone has a citation to a reliable source supporting such an estimate, it would be a useful addition to this article. Guy Macon (talk) 20:59, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Qur'anist prayer and Shah Waliullah

In this edit, a reference was inserted four years ago claiming that Shah Waliullah explained Quranist prayer. While it is possible that he might have explained such a thing, I find it doubtful considering that he was a Sunni scholar who lived before the modern day Quranist movement even existed. I cannot view the Scribd file in the referece, though I would definitely prefer to see the original rather than a translation. This seems like an instance of a minority view trying to creep in inaccurate references, though I hope I'm wrong. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:55, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Move?

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 21:37, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

• Salah → Salat – Salat is the more commonly used name is English, as confirmed by Google Ngram Viewer. Khestwol (talk) 18:29, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Support because of the above reason, because this article itself uses "salat", and because no one objected. Khestwol (talk) 14:36, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Islamic prayers - "SAW"

I asked for the page Islamic Prayers (not this one) to be renamed to Islamic prayers. Then realized the latter redirected here. Seems both should point to the same thing. Not sure what to do about that page now the this was done. I'll not look into it more.. See the "See also" there that was added. Maybe this should be reversed. Not sure why that page couldn't stay as Islamic honorifics. Seems more appropriate to my untrained eye..

Possibly merge these pages? comp.arch (talk) 20:45, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Well, this isn't Islamic Prayers, which is a proper noun referring to the name of some novel or association. If Islamic Prayers does redirect here, it should probably go to redirects for deletion as a misleading misspelling. — LlywelynII 13:41, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Move article

This article was moved from "Salah" to "Salat" in 2013 after a few days given for discussion and only one person's input. As has been mentioned many times in the discussion page, it is pronounced "Salah" and is only pronounced "salat" when followed by another word like "Salat-ul-Asr" but the word stands alone as a title of the article. It should be moved back. Sodicadl (talk) 17:14, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Comment: It should be moved to its actual COMMON ENGLISH name: Islamic prayer. (Well, obviously, it's most common name is just "prayer", but Islamic prayer is the NATURALDAB here, not some arbitrary form of the Arabic word). — LlywelynII 13:43, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Comment: Scrolling through the discussion above, I see a possible objection that du'a can also be translated "prayer". (a) It's obviously relatively unimportant that Islamic prayer already redirects here instead of being a dab page between sala/h/t/d/&c. and du'a. (b) This is the PRIMARYTOPIC of Islamic prayer, the 5x-daily ones. (c) Even then, obligatory prayers (Islam) or daily prayers (Islam) is better than the Arabic for the article name. — LlywelynII 13:55, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

• Move: Though Salat is the correct stand-alone form of the word in other languages like Farsi and Urdu, the correct form in Arabic is Salah which is only inflected to Salat when having case marker endings, etc. Salah is more than just prayer in the actual sense of the word prayer (asking for help, thanking God, etc.) Salah is worship and just prayer is Dua. Salah itself includes a series of actions, Duas, praises, etc. I think Islamic prayer should be a DAB page with Dua (asking God for help, thanking, etc.) and Salah (5x daily obligatory worship). —ШαмıQ✍ @ 20:57, 12 October 2015 (UTC)
• Move Salah is the best transliteration of the standalone name in Arabic. Salat may be more common because it is used more often, but Salah and Salat are two different words. --Fauzan^{✆ talk}_{✉ mail} 06:22, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
• Strong Support move to Salah. Even though I was the original !voter who proposed the move to "Salat", I take back my previous input. The correct Arabic word is Salah. Khestwol (talk) 14:48, 13 October 2015 (UTC)
• Comment: This still spelled as "salat" in most navboxes. I've fixed the redirects but not the spelling. If you think there is consensus, please fix the spelling of "salat" to "salah" in navboxes as well. Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 19:55, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Disambig Links

• Hi. Given the page view statistics over an extended time frame, which can be seen here, I am beginning to feel that Mohammed Salah is becoming the primary topic for people named Salah, which means that we have an obligation to make it easier for editors to navigate to his article. While not superseding this article, I feel that it is important that we make it simple for people who land here by accident to navigate to his article, which there is a statistically significant chance they are doing (Notice how the spikes in views correlate directly). As such, to facilitate this, I have added a direct link to his page at the top of this article, rather than sending people burrowing through a disambiguation page. Stormy clouds (talk) 23:09, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

Salat in Babism does not belong here

I've removed the section about salat in Babism as this is a different religion and not relevant to Islamic salat. Whether it deserves its own page is a separate question, given that the religion is a historical curiosity with hardly any members left alive to actually practice it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:BB6:5219:2558:9DD9:30FA:1B81:1BCD (talk) 10:10, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

the Saturated sea

@LlywelynII: Hi again. unfortunately, this article is full of arabic words without translation. In your opinion what should we do to improve it or anything else that you think is Necessary to do? Thanks Saff V. (talk) 14:24, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Well, the main thing is just to remember the WP:READERs. If an English-speaking reader with no Arabic or Islamic background can understand the word from context, that might be fine. For the most part, non-Latin alphabets should always be romanized and foreign terms should always be glossed.

