Talk:Pint glass

568ml vs 570ml

Pint glasses should be 568ml. That is the conversion from imperial fluid ounces to millilitres and therefore is what a PINT is. Yes, you may find some glasses are actually 570ml, but how does this affect the consumer? You are not short changing them in any way, shape or form.

All pint glasses that my employer buys are 568ml - and indeed, all the branded promo glasses from the individual lager/cider brewers are 568ml (and marked accordingly). Half pint glasses are marked 284ml. Unless you can find a reference to a reliable source on the use of 570ml glasses then I doubt your information.

How do you know they are 568 mL and not 570 mL? If they hold 570 mL that is what they are. Some manufacturers will label them as 568 mL if that is what the purchasers wants them to say, but they don't make a special glass that is 2 mL shy just to please Luddites. Also, you can not divide 568 into thirds and get a round number. When you divide 570 mL into thirds, you get 190 mL.

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Please sign each submission, at least with "205.177.176.242 (talk) 13:28, 16 October 2013 (UTC)" (as an example - it's done by using four tilde's) as the conversation tends to flow into each other looking like someone is making a statement that he subsequently disagrees with. Also - using the term "Luddite" against someone effectively resolves the argument because in many cases the calling of names hides the underlying knowledge that the person issuing the insult is simply wanting people to believe his point of view, no matter how unfounded and ridiculous it may seem.

I need to add, though, that UK glasses do not have the metric equivalent etched into the glass since no change has been made to their manufacture and use over time. It's entirely possible that boxes containing such containers quotes a translation to 568ml however I do not have that information to hand. The challenge is to find a UK pint glass in a pub that has any form of metric announcement on it. It does not exist as millions of Brits would confirm this on a Friday night! 205.177.176.242 (talk) 13:29, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

(Pedantic correction over "manufacture and use over time" in that the UK Crown insignia has been replaced by an EU symbol - thus making the UK even MORE warming and supportive of being inside the EU <cough> ) 205.177.176.242 (talk) 13:47, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

The real reason for the replacement of the crown by a CE(?) symbol was the privatization of the industry that verifies the size of the glass. Just as MoTs are carried out by private garages, verifying measuring devices such as petrol pumps, beer mugs etc is carried out by private firms. Firms are licenced to do the checks by national governments, but follow international standards. The upshot is that pint glasses made in the UK can be sold in Ireland without having a harp etched onto them and vice-versa. The crown was removed because government-appointed trading standards officers no longer do the job.

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You make a genuinely interesting point, however I wonder why there should be a CE (non-privatized) symbol and not a UK style 'permitted' stamp. The irony is that although it's possible to get a real pint in Europe the normal practice is to serve a 'pint' that could be anything from 450ml to 600ml. In Paris you can ask for a pint and get 500ml in certain places. The irony is that the very place that does not regulate a pint internally is clarifying a 'proper pint' as used in the UK and Ireland. Furthermore - if the CE accreditation is to qualify that a glass holds a real pint (ie that of 20 oz, not one that is a translation of 568ml despite it being exactly the same) then continental countries are - technically - only allowed to serve pints based on the UK type. In this case the pint has grown from being a 'UK / IRL only' specification to being a real measure across the whole of Europe. Wacky. 78.147.224.171 (talk) 21:19, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

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In the real world manufacturers don't always follow a conversion especially if the conversion doesn't work out to a rounded number. They deliberately will round the value to male it easier to make and easier to market. 68.105.199.216 (talk) 17:03, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

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Strange as it may seem - pub pints are not defined via metric or converted etc. They are simply "1 pint glasses" - there's no reference to metric although you can use maths to get an equivalent 78.147.224.171 (talk) 19:26, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Comments

The article needs to be updated to show that UK pint glasses are not 568 mL but instead made to a rounded 570 mL. You can google the internet and find countless examples of 570 mL pint glasses being advertized.

