Talk:Quran/Archive 12

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Requested move 25 September 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not Moved - pretty much a dead heat. Article will be found by an interested reader with either title. Mike Cline (talk) 12:39, 5 October 2015 (UTC)


Quran → Koran – I have 3 main reasons this would be a better title:

1. It is more common. 1,650,000 News hits for Koran -Quran vs 238,000 news hits for Quran -Koran It is the spelling preferred by The OED, Merriam-Webster, Dictionary.com, Vocabulary.com, Cambridge Dictionaries, The Free Dictionary, and Collins Dictionary. It is slightly more common on ngrams.

2. It is more traditional and familiar to English speakers, and is better established as part of the language.

3. It is much easier for native English speakers with no Arabic knowledge to spell and pronounce properly.

Bobby Martnen (talk) 02:59, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

  • Comment: However it's spelled, it's a transliteration. Like translations, they are more or less approximate whatever one does. Decades ago, "Koran" seemed to be the one-and-only Latin alphabet spelling, but I haven't seen it commonly in quite a long time. I'd have said Quran is the current spelling, like Beijing rather than Peking. It might be helpful to know date stamps of some statistical hits to see if there is a trend. Evensteven (talk) 04:10, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
    • Comment: Per the above comment, Google Ngram Viewer shows a clear trend away from Koran and toward Quran starting around 1875 or 1918. The two seem to have become roughly equally common around 1986 and have basically stayed that way since then, although with some persisting greater overall prevalence of Koran up to 2008 (after which the tool does not analyze). —BarrelProof (talk) 16:20, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Strong Oppose: most books I read use "Quran" rather than any other spelling variant. Also, "Quran" is the standard transliteration from the original Arabic as per WP:MOSAR. Khestwol (talk) 17:05, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose: My thanks to BarrelProof for the trends information, and to Khestwol for confirmation of the standard transliteration. Older usages in English (like "Koran" and "Peking") are often notoriously Anglicanized themselves, not reflecting the original particularly well. Such Anglicanizations have in more recent times tended to be corrected to make better approximations. (One never sees "Peking" any more.) However long it takes actual usage to catch up, I'll throw my lot in with what promises to be the future standard: "Quran". Evensteven (talk) 17:21, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose: the most common spelling appears to be Quran or Qur'an, not Koran. WP:COMMONNAME applies here. ONR (talk) 20:53, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose: It is interesting that ONR brought up "Qur'an", for two different reasons. The first is that "Quran" and "Qur'an" are clearly basically equivalent, whereas "Koran" is not really the same, as it is clearly a more Westernized name (somewhat like Peking versus Beijing or Bombay versus Mumbai). So when considering "Koran" versus the others, I would suggest to sum up both the occurrences of "Quran" and "Qur'an". When that is done, "Koran" is definitely not the WP:COMMONNAME in book sources. The second reason is even more interesting. In fact, "Qur'an" appears to be more common than both "Quran" and "Koran" in book sources, by a large and growing margin. See the Google Ngram Viewer result for comparing the three. I suggest discussing the desirability of a move to Qur'an. —BarrelProof (talk) 21:54, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
I would agree that the title of the article ought to be "Qur'an", under the assumption that it is commoner than "Quran". I'm not aware at all of what significance the apostrophe conveys, but transliterations of Arabic are full of them, so I can only assume that there is a valid language characteristic involved. If "Qu'ran" becomes the new title, "Quran" can still be a redirect to it, and even "Koran" (for historical purposes). Evensteven (talk) 05:20, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
I think the current title Quran is fine. In general apostrophes (and diacritic marks) are omitted from Wikipedia titles. For example Umar, Uthman, Ali, Eid al-Adha, etc do not use apostrophes in titles although their strict transliteration do have apostrophes. Khestwol (talk) 08:28, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. "Koran" is the preferred spelling of every major English-language dictionary. To add to the comprehensive list given in the nomination, there's also American Heritage (newly updated with a 2015 edition) and Webster's New World College Dictionary (recommended by the AP Stylebook). The standard transliteration from Arabic is al-Qur'ān. "Qur'an" and "Quran" represent misguided attempts to split the difference. "Koran" is somewhat more common than "Quran," according to this ngram. Even if it wasn't, the title should tell the reader how to spell this word correctly. Hymn and her (talk) 14:47, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
Ngram favors the "Q" spelling. It favors Qur'an by a big margin over "Koran". Khestwol (talk) 15:01, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
My sense is that "Qu'ran" is associated with devotional literature. It would be like calling the pope "the Holy Father." If you look at the New York Times or other major media organizations, none of them are using the apostrophe. Dictionaries and style guides are the authorities on spelling. No one off Wikipedia would use an ngram to make this decision. Hymn and her (talk) 16:43, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
Hymn and her, to be correct, AP Stylebook prefers "Quran". --Fauzan✆ talk✉ mail 06:58, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
Reference works use The Chicago Manual of Style, which recommends Merriam-Webster spelling. Chicago is mentioned several times in WP:MOS, AP not at all. Hymn and her (talk) 09:20, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
WP:MOS does not give precedence to any one manual of style over another. Moreover, Chicago MOS has entries for both Qurʾan and Koran. Few dictionaries that the CMOS uses [1] also use Qran and Koran interchangeably. --Fauzan✆ talk✉ mail 12:27, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
CMOS explicitly prefers Merriam-Webster spellings in several places, see sections 2.51 and 5.220. Also, the CMOS rule is to use the first spelling given, even if the dictionary itself doesn't express a preference. For example, American Heritage gives equal status to "Koran" and "Qu'ran." But by this rule you still end up with "Koran." CMOS even has a section that addresses our problem specifically: "Koran; Koranic (or, less commonly Qu'ran; Qu'ranic)" (CMOS, Section 8.102). As far as the AP goes, it is most irregular for a style guide to have a "preferred spelling" that goes against the advise of a relevant reference work that they themselves recommend -- in this case Webster's New World College Dictionary. Hymn and her (talk) 10:04, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose. I disagree about comparison to "Peking" v. "Beijing". One is the transliteration from Mandarin Chinese, and the other from Cantonese. Generally the same written language, but there is no similarly in pronunciation, so there is no similarly in transliteration. In other words, there might be reasons why "Peking" should still be used; there is no such reason for "Koran". — Arthur Rubin (talk) 20:22, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
    • You cannot use logic to figure out spelling! Don't you believe in using a dictionary? OneLook lists 28 online dictionaries. Pretty much all of them give the K spelling. As for "Peking," that's a spelling created by French missionaries, notably Du Halde (1735). So the phonetic values of the letters are French. At that time, Nanjing dialect was standard rather than Beijing dialect. But it has nothing to do with Cantonese. Hymn and her (talk) 22:59, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Support the arguments regarding transliteration are nonsensical. In parallel there is no difference in English in the pronunciation of Cue, Kew, or Queue.
The first constanant of the word "ق" is represented in the International Phonetic Alphabet as /k/ and working through the Arabic listings alphabetically, article topics that began with this Arabic letter were: Cairo, Karaganda Region and Kazakhstan.
The first vowel of the word, an open-mid back rounded vowel, "ɔ" is pronounced ~"o" as per the recorded provided by File:Open-mid back rounded vowel.ogg : GregKaye 08:24, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. WP:MOSAR also says (even before it was updated earlier today) that primary transcriptions -i.e. common English names- take precedence over any other rendering. Since it is written that way even in dictionaries, I'd say go for Koran. Small note though: if a more literal rendering is preferred, we should go for the standard transcription Qur'an instead of Quran. The reason by the way, why Qur'an shows up so often in searches, is probably also because it is written that way in Latin-script-but-non-English Muslim communities (e.g. Turkey and Indonesia) - HyperGaruda (talk) 18:50, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Support as the nominator. Here is some more evidence for the prevalence of Koran over Quran in English:
News from the last week that contains "Quran" but not "Koran"
News from the last week that contains "Koran" but not "Quran"
Koran dominates Quran by a 4:1 ratio. Bobby Martnen (talk) 22:50, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Google Ngram Viewer, when using only Books in the English language published in any country, still gets the "Q" spelling (Qur'an) as, by far, the common name. Ever since 1980s, English has switched to using the Q spelling for the Quran (most commonly with the apostrophe) in overwhelming majority of reliable sources. Khestwol (talk) 15:08, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose. This is a stale discussion. There had been several discussion over this. A little history: I remember this article shortly lived as Qur'an before it was moved back to Quran. I don't remember and neither can find evidence that it ever lived as Koran. However, there are more than just one discussion about moving it to Koran.
Now, If you look into ngrams for last 25 years Qur'an is clearly the most used spelling. If we look into a long period of time, we see historically Koran was more prevalent spelling. But clearly the trend started to change post WW2. This is the period, when most of the English speaking world started to adopt more proper spellings for many foreign words. Quran and Qur'an are more common today than Koran in academia and among those who are more familiar with Islam. In my opinion, the argument "Koran is the only correct spelling or the preferable one", is conservative and a denial of the languages' ever changing nature. If someday, Koran returns as the most common word, we would go there, if after one or few centuries is it something else, we would use that. Today, spelling with 'Q' most is common, so we should use that. --nafSadh did say 16:56, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
This RM pits "Koran" against "Quran." The results for "Qu'ran" should not enter into it. Washington Post uses Koran, while New York Times uses Quran. It's Pepsi and Coke. The two spellings are used in the same type of publication and have the same significance. The major dictionaries, the ones in use today, continue to give the "Koran" spelling. To throw "Qu'ran" into the mix confuses the issue since this spelling appears in devotional literature and thus has a different significance. Judging from the ngram, somebody must have gotten a load of books from Muslim publishers and scanned them into gbooks. Hymn and her (talk) 17:51, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
Just to be clear: the spelling Qur'an is by no means only used in devotional literature. It is derived from the exact transliteration Qur’ān, but simplified for typing purposes (i.e. straight apostrophe and a plain "a"). - HyperGaruda (talk) 18:19, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose Most news sources and dictionaries use Koran while academic sources and Google show the prevalence of Quran (or Qur'an to be precise). This may point to no obvious universal spelling in the English media. This is where WP:NC and WP:MOSAR kick in.

