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A basic comment - since it's well known that there is dispute about whether to include Western sahara as part of Morocco or not, then it should at least be clearly stated in the infobox what the numbers refer to! Please! This is quite apart from resolving what to count as "Morocco". Deuar (talk) 11:53, 24 May 2009 (UTC)
Resistance
Nationalist political parties, which subsequently arose under the French protectorate, based their arguments for Moroccan independence on such World War II declarations as the Atlantic Charter (a joint U.S.-British statement that set forth, among other things, the right of all people to choose the form of government under which they live). A manifesto of the Istiqlal Party (Independence party in English) in 1944 was one of the earliest public demands for independence. That party subsequently provided most of the leadership for the nationalist movement.
France's exile of Sultan Mohammed V in 1953 to Madagascar and his replacement by the unpopular Mohammed Ben Aarafa, whose reign was perceived as illegitimate, sparked active opposition to the French protectorate all over the country. The most notable occurred in Oujda where Moroccans attacked French and other European residents in the streets. Ben Arafa was pressured to abdicate and a political vacuum surfaced in French Morocco. By 1955, the French authorities, Thami Glaoui and the Spanish High Commissioner were willing to accept the caliph of Spanish Morocco as Acting King of Morocco in its entirety. However, based on the opinion of the caliph's "eminence grise" called Ahmed Belbachir Haskouri, the plan could prove to be futile (Wolf, 1994). This was due to the fact that Belbachir felt that it would be inappropriate for the caliph to play the role of the sultan of French Morocco at a time when the return of the sultan was conceivable; and consequently, Spanish Morocco had "no business" saving face for the French.Operations by the newly created "Jaish al-tahrir" (Liberation Army), were launched on October 1, 1955. Jaish al-tahrir was created by "Comité de Libération du Maghreb Arabe" (Arab Maghreb Liberation Committee) in Cairo, Egypt to constitute a resistance movement against occupation. Its goal was the return of King Mohammed V and the liberation of Algeria and Tunisia as well. France allowed Mohammed V to return in 1955, and the negotiations that led to Moroccan independence began the following year.
All those events helped increase the degree of solidarity between the people and the newly returned king. For this reason, the revolution that Morocco knew was called "Taourat al-malik wa shaab" (The revolution of the King and the People) and it is celebrated every August 20.
See: Wolf, Jean (1994). Les Secrets du Maroc Espagnol: L’epopee D’Abdelkhalaq Torres. Morocco: Balland Publishing Company
Semiprotection review
16:24, 7 March 2007 FayssalF protected Morocco (IP vandalism [edit=autoconfirmed:move=autoconfirmed] (expires 16:24, March 14, 2007 (UTC)))
23:38, 14 July 2007 FayssalF protected Morocco (Vandalism by User:Mariam83 socks [edit=autoconfirmed:move=autoconfirmed] (expires 23:38, 28 July 2007 (UTC)))
09:49, 3 September 2007 FayssalF protected Morocco (Too much disruption by IPs [edit=autoconfirmed:move=autoconfirmed])
That was over two years ago. I'd like to review this to see if semiprotection is still considered necessary. As well as welcoming views from regular editors I have contacted FayssalF, the protecting admin. --TS 20:48, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the reminder TS. I forgot it. -- FayssalF - Wiki me up® 23:18, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
Sexual tourism
The sexual tourism section is added by User:Fort-Henry and references are provided but it was written in a bad manner.Please give views on this issue whether it will be allowed to remain or removed ..---zeeyanketutalk to me 15:03, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
The section has to remain but without exceeding 3-4 lines. As it is written now, it takes too much space in a general article.
Also, it has to be written in a more neutral way. It seems like it has been written based on highly ideological/militant thoughts (it is hard to assume good faith because of some previous Fort-Henry militant contributions related to Morocco and prostitution : [1][2][3]).
The section has to remain but without exceeding 3-4 lines, great. Is there any link to any wiki policy stating that? Absolutely not! So avoid this kind of arguments...