Something like taqiya might be so complicated that the best you can do is just link to its article.

Other things, like salah, are so easy and obvious that they shouldn't be in Arabic at all. I'm already on record saying this page should be moved to Islamic prayer as the WP:COMMON WP:ENGLISH name for this topic. It already redirects here, so there's not any other major form of Islamic prayer it's confused with. It does no one any favors to orientalize or gate-keep the topic. — LlywelynII 19:31, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

I agree with @LlywelynII: about the need to keep English-speaking readers uppermost in the mind of editors, and I like his criterion that unless an English-speaking reader with no Arabic or Islamic background can understand the word from context, it should be translated into English.

I don't mean to undermine that principle by also saying that many Islamic terms are in such common currency in (educated) English that we would be better leaving them in Arabic. 'Hadith' and 'jihad' would be examples imo. I think Llywelyn's point about salah being 'so easy and obvious' is actually an argument to leave it in Arabic - if I understood him (him?) correctly.

That prompts a question from me about which English-speaking readers we should be writing for. Even an elementary school textbook on Islam will introduce, explain, and then use untranslated a number of Arabic terms. That seems sensible in terms of the current practice and usage of academic religious studies: all terms lose something in translation, and so there's a strong argument for not translating - provided adequate explanations are given. I note the wp:english policy says use the word as you would find it in reliable sources (for example other encyclopedias and reference works, scholarly journals, and major news sources) so I would argue for 'salah' even as the article title.

We could call salah 'prayer' - but I feel it's more analogous with the Mass, or a puja (note special terms in each case) as it's a ritual the worshipper bends their will to, rather than the freeform, spontaneous conversation with God that I think 'prayer' connotes.

So I would propose translating & glossing a term the first time it's used, and then using it untranslated.

Undoubtedly there is a lot in this article that wouldn't meet Llywelyn's excellent criterion even then, where unclarities are inadvertently introduced by editors who I presume are steeped deep in Islamic tradition. There are things that could be done: eg, at Salah#Types of prayers, a table could be given translating fard, wajib, etc. But this is a point in case: fard and wajib would both have to be translated 'obligatory'! And at this point I wonder if the article is just getting way too detailed.

Responses appreciated!

Eteb3 (talk) 14:15, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Well, the kind words are appreciated but I do think salah is obviously far closer to prayer—I think it simply is prayer and we're already redirecting Islamic prayer to this article—than to the mass or anything so ornate and liturgical. The Lord's Prayer, the Hail Mary, and monks' psalters already show Xianity is very comfortable with set prayers. The idea that prayer even could be freeform personal conversation is fairly late and very Protestant; it's not remotely the main sense or connotation of the word and doesn't show up at all (e.g.) in its OED definitions. I do think we should simply use the word 'prayer' ('this form of prayer'/'the prayer'/'Islamic prayer'/etc.) through most of the article and mention the Arabic name in the lead. As with Eteb, though, I think we should defer to a wide consensus and look for guidance from scholarly treatments. — LlywelynII 14:30, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

OED is unfortunately paywalled. Can you paste here without breach of copyright, or summarise? (Fair-dealing exception for criticism & review, if you're in the UK?) I'll look at some school & entry-level academic textbooks and see how they deal with it, and feed back here some time soon. - Eteb3 (talk) 17:09, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

The article is in undoubtedly in a bad shape. For now, I'm just going to comment on the title, and in fact just quote from two editions of the Encyclopedia of Islam:

• Ṣalāt, the usual name in Arabic for the ritual prayer or divine service. The translation “prayer” simply is not accurate; the Arabic word duʿāʾ corresponds to the conception prayer. article behind paywall
• Ṣalāt, ritual prayer. Unlike other types of prayer—in particular the prayer of supplication [see duʿāʾ ], the remembrance of the Divine Names [see d̲h̲ikr ] or Ṣūfī confraternities’ litanies [see wird ]—the ṣalāt , principal prayer of Islam, forms part of the ʿibādāt or cultic obligations. article behind paywall

We have separate articles on Dua and Dhikr, which are also in a bad shape. Eperoton (talk) 23:00, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Your comment on Dua and Dhikr prompts me to raise the question of whether the page 'Islamic prayer' shouldn't be a disambiguation page with Salah, Dua, Dhikr etc as routing options there.Eteb3 (talk) 12:31, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