    Per NC, Recognizability, Naturalness, Precision, Conciseness and Consistency should be accounted for. Per MOSAR, If there is no common transcription, a basic transcription is used. Thus Quran is a better choice. Perhaps we can have a discussion on these lines. --Fauzan✆ talk✉ mail 06:54, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Qur'an Quran Koran
Google Search 64m 48m 37m
Google Books 675k 406k 619k
Google News 74k 0.2m 2.8m
Google Ngram [2] 42 24 21
Google Trends [3] 44 14
Religions Styleboook ✓
AP Stylebook ✓
Oxford Reference [4] 697 2757 776
Oxford Dictionary ✓
Oxford English Dictionary Dictionary ✓ (?)
FBI 15 8 7
NYT 1320 1250 4450
CNN 845 839 1250
Washington Post 751 673 2540
Al Jazeera 842 843 121
Britannica ✓(Qurʾān)
Library of Congress 593 270 1050
PS: This discussion is already listed at WP:RM, Such activity ( [5] [6] [7] [8]) should be abstained from. --Fauzan✆ talk✉ mail 06:54, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
This chart is full of mistakes. Both AP and Religions Stylebook recommend "Quran," not "Qu'ran." Britannica uses "Qur'ān." They use standard Arabic transcription across the board, so their style is not comparable to ours. IMO, you look a spelling up the dictionary. You don't apply the rules of mathematics and declare one spelling to be the happy medium between two other spellings. Hymn and her (talk) 09:20, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, I've corrected the three mistakes. The MOS considers statistics and basic transcription as criteria, your personal opinion does not count here. --Fauzan✆ talk✉ mail 12:27, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Question about variant readings

I came upon this paragraph in the introductory section:

According to the traditional narrative, several companions of Muhammad served as scribes and were responsible for writing down the revelations.<ref name="Donner-Companion" /> Shortly after Muhammad's death, the Quran was compiled by his companions who wrote down and memorized parts of it.<ref name=jecampo/> These codices had differences that motivated the Caliph Uthman to establish a standard version now known as Uthman's codex, which is generally considered the archetype of the Quran we have today. However, the existence of variant readings, with mostly minor differences in meaning.<ref name="Donner-Companion">Donner, Fred, "The historical context" in McAuliffe, J. D. (ed.), ''The Cambridge Companion to the Qur'ān'' (Cambridge University Press, 2006), p. 31–33.</ref>

The last sentence lacks a verb. I changed it to what I thought was meant: "There are, however, variant readings, with mostly minor differences in meaning." I'm completely ignorant of the subject, though, so I'm flagging my edit for attention in case there's a subtlety I'm missing. JamesMLane t c 01:23, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Inimitability

Please add this to the Inimitability section:

Quran came in an unprecedented and unfollowed literary style of Arabic language. Hamilton Gibb, the famous Arabist from University of Oxford, comments on the issue: “But the Meccans still demanded of him a miracle, and with remarkable boldness and self confidence Mohammad appealed as a supreme confirmation of his mission to the Koran itself. Like all Arabs they were the connoisseurs of language and rhetoric. Well, then if the Koran were his own composition other men could rival it. Let them produce ten verses like it. If they could not (and it is obvious that they could not), then let them accept the Koran as an outstanding evident miracle.”<ref>H A R Gibb, Islam - A Historical Survey, 1980, Oxford University Press, p. 41. (available online: https://archive.org/stream/mohammedanismanh027895mbp#page/n51/mode/2up)</ref> Gibb further comments: “Though, to be sure, the question of the literary merit is one not to be judged on a priori grounds but in relation to the genius of Arabic language; and no man in fifteen hundred years has ever played on that deep-toned instrument with such power, such boldness, and such range of emotional effect as Mohammad did.”<ref>H A R Gibb, Islam - A Historical Survey, 1980, Oxford University Press, p. 36. (available online: https://archive.org/stream/mohammedanismanh027895mbp#page/n51/mode/2up)</ref>

92.22.32.63 (talk) 18:19, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

addition of Detailed information related to Holy Quran

It is suggested that, detailed information regarding Holy Quran like no. Of parts, chapters, manazil rukooh and no of ayats etc may be added to the main information box for added ease. Thank you Nimrainayat6290 (talk) 10:31, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

I would like to point out that most of the Prophets in the Quran are referred to by the Arabic form of their names derived from Ethiopic rather than Syriac. The Ethiopic forms again are derived from Greek. Thus, the names of the Prophets mentioned in the Quran sometimes end in "s" which is clearly the Greek nominative, which is missing in Hebrew and Syriac. E.g. Arabic "Yunus" corresponds to Hebrew "Yonah"; Arabic "Ilyas" corresponds to Hebrew "Eliyah". This could be connected with the fact that Western Arabia was under the Ethiopic sphere of influence in the middle of the 6th century.

importing sub-page

I have removed the following section from Talk:Quran/to do and am pasting it here instead. It all reads like talk page banter rather than a brief "to do" bulletin. The talk page itself is for actual discussion, the to do list is merely supposed to be a synopsis of consensus about aims. A lot of what is below is unattributed so if anyone wants to mine the history for signatures, that would be helpful. Ranze (talk) 03:43, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

to do

Peace greetings to all.

Can you add a short statement with a reference to another wikipedia article to the second paragraph, last sentence where it says Muslims regard the Quran as the most important miracle of Muhammad, a proof of his prophethood?

At the end of "a proof of his prophethood" please add the following sentence: "based on scientific, historical and literary miracles"... and link it with this article link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran_and_miracles

Can you please add the following line, under the definition?

4:82 وَلَوْ كَانَ مِنْ عِندِ غَيْرِ ٱللَّهِ لَوَجَدُواْ فِيهِ ٱخْتِلاَفاً كَثِيراً If it had been from [any] other than Allah , they would have found within it much contradiction. Veyselperu (talk) 07:28, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Italic text* I propose writing المدنية instead of المدينية because this is better relation to almadina (النسبة الأفصح والأصح إلى مدينة هي مدني وليس مدينيى), however this is a minor change. Amr alhossary (talk) 06:01, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

.......... they both adjectives, but you do not seem to understand the difference between the two , ( Amdieni refer to the place ) against the other place of Mekha. (AlMadani) refer to Civil ,, Civil looks nice word , that is why you wanted to use it , like the rest of the most of the Arabic poem and literature, lost among the words with no clear mission but look good. Syr10

  • At the end of the "Uniqueness" section of the "Significance in Islam" section, it is claimed that many prophecies of the Quran are "trivially proven inaccurate." This has no source, isn't true to my knowledge, and borders on breaking neutrality. Suggest that it be removed.
  • In the section 7.1 it says "the Quran was ... discussed by Christians and Jews before it was standardized."[115] This is a biased opinion. The reference given does not suggest this opinion in any way. Also the website it refers to shows where the bias is coming from.

Suggest to expunge this line from the article to maintain standards of neutrality and authenticity.

  • in section 2.2 change "in Sells's phrase" to "in Sells' words"
I believe that change #2 will improve the readability of the article (99.203.176.17 (talk) 23:31, 13 October 2009 (UTC))
  • "The Qur’an itself challenges those who deny its claimed divine origin to produce a text like it.[47][48][49][50][51][52] These claims originate directly from Islamic belief in its revealed nature, and are widely disputed by non-Muslim scholars of Islamic history.[53]"

The quoted text above is in the section titled 'Miracle'. The last reference (No. 53) refers to a book called The End of Faith by Sam Harris. Sam Harris is not considered, has never been considered or recognised as a 'scholar of Islamic History' in the relevant academic circle. His works do not deal with Islamic history. He has not written any book that solely deals with the history of Islam. No book has ever written by him that intends to deal with Islamic History. If he is in fact a scholar of Islamic history he has concealed it very well and has done everything to not give the secret away.

-reply from another user - what exactly is your issue with the part you quoted above, about "produce a surah like it"? It is true. And it is written in the quran. And it is true that all muslims who try to prove the quran to be from God, do say this sentence all the time. And so it is completely true that muslims use those quran verses in that way. To challenge people to produce a surah like it, and then judge the meeting of this challenge, as something which makes the quran true or not. Even though it does not logically prove the quran to be true, but is just a silly trick to fool people into feeling secure, when they didn't actually prove it is true either. So no it should not be removed. Unless you want to hide the truth. - end of reply -.

SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM ABOVE: add a few words near the end of the sentence referred by the user, so that it reads like: "These claims originate directly from Islamic belief in its revealed nature, and are CLAIMED TO BE widely disputed by non-Muslim scholars of Islamic history.[53]" The three words in all-caps in the quotation above maintain the presence of the statement, the reference, and the authenticity that it itself is the claim of another.

  • In paragraph 2 of introduction:

"Muslim tradition agrees that although the Qur’an was authentically memorized completely by tens of thousands verbally; the Qur’an was still established textually into a single book form shortly after Muhammad's death by order of the first Caliph Abu Bakr suggested by his future successor Umar."

suggest replacing the semicolon with a comma to correct grammatical error.

  • {{editsemiprotected}} "Today several dozen persons hold the title "Memorizer of the Ten Recitations." This sentence should be removed, as there

are many many people who have memorized the ten recitations, not just several dozen.

