Talk:Nor'easter/Archive 1

Archive 1

npov

How exactly does this entry come across as NPOV? Is the writer too much in favor of the nor'easter? Does this person seem to editorialize too much on the nature of nor'easters? IS THERE A CHANCE THAT THE NYT WILL RUN A STORY ON HOW WIKIPEDIA WAS UNFAIR TO NOR'EASTERS? ... Yeah. Removing the NPOV warning. 204.69.40.7 13:31, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Blizzard of the hot year???????

What on earth is the bilzzard of the hot year??? Is that the nor'easter that is happening right now? Evan Robidoux 16:04, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

I'd call that one the Blizzard of February 2006. CrazyC83 17:47, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Somewhat Common Misuse

I live near Boston. I've noticed a fair number of people reversing the nor'easter definition; they seem under the impression that nor'easter means that a storm is heading to the northeast instead of coming from it. This particularly seems to occur in the case of storm systems coming up the coast from the mid-atlantic states and then heading out to sea to the northeast from new england. I haven't bothered to find any print or broadcast uses of this backwards definition; I would be very surprised to see a weatherman use it backwards, seems more a mistake of ignorant people, like the common confusion between biweekly and semiweekly. It's possible that people like using the term so much that they are seizing any chance to make use of it. I'm not going to add this to the article, since I have no citations, but it's something to keep a watch on. Akb4 00:11, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

My understanding from the years I lived in Providence was that in a northeaster, the storm itself is heading up the coast from the southwest, but the wind (and, crucially, the rain, snow, and sleet) blows in from the northeast. Endlessly. (Or maybe it just seemed that way. :) /blahedo (t) 19:16, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Note that the name refers to the direction of the wind over land, not the direction of travel of the whole storm system. Any cyclone off the east coast of North America will have its northwest quadrant over the Atlantic seaboard, and therefore its winds will be blowing from the northeast toward the southwest due to the Coriolis effect. Whether a storm is traveling up the coast or down it does not matter; it's whether its center lies off the coast that classifies it as a nor'easter or not. 72.195.135.175 15:13, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

It would be useful to explain this a bit in the article. I am familiar with the correct use of the term but unfamiliar with the relevance of the north-west quadrant. Richardson mcphillips (talk) 13:35, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

Why only New England?

Why is only New England considered a source for the term "nor'easter?" The storms affect Virginia and Carolina too (as in the storm there this weekend); that region might have originated the term too. 74.131.102.124 19:07, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Is a nor'easter any different from what would be called a tropical storm or hurricane farther south? Art LaPella 18:29, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

The term is from England. They were using it in the 1500's.

The definition of a noreaster is an extratropical cyclone. The one we are having this weekend (4/15/07) is not spinning at all. It's just a cold front. There is no vortex, no cyclone, just media hype. Morgan Wright 16:43, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

First of all, the nor'easter of April 15, 1007 was a spinning low pressure system and it did have a vortex. The low pressure dropped to 969 millibars. That would make it a very strong nor'easter.

Anyway, a nor'easter is differnet than a tropical cyclone, because a nor'easter is a 'Cold Centered Low Pressure System'. A hurricane is a 'Warm centered low pressure system. Even if a cold front moved into warm waters of the south, it would not form a tropial cyclone because the nor'easter would not be a Cold centered low.Juliancolton 21:28, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

I grew up in Washington D.C. My father, who had lived in both New York and New England (New London, CT, in the 1950's), used the term in the 1960's when nobody else in the D.C. area used it, and I have the impression that he told me the term was from New England. At the time, he used it to describe a strong storm system in the fall or winter that lasted one or two days, and not in the technical meteorological sense it is currently used for. But I suspect that most of the storms called nor'easters in New England actually were nor'easters in the current sense. So unless anybody has any better evidence, I'd suggest sticking with the New England origin. Peterwshor (talk) 00:38, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Pronunciation

I've lived in Connecticut for 24 years and I've never heard anyone pronounce it “naw-EE-stuh” like the Boston accent on "lob-stuh" (Lobster). I wouldn't be surprised if Bostoners slaughter the pronounciation of nor'easter the same way they do for "lobster," "chowder," and most other things they try to say, but this mispronounciation of the word is certainly NOT the way most New Englanders say it. Suggesting that it is is completely idiotic. 70.135.203.73 09:26, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

For what it's worth, in the UK it's pronounced "gnaw-easter" (can't do phonetic - so am using two words which I think have a fairly standard pronunciation, the same in the US and in the UK). The accent is on the "east". 86.133.245.23 17:14, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Most New Englanders drop terminal Rs, pronouncing "father" as fatha, the a being unvoiced as in above. In Boston they go a bit further, dropping medial Rs as well, Haavad Yaad for "Harvard Yard." Most of my students in Connecticut were not conscious of their dialectical pronunciations, denied them, and would pronounce the Rs to prove their point! I'd have to get them on tape to convince them! They thought they spoke "standard" American English, which to them was the overprecise, plummy. artificial lingo radio announcers used to use. Everyone has regional variations in their speech, though sometimes it takes training to hear them. This Wikipedia entry explains why New Englanders say noreaster or noreasta and not naatheasta. It could be that the traditional nautical usage trumped dialect in this case. What do Maine lobstermen say nowadays, I wonder? Jim Lacey (talk) 16:17, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