Good point. That shouldn't be controversial for du'a. I've looked through some encyclopedia, and although dhikr is not normally defined as a form of prayer, it is commonly characterized as such in the body of the entries. Eperoton (talk) 03:08, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Done. Eperoton (talk) 03:26, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

@LlywelynII: thanks to answering my question and @Eteb3: I really appreciate you to follow my concern in the article and solved it. But I think the title of the article needs to discuss and if most of involved users would agree, we can alter the title to Islamic ritual prayer. Any Ideas?Saff V. (talk) 13:18, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

I don't see the title "Islamic ritual prayer" used in encyclopedias much, and this also goes for generalist sources like Britannica. By far, the most common title is "salat", and I was thinking about opening an WP:RM to move the article to that title. Eperoton (talk) 23:03, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

I saw that title (Islamic ritual prayer) here.Saff V. (talk) 05:13, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I created that dab page after the discussion above. :) The characterization of salat as "Islamic ritual prayer" is certainly found in RSs, but the phrase is not commonly used in titles of encyclopedia articles. Eperoton (talk) 22:22, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Proportion

Given the tendency of this page to always balloon to become a mind-bogglingly detailed 'how to' guide to salah in multiple schools of Islamic thought, is there a case for some page-specific policies on this talk page, which could be criteria for whether to leave or remove detailed comments? It could also cover the question of Arabic/English terminology, etc. Is there precedent for this on WP? Any other thoughts?Eteb3 (talk) 12:34, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

I don't think we need special policies, we just to take the time to review some good academic sources on the subject and remove all the detail that doesn't reflect their content per WP:PROPORTION. We may also consider spinning out some excessively detailed, but well-sourced sections into separate articles. That said, I should add that I won't have time to undertake this effort in the near future. Eperoton (talk) 03:11, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

I propose that when describing salah, only elements that are universally agreed upon are detailed. The exception, obviously, would be sections explicitly treating differences between schools.

I'll leave this here a while, then absent disagreement I will probably go to a copy of Bidayat al-Mujtahid (see here) and thin the article down to agreed-upon elements. Expressions of support also welcome, as I'm proposing to remove plenty of others' hard work, so it would be nice to have some consensus. Eteb3 (talk) 11:03, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

@Eperoton Thanks, I wasn't aware of that policy. I've moved the three paras above from (yet another) talk page section I'd created, and renamed. Eteb3 (talk) 11:08, 8 November 2019 (UTC)

Opinion

This article needs someone with a better understanding of the Islamic faith to approve/remove important facts. I only helped with basic grammar, punctuation and sentences and needs more help. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Unbeknownboy (talk • contribs) 21:50, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

I think there are a number of Muslim contributors looking at this. I would caveat IMHO it can be the case that practising Muslims, knowledgeable in their own school of thought, unwittingly 'correct' material they think is wrong that is actually valid in another school. This article needs to avoid being a Hanafi, Ismaili, Ibadi, or whatever page: it needs to tread the difficult line between remaining validly general, while acknowledging differences - and all without becoming unusably long (!) Eteb3 (talk) 12:58, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

Transliteration policy

I thought I'd resurrect this topic that gets a periodic mention on this page. I was going to propose my own transliteration policy, and then discovered that there is one already, albeit only a developed proposal.

What are people's thoughts on using these guidelines for the Salah page? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Arabic

I feel they are pretty good, although as has recently been settled upon, "salah" doesn't get translated to "prayer". Any comments from anyone? Eteb3 (talk) 10:51, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

secondary sources tag

@Nederlandse Leeuw: I tried to review the article and fixed the problem that was mentioned by you. I added the secondary sources to the article. So, I remove the secondary sources tag. M1nhm (talk) 07:33, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

For fixing needs additional citations for verification tag, I tried to add some source such as source1, source2, source3 and for fixing secondary sources tag, I added the secondary sources to the article such as source4, source5 M1nhm (talk) 09:44, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Salaah

Is known as namàz 102.38.105.4 (talk) 16:18, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Standard Wikiwide spelling of different Salah's names

Would it be possible to come to some sort of consensus on this? Probably not, but we could at least have consistent spelling across Wikipedia articles. Some of the names in this article are different from the actual names under the Salahs' individual articles. Obviously there will be redirects from alternate spellings in search results, but within Wikipedia there should be a standard. Might I suggest: Fajr,Thuhr,Asr,Magrib,Eshaa,Jumu'ah,Witr,Nafl,Taraweeh Feel free to disagree, but for the sake of brevity please write your suggestions in a horizontal list. Zunaid 10:48, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

I suggest: Fajr, Dhuhr, Asr, Maghrib, Isha, Jumu'ah, Witr, Nafl, Taraweeh.