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. • ɔ ʃ → 03:29, 2 May 2010 (UTC)


if a citation cannot be made to account for "several dozen" people, suggest removal of sentence completely, as there is no citation given to support this, and I cannot find one to support my stipulation either.Queequag (talk) 04:12, 21 May 2010 (UTC)


In the "Relationship with other literature" #7 section, i believe it would be appropriate to add the prophesies in the previous scriptures which the Quran coincides with, as it says in the Quran that it is a book which is confirmed by previous scriptures: And when there cometh unto them a Scripture from Almighty God, confirming that in their possession (2:89) Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with them (7:157) If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee (10:94) They say: "If only he would bring us a miracle from his Lord!" Hath there not come unto them the proof of what is in the former scriptures? (20:133)

Having already rejected the religion of those Meccans who encouraged the worship of many gods, Muhammad spent much of his time contemplating the oneness of God. During a state of inner reflection, Muhammad reported hearing a loud, commanding voice cry, "Iqra!" (the Arabic word for "read"). The voice said the word a second time. Believing that he was alone in the cave, Muhammad became frightened. Nonetheless, he cried out, "I am not one of those who can read!" According to Muhammad, he was then lifted, embraced, and let go as the voice again ordered, "Iqra!" Muhammad replied just as he had done moments earlier. When the command came again, he responded by asking, "What shall I read?" This time, as the voice spoke the words, he repeated them, reciting what Muslims believe is the First Revelation and the beginning of Surah 96 of the Qur'an.

Isaiah 29;12 And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.


Isiah 40:6-8 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh [is] grass, and all the goodliness thereof [is] as the flower of the field: The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people [is] grass. The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 28:10-13 - For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people To whom he said, This [is] the rest [wherewith] ye may cause the weary to rest; and this [is] the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

The Quran was revealed in stages over the course of 23 years, some verses in one city, others in another.

Isaiah 51:4 Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.

No other Prophet after Moses brought their own law and followed the Law of Moses, this verse is in Isaiah, who came after Moses, giving tidings of a new law to come.

Jeremiah 31:33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. The entire Quran with all it's laws and injunctions, was and is committed to memory by millions of people around the world.

Hosea 2:23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to [them which were] not my people, Thou [art] my people; and they shall say, [Thou art] my God.

Can you please add the following line, under Recent Translations? Talal Itani (2012) THE QURAN – A Modern English Translation. ClearQuran Publishing. ISBN 978-1467948746

Section 3: Significance in Islam. Penultimate paragraph, 2nd sentence. TYPOS: Muslism => Muslims 'a they' => 'they'

I believe this article would benefit from more explicit dates. ex. Uthman is inferred to be shortly after the death of Mohammed. But it is not stated and "shortly" is ambiguous when dealing w a thousand years.98.255.23.209 (talk) 18:32, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

As its name implies, the To-do list on an article's talk page shows the list of improvements suggested for the article. It is created and formatted using the Todo template. The list is maintained by editors, writers, reviewers or readers like you as a way to focus your collaborative efforts. As such, they represent a tentative consensus that helps improve the efficiency of the editing process.

Author?

I came to this page because I'm interested in how this book was written. Unfortunately, the only lines I could find about this subject is:

"Muslims believe the Quran was verbally revealed by God to Muhammad through the angel Gabriel (Jibril),[4][5] gradually over a period of approximately 23 years, beginning on 22 December 609 CE,[6] when Muhammad was 40, and concluding in 632, the year of his death.[1][7][8] Muslims regard the Quran as the most important miracle of Muhammad, a proof of his prophethood,[9] and the culmination of a series of divine messages that started with the messages revealed to Adam and ended with Muhammad. The word "Quran" occurs some 70 times in the text of the Quran, although different names and words are also said to be references to the Quran.[10]

According to the traditional narrative, several companions of Muhammad served as scribes and were responsible for writing down the revelations.[11] Shortly after Muhammad's death, the Quran was compiled by his companions who wrote down and memorized parts of it.[12] These codices had differences that motivated the Caliph Uthman to establish a standard version now known as Uthman's codex, which is generally considered the archetype of the Quran known today. There are, however, variant readings, with mostly minor differences in meaning.[11]"

I am however not so interested in what religious people believe happened or what "the traditional narrative" says but in what contemporary science says. To make my question clear: Who wrote this book? Aaker (talk) 22:31, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

The answer is also clear: The Book is Allah's. (Kitaballahi=the Book of Allah, Quran 35:29) Veyselperu (talk) 02:36, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

Well, it was exactly this kind of response I didn't ask for. Who wrote the Quran according to contemporary science? Aaker (talk) 20:50, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

no reference to being the inspiration for millions of terrorists???

It's a well known fact that the quran is the leading text that inspires countless terrorist attacks worldwide. I think it's only proper that Wikipedia acknowledges this FACT and properly lists this issue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 179.9.169.30 (talk) 18:04, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Wikipedia doesn't care about well known supposed facts, it only summarizes professionally-published mainstream academic and journalistic sources. If you want this info included, we'll have to include similar information at the Bible article, as the number of Christian terrorists is comparable. Ian.thomson (talk) 01:27, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Rooting violence in text , has a historical answer ,that goes back to Cain and Able, a story told in almost all cultures, and arrived as we know it in it's Judeo- Cristian- Muslim version. As man first settled, The story of the two brothers appeared to tell and teach the wisdom of settling and building and leaving the non productive nomad's life behind, to solve a very important ethical dilemma around the settlements where the farmer plants his fields and the nomads bring their castles to these fields. The farmer could not accept loosing his efforts and corps to the nomads and shepherds. The Nomads saw it like, here is corps and hungry cattle that shall not die hungry. The story Born first in the Aramaic culture ,where Cain was the farmer and Able was the shepherd. The two brothers agreed to wrestle and the winner shall grant his brother half of what he has and teach him his way of life, like the farmer giving the shepherd land and teaching him how to settle and plant , or shepherd giving half the cattle and they both go back to the nomads life. In the Aramaic story Cain the farmer won and Able the shepherd agreed to settle and learn how to plant , with no mentioning to the act of one brother killing the other . In the roman culture , the two brothers where a hard working merchant who owns boats and a lazy poor brother always asking for help. The story ends where the hard working guy grant his brother few boats to fish and make his own living. In old Armenia, The two brothers where two kids in a family. The parents discriminated between the two , and the story ended where kids where able to correct the implications of such discrimination.

A unique Bedouin version of the story from the Arabic peninsula and Sinai desert came first in the Torah where The farmer is painted as killer. 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+4&version=ESV.

Second God refused the gifts from the farmer and thereafter told him you are cursed in the land . Third , the bible further explain that the farmer kids and grand kids , built cities and forged the bronze, however God in the end of the biblical story , bring another offspring of the Bedouin Abel ( the offspring of Seth)and at that time people began to call upon the name of God.

In Qur'an , The Bedouin brother was also pictured as the victim , and considered martyr, while the farmer is the one who regretted , waiting the fire of hell after life.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cain_and_Abel_in_Islam. 

Quran indorsed the Torah in it's Bedouin vision and reintroduced the story where the Bedouin  is the victim and the winner of God's heart.

Christians,having the old testament as their holly book, also departed from the Aramaic version to adopting and celebrating the story of killing and the cursing of the farmer and his offspring .

That is how violence was formally introduced to kids in the name of God , who prefer the Bedouins and their blood stained gifts of sacrifices.

Note: most people and researchers draw the cultural lines and borders around nations ,languages , religions or economic status . While these views present certain tools to managing social studies , there is completely ignored scientific tool in social studies, that if professionally used , may solve the most complicated unsolved historical issues , and that tool is dividing history around the civil VS Bedouin barbarian values. such tool may bring to light that the actual challenge is not how a Muslim and a Jew may agree or live along. but how much the primitive barbarian values affected each religion and each society.

In the Judaic faith for example there is two characters for Moses.one from 1391 BC and one from 1592 BC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses. The character from 1592 BC , not much is known about it, however Researcher Firas Al Sawah mansions that it appeared in the ( civil) Aramaic speaking area and all we know about it was the ten commandment. The ten commandment may simply apply to all people with no discrimination. The character of 1391 BC Moses is of a leader , leading his tribe in the desert of Sinai, telling them you are chosen and different and God is giving you certain promises and the tem commandments apply to you only ??

Same phenomena we may experience in Qura'n. The article of Quran states that Ali ibn Abi Talib gathered the Quran in chronological order. If we studied Quran in this method we will simply find out that the first part is almost a copy of the bible -new testament , or a repeat of the 10 commandment of Moses ( the 1592 BC character) where the language of ( whoever kills a man is as if killing the whole world ). In the second chronological part of Qura'n , the language changes, the Bedouin values appear and the language of the chosen nation and the better nation of rest of humanity become clear with demand to Jihad and wars.