Other sections in the same article such as politics, 2011 constitutional reforms, economy, education,…etc are also taking too much place in a general article or do you prefer that topics such as sexual tourism in Morocco would not be addressed??? If you want this section to be 3-4 lines, an article dedicated to sexual tourism in Morocco should be written then referenced as a main article.
‘’It seems like it has been written based on highly ideological/militant thoughts’’…Are you serious or still mocking other contributors. Is the UNHCR of highly ideological/militant thoughts!!??, The BBC?, The Guardian? The Child Rights International Network? The Jerusalem Post? Le Monde? The International Coalition for Responsible and Respectful Tourism? Answer! Are these of ideological/militant thoughts? Are these anti-Moroccan? What are exactly, among the sources I provided those of ideological/militant thoughts !!??
After that you put in doubt my good faith by pointing out a contribution of mine regarding Ruby…Well, I do not care about that girl, I have seen myself obliged to intervene because of your insulting comments [4] addressed to another user. Instead of giving arguments and discussing politely, you just wrote the word stupid as a summary of your ‘’contribution’’. And here, instead of giving arguments, you just decided that the references are of highly ideological/militant thoughts… Fort-Henry (talk) 16:14, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
I agree with User:Fort-Henry,discuss it with polite manner instead of using unnecessary words like militant.If references are correct then it would be retained but only after shortening the section and checking the reliability of sources.I know every community has their own sentiments and a morocco citizen do not like this section but WP:JDLI tell us other thing.---zeeyanketutalk to me 17:06, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
So you suppose that, since I'm Moroccan, I don't like it? My answer will be short : you are wrong.
The fact is that this section takes too much space (given the importance it has or is supposed to have), while it relies on only 4 or 5 references and that the importance given to it by media in and out of Morocco doesn't justify all these paragraphs.
Again, those arguments...You repeat once again that this section is taking too much space. It is not since other sections of less importance are already taking more space (see the 2011 Constitutional reforms section as an example). This section relies on 8 excellent sources (not 4 or 5, so please be precise), Le Monde, Jerusalem Post, The United Nations, the BBC,...etc. Would you like it to rely on more than that that? Cause we can have hundreds of sources since Morocco is known worldwide to be one of the best sexual tourism destinations beside Thailand and Cuba. Morocco is also the first producer of Cannabis in the world, we can not just hide those facts...Fort-Henry (talk) 13:22, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
Huh? Are you telling us that the 2011 constitutional reforms are "less important" than sexual tourism? Are you kidding us?
Anyways, there's a lack of NPOV and the section is written in a biased manner, and I'm not the only one to say it, then it has to be reformulated.
The section has references which seems to be reliable then it obviously contain large number of lines and they cant be deleted so easily but if you have found some words inappropriate for article's neutral point of view then you may discuss them---zeeyanketutalk to me 18:00, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
General comment, Omitting the rather obvious "bad faith" exhibited by user "fort-henry" as evidenced by their edits centering around giving Morocco a "negative" coverage (WP:NOTBATTLEGROUND); I'd like to remind that country articles are not dumps for any bit of info you find out-there. By WP:Countries recommendations and the usual use re country articles on wikipedia, they have to be limited to only meaningful general topic info (History-Politics-Geography-Economy-Culture) i.e. ridiculous-WP:SYNTH-WP:UNDUE-speculative material such as Narcotics are out for the same reason we don't add sections about Tomatoes, Almonds, Argan, Labour-rights...you name it
Fort-Henry you seem to be a new user whose intentions on Wikipedia look so far suspicious I'd like to remind you that this place is not battleground (there are other places for what you seem to be wanting to do; youtube, blogs, twitter & lots of other fun stuff) and as such you're treading on thin ice. Again, I advise you to have a read at WP:NOTBATTLEGROUND, users with an editing-behavior like yours generally do not last long in this place. Please change that. --Tachfin (talk) 19:20, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
Have just some notes. Narcotics should get merged to the Agriculture part, but not cut away! It is a very important part of the country's economy, as is the prostitution. What Fort-Henry had written about prostitution is PoV-less, well referenced, and very informative, it should stay as it is.