This may have something to do with pint glasses now being made in metric countries. Just like the Chinese producing wood products in 1220 mm x 2440 mm instead of 1219.2 x 2438.4, glass makers in metric countries will produce to a rounded metric value, usually to the nearest 5 or 10 mm or mL. Whereas anti-metric types harp on precise non-rounded metric equivalents, the people in metric countries have no problem producing the product to a rounded metric amount.

http://www.polysafe.com.au/570mL%20Pint%20Glass.html

http://beerpintglass.com/1-x-570ml-1-pint-tooheys-new-etched-glass-beer-stein/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.252.146.105 (talk) 13:23, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

An *official* pint glass in the UK is 20oz (fl). Due to the way the law works at a technical level the figure is NOT derived from the metric amount of 568 ml (or thereabouts). This is due to the fact that the unit was not altered by law via the UK or EU (obviously the UK pint may have been different many many years ago prior to any standardization). Of course it is well known that 1 pint is approximately 568ml but using that conversion as a pre-requisite of the UK measure is thinking about it the wrong way. The pint started off as just that - "A Pint". No-one recoded it to metric in order to translate it back into imperial. One hundred kilometers of road in France can also be measured out at 62 miles. Following the above 568/570 argument could be extended to say that - in fact - the piece of French road is 62 miles which translates to 100 km. Of course it is true to be able to use either unit and have the same degree of accuracy and have the same result but one must take into consideration the root of the usage and whether or not it has been changed for codification and thus leave one of the (equally valid) measurement name as "officially better so the other measure is just a brand-style name".

It is easy to find shops, blogs, etc to make a pint various sizes in an attempt to pretend that it is variable or even metric defined however an encyclopedia should not 'mature' using carefully selected websites as proof of something. Working in this fashion would lead to the existence of goblins and that magicians can actually disappear.

With this in mind I fully doubt that Ireland has changed it's own pint. Bear in mind that the UK has no say on how the Irish pub inventory works (except the North) so it is quite possible that they could change the unit size despite the UK not doing so. I find this extremely hard to believe though. Ireland is facing - and has been facing - an economic melt-down in recent years and the policy makers and politicians are doing whatever they can to steady their economy and try to get Ireland in to healthy growth again. I find it slightly disturbing that there would be motions being discussed in the Dial (government) to add 2ml to the size of their pint so that they could 'make it look all metric' due to it being semi-rounded to the most tiny degree.

Also - If a customer gets given a pint (UK or IRL) the chances are it will never be precisely 20 ounces (as other parts of this discussion has covered). So while there is an approximation element PLUS lack of interference regarding standardization PLUS no publicity for a 'switchover' to something that barely fills a teaspoon PLUS the total waste of money such a move would create I propose that the item mentioning a 570ml pint for Ireland be changed to either read 'equivalent to 568ml' or more aptly (and historically accurately) 20 fluid ounces, reflecting the history of the measure.

I will refrain -for the moment- from altering the particular item so that proof can be received from a source such as the Irish weights and measurement committee, a successful house motion, or a policy change derived from a 'Yes' vote in the house (Dail).

Using a search engine such a 'google' with a biased search string such as "The Irish pint is 570ml" and using the results from totally unofficial sources (shops, novelties, opinions from other forums, etc) should not be allowed for the purpose of harming the referential integrity of Wikipedia.

It is important that people should be able to trust Wikipedia more and more as the system matures and as such, the one person (i.p. consistent) - who has an issue with imperial measures and their existence - should either refrain from damaging Wikipedia based wholly upon an odd hobby of denigrating imperial or have his deliberate inaccuracies lead to a ban (and I hate bans). 205.177.176.242 (talk) 13:19, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

The curved pint glasses are not properly called "tulips". Tulip glasses are a wine/cognac-type glass usually used for serving Belgian ales, imperial stouts, and other very complex beers. Jamesg 03:38, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Added image - hope you like it. At least its free. Might take more later, but this was best of 50 or so. Justinc 01:58, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Looks good to me, better than the previous photo. Edward 11:29, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Like the photo! Was looking up Martini (the cocktail) and came across this, which is funny considering I got the biggest head I'd ever seen on a pint of Guinness earlier! I've got a few images on my phone I could upload if needed, but the resolution is really poor. EVOCATIVEINTRIGUE TALKTOME | EMAILME | IMPROVEME 23:46, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Whether or not curved glasses are properly "tulip" glasses, in my experience they are almost universally known as that ([1], [2], for example) so it is rather daft to argue over it, IMO. DWaterson 18:24, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

In the article it says: "to serve a product in a container such as a pint glass that is badged as being another product." Should "badged" be changed so that American-English speakers can understand? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.208.37.104 (talk) 06:17, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Good point. What would the US English be? SimonTrew (talk) 09:46, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

UK law: cutting

Last time I was in England, all of the bars 'cut' their pints (see my addition to the article). Anyone know if there's an actual term for this?

I was told that this 'cutting' was legislated. Is this a newer version of the law quoted in the article?