Syr10

Finest piece of literature

The assertion that the Quran "is widely regarded as the finest piece of literature in Arabic" had already been deemed unsubstantiated and/or subjective back in July 2014. I do not think the opinion of the two authors currently cited, even if they are specialists, is enough to assert this. The sentence was removed and replaced by the more neutral assertion that "its scriptural status among a world-spanning religious community, and its major place within world literature generally, have led to a great deal of secondary literature on the Quran." As far as I can tell this change was undone by user Sodicadl. Anyone else think this is not exactly NPOV? Ausíhar (talk) 17:48, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

I agree, it should be reverted back to the more neutral version. "Widely regarded" is WP:WEASEL wording, and "finest piece of literature" would need a demonstrated consensus from reliable secular sources, which would be a near impossible task. It would be OK to cite a reliable source that evaluates language artistry as used in the Quran, if such sources exist. ~Amatulić (talk) 22:53, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
@Ausíhar, Amatulic, and Sodicadl: Why not use the wording "It is regarded by [Arabs, Muslims? (depending on the wording of the RSs)] to be the finest piece of literature" or something like that, this would solve all disputes as far as I know. 17:24, 27 April 2016 (UTC)CounterTime (talk)
That would be wrong because it paints Muslims and Arabs with too broad a brush. It simply doesn't need to be said.
As an analogy, most Christians revere the Bible, but I haven't yet met one who regards it as the "finest piece of literature", particularly in the case of the endless legalisms of Leviticus or the sleep-inducing "begats" of Chronicles.
Similar views are likely to exist among Arabs and even among Muslim Arabs. The article is helped more than harmed by removing it. ~Amatulić (talk) 21:00, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
@Amatulic: I guess we both agree that our opinions don't matter here, and that WP articles should reflect what RSs state. In this context, I invite you to check the Arabic version of this article, in particular, the references 11-17, which amongst them are ones by Arberry, Alan Jones, Speicher, which, I guess (again), you would agree that they're "secular".
21:28, 27 April 2016 (UTC)CounterTime (talk)
OK, that's pretty good.
  • "the finest work of Arabic prose in existence"[9]
  • "supreme classic of Arabic literature"[10]
It would be OK to write "has been described as..." and quote and cite one of those sources. ~Amatulić (talk) 05:49, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Agree with addition of above citations, and I'll suggest another as well:

  • "The Quran has enriched Arabic poetry more than any other literary genre.... In his theoretical work, Adonis praises the language of the Quran in detail, its provocative literary and aesthetic power, and it's breaking with traditional norms."

[1]

  1. ^ Jane Dammen McAuliffe (23 November 2006). The Cambridge Companion to the Qur'ān. Cambridge University Press. pp. 131–. ISBN 978-0-521-53934-0.

cӨde1+6TP 08:26, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Those cited are from "secular sources". From the history page, there used to be an exhaustive list of citations which I removed because they are all saying the same thing. It is precisely for secular reasons that this statement is in the lede; its literary standing within Arabic literature is the other thing it is most notable for, independent of it having any religious influence. The featured article William Shakespeare's opening sentence includes "widely regarded as the greatest writer in the English language", which is a far more contested statement considering the breath of English literature but is still a worthy, relevant sentence to include. Sodicadl (talk) 16:19, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

References

Arabic-only discussion

During prayers, the Quran is recited only in Arabic

Is there an article with more explanation about this? I notice a lot of focus on this in places like http://www.inquiryintoislam.com/2010/11/12-you-must-read-quran-in-arabic.html but I am wondering which passages actually talk about this. Like does the Quran itself mention "no translating this into other languages" or "only use Arabic to pray" or does this come from later Hadith or something? An article about this (or a redirect to a section explaining it) would be helpful. Ranze (talk) 03:08, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

This issue is very much political and non religious. as the existing print of Qur'an uses modern 28 letters Alphabet ( created by Abu-Alaswad Al Du'aali) after the revelation and not before( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_al-Aswad_al-Du%27ali).

  • In prophet Mohamad time , an Arabic dialect of Syriac /Aramaic, a 22 letters Alphabet, spoken south of Iraq and Syria , is what used to document the oldest know Sanaa script.
  • look at Ibn Hazm (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Hazm#Language) , saying Hebru ,Arabic and Syriac are one language.
  • the modern known Qur'an at it's best is a translation from 22 letters Alphabet to 28 letters Alphabet.

For example , the word (infidels -"ALKAFIRIN")is not used in the TAUBA surah in the oldest San'aa script, while it is added in the existing adopted version of Qur'an. the word has very much political function.

A make sense attitude of Muslims, would be adopting the oldest known script, at it's original shape, rather than submitting to political leaders in saying we are adding only punctuations. And if you can not understand the dialect of Sana'a script then why you do not bother learning such dialect of the most holly book as communicated in the time of prophet Mohammad , instead of submitting to political leaders. The other option would be adopting the collection of Ali-Ibnabi talib who was the authority behind asking Abu-Alaswad to punctuate the Aramaic alphabet and to move to new one. 

Ali IbnAbi talib was not only known for his refined language but he was an author of the book Nahj-Al-balagha (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nahj_al-Balagha)  which is something similar to Shakespeare works in the English literature. this book  replaced for Ali followers the contradicted literature of ( Hadith) and elevated the level of ethical values, away  from the Nomadic one . In Nahg Al Balagha , one will read the word ( Watan , meaning the home land) something never never comprehended by the nomads and never used in the Arabic language until the 20th century. The immediate effect of NahjAlbalagha among the believers , is peaceful communities in general. Syr10

The Quran was revealed in Arabic. Any translation is actually an interpretation and not the actual Quran. Therefore if you recite a translation you have actually recited something other than the Quran. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abirfaisal (talk • contribs) 14:52, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

Which Arabic? The one written in 22 non punctuated letters like in Sanaa Quraan ? or the 28 letters , appeared some 100 years after the profit Mohamad time.Syr10

Lepore textbook update

A while back in the archives an IP user posted that a history textbook by Jill Lepore had a sentence that posited that Arabian sailors never attempted to cross the Atlantic because the Quran forbids travel beyond the Mediterranean (Encounters in the New World, 2000, ISBN 0-19-515491-6; pp. 14-15). The user said they contacted Lepore to get a source or verse on this and did not get a reply. I am wondering if there has been any update, or if not, whether anybody would be interested in attempting to contact Lepore again. If you wish to do so, please wait a couple days and then post here before sending the email. SamuelRiv (talk) 01:47, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

There should be no 'U' in 'Qur'an'. When I entered 'U' into the Arabic keyboard I got the Arabic equivalent. There is no 'U' in Qibla, Qatar or al-Qaeda. The Koran has been hacked into.

[1]American Journalism Review , editorial assistant Andy Zieminski, Ray Hanani, Palestinian American Freelance Columnist, downloaded Thursday 9 June 2016. There should be no 'U' in 'Qur'an'. Despite this, when I entered 'U' into the Arabic keyboard I got the Arabic equivalent. There is no 'U' in Qibla, Qatar or al-Qaeda. There are professional hackers backdating to Prophet Mohammed's or Prophet Muhammad's lifetime, causing him immense pain when receiving messages from al-lah (the al-) God (lah), deity) when memorising and recording the Koran. This is also linked to the reasons why Prophet Mohammad was requested to change the direction of prayer from the Dome of the Rock Jerusalem, to Mecca Saudi Arabia, Petra etcetera. I believe Petra where there was an earthquake causing the Qibla to be moved to Mecca is the final resting place, but I cannot confirm. Please check on the 'U" and "u", ALSO IN RELATION TO THE ARABIC COUNTERPARTS.

This is the English Wikipedia, we use English keyboards, and we name articles in the English Wikipedia according to how the topic is most commonly referred to in reliable English-language sources. ~Amatulić (talk) 05:41, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ Halim Lliasi's 'variously in the same volume M.A. Haleem Elliasii The Holy Qur-'aan with an apostrophe and 2 a's, Roman Transliteration of The Holy Qur'an With Arabic Text. English Translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali, 8th revised edition April 2002 Christian calendar

pronunciation of Quran

Hello, fellow editors. I was just a bit confused about the bit at the start of this page where it says the way to pronounce 'Quran' is 'kor-ahn'. No offense but that's just incorrect. It should be something more like 'Qoor-ahn' and if there's a way to show the hard, guttural sound of the 'ahn' please try and include that as well. I hope you consider my suggestions about making this correction. Thank you. Mok2k11 (talk) 22:34, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

There is a footnote on that in the article, with the IPA pronunciation variants:
The English pronunciation varies: /kəˈrɑːn/, /kəˈræn/, /kɔːrˈɑːn/, /kɔːrˈæn/, /koʊˈrɑːn/, /koʊˈræn/;[1] especially with the spelling quran /kʊrˈɑːn/, /kʊrˈæn/;[2] especially in British English /kɒrˈɑːn/.[3][4]

References

  1. ^ dictionary.reference.com: koran
  2. ^ dictionary.reference.com: quran
  3. ^ Cambridge dictionary: koran
  4. ^ Cambridge dictionary: quran

Qur'an stands for "The Sun rotates around Earth" no concept of earth to be planet earth

SOURAH AL BAQARAH ( THE COW) 2:258 (https://www.quran.com/2:258)
  • ( أَلَمْ تَرَ إِلَى الَّذِي حَاجَّ إِبْرَاهِيمَ فِي رَبِّهِ أَنْ آَتَاهُ اللَّهُ الْمُلْكَ إِذْ قَالَ إِبْرَاهِيمُ رَبِّيَ الَّذِي يُحْيِي وَيُمِيتُ قَالَ أَنَا أُحْيِي وَأُمِيتُ قَالَ إِبْرَاهِيمُ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ يَأْتِي بِالشَّمْسِ مِنَ الْمَشْرِقِ فَأْتِ بِهَا مِنَ الْمَغْرِبِ فَبُهِتَ الَّذِي كَفَرَ وَاللَّهُ لَا يَهْدِي الْقَوْمَ الظَّالِمِينَ ) "Have you not considered the one who argued with Abraham about his Lord [merely] because Allah had given him kingship? When Abraham said, "My Lord is the one who gives life and causes death," he said, "I give life and cause death." Abraham said, "Indeed, Allah brings up the sun from the east, so bring it up from the west." So the disbeliever was overwhelmed [by astonishment], and Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people."