He though omitted to talk about male prostitution, as marocco is in the top 5 worldwide providers of such services. This is a good reference about the subject [5].
Regards
Dzlinker - الجزائري
20:23, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
The complete removal is not justified.Both sections might not get different large sections but should have a place in the article in another form if they are really true.---zeeyanketutalk to me 20:38, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
Dear user Tachfin
I am surprised to read all these accusations, really surprised. You start by assuming my bad faith only because I, as Canadian, have written something about sex tourism in Morocco…Is that a reason to assume bad faith or are you rather ashamed by that image of Morocco. I can write about sex tourism associated to some American cities, Canadian cities, about sex tourism in Thailand, Cuba, the Netherlands or Mexico. What’s wrong with that? Should I expect contributors from those countries to suppose my bad faith?? You know, the main difference between us, is that we see the reality as it is. There are many Canadians to travel to those countries to abuse children or to abuse people’s poverty and I am one from those fighting against that. Those issues should be addressed as they are. I am not trying to give a negative image to any countrie but the realities should be seen as they are, period. Or, do you expect me to behave like the people in this video [6]?? Believe me, I have been to Morocco many times with my family and I have seen worse then sexual tourism...
Now, let’s talk about Cannabis. This ‘’product’’ can never be seen as tomatoes or almonds cause it kills people, it is a narcotic and Morocco is the first world producer of it according to the UN, we are not telling stories, this fact should be addressed. Other countries produce drugs as well like Columbia, Afghanistan, Lebanon, the Netherlands,…etc This is an international issue that should be addressed, What is that negative image I am trying to give to Morocco if it is already the first worldwide producer of the poison called Cannabis?????
Finally,As this page is not intended to respond to all your accusations, I will jump to your talk page.
This section will of course remain; I agree some sentences may have to be reformulated. Let’s discuss that…Thanks Fort-Henry (talk) 23:14, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
I took all my time to read all these links given by Fort-Henry and, unfortunately, I found that the paragraph he wrote was highly POV and focused only on negative points, without taking into account their nuances nor the fact that most articles deal mainly with prostitution, sexual tourism being only metioned secondarly.
Great discovery. Most articles deal mainly with prostitution. Excellent. Should we add a section about prostitution in Morocco? You found that the section I wrote is highly POV! How is that? Where are those POV statements? Could you point them out to discuss them? The article section I wrote focused only on negative things!!!! Please tell me, is there something positive around sexual tourism in any country in the world!? even in developed countries like the US or the Netherlands. What do you consider highly POV? to cite the Jerusalem Post talking about the french minister taking care of kids in Morocco? to cite the UNHCR talking about child prostitution and sexual slavery in Morocco? Is that highly POV to cite the Child Rights International Network talking about the white march in Marrakesh? Highly POV to cite the BBC, to cite Le Monde talking about ...What is next. After personal accusations we turn now to highly POV. I understand this subject is sensitive for you as you seem to be ashamed but this is REALITY. Now I repeat, let us discuss the content that may seem non neutral...Thanks Fort-Henry (talk) 04:51, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
I took a look at that paragraph, and it reeks of WP:SOAPBOX. First off, it is simply poorly-written - very repetitive. Secondly, the tone is written in hyperbole, extracting absolutist phrases from suspect sources, without clarifying in the text who is making these allegations. CRIN is not a meutral reliable source - it is a advocacy network, and the linked page is promoting a concert. I can promote a drinking contest in my local bar with the claim that it is intended to raise awareness about a local plague of rabid raccoons and promote it on advocacy network sites with no verification as to whether such a plague actually exists. Yes, it is highly POV to draw offhand statements from the BBC, Le