Wednesday, 2006-11-22 04:38 UTC

Not sure that you mean by "cut". In Britain, the law is that a pint has to be at least 95% liquid. It is accepted that in a pint glass of beer (that is, a glass officially stamped as containing no more & no less that a pint) there will be some head. CAMRA campaign about this constantly and want the law changed so a pint has to be 100% liquid. Which means no head whatsoever or - as one finds at beer festivals and some pubs - lined glasses - where the glass is offically stamped, but instead of being an exact pint measure, there is a line on it near the top which says "PINT TO LINE" or something similar. Hope that helps! --SandyDancer 09:53, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Where does that 95% come from. The weight and Measure (Beer and CIder) 1997 specifically states that "Any reference to a quantity of beer or cider in any provision made under section 22 above in relation to the sale of draught beer or cider shall be construed as a reference to that quantity disregarding the gas comprised in any foam on the beer or cider" which seems to me to say that a pint is a pint of liquid.

To get 100% liquid, you have to overflow the glass, and get rid of the excess on top, so you take a flat object like a spatula or something and run it over the top. I'm surprised that you haven't seen this, as I saw it several times, although I can't remember if it was in London or elsewhere. 216.99.44.191 01:09, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and I also never saw that in the Netherlands :) 216.99.44.191 01:10, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree with SandyDancer. Although this might be some sort of Continental affectation in a few London bars, it would be extremely unusual (so as to be unheard-of) in any ordinary pub elsewhere. Generally, if you consider that your pint has too deep a head, you ask the bartender to top it up. They will then add a little more beer, allowing some of the froth to overflow from the glass; but nevertheless this will still leave a small(er) amount of head on the beer. Indeed, I can't imagine why you would want 100% liquid - that would be considerably deleterious to the overall taste and appearance of the beverage. DWaterson 01:16, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

*I* wouldn't want it, but are you really surprised that in a country that legislates how full a pour of beer must be, people actually want their glass topped up? I've seen this somewhere in U.K., not sure where. 216.99.44.69 09:23, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

I have seen this a lot (and done it myself a few times when I worked in bars) but it was normally after pouring a pint (with head) and then cutting the flumpy parts of the head that extend beyond the glass (the large foamy top would look sort of like an ice cream so people would remark 'can i get a flake with that'). it was just to make the pint look good. If you have someone pouring a pint of guiness and they mis-pour it so the head is messy then normally they'll top it up and cut the head off to give a 'clean' looking pint. You'll only see it if your bar person is dealing with a very foamy tap or they're terrible at pouring good pints. Jaymzcd (talk) 16:04, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

I have found the more normal solution if a beer is particularly "heady" (this is often true for the first few pints on the day when gas pressure has built up in barrel overnight) is to ask the customer to take a few sips then top it up again. I suppose this may be strictly illegal, I can't really think why it would be, but is a perfectly good solution I think.

New EU law

They are going to remove the crown from the glass and change the measurements to metric. [3] Buc 07:02, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

About the new CE etching in pint and half pint glasses, I read that that's not because these glasses are not manufactured in the UK but elsewhere, where presumably the crown doesn't mean anything therefore it must have the EU standard symbol. Anybody know whether this is true? --80.38.96.244 (talk) 13:38, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Nonic Glass

I seem to remember when I worked in a pub for a while, the Nonic glass (straigh sided with a bulge near the top) was always referred to as a "Head-Keeper" - presumably the design is thought to preserve the head of the beer, though how this might work I don't know.

I also recall that the pub (a Bass house, for what it's worth) had a choice of Nonic and Tulip glasses, and that most patrons preferred lager to be served in Nonic glasses and Bitter/Cider in tulips.

If any of that isn't just the idiosyncracies of the Blacksmith's Arms in Huntington, then it might be worth mentioning...? Brickie 12:53, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I must admit I'm not familiar with the term "head-keeper" - surely the bulge would be much too low to have any impact on the head of the beer. On the glass types, in actual fact I'd say that in my experience the reverse is most common - ale in nonic glasses and lager in tulips. However, personally I rather like the shape of tulip glasses for ale myself... DWaterson 20:25, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

• 
  (#1) Pint Glass (Pub)
• 
  (#2) Pint Glass (Mixing)
• 
  (#3) Pilsner Glass (Standard)
• 
  (#4) Pilsner Glass (Hourglass)
• 
  (#5) Pilsner Glass (Footed)