I would also like to suggest standardising names of the other salaat, for example, Salat ul-Haajat instead of Salaat ul-Haajat or Salat ul Haajat or Salat al-Haajat etc... . I'm sure we can come to an agreement. MP (talk) 13:08, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I think Jum'ah & Salaat would be better . About witr & Nafl , both have an i sound , that is witir & nafil . What do you say . F.a.y.^{تبادله خيال /c} 13:49, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you about Salaat. As for your other suggestions, now that I think about it, I can't say either way which spelling to go for. If Arabic is your native tongue, I'll take your word for it. :) MP (talk) 14:14, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Arabic is not my native tongue , but thats how I have heard it being spoken by arabs . May be I should ask some arabic speaker about it . F.a.y.^{تبادله خيال /c} 15:40, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Fajr, Dhuhr, Asr, Maghrib, Isha, Jumu'ah, Witr, Nafl, and Taraweeh. As for Salat, I think it should be salat (note I'm the one who moved it from Salah), but I will settle for Salah. Salaat seems like a very uncommon English translitteration of the word. Note 332,000 results for Salaat, 9.5 million results for Salat, and 14.3 million for Salah. Note that searching for "salaat / salat / salah prayer" yields the same order. Nevertheless, I'm going for salat over salah especially based on what links here, which shows "salat" as the most common reference. joturner 18:06, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I would say don't translate standing alif with 'aa' since in some systems this represents the letter 9ain (sorry haven't mastered arabic text online yet - if you speak Arabic you know which letter I mean!) Eteb3 (talk) 14:56, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Rakat table

The article is definitely in need of a table about rakats of fard , sunnah(maukada/ghair moakada) , wajib , nafil . I dont know how to make it , lol . F.a.y.^{تبادله خيال /c} 20:40, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Taslim into Salah

This article does not appear to have potential beyond a stub. It could easily be merged into the main article. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:30, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

  Y Merger complete. Klbrain (talk) 12:45, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Sections

In all honesty, there is not need to place the Shia and Sunni sections together. This gives a false impression that condones division into two sects when it absolutely does not. Perhaps making a separate page for Shia practices and Sunni practices would be better so that the one who actually came to learn about Salat would not be confused?

I moved the page information from namaaz to Salah because Salah is the more proper term and is the term you will find in Islamic texts. Namaaz is a localization of the term salah in numerous languages such as Urdu.

ThaGrind 08:55, 3 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Spelling of 'Salat'

Are there any other variation to the english spelling of 'Salat'? The only problem with this spelling, I think, is that in the Malay/Indonesian language, the word salah literally means wrong. Could there be a variation? perhaps Solah or Solat? Thank you. - Zaim 02:45, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

It is an Arabic language word, and the salah spelling is the only one that makes sense in most transliteration conventions. By the way, Spanish language used to have the word azalá for "(Muslim) prayer", which is featured for example in the Cansinos-Assens translation of the Qur'an into Spanish.

I've seen "salat" used as a transliteration" far more than "salah," for whatever it's worth.

• • We've always spelled it "Salaah", the "aa" indicating that the second syllable is long. Zunaid 10:55, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

• The correct way to spell it would be "Sala'". The word only matters in Arabic and not in any other languages (since we're talking about an Arabic word).

In Arabic, "Sala'" is spelled: صلاة. Notice the last letter (Arabic is read right to left): ة.

That last letter is called "Ta Marbuta". That "letter" (techincally it isn't) is NOT pronounced unless there is a word after it. So it would be "Sala'" since there is no word after it.

Examples (Ex. 2 is probably wrong grammatically):

1) Al-bayt sala' The house of prayer

2) Salat ul-bayt Prayer house

Armyrifle 19:23, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't see a point of adding the Urdu word 'salat' as no words from other languages are present. IMHO it should be deleted. 'Salat' is more popularly known as 'namaaz'/نماز in Urdu thus making it further irrelevant. Sumair1 00:42, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

There is an Indonesian/Malay term 'sembayang' which means 'salah' (even though some modern preachers condemn its usage as being pre-Islamic) but it's still commonly used along with the Arabic-derived word 'sholat'.KaluQ84 (talk) 07:10, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

What about words: Salaat, Salaah, Salah ? Verycuriousboy 14:06, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

I suggest using Library of Congress system of transliteration - see Romanization of Arabic since this is the one most in use in the English-speaking world. Ta-marbuta is usually transliterated 'h' (so Salah), but here it's pronounced 't' so suggest transliterating 't', (so Salat).