  • The issue does not seem to be in question for many Muslims. they argue that Quran is correct in claiming ( Sun is moved around by God from east to west ) . example from The ( civil dialogue page . http://www.ahewar.org/debat/show.art.asp?aid=201991 )pilot Nader Juneid presents 19 scientific proofs and 11 Quran references that Sun is the one rotates around Earth. Earth of course not necessarily a planet , but rather a ground fixed in place by wedges.

Syr10

You are breaking a fundamental rule by posting this here. Nothing here, however interesting, is amenable to being used for the article. We use reliable sources, which editors are not. Technically all of your contributions should be reverted out. Nishidani (talk) 18:55, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
No intention to post anything, If so I would have created a page. I read the article , and founded many issues presented incorrectly , I pointed to those like for example scientists names used as a proof of Islam encouraging science , while they were themselves religious victims .Everything else is mostly quotes from Quran ( what is better source than that) to open a healthy discussion and find answers to some questions. I would appreciate any correction to any of my possible misreading. What I do not appreciate ,however, is to shut up because the subject is holly thing and shall not be questioned or even discussed.

As for the fundamental rule, which you did not specify , I think you are trying to refer to primary and secondary sources, sensing that you consider any Quran material is a primary source. I think that we may only agree to considering the oldest available Quran as a primary source , everything else including 28 letters Arabic Quran or any English translation , a secondary reliable source of the subject.Syr10

Using English conventions for Arabic words

The last line in the first paragraph of the entry says "The Quran is divided into chapters called suras, which are then divided into verses called ayahs." The words "surah" and "ayah" are used in the plural, but with the English convention of putting "s" at the end of the word. Clicking on the word "suras" takes you to the Wikipedia entry for "Surah", where it says that the plural of "surah", following Arabic conventions, is "suwar" and not "suras." The same is true for "ayah" - clicking on the word "ayah" takes you to the Wikipedia entry of "Ayah," where it says that the plural of "ayah," following Arabic conventions, is not "ayahs" but "ayat." 50.35.115.248 (talk) 18:26, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Good catch. I made an attempt at revision. I don't think it's important for an English reader to know the singular and plural forms of each word, but I agree that Arabic words shouldn't use English pluralization. The important thing here is to have a word that links to the associated article so the reader can get more information. ~Amatulić (talk) 20:48, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Links to verses not working

Many (if not all) of the verses linked in this article do not work, instead going to a page like this: [11]. Do we have standard links for Quran verses that show, in parallel, Arabic and English? Thanks, Isambard Kingdom (talk) 12:52, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

POV claim in the introduction

The first paragraph in the lead claims that "It is widely regarded as the finest piece of literature in the Arabic language." However, both sources for this are rather dubious. Far from being any literary critics, both sources are from introductions by translators eager to encourage readers to read the work they have translate. Of course one can find sources saying that the Quran, or the Bible, or any religious text is the greatest literature ever, but for Wikipedia to report it as a fact would be surprising even with better sources. With the current "sources" it is clearly misplaced. Jeppiz (talk) 11:25, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

Well, the clarification "in the Arabic language" limits the competition to other works written in Arabic. I do not think we have surviving ones predating the 6th century, so the Quran may be seen as something of a founding stone for this literary tradition.

However, I agree that we need less biased sources. By the way, the Bible is not really comparable in this respect. It is a collection of different works, varying in genre, literary style, themes, the length of the works, and the original language of composition. Some may have literary merits, but you would probably find few people who think that the brief and mysterious Book of Obadiah is some kind of literary masterpiece. Dimadick (talk) 15:08, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

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File:Folio from a Koran (8th-9th century).jpg to appear as POTD soon

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Folio from a Koran (8th-9th century).jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on September 2, 2017. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2017-09-02. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:53, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

Quran folio
A folio from an 8th- or 9th-century Quran, written in Kufic script during the Abbasid Caliphate. The central religious text of Islam, the Quran is believed by Muslims to have been revealed by God to Muhammad through the angel Gabriel. The Quran consists of 114 chapters (surah), each comprising a different number of verses (ayat). Shown in this folio is parts of Al-Fath (48), verses 27-28.Folio: Unknown
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Semi-protected edit request on 10 October 2017

In order to clarify and to bring the article into agreement with the article "History of the Quran" I suggest the following edit: Under the section titled "Compilation" Change "In the year 632, after the demise of Muhammad a number of his companions who knew the Quran by heart were killed in a battle by Musaylimah, the first caliph Abu Bakr (d. 634) decided to collect the book in one volume so that it could be preserved." To "A year after the demise of Muhammad a number of his companions who knew the Quran by heart, said to be about 700, died in the Battle of Yamama (633). Concerned for the preservation of the text, a collection of the separate chapters and verses were made into a single volume under the auspices of the first Caliph, Abu Bakr." Deal5710 (talk) 19:06, 10 October 2017 (UTC) Deal5710 (talk) 19:06, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 19:39, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

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Reform

Can someone please add this? It's in everyone's best interest and also very influential. https://www.koosswart.nl/quran/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Djsoko (talk • contribs) 20:25, 7 April 2018 (UTC)


Semi-protected edit request on 13 April 2018

For consistency, these instances of "Qur'an" should be changed to "Quran":

  • The final verse of the Qur'an was revealed on...
  • Folio from the "Blue" Qur'an.
  • The Qur'an's statements on the creation of the universe and earth...

165.234.252.11 (talk) 16:54, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Done, as requested. HopsonRoad (talk) 18:23, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
Thanks! -165.234.252.11 (talk) 18:35, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 April 2018

42.108.33.13 (talk) 12:54, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

No request was included with this template. HopsonRoad (talk) 13:34, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 December 2018

The site currently used for showing Qur'an verses has a number of problems

  1. It is a very technical looking page with lots of options and a poor user experience.
  2. By default it shows only Arabic.
  3. It only has 3 English translations available.
  4. URLs are not in a simple form for users to navigate and/or link to

I'd like to change these to link to a more usable website which by default shows the three most accepted English translations, has up to 16 English translations available, provides the ability to highlight phrases in the text that the article wishes to draw attention to, and has cross references between Suras / Hadiths / Tafsirs / Root word analyses.

For example, compare the link on the page for verse 2.85 which explains how the Qur'an is meant as a guidance to all mankind.

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. DannyS712 (talk) 15:57, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Compilation

Line 4 " Thus, a group of scribes, most importantly Zayd, collected the verses and produced a hand-written manuscript of the complete book" Line 9 "Thus, within 20 years of Muhammad's death, the Quran was committed to written form"

The problem here is that hand written "complete" manuscript was already written by Zaid, the second one "uthman manuscript" copied from the first and added vocalization. So it didnt take 20 years for the Quran to be comitted to written form.

Away from what is said . existing scripts that are adopted by AlAzhar Alsharif to be authentic are as follow:


-Seventh Century, second half : ( Sanaa script-first group)document name :DAM 01-27.01. written in 22 letter no-punctuation Arabic dialect of the Syriac/Aramaic and Birmingham or( Mingana Islmic Arabic 1572a).

-Eight Century :(Sanaa script, fourth group)or (DAM20-33.01)and the British (Ms.Or.2165) and Samarkand .

-Ninth Century: Cairo ( Mushaf Al mashhad Al huseini) and Tub Kabi (H.S. 44/32)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEU6knDtTSc. Syr10

This section "compilation" present this statement: (According to Shia, Ali ibn Abi Talib (d. 661) compiled a complete version of the Quran shortly after Muhammad's death. The order of this text differed from that gathered later during Uthman's era in that this version had been collected in chronological order. Despite this, he made no objection against the standardized Quran and accepted the Quran in circulation).

The statement is missing the rest of Ali Ibn Abi Talib saying , Chronological order of Qur'aan is the way to avoid misinterpreting Qur'an. It worthwhile also to explain that what was called Uthman codex , is only a postulate even at Sunni Islam , where I believe read in the standard Qur'an introduction saying , it is "believed to be" 'Uthman codex, without any further claims that there is actually a proof to be Uthman's , as Muslims themselves have other stories saying Uthman's collection is actually burned. Syr10

Inimitability

Inimitability presented almost as a circulated and agreed upon fact , and to present the statement correctly , Why not giving an example. case study from SORAT "Al Nisaa"

( http://www.holyquran.net/cgi-bin/prepare.pl?ch=4) .

(http://islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/4.htm).

If a man dies and has four daughters, living parents and a wife . how shall the inheritance be handled according to Sorat Al Nisaa:

- The four daughters receive two thirds. The parents receive one third ( one sixth each).AlNisaa/11 ( Women/11).

- one eighth goes to the wifeAlNisaa/12 ( Women/12). Total 112.5% Is not that similar to Jesus feeding hundreds of people out of one loaf of bread.

Syr10

History

The article says: The Quran describes Muhammad as "ummi",[38] which is traditionally interpreted as "illiterate,"

The statement need further research into the Aramaic sources of Qur'an, with good reason knowing that San'aa copy of Quran was written in 22 letters alphabet , which is what Syriac /Aramaic is. In Aramaic ummi comes from the word mother , and the word mother is the source not only of life but knowledge, meaning Ummi refer to the literate rather than the illiterate .If this was the case , anyone may imagine what kind of damage , the Arab illiterate tribes inflicted on their own holly book.

Qur'an can not be studied without section dedicated to Aramaic relation to the book.

The lingual contents of Qur'aan hold an Aramaic wording roots , which in turn rooted in Babylon and Sumerian dialects , similar to English or Spanish languages having Latin roots.