The "R" between vowels is NEVER dropped in any typical New England accent. The fact that the first "R" is between vowel means it is not dropped. Anyone who thinks that it would be dropped by Bostonians or New Englanders has no understanding of New England accents. Pronouncing the first R is not some unexplained deviation from a Boston accent; it's the norm. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.49.176.208 (talk) 21:36, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

As someone whose family has lived in coastal New England since the seventeenth century, and is a native speaker of New England dialect, the correct pronunciation is "no'theasta." The "R" is dropped because no one here ever said "nor'easter" out loud until it was popularized on television in the 1980s. We always said "no'theasta," and we continue to say it that way, no matter what the Wikipedia linguistic pedants want you to think. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.209.77.235 (talk) 02:53, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

wrong information

The information in this article is very incorrect. First of all, as stated in the article "nor'easter's typically move very slowly in thier mature stage" is completly wrong. Nor'easters move very fast along the coast, exept under very rare circumstances such as a blocking High pressure area. I will try to add more information and better details to this. Juliancolton 18:31, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

todo

I did some work on this article...still start class? Anyway, this article does not need such a big section on usage and origins. I think that it also needs more of an effect section. I can see this article as at least a GA with some major work. This could get as informative as Tropical cyclone. -- Juliancolton (talk) 21:13, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Please do clarify the additions . . . in one section the nor'easter is associated with warm fronts and cold fronts, but in another section it is associated solely with a cold front, which seems to be confused. Also, the Usage and Origins section should not be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.241.222.185 (talk) 01:57, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

I did not see that. I will fix it as soon as I can. To make it clear, a nor'easter is associated with a cold front and a warm front. Now, the usage and origins section has nothing to do with the meteorological aspects of the nor'easter. And other than that, there is no refereneces for that section, just completely original research. I will wait for more feedback, and then I will do a major fix-up to this article, as it is a pathetic article for such an important storm. Juliancolton (talk) 14:38, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Some info on the Dolan-Davis scale would be nice; I'll try to pull some info and maybe even TRY to create a graphic for it. If anyone else is able to get it done faster, that'd be great. Here's one citation for the main paper about it: Robert E Davis, Gregory Demme, Robert Dolan "Synoptic climatology of atlantic coast North-Easters" International Journal of Climatology Volume 13, Issue 2 , Pages 171 - 189. Another citation would be Robert E. Davis, Robert Dolan, September-October 1993 "Nor’easters," American Scientist, 428-439 Artsygeek (talk) 08:12, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

(Addendum: here's also a New York Times piece: "Scientists Put a Ruler on Northeasters" By CORNELIA DEAN Published: June 23, 1992) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Artsygeek (talk • contribs) 08:17, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Fix grammatical errors

Can someone fix this line:

"Nor'easters cause a significant amount of severe beach erosion in these areas"

A significant amount of severe beach erosion? As opposed to an insignificant amount of severe beach erosion? The word "severe" kind of implies that it's, well, severe. Marshallj25 (talk) 23:09, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Not really a grammatical error, but I agree it is poor phrasing. I removed "severe". -- Beland (talk) 03:28, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Winds flowing to the northeast

The second line states, " A nor'easter is so named because the winds in a nor'easter travel towards the northeast, especially to the coastal areas of the Northeastern United States and Atlantic Canada[1]."

If it is a counterclockwise storm wouldn't the winds be from the northeast? Or is this stating that the storm is moving towards the northeast? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cpaulw (talk • contribs) 14:13, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

WRONG!

This needs to be changed - the winds are FROM the northeast, not towards the northeast. When the storm is to the west of the coastline, the counterclockwise flow, combined with friction and coriolis force, directs the winds inward. Therefore, they blow from the northeast. The American Meteorological Society agrees: http://amsglossary.allenpress.com/glossary/search?id=northeast-storm1 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kylemacr (talk • contribs) 00:32, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your suggestion. When you believe an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the edit this page link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to). –Juliancolton ^{Tropical Cyclone} 03:29, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

He can't edit it because the article is locked. Marshallj25 (talk) 20:20, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

This has since been fixed. -- Beland (talk) 03:29, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Pictures

Are very dull for an article on storms. Anyone got some better ones? Help! ROxBo (talk) 14:42, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Other Notable Nor'easters

Should include the November 2009 Noreaster formerly Hurricane Ida —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mzawutang (talk • contribs) 02:55, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Should include the North American blizzard of 2009, but I can't add a link as the page is protected. I have 20 inches of snow outside here in Washington DC. It's one of our top 10 snowstorms of all time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.72.130.185 (talk) 05:27, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Earlier use of "nor'easter"