Are these the two different styles of which you speak? While I was making these images, my bartending source (U.S., just like I am) simply called (#1) a "Pub glass" (which are apparently somewhat uncommon in the U.S., unless you go to a bar that tries to capture the European feel), and (#2) was a "Pint glass" or a "Mixing glass" (since they are commonly used for that purpose as well). It strikes me as odd that there are marking lines and such, or even that the bartenders are supposed to be so careful about measurements. Maybe I just have watched too many bad bartenders, but most seem to have little care as to how much precisely goes into the glass. I've certainly never seen anyone use a spatula or anything like that to shave the head off. What an amusing concept. I'm generalizing here, but I'm guessing that many more Americans would rather get drunk fast than observe the nuances of proper drinking, at least compared to many Europeans. (And generalizations like that are bound to get me in trouble with either somebody who resents that statement or resembles it. :-) Beyond that bit of ethnocentric information, I can't really shed any light on the subject. I'd be curious to know what people from elsewhere (even in the U.S. if different) call these two glasses.

I've included three other images I created of various pilsner glasses (on the wrong talk page, I suppose, but it's a related issue). #3 I was told is a "standard" pilsner glass, and #4 was an "hourglass" one used with wheat beers, and #5 was for use in more upscale restaurants and at banquet settings (such as in hotel ballroom events). I'd appreciate any comments on these three, too. Thanks! --Willscrlt (Talk·Cntrb) 14:04, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

1. In my experience, they are often commonly called "handled" glasses (as the bulge acts a handle to provide grip if the glass is slippery). However, "nonic" seems to be the semi-official term; I'd guess that "pub glass" is just a US term to describe the type of glass which is by far the most common in a "British pub" as it were.
2. Never heard it called a "mixing glass" - I'd take that term to mean something much smaller like a tumbler or high-ball glass for spirits with mixers. "Pint glass" is literally accurate but not very descriptive - this article uses the term "conical", in my experience they're often simply called "straight-sided" glasses (as opposed to the more common (in the UK) nonic type).
3. Yep, I'd agree, though probably just as many pilsner glasses are conical shaped (but smaller than a conical pint glass - 200-300ml volume) like [4]
4. Possibly, though in my experience wheat beer glasses are often even longer and slimmer than type #3. However, the popular Hoegaarden brand is always served in chunky soda glasses thus: [5].
5. Again, possibly, though often footed pilsner glasses are almost like oversized red wine glasses with a distinct stem as well as just a foot, like [6]. DWaterson 21:08, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

#4 looks like the branded glass that Kronenbourg Blanc comes in. Hoegaarden comes in its own glass which is, as you say, similar in design to a club soda glass - but then pretty much every Belgian beer has its own glass - check out the one for Kwak. Brickie 16:18, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Reason for Shape

My understanding about the bulge in a Nonic glass was that it is for strength when treated roughly - if you knock two pint glasses together, or knock one over then a conical glass will take the impact at the edge where it is already weak due to being an edge, yet a Nonic glass takes the impact on a curved section which is the strongest shape. Matt Beard (talk) 08:36, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

etched

Is this true:

"United Kingdom law requires certain steps be taken to ensure that a pint of beer is indeed a pint. Though this can be achieved using so-called "metered dispense" (calibrated pumps), the more normal solution is to use certified one-pint glasses. These have a crown stamp and number etched upon them." (my emphasis)

- Metered 'perfect pint' systems are used - for example - at rugby stadium bars where the throughput of humans is enormous, esp at half time. There are different types - I have seen a system that spins each pint glass and brims it, followed by a cap "MacDonalds style" 205.177.176.242 (talk) 14:04, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

- all the glasses I have ever seen have I think had the info printed on them in some way. If actually etched, the marks would be below the surface of the glass. If it is true you should probably change the link to Etching (glass). Johnbod 19:45, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

No, I've seen them etched. It doesn't wear off with use like ink, so I can see the value of it. I'll have a google for suppliers to the licensed trade to see if I can find something to back that up.Brickie 16:10, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

The glass on my desk which was "liberated" from a pub in England (£6 for ½ a pint, I decided the glass was included...) is etched with "CE ½ PT" and some numbers I can't read (too much sunlight in here), it's very faint -- I've had this glass on my desk for ages and not noticed it before. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.86.151.120 (talk) 16:38, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Crown stamped glasses used to be done by sand blasting, but some manufacturers now use laser etching equipment

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Scratch markings on the base on glasses

Can something be said about these? For example, Carling glasses definitely have them. I was told that they're there so that a good head forms, but don't know if that's true. 80.2.18.139 (talk) 00:56, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

I believe this is called a 'nucleated glass'. The style of the marking is for visual appearance as far as I know. There some info regarding these here: http://www.barbox.com/templates/Home/barBible/bbArticle.aspx?id=2438

All Coors lager glasses are now nucleated to make a great pint even greater. Special nucleation points at the bottom of the glass provide a point for the CO2 to ‘break out’ of the lager to form and maintain the correct head. It’s the little things that make a difference - read on for more top tips!