  • For example we will mention here some names in English and in brackets the Arabic and Babylonian spell . February ( Shbat/Shbatu) , March (Adar/Adaru), April ( Nissan/Nissanu) May ( Ayar/Ayaru) , June (Haziran /Simanu) ,July ( tamuz in Arabic/Tamuz in Babylon/ Damuzi in Sumerian), August (Aab/Abu), September ( Aylul/Aylulo)...

preserving wording roots in the modern languages, is the most important aspect of literal character , beauty and functionality. While it's expected from a Spanish teacher to teach Latin roots to help students better understand how to use and practice their lingual skills. It is quite the opposite in Arabic in general and in Qur'anic Arabic, as part of certain political and religious views. Arabic was introduced as the language of God and of those living in heaven, arriving at a result that this language was found before any other language and as a result, Arabic words have no roots in the Arabic dictionary.

In short, this view simply resulted in a non-functioning language and society. For example the term ( hoor el aein ) was presented in wholly Qur'an as a reward from God to believers after death. Such reward was communicated among Arabs, in what they call literature, as beautiful girls with big eyes, while the Aramaic root to the word simply means sweat grapes, making their heaven, the place that is full of what may send you to hell, simply because the connection between the reason and the result was linguistically broken by dropping the lingual roots including any and all civil history , literature and music.Syrian10

https://www.amazon.com/Quran-Misinterpreted-Mistranslated-Misread-Language/dp/0977860698#reader_0977860698.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap_IA-aFUXE.Syrian10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk40dR8UpaU.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Syro-Aramaic_Reading_of_the_Koran.


also history section mentions the Cave of Hira (Islamic tradition relates that Muhammad received his first revelation in the Cave of Hira ) , the name in Arabic is actually the cave of Harra'a rather than Hira.

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Bible

The article states with "citation needed":

"The Quran speaks well[citation needed] of the relationship it has with former books (the Torah and the Gospels) and attributes their similarities to their unique origin and saying all of them have been revealed by the one God"

The statement is misleading, because the more correct citation would be quite the opposite because Muslims and the overwhelming majority of Islamic literature believe that the former books that Islam approve are not what is in circulation today and what is in circulation is no more than modified literature, prohibited from entering or circulating in many Muslim countries. 

There is something in  Islam called ( AL TAKIA),  which means speak and appear well,( or be politically correct)  especially when arguing with al Nasara ( Christians ) and Jews, regardless of what you believe in, what may have been the reason for this article to arrive at it's conclusion but with doubt and citation needed .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_the_Christian_Bible

  • Muslim relation to others is based on two principals,

First submission of others is the final goal including conversion or paying Al-Jizia ( penalty of not converting to Islam ). Second , any land Muslims arrive at becomes muslim land ( and their invasion is called Fatih , meaning opened by the will of God) the people of such occupied land will be automatically considered occupiers. look at the article of Caliph Abdul Malik Ibn Marouan "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_al-Malik_ibn_Marwan". where the Caliph is described to see the Syrian Christians as occupiers , even though they were native Syrians and they were still majority. .....

(O, my little son, thou hast no understanding. Verily he was right, and he was prompted to a worthy work. For he beheld Syria to be a country that had long been occupied by the Christians, and he noted there are beautiful churches still belonging to them, so enchantingly fair, and so renowned for their splendour, as are the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, and the churches of Lydda and Edessa. So he sought to build for the Muslims a mosque that should be unique).

  • Quran approves the Bedouin literature of the bible (http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/477185/jewish/Why-Is-There-So-Much-War-and-Violence-in-Torah.htm ), in what seems to be an alliance of the Bedouin offspring of Able, given the right from God to not only steal civil cities and farms of civil neighbors, but to wipe them out . Islam approve any Bedouin attack on civil cities even if done by Bedouin Jews, : "يَا قَوْمِ ادْخُلُوا الأَرْضَ المُقَدَّسَةَ الَّتِي كَتَبَ اللَّهُ لَكُمْ وَلاَ تَرْتَدُّوا عَلَى أَدْبَارِكُمْ فَتَنقَلِبُوا خَاسِرِينَ ".(SORAh ALMAIDA,20&21) : Remember Moses said to his people: "O my people! Call in remembrance the favour of Allah unto you, when He produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave you what He had not given to any other among the peoples.21. "O my people! Enter the holy land which Allah hath assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin).
  • Quran at the same time not only disapprove the civil literature of the bible, but assumes God is leading a proxy war on those "who call themselves" Christians to make them hate and kill each other. Same Sourah , ALMAIDA. 14 : " وَمِنَ الَّذِينَ قَالُواْ إِنَّا نَصَارَى أَخَذْنَا مِيثَاقَهُمْ فَنَسُواْ حَظًّا مِّمَّا ذُكِّرُواْ بِهِ فَأَغْرَيْنَا بَيْنَهُمُ الْعَدَاوَةَ وَالْبَغْضَاء إِلَى يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ وَسَوْفَ يُنَبِّئُهُمُ اللَّهُ بِمَا كَانُواْ يَصْنَعُونَ ". (http://islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/5.htm )(14. From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done ).

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Encouragement for the sciences

Ibn Khadoun (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Khaldun) defended Islam in it's religious aspect , but with firm quotes of Arabs as barbaric tribes , if went through a country , they will leave it with destruction. Twice in the section mentioned Ibn AlHaitham to be Muslim scientist, presenting The Islamic background and Qur'an to be his encouraging cultural reserve and the reason to be who he was. To not mislead the reader it is very important to know that 

most of his 237 books were lost in the "Islamic scientific environment".
and that he acted as a crazy man to reclaim some of his freedom from the (governor in the name of God in Egypt).

http://kenanaonline.com/users/mhae2016/posts/399007. 

his story , along with many other mistreated scientist is very similar to scientists in the middle ages of Europe. Ib Alhaitham is an Iraqui , traveled to Egypt , in both countries science is deeply rooted before Islam. Environment that had no scientific or civil history, like the Arabian peninsula has not made any advance after Islam, produced no scientists ,  meaning Islam was not the reason behind scientific work in countries like Egypt ,Syria or Iraq.

take any scientist or philosopher from the Islamic controlled countries , and you will see the dark ages of Europe . take for example Ibn Rushd described to be the introducer of secularity to Europe, definitely out of his sufferings of the rigid ,backward religious Islamic political control . (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averroes)where you may read for example : 

.... (Then a number of his enemies in Cordoba, who were jealous of him and were competing with him both in knowledge and nobility, went to Yaqub al-Mansur with excerpts of Abu Walid's work on some old philosophers which were in his own handwriting. They took one phrase out of context that said: "and it was shown that Venus is one of the Gods" and presented it to the king who then summoned the chiefs and noblemen of Córdoba and said to Abu al-Walid in front of them "Is this your handwriting?". Abu al-Walid then denied and the king said "May God curse the one who wrote this" and ordered that Abu al-Walid be exiled and all the philosophy books to be gathered and burned...And I saw, when I was in Fes, these books being carried on horses in great quantities and burned).....
  • Take another scientist : Alkindi, another example of the dark ages (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Kindi#Life}:we read about him in Wikipedia the following....." especially of al-Mutawakkil (r. 847–861), al-Kindi's star waned. There are various theories concerning this: some attribute al-Kindi's downfall to scholarly rivalries at the House of Wisdom; others refer to al-Mutawakkil’s often violent persecution of unorthodox Muslims (as well as of non-Muslims); at one point al-Kindi was beaten and his library temporarily confiscated.Henry Corbin, an authority on Islamic studies, says that in 873, al-Kindi died "a lonely man" Syrian10
  • Al-Biruni also mentioned twice in the article as an example of Islam encouraging science , let us go to the Wikipedia article on Al-Biruni :(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Biruni#Life) to read the following :.........

"An example of Al-Biruni’s analysis is his summary of why many Hindus hate Muslims. He explains that Hinduism and Islam are totally different from each other. Moreover, Hindus in 11th century India had suffered through waves of destructive attacks on many of its cities, and Islamic armies had taken numerous Hindu slaves to Persia which, claimed Al-Biruni, contributed to Hindus becoming suspicious of all foreigners, not just Muslims. Hindus considered Muslims violent and impure, and did not want to share anything with them." .

  • The article states: "The philosopher Muhammad Iqbal, considered the Quran's methodology and epistemology to be empirical and rational.[84]".

also "The astrophysicist Nidhal Guessoum while being highly critical of pseudo-scientific claims made about the Quran, has highlighted the encouragement for sciences that the Quran provides by developing "the concept of knowledge.".[81] He writes: "The Qur'an draws attention to the danger of conjecturing without evidence ". 

......very strong statements that can be easily contested  as in the story of (Isra'a/ The night trip )profit Mohamad was physically flying  through seven skies,  his tool was a donkey-mule  like creature from heaven named  ( AlBuraq) . The profit claimed no divine nature, nor the seven skies were defined, The story did not forget certain physical details like the profit tying the donkey at the site of his prayer in Jerusalem at al-Aqsa , however there was nothing at that time (621 AD) called Al-Aqsa as the primary site for prayer was built later by Khalif Umar , and the story itself was a replica   from what is considered ( Aauthan /Idols beliefs or religions worship stones and rocks) .The night trip story of Isra'a,utilizing same flying donkey like creature,   was a replica from Zradasht  /Zoroastrianism which is a prohibited religion in Islam . (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism )  . Logic is broken here to the extent that symbolism can not be claimed to survive scientific questioning , rationality or"conjecturing without evidence" .The worst here is that the verse of Isra's in Qura'an is a Mekah verse ( from the first chronological half of the revelation) , the half that is aligned with the civil , spiritual , non nomadic style of literature, which raise the question of this verse being incorrectly claimed  or lingual modified to become non symbolic physical trip to the skies.Syrian10
  • interest in science is definitely a social , non religious product . over 1000 years before Islam , we may read the following about Ashurbanipal (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashurbanipal#Art_and_culture) : "Ashurbanipal was proud of his scribal education. He asserts this in the statement: “I Assurbanipal within [the palace], took care of the wisdom of Nebo, the whole of the inscribed tablets, of all the clay tablets, the whole of their mysteries and difficulties, I solved.”.[17] He was one of the few kings who could read the cuneiform script in Akkadian and Sumerian, and claimed that he even read texts from before the great flood. He was also able to solve mathematical problems. During his reign, he collected cuneiform texts from all over Mesopotamia, especially Babylonia, in the library of Nineveh." .AshureBanipal is famous for his letter to governers of the area around 700 BC to collect every tablet or writing in science or literature to be sent to him to add to the central library.
  • In comparison what happened after Islam to Syria , Iraq, Persia and Egypt being controlled by caliph came from the Arabic peninsula ? the most important subject for Muslim Kaliph would be getting more women slaves or intertainment .( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harun_al-Rashid#Popular_culture_and_references) .what we read: "In Charles Dickens' 1842 travelogue, American Notes for General Circulation, he compares American supporters of slavery to the "Caliph Harun al-Rashid in his angry robe of scarlet".