I'm also proposing the following: 1) salat be spelled with diacritics in the first instance, where the relationship with the Arabic is important, but afterwards without. 2) most references to "prayer" in the article be changed to "salat"Eteb3 (talk) 14:49, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

In fact, the 't' in Salah is NOT pronounced in Arabic. Transliterating it as Salat is akin to writing Ka'ba as Ka'bat. Pausal forms are the standard for transliterations of this kind and using the 't' as the regular pronunciation is a metanalysis of non-Arabic natives. See Hans Wehr's transliteration in his dictionary, for example.

let's avoid using linguistic transliterations with diacritics and stick with using or creating *English* variants. Since English doesn't have vowel length, there is no reason to be fancy. Salah is a perfect and standard form. David80 (talk) 13:06, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

I stand correct on Salah as a non-pausal form. I disagree about English not having vowel length - see "cat" vs. "car", "cap", "cape". For people coming to the article from another source, could be useful to have an indication of how to pronounce unfamiliar words? I agree that full diacritics aren't useful for people who don't know Arabic already, but long/short vowels are pretty widely understood. Eteb3 (talk) 10:25, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Wow! To much discussion over a simple word. LOL.

This is an Arabic word so no other language should be referred to for its transcription. The word صلاة consists of four letters, each with a unique sound:

1. ص (s)
2. ل (l)
3. ا (a)
4. ة (h/t)... an h when no other words follow it (end of a sentence), but a t sound when followed by other words (beginning of a sentence or mid-sentence).

With the addition of vowels, the word slah becomes salaah. Though salaah would be the more correct transcription, a rule of avoiding double vowels in transcription has been adopted (for whatever reason). Therefore, the word salah is accepted.

Let us not delve into a discussion between the two accepted spellings of salah and salaah as the more important topic here is the better organization and factuality of the article. Sun NY (talk) 20:43, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Seriously? There's no Arabic speakers who've visited the discussion page and added some insight into Arabic-language reality? In the اة ending, the tāʔ marbūṭa is usually pronounced in Arabic (regardless of its position in the sentence). There are speakers who say ṣála (paroxytone stress), but you usually do hear ṣalāt (oxytone stress). This is probably the reason why "Salat" is more common in English than other romanizations (e.g. the Library of Congress's "Salāh"). The two examples by ArmyRifle9 are also wrong...--Serafín33 (talk) 04:53, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Not to mention that Persian speakers, as well as others, say "salat.' Danwaggoner (talk) 18:02, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Using "salah" to refer to payer is incorrect. Authorized language sources (e.g. oxford dictionary) and Arabic speaking dictionaries indicate this wikipage is inccorect in using "salah" in the context of pray. use "salat". Since the presentation of the word is shown in Arabic صلاة and English "salat" or "sala" depending on the sentence, then it should not be influenced by other dialects or languages. One wonders about the accuracy (and truthfulness) of this wikipage since fundamental element of language use and word presentation is lacking correctness. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.144.123.97 (talk) 10:35, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Text from duplicate article Islamic prayer, now a redirect

Muslims pray a brief ritualistic prayer service called Salah in Arabic, facing Kaaba in Makka, five times a day (a practice adopted from Zoroastrianism whose adherents too daily offer five diurnal prayers preceded by a confessional intention or niyat). The "call for prayer" is called Adhan or Azaan. There are also many standard duas or supplications, also in Arabic, to be recited at various times, e.g. for one's parents, after salah, before eating. Muslims may also say dua in their own words and languages for any issues they wish to communicate with Allah. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hajor (talk • contribs) 21:32, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

When is it best to pray salat

In the article, it says:

"it is considered best to pray them exactly at the beginning of their periods, when the call to prayer (adhan) announces the time of prayer."

I believe this is not unanimously agreed upon. For instance, the Prophet is supposed to have delayed the Isha prayers often enough that people believe it is better to delay them and pray later. Similarly, in the afternoon, he is supposed to have delayed the afternoon prayers because of heat. This latter could however be ignored perhaps because this can be considered as an extraordinary circumstance. However, the first point needs to be considered.

In fact, there is a difference. It is best to pray in congregation and if it is concluded that it is best to pray early, then it is indeed only best so long as the congregation is held early in the times. However, if congregation is late then it is considered best to pray in congregation than to pray early. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oiqbal (talk • contribs) 00:50, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

history behind the salat

I remember reading in a book on the history of the Arab people that the salat wasn't always 5 times a day, but initially it was only observed twice a day. There isn't anything in this article that even says how the Salat came to be in it's present form. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kolrobie (talk • contribs) 18:32, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

You are right. I will try to add this history in this article. Szhaider 21:22, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

In arabic it is SalaH not Salat

In arabic it is Salah, not salat. Pronouncing the 'Taa-Marbuta' at the end is a common mistake made by non-arabic speaking Muslims of the Indian subcontinent, e.g. Zakat instead of Zakah. See: [4] or [5] Aaliyah Stevens 17:05, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

