Talk:Mother (video game)

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Good articleMother (video game) has been listed as one of the Video games good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Good topic starMother (video game) is part of the Mother series series, a good topic. This is identified as among the best series of articles produced by the Wikipedia community. If you can update or improve it, please do so.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
October 17, 2014Good article nomineeListed
January 29, 2015Good topic candidatePromoted
Did You Know
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on November 20, 2014.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the completed English localization of 1989 video game Mother was abandoned only to be rediscovered and later uploaded to the Internet?
Current status: Good article

Rename[edit]

The common English name for this game remains Mother despite the rerelease by a different name, and the series is still known by the reliable sources as the Mother series. This rush to rename is premature. – czar 23:30, 14 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree with that, I think we should move this to Earthbound Beginnings, first that the official Nintendo Youtube video just posted today and they just gave a better new name, second that the title Mother is only used in Japan and was only used in English version of Super Smash Bros. Brawl, and third, this is a English Wikipedia not a Japanese Wikipedia.DigiPen92 (talk) 00:14, 15 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Mother isn't an official English name. It's called that by fans and the Internet because that's the only official name it had until last year, but it's a strictly Japan-exclusive name. It's also commonly called by the unofficial name Earthbound Zero on the Internet, yet I don't see people make an argument for using that name. The only official English name it has is Earthbound Beginnings. The fact that we're still needlessly using the Japanese name is ridiculous. - 190.138.94.100 (talk) 21:01, 9 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
A bit late but I also agree that we should rename it to EarthBound Beginnings. It shouldn't stay as a name that is more popular by fans when there is an official, English name available, especially after two years, on the English Wikipedia. We should always use the most accurate title. Celadonk (talk) 01:37, 5 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. The title has now officially been released in the west by Nintendo, so why not rename the page to Earthbound Beginnings? Jamie64326 (talk) 16:37, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
See below discussion. czar 20:24, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
At some point the renaming issue will need to be revisited as sourcing profiles will change. WhisperToMe (talk) 16:22, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 15 September 2017[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) Steel1943 (talk) 16:48, 22 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Mother (video game) → EarthBound Beginnings – Nintendo officially released the game in English as EarthBound Beginnings two years ago, and now the common name for the game is EarthBound Beginnings. The reliable sources that referred to the game as Mother (including the sources included in the article), now refer to it as EarthBound Beginnings, such as IGN, Polygon, USGamer, RPGamer, Nintendo Life (http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/07/24/earthbound-beginnings-review, https://www.polygon.com/2015/6/14/8779193/earthbound-mother-famicom-wii-u-virtual-console-nintendo, http://www.usgamer.net/articles/hell-freezes-over-as-earthbound-beginnings-hits-the-wii-u-virtual-console, http://www.rpgamer.com/news/Q2-2015/061415d.html, http://www.nintendolife.com/games/nes/earthbound_beginnings) No reliable English language source refers to the game as Mother anymore, except as a secondary title. JenniBee (talk) 13:54, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Changed Earthbound to EarthBound in alignment to other articles related to the series. Cheers! Lordtobi (✉) 16:19, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Lordtobi: I fixed this as well. Steel1943 (talk) 16:38, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support - English Wikipedia uses English names when applicable.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 16:08, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. Lordtobi (✉) 16:19, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Look at the sourcing. The game has had an "English" title since its release, and that is primarily how it is known in English sources for the majority of its history and coverage—as "Mother". For comparison, WP has plenty of other games with release names that differ between regions. We use what sources use most often: the most recognizable (the name most people will call it), natural (reflecting what it's usually called), precise (unambiguously identified), and concise (not longer than necessary to identify), per the naming criteria (article titles policy). The sources linked above were reviews of the 2015 localization by the new title, so of course they would use the title under reviewed, but since then, the game remains known as "Mother". Especially considering how this game's importance is tied to its 20+ year history/legacy in Japan and not its later, official port in the West, this title is unambiguously better known as "Mother" than "EarthBound Beginnings". czar 18:07, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - The subject of this article is Mother and its entire history: development, prototypes, translations, localization, etc. EarthBound Beginnings is only in reference to the 2015 localized / rebranded version of Mother. Most of the linked articles above use the names interchangeably / just as frequent as each other. The US Gamer article explicitly states E-B is a "rebranded, English-localized version of the 1989 Famicom RPG, Mother." Polygon states "Nintendo brings Mother to Virtual Console as EarthBound Beginnnings". Both these articles refer to the original game (which is the subject of this article) as Mother. The RPGgamer and Nintendo Life links are brief summary pages, not articles. IGN is the only article that calls it E-B consistently but it's a review of the 2015 version so that makes sense in context. Plenty of other sources on page still refer to game as Mother. TarkusABtalk 18:08, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose Per Czar and TarkusAB. They've both said what I was essentially going to, including noting how even the sources added to support a new name all clearly refer to it by it's original names, in the context of a new port/version. Either way, the original Famicom release is still simply "Mother", that is the name of the topic of this article. The Virtual Console release is essentially a port and a small portion of this article. -- ferret (talk) 18:22, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose English Wikipedia uses English names when applicable - wrong, they should use the WP:COMMONNAME, and "Mother" is an English word anyway, so this isn't really a valid argument. The game is still mostly referred to as Mother by most post-VC release sources, so I don't really see a real reason to change it. All links pointed out in the nom are ones that simply announced it in 2015, and/or a VC specific review on it, where it makes sense to use the newer name. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 20:38, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Earthbound Beginnings is now the more common title. Google trends for "Earthbound Beginnings" vs Mother Famicom now shows that Earthbound Beginnings is now the most common name for the game. https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?q=%22earthbound%20beginnings%22,mother%20famicom JenniBee (talk) 21:19, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • The problem with searches like this is that you're tying Mother to famicom to try to filter it (Valid, of course, as Mother is a simple common word). What happens if we replace famicom with NES (The English common name of Famicom)? Now the trends are almost equal, with Mother currently leading. -- ferret (talk) 21:24, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. ~ TheJoebro64 (talk) 21:30, 15 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – This article is about the original Famicon game, not the English-language rerelease. Checking some sources from the past year, it seems like Kotaku and The A.V. Club still refer to the game as "Mother" first and foremost. The Daily Dot refers to EarthBound Beginnings as "an English version of the first Mother game." Polygon didn't mention the original game in this article. Based on all this, I think it's fair to say that EarthBound Beginnings is simply the English-language version of the game, and not the WP:COMMONNAME of the game itself. ~Mable (chat) 10:27, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 11 August 2023[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Not moved; editors are not convinced that the proposed title is the common name in English. (closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal (talk) 11:55, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Mother (video game) → EarthBound Beginnings – While the series is still commonly known as "Mother" overall due to Mother 3, the common name of this in English is widely accepted as Earthbound Beginnings. See here, here and here. It may not have been the common name in 2017, but it's arguable that now, 6 years later, it is. While it is obviously still called Mother overseas, WP:USEENGLISH (which some of the 2017 arguments ignored) compels us to use the main English-language name. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 04:43, 11 August 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. – MaterialWorks 16:32, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • I would argue the Nintendo Life article still suggests Earthbound Beginnings is solely the name of the port, but the other two sources indeed use it as the primary title for sure. 2022 Kotaku here refers to it as Mother first. But yeah, I think it's fair to call USEENGLISH at this point. (I'm really sad I missed the Kamaitachi no Yoru discussion though...) ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 10:18, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak Oppose For now. While it is obviously still called Mother overseas, WP:USEENGLISH (which some of the 2017 arguments ignored) compels us to use the main English-language name. This feels like a weak argument in the face of MOTHER being an English word. So are we really making a decision on English use or... is it more an American use (or even "North American")? If it's the latter, Wikipedia:Systemic bias should really be considered. We don't even denote the international releases in the infobox, since they're a port. -- ferret (talk) 13:31, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Seiken Densetsu 3 got renamed as Trials of Mana because of its localization, despite the game being well known under the former title for years, Mother already got a localization as EarthBound Beginnings, so it should be renamed to the official localized title. --Grandmaster Huon (talk) 22:01, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Please provide a policy or guideline based argument, not an OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. -- ferret (talk) 00:11, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    general consensus states that we should use the official english title for a work if it exists. It also removes the need for a disambiguation. Grandmaster Huon (talk) 19:54, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    What "general consensus"? Mother *is* an official title in English. This particular case is not a situation of "Romanized Japanese versus English". -- ferret (talk) 22:19, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Yes, but it isn't known that way in most english speaking regions, where it is primarily known as Earthbound Beginnings. Grandmaster Huon (talk) 22:40, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. The recent localization does not change that the fact that it has been commonly known in English-language sources as "Mother" for decades. Those sources are the basis of this article and reflect how it remains commonly known today. We can analyze source by source if need be. czar 03:25, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Video games has been notified of this discussion. – MaterialWorks 16:33, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I agree with Mable that not all of the listed sources actually establish that EB is the name of the game overall, as opposed to just the port. In my reading, only the GameInformer source affirmatively calls the game EB and never refers to it as Mother/Mother 1. I'm hesitant and leaning Oppose until I see a more comprehensive source analysis than just 3 cherrypicked sources. I think USEENGLISH is weakened by the fact that "Mother" is an English word that commonly and recognizably refers to this game. Axem Titanium (talk) 18:29, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oppose for now, since no source review seems to be forthcoming. Axem Titanium (talk) 20:18, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - As others have stated, three sources isn't enough to confirm common usage. Personally, I find it difficult to believe that the game is now more commonly known by EarthBound Beginnings simply due to a relatively recent re-release, and some more concrete analysis needs to be done to establish that. ― novov t c 04:14, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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