They do work :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaymzcd (talk • contribs) 12:44, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

I've added a section to that effect and also a photo, luckily my friend always drinks carling, so I had an example one lying around to photograph. Jaymzcd (talk) 13:30, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Cheers for that :-) 80.7.186.169 (talk) 21:24, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

CE

Why is there an EU directive pertaining to certification of an imperial measurement? --Random832 (contribs) 03:32, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Because the UK (and I think Eire) has an exemption whereby draught beer can (indeed must) be sold as a pint. It still comes under the general metrication rules-- the measure and its metrication are two separate things. SimonTrew (talk) 16:04, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

It can be considered a metric measure if the mark is actually calibrated to 570 mL. Eire does not recognise the British 568 mL definition of a pint, and legally declares the pint to be 570 mL. If the pint mark is meant to be a trade name for 570 ml, then everyone is happy. 68.105.199.216 (talk) 17:06, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Do you have a citation for this? Page 11 of this EU document states that the pint is 0.5683 litres. Martinvl (talk) 19:51, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Numbers on crown-stamped glasses (UK)

Does anyone know what these numbers are? They seem pretty random. I would at one time have guessed they were the inspection ofice stamp or something but in the same pub you can find lots of different numbers. SimonTrew (talk) 16:03, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Google "uk pint mark numbers meaning" and you'll find the pint number number relates to the UK Weights and Measures Authority allowed to issue the stamp, either gov office or manufacturer. Seems like I found a math prof in CO that had a page about it. I just found this page [7]. That page says 1370 is Derbyshire, 2043 is glass manufacturer Cristallerie D'Arques. For CE marked with somethng like "M08" I think M=Measure and 08=2008 i.e. the year.

Badged/branded etc

Mention of badged/branded glasses is is now split across three sections:

• In the UK section, to mention passing off.
• In the nucleated glass section.
• In the collector's section.

In none of them is it excessively wordy, nor contradictory. I wonder however if we should gather them up into a little individual section and then just call them "branded" from then on? Also some glasses are especially moulded/cast with the brand logo prominent (or recessed). I have a few Stella glasses like this. I am not sure how well this would come out in a photo, without careful lighting. SimonTrew (talk) 16:49, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Measure Marks - Single Section or Topic

I would like to see a single section documenting possible measurement marks seen on beer glasses. Older UK is pretty easy with the Crown mark on Pints and halfs, explaining the numbers could be done. I think the EU currently does all the glasses with a CE mark, but I am not sure. I think German glasses of the past had a mark from the glass manufacturer. I have them with VEBA, SAHM, RASTAL. Irish have the NSAI marks. Polish beer Zywiec glasses have a mark that states "Zywiec" next to it so the beer maker is certifying? I suppose this doesn't belong under Pint as many are parts of liter measure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.245.225.131 (talk) 14:08, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

The article is called "Pint glass" not "Beer glass" so any such section would be inappropriate here . You could include such a section on the Beer glassware page though, if you were prepared to do the necessary research. ♦ Jongleur¹⁰⁰ ♦ ^talk 16:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

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Possible source

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-27188915

©Geni (talk) 21:12, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Bulged glasses (Irish glasses)

There are an another shape for glasses usually associated to Ireland. These glasses are bulged.

[glass]

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Brexit

How will the markings be done post-Brexit? Obviously not CE, will we see a return to the crown? Martin of Sheffield (talk) 21:39, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Broadly speaking, the CE mark is to be replaced by UKCA marking (but see UKCA marking#Northern Ireland). The latest deadline is 1 January 2023. NebY (talk) 22:44, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. Pity the crown isn't returning, but that would require bureaucratic common sense, an oxymoron if ever there was! Will you be updating the article? Martin of Sheffield (talk) 08:08, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

I wasn't planning to. All I know is that the overall deadline for replacing CE has been put back, not how any of it applies to pint glasses. You can have this one. :) NebY (talk) 10:35, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

 Done I've added a minimal sentence since we are still in a transition phase. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 11:44, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

"within the EU"

It seems that this part should be updated ? 2A01:CB00:840E:2D00:E8C8:A482:9F82:90E6 (talk) 12:45, 30 July 2023 (UTC)