The above is a not true reflection to the Arabic language (and is a bit of none-sense!). The reason for not pronouncing the taa-marbuta is because no other word follows it, so it becomes silent. To say "Payer of the Dawn" one would say Salat-el-Fajir, as taa-marbuta can not be silence in this case because of the qualifier after it. In Arabic, the word spelling for Salat does not change either way, i.e. if there is (or isn't) a word follows it. Phonetically, it is clearing causing an issue for non-Arabic speakers since the silence of the taa-marbuta makes the word written in English as "sala". This spelling may mean something else in other languages, however it is irrelevant since we are dealing with an Arabic word transcription into English. The English letter "h", as used in Salah, should represent the full pronunciation of the word. And the Arabic word Salah is a noun which has different meaning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.71.125.67 (talk) 13:01, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Eid prayers

Hi, anyone know why the article says (and in bold!!!) that shias do not pray for eid! If nobody minds it should be taken off, because it is absolutely wrong. theomidrezaei — Preceding unsigned comment added by Theomidrezaei (talk • contribs) 02:41, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Quranic Salat

[6] Three Salah / Salat Timings of Quran by Shah Waliullah / Shah Wali Ullah is a reference book on the topic.

200px|thumb|right|Shah Waliullah and Quranic Salat, in Arabic & Urdu translation.

The concept of Quranic Salat Timings has been discussed in Hujjat Allah Al-Baligha (Arabic/Urdu) by Shah Waliullah. He said that there are three Salat timings in fact for Five Salats[7].

See Image:[8], in Arabic & Urdu translation of Hujjat Allah al-Baligha (Arabic/Urdu) by Shah Waliullah.

The numbers of regular daily prayers “Salat” mentioned by their respective names in Arabic in the “Quran” are “Four” as follows:

1- Salat Fajr (صَلَاةِ الْفَجْرِ) (Dawn Prayer), (Sura Al-Nur 24:58).

2- Al-Salat Al-Wusta (الصَّلاَةِ الْوُسْطَى) or (الصَّلاَةَ لِدُلُوكِ الشَّمْسِ إِلَى غَسَقِ اللَّيْلِ ) (or The Middle Prayer), (Sura Al-Baqarah 2:238) and (Sura Al-Isra 17:78).

3- Salat Isha’a (صَلَاةِ الْعِشَاءِ) (Night Prayer), (Sura Al-Nur 24:58).

Note that (الصَّلاَةِ الْوُسْطَى) in (Sura Al-Baqarah 2:238) and (الصَّلاَةَ لِدُلُوكِ الشَّمْسِ إِلَى غَسَقِ اللَّيْلِ ) in (Sura Al-Isra 17:78) are the same “Salat” because these both “Salat” has (ال) common with them indicating that these are the same “Salat” as compared to (صَلَاةِ الْفَجْرِ) and (صَلَاةِ الْعِشَاءِ) which are without (ال) with word (صَلَاةِِ).

(ال) in Arabic is equivalent to the word “The” in English, indicating the importance of the middle prayer.

The following three “Salat” which are not mentioned in “Quran” by their names as a “term” in Arabic are as:

1- Salat Dhuhr (ظهر).

2- Salat Asr (عصر).

3- Salat Maghrib (مغرب).

Although, the words “Dhuhr (ظهر)”, “Asr (عصر)” and “Maghrib (مغرب)” are used in Quran but not as a “Term” defining “Salat”. In Sura Al-Nur 24: 58, the word “noon” is used but not as a “Salat Time” or as a “Salat Al-Dhuhr” but rather than as a “Time of Privacy/Rest Time”. For references and proof of the fact stated above, read the following verses in the Quran in Arabic & English.

حَافِظُواْ عَلَى الصَّلَوَاتِ والصَّلاَةِ الْوُسْطَى وَقُومُواْ لِلّهِ قَانِتِينَ

(Sura Al-Baqarah 2:238).

Guard strictly your (habit of) prayers, especially the Middle Prayer; and stand before Allah in a devout (frame of mind). (Sura Al-Baqarah 2:238).

أَقِمِ الصَّلاَةَ لِدُلُوكِ الشَّمْسِ إِلَى غَسَقِ اللَّيْلِ وَقُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ إِنَّ قُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ كَانَ مَشْهُودًا

(Sura Al-Isra 17:78).

Establish regular prayers - at the sun’s decline till the darkness of the night, and the morning prayer and reading: for the prayer and reading in the morning carry their testimony. (Sura Al-Isra 17:78).