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Text and arrangement

The section "text and arrangements" states the following : "The Muqattaʿat (Arabic: حروف مقطعات ‎‎ ḥurūf muqaṭṭaʿāt "disjoined letters" or "disconnected letters";[70] also "mysterious letters"). .............The original significance of the letters is unknown. "

  • It is important to know that the practice of utilizing such method of introduction letters , was an Aramaic one, where each letter refers to a number , and the total is added in a way only the literate will know what it refers to. for example , The great God Eil was referred to by the number 3600 etc.
  • The role of these numbers is to provide the receiver with check digits,( similar to the check digits technique utilized today between communicating computers to authenticate the message), to find out if the content was modified by any messenger or not ( obviously this will only work using the original 22 letters alphabet ,seen in Sanaa Qur'an). Qur'an asserts this fact by one verse of the creator saying: "we created the Qur'an and we are making it self preserved انا خلقنا القران و انا له لحافظون " . From this point on , we may easily find out that the original message revealed to profit Mohammad is in fact the 29 Surahs introduced and protected by check digits . The additions that Arabs may have tried to create on their own afterward , to leave the world with all the mess and backward values of their own , in the name of God , In one example of their behavior we mention here the incident of profit Mohamad asking them for a pen before death and his fellows led by Omar refusing and saying , the profit is sick leave him alone.

There is enough literature out there on the subject worth to learn about. This issue is actually another reason to find out how much Bedouin Arabs insulted a holly book , by cutting it's roots out of history, literature and civil Aramaic history, only to arrive at the result :( we really do not know what these letters mean, however we will continue to repeat them like parrots to the end of time).

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Calligraphy -History section

The Calligraphy illustrated at the history section reveals very important issue recording the verse of (Alfatiha prayer), which is the introduction prayer before any work or speech and the most repeated words ever by Muslims.

  • Alfatiha as we know it today says referring to two different groups of people " Bismillah ......Grant us the straight path , the path of those blessed by you , not those who are being inflicted with anger ..". ( we may understand here those to be the offspring of Able as mentioned in Cain and Able story, versus those inflicted by anger , the offspring of the guilty farmer Cain ).
  • The words appear on the Calligraphy did not group people but instead used the language of civil common good: "Bismillah .....Grant us the straight path, the path you grant to those who never anger you ".

While Muslims state not even a word can be modified from the time of revelation until the end of time , we find in this example not only different wording , but different meaning, and different rooting to the main core religious story of Cain and Able, for who draws the straight path ? and who says what the straight path is?

  • In today's prayer, human follows his own will in drawing the path and then gets blessed by God . While what we see on the Calligraphy means ,God himself draws the path and then leads human to it as part or an aspect of the blessings .
  • Today's prayer is in alignment with today's Bedouin understanding of Cain and Able, as mentioned in the old testament and in the 28 letters alphabet Quran ,where the offspring of Bedouin Able choose there life style and their blood shedding sacrifices and gifts to God (which is for them the right path) and then expects and gets the God blessings and all the needed excuses.
  • The Calligraphy is clearly based on the logic of common good , not on the good for the chosen people , the offspring of Bedouin Able. It is also in alignment with Christian prayer " ... and forgive our sins ... as much we forgive others " also based on the logic of common good.

When profit Mohamad once asked who is actually gets God's blessing, his answer was, while looking east :" on your right there are Yaman ( the area of the country Yaman) those are blessed . On your left there are Al-Sham ( the Aramaic area of the Levant ) those are blessed ". They then asked him how about the Arabs ( the Bedouin desert area of the Arabic peninsula) , the profit said :Araabs are the worst of the worst (Al ashaddu Nifakan). Yet for some reason , Muslims seem to be following the Arabs in every religious detail, No difference than Jews and Christians departing from the original civil core of the 10 commandments and the new testament to the Bedouin core and literature implemented thereafter.

  • Note : The Calligraphy uses letter (S) as in Aramaic ( ص) for (path الصراط )not as in 28 letters made up later Arabic (س).

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The Woman in Qur'an and Bible correlation

The article did not address the Qur'an view of the Woman, a subject that usually makes the core of understanding any culture.

  • Beside virgin Mary, the woman in Qur'an is a source of impurity and reason for why human left God's paradise after the sin of Eve listening to the snake and enticing Adam .
  • On the other hand, the civil story of the the woman observed in the previous Aramaic religions , the woman (Aunah/ the mother of all) is the source of life granted to Ba'al , to lift him out of the dark and suffering , after defeating and killing the seven heads snake .( a continuing story of Saint George on his horse in Christianity , and of (AL khedir/the green) story told by non Arab, Syrian Muslims).
  • In the Bedouin version of the snake story, The snake's evil will passes to the woman causing the man's fall into the sin , guilt and impurity. In the civil Aramaic version , the snake is killed by the man, the man however gets exhausted and helpless until granted life and strength by the woman who become the pure virgin, mother of all in Aramaic, the pure protected in Moses tables "the non Bedouin Moses of 1592BC", the pure virgin mother of God in Christianity, and the pure virgin mother of Jesus in the 29 check digits Sourahs of QURAN or in other words the non Bedouin part of Quran (example the Sourah of Mary starts with check digits KHAIES كهيعص ).

This correlation opens again the door to discovering that, beside Virgin Mary, the woman in Quran is the product of the Arab Bedouin culture in the Arabic peninsula, before anything else. 

Quran does not use the word ( person ) , but ( man , meaning the male instead) .. example : Prayer rules apply to Men in the desert like saying ( never approach a prayer if you were drunk, touched a woman , or just came back from the feces.... you first need to clean yourself with water or ,if not found, sand ).

Women/43" .... Approach not prayers with a mind befogged, until ye can understand all that ye say,- nor in a state of ceremonial impurity (Except when travelling on the road), until after washing your whole body. If ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hand..."

  • Note the English translation of Qur'an , clearly follows a Shakespearian language , that is understandable , even though translation shall be intended to clarify things not put it in a form that might need another translation... what is new here is (cometh from the offices of nature ? for coming from feces ). That is Inimitable. look how the translation will look using Bing translation (يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ لاَ تَقْرَبُواْ الصَّلاةَ وَأَنتُمْ سُكَارَى حَتَّىَ تَعْلَمُواْ مَا تَقُولُونَ وَلاَ جُنُبًا إِلاَّ عَابِرِي سَبِيلٍ حَتَّىَ تَغْتَسِلُواْ وَإِن كُنتُم مَّرْضَى أَوْ عَلَى سَفَرٍ أَوْ جَاءَ أَحَدٌ مِّنكُم مِّن الْغَائِطِ أَوْ لامَسْتُمُ النِّسَاء فَلَمْ تَجِدُواْ مَاء فَتَيَمَّمُواْ صَعِيدًا طَيِّبًا فَامْسَحُواْ بِوُجُوهِكُمْ وَأَيْدِيكُمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَفُوًّا غَفُورًا)(O ye who believe, pray and come not near you drunk so you know what you are saying and no side except for trespassers even washed and if you are sick or on a journey, or one of you came from faeces or guys come into contact with women, you don't find water, good at the emptiness they wash with clean sand or earth faces and hands that God was oops forgiving ).The Bing clearly looses coherence of meaning in using the word trespassers, however, it shows how the translators of Quran altered the words of feces to become the offices of nature and how they used the approach of explanation rather than translation in saying "in the state of ceremonial impurity" , something strictly prohibited by Quran .

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Ethico-religious concepts

This title in the article is not scratching the surface of what could be better researched here. better understanding of the title may be reached by creating two new titles , Life and death in Quran and Family and The tribe in Quran. without understanding these two subjects , we may not understand the Ethical-religious concepts.

  • Clues exists that what is considered the pillar of Islam today is not relevant to Mohamad massage. Bedouin Arabs simply made their own afterwards. Muslims today pray five times a day, as a must not as a choice. Hadith by Anas Ibn Malik . the first companion to profit Mohamad said on prayer that he prayed on sunset ( once a day).
  • (أخرج أحمد في المسند، والبغوي في شرح السنة، والبوصيري في مختصر الإتحاف، والمقدسي في الأحاديث المختارة، بأسانيدهم عن أنس قال: "ما أعرف فيكم اليوم شيئاً كنتُ أعهده على عهد رسول الله غير قولكم: لا إله إلا الله. قال: فقلت: يا أبا حمزة، الصلاة؟ قال: قد صليت حين تغرب الشمس، )


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Family In Quran

The family in Quran is the tribe. The inheritance of a man after death, for example, goes to his family which is his father , mother , kids and in separate assessment the wife.

