Talk:Pilate cycle

A fact from Pilate cycle appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 11 February 2022 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that letters and reports continued to appear under Pontius Pilate's name for centuries after his death?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2022/February. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Pilate cycle.

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Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 09:25, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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... that Pontius Pilate continued writing letters and reports for centuries after his death? Source: Offline books, but see http://www.oxfordbiblicalstudies.com/article/book/acprof-9780198261827/acprof-9780198261827-div1-150 for a summary / table of contents to JK Elliot, one of the sources.
- ALT1: ... that apocrypha forged in the name of Pontius Pilate continued to be produced for centuries after his death?
- ALT0b: ... that "Pontius Pilate" continued writing letters and reports for centuries after his death?
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Bobbie Wygant
- Comment: The main hook is intentionally silly and eye-catching, while the alt is phrased more seriously. I'd mildly prefer the main suggestion.

Created by SnowFire (talk). Self-nominated at 02:29, 20 January 2022 (UTC).[reply]

Article is well sourced and written, and fulfills all the DYK criteria. Fact is sourced (I was actually able to find an online version through my university library), and both hooks are interesting. If we were going with the first one, I suggest that we put scare quotes around "Pontius Pilate", so we can emphasize that these are misattributions. Normsupon (talk) 00:16, 25 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- Added that suggestion as ALT0b above. Thanks! SnowFire (talk) 02:04, 25 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - There are various paragraphs lacking citations. As a thumb rule, we'll need at-least a citation at the end of a para, regardless if it is repeated. Ping me when replying. – Kavyansh.Singh (talk)
    - SL93 (talk) 23:58, 30 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
@Kavyansh.Singh and SL93: Added the requested citations. SnowFire (talk) 05:41, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
- @SnowFire: I'm- feeling a little thick. Where could I find the hook fact (or its unquirked version) in the article? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/they) 01:32, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  - @Theleekycauldron: In the "Background" section, it says that Pontius Pilate's term as governor was from 26–36 AD. His death date isn't known, but he definitely wasn't a teenager or the like when he was appointed governor, so he was definitely dead by 100 AD at the latest (40-70 AD a more likely range). The hypothesized dates of authorship listed for all of the works are way, way after that - the 2nd century (aka 100-199) at the absolute earliest for the Anaphora Pilati / Letter of Pilate to Claudius / Acts of Pilate (although probably much later in all three cases), and most being written in the 4th, 5th, or 6th centuries (e.g. the various Letter of Pilate to XYZs), all forged in Pilate's name. (There's some even later works listed too, although they generally claim to be about Pilate rather than literally written by Pilate.) So the citations on the paragraphs with dates of authorship are the relevant ones for the hook. SnowFire (talk) 03:43, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

ALT0 to T:DYK/P3

Archko Volume[edit]

Please would an editor with sufficient understanding of the various sources ensure that this document is given due coverage in the article:

https://archive.org/details/archkovolumeorth028454mbp/page/n7/mode/2up

The Archko Volume Or The Archeological Writings Of The Sanhedrim And Talmuds Of The Jews

Chapter 8: Valleus' Notes – Acta Pilati, or Pilate's report to Caesar of the arrest, trial and crucifixion of Jesus.

– Fayenatic London 14:32, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Fayenatic london: I believe this is a version of the "Letter of Pilate to Tiberius" in the article. It's to Tiberius, and it says "Being too weak to suppress an insurrection, I resolved upon adopting a measure that promised to restore the tranquillity of the city without subjecting the prastorium to humiliating concession." This seems to match the comment on Pilate saying he executed Jesus to stop a revolt. Most of the scholars who write about this are people interested in early Christianity, so they don't seem to give this one a lot of attention as it's thought to originate from Renaissance-era Christianity instead. But if you can find a good scholarly source to expand on it, certainly room to do so. SnowFire (talk) 15:40, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@SnowFire: Thank you, that looks right. For reference, here is another link to chapter 8 itself. – Fayenatic London 20:14, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, Archko Volume should not be given any coverage here, as it was soon identified as a fraudulent compilation, and has its own article about the hoax. – Fayenatic London 17:34, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting article. And for excluding it here... well, maybe. M. R. James does mention it at s:The Apocryphal New Testament (1924)/Infancy Gospels/A modern Infancy Gospel, but it's like... a brief sentence. So the real problem is probably lack of content (the others aren't any more accurate, so being inauthentic is not exactly a reason to exclude it). SnowFire (talk) 19:02, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]