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لِيَسْتَأْذِنكُمُ الَّذِينَ مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ وَالَّذِينَ لَمْ يَبْلُغُوا الْحُلُمَ مِنكُمْ ثَلَاثَ مَرَّاتٍ مِن قَبْلِ صَلَاةِ الْفَجْرِ وَحِينَ تَضَعُونَ ثِيَابَكُم مِّنَ الظَّهِيرَةِ وَمِن بَعْدِ صَلَاةِ الْعِشَاءِ ثَلَاثُ عَوْرَاتٍ لَّكُمْ لَيْسَ عَلَيْكُمْ وَلَا عَلَيْهِمْ جُنَاحٌ بَعْدَهُنَّ طَوَّافُونَ عَلَيْكُم بَعْضُكُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ كَذَلِكَ يُبَيِّنُ اللَّهُ لَكُمُ الْآيَاتِ وَاللَّهُ عَلِيمٌ حَكِيمٌ

(Sura Al-Nur 24: 58.).

O ye who believe! let those whom your right hand possess, and those of you, who have not reached puberty, ask leave of you at three times before coming into your private apartments -before the Morning Prayer (Salat Al-Fajr), and when you lay aside your clothes at noon (in summer) and after the night Prayer (Salat Al-Esha). These are the three times of privacy for you. At other times there is no blame on you nor on them, for some of you have to attend upon others and to move about freely according to need. Thus does Allah make plain to you the Signs; for Allah is All-Knowing, Wise. (Sura Al-Nur 24: 58.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.223.164.211 (talk) 05:57, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

See also in Urdu

• [9] Balagh Ul Quran

• [10] Aslwat in the Light of Quran — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.223.164.211 (talk) 05:57, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Salat Timings of Quran

Salat Timings of Quran are mentioned in the following verses:

In Quran 11:114, three Salat Times are described at both ends of the day, and at night.

And establish regular prayers at the two ends of the day and at the approaches of the night. (Sura Hud (11), 114. Translation by Yusuf Ali).

"You shall observe the contact prayers at both ends of the daylight, that is, during the adjacent hours of the night". (11:114).

وَأَقِمِ الصَّلاَةَ طَرَفَيِ النَّهَارِ وَزُلَفًا مِّنَ اللَّيْلِ إِنَّ الْحَسَنَاتِ يُذْهِبْنَ السَّيِّئَاتِ ذَلِكَ ذِكْرَى لِلذَّاكِرِينَ

(Sura Hud: 11:114).

"You shall observe the Salat (Contact Prayers) at the ends of the day, and zulufann min al-layl." (11:114).

فَاصْبِرْ عَلَى مَا يَقُولُونَ وَسَبِّحْ بِحَمْدِ رَبِّكَ قَبْلَ طُلُوعِ الشَّمْسِ وَقَبْلَ غُرُوبِهَا وَمِنْ آنَاءِ اللَّيْلِ فَسَبِّحْ وَأَطْرَافَ النَّهَارِ لَعَلَّكَ تَرْضَى

(Sura Taha: 20:130).

Therefore, be patient in the face of their utterances, and praise and glorify your Lord before sunrise and before sunset. And during the night glorify Him, as well as at both ends of the day, that you may be happy. (20:130).

فَاصْبِرْ عَلَى مَا يَقُولُونَ وَسَبِّحْ بِحَمْدِ رَبِّكَ قَبْلَ طُلُوعِ الشَّمْسِ وَقَبْلَ الْغُرُوبِ

(Sura Qaf: 50:39).

وَمِنَ اللَّيْلِ فَسَبِّحْهُ وَأَدْبَارَ السُّجُودِ

(Sura Qaf: 50:40).

Therefore, be patient in the face of their utterances, and praise and glorify your Lord before sunrise, and before sunset. (50:39). During the night you shall meditate on His name, and after prostrating. (50:40).

أَقِمِ الصَّلاَةَ لِدُلُوكِ الشَّمْسِ إِلَى غَسَقِ اللَّيْلِ وَقُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ إِنَّ قُرْآنَ الْفَجْرِ كَانَ مَشْهُودًا

(Sura Al-Isra 17:78).

Establish regular prayers - at the sun's decline till the darkness of the night, and the morning prayer and reading: for the prayer and reading in the morning carry their testimony. (Sura Al-Isra 17:78).

Further "Verily, Prayers are enjoined upon the Believers at times assigned in a written document.” (Quran 4:103/4:104 in some translations).

"O you who believe, when the Salat is announced on Friday, you shall hasten to the commemoration of God, and drop all business. This is better for you, if you only knew. Once the prayer is completed, you may spread through the land to seek God's bounties, and continue to remember God frequently, that you may succeed." (62:9-10).

And neither speak thy Prayer aloud nor speak it in a low tone but seek a middle course between. (Sura Al-Isra (17) verse 110 Translation by Yusuf Ali).

For the usage of the word "Esha" (evening) see: 12:16; 79:46.