The wife in Sharia law ,after the death of her husband , needs the permission of the grandfather to travel with her kids or do anything with their belongings.If the grandfather was deceased, then the rights goes to the uncle and if no uncle it goes to the Judge which is the Judge of the immediate tribe or the super tribe ( AL Khilafa, where all Muslims are brothers) .

The woman is simply hired by the big family , the tribe, to produce kids. For such hire , the man shall pay actual price of assets to the woman Father or legal guardian , such price called "Mahr or down pay مقدم ". If the man decided to divorce, he needs no court , he shall only say " you are divorced " returning the woman to her guardian , however , such return requires him to pay another price or fee called " Muakharمؤخر " .The marriage contract is a hire contract not a partnership one, where the man is required to pay a monthly compensation for satisfying the living needs of the woman for food, cloth and expense of the living space , stressing she is not an equal partner with the man. The man may hire up to four Muslim women at a time under marriage contract ( literally , the correct translation is the MATING CONTRACT, عقد النكاح) , and as many as needed from Non Muslim women under the ownership contract of " Mulk AL Yamin " meaning what owned by own efforts .

  • The relation of the woman with the tribe, is not secured through the husband , the mate, but through the son. her name actually changes to be " Mrs mother of Ali for example, الست ام علي" . Her share of dead husband inheritance is one eight ( that is not part of the 100% shares of the family) , however her share of a dead son inheritance is one quarter. That answers the question of why woman dos not rebel on such insecure family relation , where her position in the tribe, is later escalated and earned to a strong one being the mother of an adult male in the family " the tribe".

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Eschatology, Life and death in Qur'an

The Eschatology section , while well addressed from analytical aspect , it does not address where the Quranic view stands in human history, nor the function of the Quranic view in driving human culture.

  • From analytical point we may never finish gathering all the views recorded throughout history or suggested by philosophers ,thinkers and profits, however human history may be classified into few general trends.
  • First in early history, appeared the tribal Bedouin or nomadic views of life, where human personality is part of the tribe like a cell in human body. The connection among the tribal members is based on blood relation and primitive chain of command. The tribe may establish rules and methods for members to help each other securing food to all , however , asking a member to fight to death is something else , while important for the survival of the tribe , it does not answer the question of why any member shall choose to pay the ultimate price. A reward has to be offered and it shall be in a material form like providing food or sex, resulting in the creation of the early views of afterlife, to be material one preserving human body and identity. In Bedouin tribes, Gods decide who will continue afterlife and who will cease to exist based on judging behavior and following orders.
  • In civil societies , with the rise of Babylonian law , the man's participation in the city army, did not need a reward anymore but instead the power of law. death of a soldier in this case will only serve the good of the city or society or the common human good. death is followed by life granted not to the dying man but his friends or fellow citizens. the self reward became more spiritual like saying my ideas and my love will continue afterlife in smiley faces of my beloved ones. society acquired divine image in the mind of it's members, and in parallel to Babylonian law , the divine doctrine developed also in many forms connecting single human to his social, cultural and natural environment. In The city of Ugarit ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ugarit) a table found telling a quote of AUNAH (The virgin ANAT/ Ishter in Babylon) saying  :" Even Gods may not manipulate the food availability to human , because human society , like Gods, has the quality of eternal existence ". New spiritual awaking across the world , in what was described the AXIAL AGE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_Age) has replaced the material afterlife view of the lawless ,Bedouin nomads of previous human existence.
  • with the rise of the scientific methods of thinking after the Greek philosophers, new material trend came back to the table, refusing whatever classified as divine ,resulting in the new vision of no such thing called after life exists and human, by death, simply stop to exist, a big shock to social life and to the ways of human persuasion of happiness . Positive and brain storming fight was initiated between the two trends , between Epicurus school, from the scientific Greek trend (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurus) and between the Zeno of Citium school from the natural divine Aramaic/ Canaanite trend (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeno_of_Citium) around 300 BC. Zeno for example did not believe an individual will continue to exist afterlife, however the connection with divine nature is available during life. Zeno quoted saying, I chose to not have a son, because I do not want him to die. His attitude was a bridge, like his life traveling from the Phoenician area to Greece where he,like Epicurus, thought there is no individual afterlife but with his Canaanite attitude in persuading happiness within eternity. Human eternity he thought exists, if human term included not only the individual body and identity , but also his natural and social environment connected spiritually by wisdom with universe. The blood connection was completely broken in both schools of Epicurus and Zeno, and humanity seemed leaving behind the tribal age.

The Arabic peninsula, remained out of the civil axial age probably until today, refusing and resisting anything that might threaten the tribal way of life. The Civil character of Moses 1592BC and his tables and universal values were reverted to the Bedouin Judaic Moses of 1391BC leading his tribe in Sinai desert with followers mainly in the Arabic peninsula especially in MEDINA ( known as Yathreb before becoming the capital to the new Islamic age ). Christian new testament was challenged by Christian tribes in the Arabic peninsula who simply denied the divine nature of Jesus, created there own church ( where the name of profit Mohamad father Abdullah , may refer to be one of this church) . The spiritual start of Quran in it's spiritual SOURAHS labeled with check digits, were completely reversed by the rest of Qur'an concentrating thereafter on the material description of afterlife to continue and secure the tribal reward system to it's members.

Wile In Judaism beliefs of life and death and of afterlife were mostly left to be individual thing and while in Christianity afterlife was vague but mostly a spiritual existence and story of life defeating death and happiness defeating pain, Qur'an was very strict enforcing the beliefs of material afterlife in it's tribal function , of God granting life or death , pain or happiness to those who follow orders and those who do not.The Qur'anic view dominated the religious views up to the 21st century including Jews and Christians who noticed that using the tribal reward system may gain them better expansion and control , including adopting the idea of the end of time day, the return of the savior and the end of human life as we know it in Armageddon, wiping out thousands of years of the axial age.

scholars today find the end day to be exact copy story in main religions, if only we change the names of it's characters. Even in civil Europe, we may notice that the the style of the European man practicing Epicurus scientific view on weekdays and Zeno of Citium on weekends becoming a minority and the Bedouin offspring of Able wearing a tie with material views of the afterlife and a Bedouin barbaric attitude after Cain and Able in it's tribal copy, becoming the main stream culture.

Judgment in the end of time by God, is part of Judicial Islamic Khilafa, where Muslim judges may start a judgment and then God will continue to enforce in the after life.

  • SOURAT AL_MAIDA,38&39 (وَالسَّارِقُ وَالسَّارِقَةُ فَاقْطَعُواْ أَيْدِيَهُمَا جَزَاء بِمَا كَسَبَا نَكَالاً مِّنَ اللَّهِ وَاللَّهُ عَزِيزٌ حَكِيمٌ

39. فَمَن تَابَ مِن بَعْدِ ظُلْمِهِ وَأَصْلَحَ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ يَتُوبُ عَلَيْهِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ) .(http://islam101.com/quran/yusufAli/QURAN/5.htm).(38. As to the thief, Male or female, cut off his or her hands: a punishment by way of example, from Allah, for their crime: and Allah is Exalted in power.

39. But if the thief repents after his crime, and amends his conduct, Allah turneth to him in forgiveness; for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.). Also ALMida,33: (The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;).

Syr10

Qur'an and copy Mistakes

Some words in Qur'an has no meaning, even though, they were adopted as is , based on the belief that Qur'an is preserved by God himself, and writers ( copiers ) can not simply make mistakes.

source :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMWDvLG_Dhk

  • Sourah S/16 ,Translated from Arabic by bing : (They said our Lord our haste our cat before judgment day. ).

The word in Arabic actually means cat , and has no meaning what so ever . The English version is only the opinion of the translators. The source video contains other examples.

Syr10

Qur'an and English translation Mistakes

Sourah Saba or "Sheba" No 34/ 9: (https://www.quran.com/34:9) (Do they not reflect upon what lies before them and behind them, of the heaven and the earth If We will, We can make the earth cave in beneath them, or make pieces of the sky fall down on them. In that is a sign for every devout servant.)

  • The translation ( like bing will do the same ) is suggesting the language of "planet earth" positioned against "Heaven" ? . The correct translation is the sky and the Ground not the heaven and the earth , where ground is referring here to what may collapse under their feet ( no need for trying to suggest that the SOURAH recognizes the planetary arrangement of earth around sun).
  • Also positioning Planet earth against heaven ? in saying before them and behind them of heaven and earth . The translator is trying here to drive the image of a modern man talking about earth behind his life and heaven ahead of him in his future , while the SOURAH is only talking about something collapsing under feet and about things falling from sky .
  • It is clearly a schizophrenic behavior of Qura'n believers , to think whatever came in Qura'n is an act of God that shall be taken as descriptive, definitive and not symbolic, and then try to fit the symbolic referrals to scientifically fit a modern use of terms and words .
  • Some translations were intentionally modified, whenever the word seemed unacceptable to English reader: SOURAH SABA, 34:25
  • In one translation:

the word (crime is translated as sin) ( http://noblequran.com/translation/surah34.html).""You will not be asked about our sins, nor shall we be asked of what you do. "

  • In another translation same word our crime was translated as what we committed. (https://quran.com/34:25).Say, "You will not be asked about what we committed, and we will not be asked about what you do."

The correct translation:

  • (قُل لاَ تُسْأَلُونَ عَمَّآ أَجْرَمْنَا وَلاَ نُسْأَلُ عَمَّا تَعْمَلُونَ). ( Say you will not be asked about our crimes , and we will not be asked about what you do).Bing translation is not correct , however it shows the correct word to use is "crime " and not sin :(Say, don't you wonder what commit a crime us and don't ask what you're doing).

Syr10

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