Samuel Griswold Goodrich's 1836 edition for youth of Defoe's "Robinson Crusoe" uses the word "nor'easter" (page 26). This is 30 years earlier than the earliest of the sources listed in the article (namely 1869). Goodrich certainly was a New Englander. 68.166.237.67 (talk) 18:13, 19 January 2010 (UTC)JSB

Nor'easter from march 13th

Will there be a page for it? It caused a lot of damage in staten island and some parts of ny/nj —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.116.102.105 (talk) 05:52, 16 March 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. There needs the be a wiki page for the infamous March 2010 nor'easter which struck RI, eastern MA and central NJ particularly hard. . It should also be listed under "Notable nor'easters" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.163.254.1 (talk) 15:05, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Conflation of "notables"

The list of "notables" is very conflated. 11 storms listed happened before Wikipedia, 17 after. Does the community have any ideas to better focus this list of "notables" down to actual notable storms? I personally consider storms like '93, '96 and '07 to be an order of magnitude more notable than any of the seven (count them: 7) storms listed from 2010-present, but I have no supporting metrics. 75.69.106.246 (talk) 04:43, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

You're right...that doesn't make sense. I think people in the Extratropical storm project were just trying to list all the storms which have articles, which is somewhat against wikipedia standards. Thegreatdr (talk) 05:06, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Dolan/Davis Northeaster Classification?

Anyone feel like writing a section for the Dolan/Davis Northeaster Classification? The research for this was published in 1992 - it can be found here, and is referenced in at least two 1, 2 newspaper articles. Google indicates 103 scholarly citations of the original "An Intensity Scale for Atlantic Coast Northeast Storms" research. Mr. Bene (talk) 21:06, 27 March 2012 (UTC) (UTC)

General Weather Pattern

A nor'easter is an instance of an East Coast Low. This article should be relegated to an of the General weather pattern ie north american instances of east coast low and link to the main article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.45.97.27 (talk) 22:56, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

First Link removed

I removed the link at the very beginning of the article, which linked to an obscure episode of an obscure TV show which just happened to have the same name as this article's title. It seemed a bit of overzealous fancruft that made it's way into an unrelated article. Are there objections? 96.237.19.99 (talk) 15:14, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Hatnotes are normal; I made one that points to a disambiguation page, though, since there are now at least two articles not about specific storms with that title. -- Beland (talk) 03:22, 30 January 2015

Bad Link

The External Link for "Duxbury, Massachusetts April 2007 Nor'easter photos" points to Unknown Host MVD (talk) 11:30, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Euroclydon

I don't understand this section, there are no references for who is confusing Nor'easters and Euroclydons. I think as a section in this article it adds more confusion than it solves, and as a term in general it seems rather archaic given the two references on Euroclydon are the Bible and Moby Dick.Lacunae (talk) 12:07, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

• section removed.Lacunae (talk) 17:20, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

List of notable Nor'easters

I suggest moving the notable nor'easters section to a list page, which can be tabulated. Keeping just a few of the severest/notorious storms and/or better articles on the main article page. I did this on the European windstorm article with List of European windstorms as the list on the main page was becoming rather dominant and I generally think the main article should be about the phenomena, rather than listing instances of it.Lacunae (talk) 12:07, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

• Oh, It probably already exists at List of NESIS storms.Lacunae (talk) 19:53, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Most of the storms listed in this section came from the south, and by definition are NOT Nor'easter. A Nor'easter comes from he North east direction. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.164.187.237 (talk) 12:13, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

Storm names

The Weather Channel is not an authorized naming authority. The 'names' given to storms by a commercial enterprise have no validity and do not belong in this article. Removing them. Mweisenfeld (talk) 20:39, 12 Feb 2014 (UTC)

Schematic map needed

This article could use a schematic showing the typical placement of a high pressure area, a low pressure area, the Jet Stream, and the Gulf Stream, kind of like [1] but with the rotation of the pressure zones the right way round. -- Beland (talk) 02:41, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Snowbird225.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 05:22, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Nor'easter basic temporal and geographic information

I added a bit of information to the end of the first section regarding the months during which Nor'easters are most common (September through April). I also provided a very specific region that Nor'easters affect greatly (Northeast Megalopolis) and how they develop near this region. I wanted to provide a few good points about Nor'easters that would be later elaborated upon in the article. Snowbird225 (talk) 06:10, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

References

Copyright problem removed

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.newsweek.com/what-exactly-noreaster-301966. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)

For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. /wiae /tlk 14:06, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Nor'easter. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071222203840/http://journals.aol.com/monponsett/HighAboveCourtside/entries/2007/04/17/april-noreaster-the-beast-of-the-east/1741 to http://journals.aol.com/monponsett/HighAboveCourtside/entries/2007/04/17/april-noreaster-the-beast-of-the-east/1741

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 16:21, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Nor'easter. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061208172105/http://seagrant.gso.uri.edu/noreaster/ to http://seagrant.gso.uri.edu/noreaster/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 14:40, 22 January 2018 (UTC)