The times of Dawn & Evening Prayers are defined above. The middle or Salat Al-Wusta can be observed from the moment the sun begins its descend from its highest point in the sky (duluk al shams) until the darkness of the night (ghasaq al-layl) starts to set in, which is at sunset.

"You shall observe the Salat (Contact Prayer) from when the sun declines from its highest point up till the 'ghasaq al-layl' (the darkness of the night)." (17:78).

"You shall observe the contact prayer when the sun goes down until the darkness of the night. You shall also observe the Quran at dawn. Reading the Quran at dawn is witnessed." (17:78). salah means pryer in muslim The Verse 38:32 implies that the time of the Middle prayer ends with sunset.

The Fajr (Dawn) Prayer starts when the first thin ray of light is observed in the sky.

"The white thread of light becomes distinguishable from the dark thread of night at dawn." (2:187).

The time for the dawn prayer is also given in the Quran with the words.

" …….. and at dawn as the stars fade away." (52:49).

The Dawn prayer ends at the first “taraf” (terminal) of the day which is sunrise (11:114).

From the above cited verses Quran Alone group says that there are Three Salat Timings in the Quran. Whereas Ahle Hadith group proves from the same cited verses that there are Five Salat Timings. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.223.164.211 (talk) 05:57, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Reading External Links

• [11].

• [12].

• [13].

• [14] The Realities of our Daily Prayers

• [15] Salaat Prayer According to the Quran

• [16] Three Salat Authorised In the Quran

• [17] What Is Salat?

• [18] SALAT = REACHING-OUT

• [19] Salat of Quran

• [20] Salat Timings of Quran

• [21] Salat Asr — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.223.164.211 (talk) 05:57, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Salat Asr (Al-Wusta) and Quran

Al-Salat (Salah) Al-Wusta, or the Middle Prayer, is mentioned in Quran as follows:

حَافِظُواْ عَلَى الصَّلَوَاتِ والصَّلاَةِ الْوُسْطَى وَقُومُواْ لِلّهِ قَانِتِينَ

(2:238)

It is to be noted that the Asr daily prayer is not mentioned by name in the Qur'an at 2:238 as claimed at [1] but the middle prayer (Al-Wusta: الصَّلاَةِ الْوُسْطَى).

The Asr daily prayer is mentioned in the following Hadith along with many others as:

Yahya related to me from Malik from Zayd ibn Aslam from al-Qaqa ibn Hakim that Abu Yunus, the mawla of A'isha, umm al-muminin said, "Aisha ordered to write out a Qur'an for her. She said to him, 'When you reach this ayat, let me know, 'Guard the prayer carefully and the middle prayer and stand obedient to Allah.' When I reached it I told her, and she dictated to me, 'Guard the prayers carefully and the middle prayer and the asr prayer and stand obedient to Allah.' Aisha said, 'I heard it from the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace.'" (Al-Muwatta, Hadith No. 8.8.26). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.223.164.211 (talk) 05:57, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

I've understood that for the Malikis [Malik wrote Al-Muwatta], salat al-wusta is not Asr prayer but the dawn prayer (salat al-fajr, or in Maliki terminology, salat al-subh).

But I think this level of detail will not help the article :-) Eteb3 (talk) 15:06, 27 March 2019 (UTC)

Non-Quranic Salat

The two Salat which are not mentioned in Quran by their names as a “term” are as:

1- Salat Dhuhr (ظهر)

2- Salat Asr (عصر)

The words “Dhuhr (ظهر)” and “Asr (عصر)” are used in Quran but not as a “Term” defining “Salat”. In Sura Al-Nur 24: 58, the word “noon” is used but not as a “Salat Time” or as a “Salat Al-Dhuhr” but rather than as a “Time of Privacy/Rest Time”.

O ye who believe! let those whom your right hand possess, and those of you, who have not reached puberty, ask leave of you at three times before coming into your private apartments -before the Morning Prayer (Salat Al-Fajr), and when you lay aside your clothes at noon (in summer) and after the night Prayer (Salat Al-Esha). These are the three times of privacy for you. At other times there is no blame on you nor on them, for some of you have to attend upon others and to move about freely according to need. Thus does Allah make plain to you the Signs; for Allah is All-Knowing, Wise. (Sura Al-Nur 24: 58.).

The numbers of Salat mentioned by their respective names in the Quran are three as follows:

1- Salat Al-Fajr (Dawn Prayer), (Sura Al-Nur 24:58).

2- Salat Al-Esha (Night Prayer), (Sura Al-Nur 24:58).

3- Al-Salat Al-Wusta (The Middle Prayer), (Sura Al-Baqarah 2:238). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.223.164.211 (talk) 05:57, 10 January 2009 (UTC)