Monde, etc. as "facts" without noting that it is an allegation made by those newspapers (i.e. instead of "Morocco is a favorite destination", try "Several news outlets, such as BBC and Le Monde, claim that Morocco, etc."). The assertion "a favorite destination" is based on what? A poll of child sex tourists? Numerical measure of recorded incidents/arrests? Or just hyperbolic speculation? Thirdly, there is plenty positive to say - in particular, with Moroccan government's efforts and local law enforcement to curb it. The US State Department article is selectively quoted to maximize sensationalsm. Nowhere is there noted that relative to other countries, the State Department is encouraged with the Moroccan government's efforts, ranking it a "Tier Two" country in this regard, along with a couple dozen other countries, and above two tiers of countries below it. A quick verification of the original document:
* Same as Morocco: Albania, Antigua & Barbuda, Argentina, Amrena, Aruba, Bangladesh, Belize, Benin, Bolivia, Bosnia & Herzogovnia, Botswana, Brazil, Brunei, Bulgaria, Burkina Faso, Cambodia, Cameroon, Cape Verde, Chile, Costa Rica, Cote d'Ivoire, Dominican Republic, Egypt, El Salvador, Estonia, Ethiopia, Fiji, Gabon, Ghana, Greece, Guatemala, Guinea, Guyana, Honduras, Hong Kong, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Japan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kiribati, Kosovo, Kyrgyz Rep., Laos, Latvia, Lesotho, Mali, Malta, Marshall Islands, Mexico, Moldova, Mongolia, Montenegro, Mozambique, Nepal, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Palau, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Portugal, Qatar, Romania, Rwanda, St. Lucia, St. Vincent & Grenadines, Serbia, Singapore, Solomon Islands, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Swaziland, Switzerland, Tajikstan, Tanzania, Timor-Leste, Togo, Tonga, Trinidad & Tobago, Tunisia, Turkey, Uganda, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, Uruguay, Vietnam, Zambia
* Worse than Morocco: Afghanistan, Algeria, Angola, Azerbaijan, Bahamas, Barbados, Belarus, Burma, Burundi, Central African Republic, Chad, China (PRC), Comoros, Congo, Congo DR, Cuba, Cyprus, Djibouti, Ecuador, Equatorial Guinea, Eritrea, Gambia, Guinea-Bissau, Haiti, Iran, Iraq, Jamaica, Kenya, North Korea, Kuwait, Lebanon, Liberia, Libya, Macau, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Micronesia, Namibia, Niger, Papua New Guinea, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Seychelles, Sierra Leone, South Sudan, Sudan, Suriname, Syria, Thailand, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Venezuela, Yemen, Zimbabwe
Yet somehow, it is Morocco that is being chosen as particularly notorious and given such a highlight on its country page. The full extent of the State Department's measure is: "There is some sex tourism by foreigners in major cities in Morocco.", which while not particularly encouraging is also not as bad as others, and certainly hardly translates to hyperbolic speculative statements like "it is the favorite destination", blah, blah, blah.
This is very poorly written, clearly an advocacy piece, selectively biased and unbacked by reliable sources or measures.
As to your motives, well, I don't know and don't care. But you have revealed that "I am one from those fighting against that", which, when combined with the tone and selective usage, leaves the impression that you are engaged in advocacy here, using Wikipedia to promote pet issues or spreading moral panic. Or, worse yet. Keep in mind that your focus is inadvertently simultaneously advertising and promoting it as a destination for sex tourists. Walrasiad (talk) 16:39, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for all the accusations, I am very busy right now, can't write a detailed answer...I will get back to your accusations later. Thanks Fort-Henry (talk) 17:40, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
Hello. I seriously advise you to carefully choose the next words you may want to write on this TP. Keep expressions like it reeks or blah blah blah for yourself.
You as well as users Tachfin and Omar-Toons are trying desperately to find a wiki policy against my contribution. There is no WP:SOAPBOX since I have not made any promotion for the concert since firstly it happens 3 years ago (So how can I promote an event that has happened three years ago), secondly the article I used as a reference is not a promotional one. It talks about child sex tourism in Morocco and mentions a concert organized by some good people I Morocco to raise awareness about the phenomenon. Clear enough?
The newspapers I cited are trusted worldwide and cited as reference almost every day around the globe by news agencies. You just decide that those newspapers are highly POV!!!!!! And you decided that the facts reported have to be seen as allegations. Now TELL me: did the Moroccan government protest any of those news???? Absolutely NOT! Did the Moroccan regime protest any UN report about that matter? Protest any US Department of State report? NO! If those sources are highly POV what could we trust!? Do want me to not trust the Jerusalem Post reporting the French Minister of education (he is a well-known philosopher by the way) speaking about one of his colleagues busted in Morocco abusing kids. You can watch the video on Youtube. Or do you expect me to bring a written testimony from that minister as well as from the kids he abused, the policemen who have busted him to trust the JP????
You also expect me to talk about the Moroccan government efforts fighting sexual tourism. If you read again the section will find that the question is already addressed. The Moroccan government is doing NOTHING. Absolutely NOTHING to fight again sexual tourism or child sex tourism as detainees or suspected people usually from France or rich Gulf countries are released without even facing trials.
After that, you cited US Department of State report about human trafficking and you have given two long lists of countries classified as: same as Morocco and worse than Morocco!!! What is this report cited for as we are not talking about human trafficking??? You lost your time doing so as this is not our subject.
Now comes the key statement and the motivation of your contribution: ‘Yet somehow, it is Morocco that is being chosen as particularly notorious and given such a highlight on its country page’. You are, same as Omar-Toons and Tachfin, ashamed of facing the reality. No offend, but Morocco is a notorious destination for sexual tourism. You know, every society has problems. Here in Canada, we have problems also. Problems related to families, divorce, and corruption and many other problems. The difference is that we never hide the realities, never. We always face them and freely discuss them.
After that, you stated that the section is selectively biased and unbacked by reliable sources or measures. Well, you have had many contributions about some historical topics, are they backed by reliable sources did your historians travel back to time to witness events? Did they count the number of war victims for example? NO! This is Wikipedia, we are supposed to share our sourced knowledge.
I am not engaged in any advocacy against any country only because I am against sexual tourism. So please stop accusing me, open your eyes and face the realities of your country…Please do not blame me. Fort-Henry (talk) 03:45, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for your reply. Just for the record, I haven't revealed to you (or anybody else on Wiki) my nationality. Kindly refrain from speculating about my background - you have no idea what it is, nor is it pertinent to this discussion.
Contrarily to me, you parade your background on your user page and elsewhere. Among the credentials you broadcast to the world is that you review academic papers for publication. If so, then you know that what you have written wouldn't pass muster in any review, that it does not meet even minimal standards of evidence to make such claims, that the sourcing is unacceptable and the prose a bombastic unreadable mess.
Of course, I can see you are rather emotional about the subject, perhaps too emotional to see that what you wrote resembles more a highly-charged, poorly-written political pamphlet to, as you put it, "raise awareness", or some such thing. All power to you. Go out, raise hell and annoy the complacent bourgeois. But Wikipedia is NOT the place for it. This is NOT a SOAPBOX for grandstanding about your "cause".
Secondly, evidently you seem to have some difficulties understanding my objections. Simply and crudely put: you're not using references properly.
A newspaper story about accusations levelled upon a fiddling French minister should only be a reference to a statement that declares fiddling accusations were levelled upon a French minister. That's all. It doesn't PROVE that the French minister actually did ANY fiddling whatsoever. More importantly, such a reference does NOT substantiate, much less "prove", the general statement made in the text that Morocco is a favorite spot for fiddlers (ministerial, French or otherwise). Indeed, you used it as a reference to a sentence that makes absolutely no mention of any French minister at all!
By analogy, if an ill Chicago houswife is reported in the press stating that she believes that she caught food poisoning from a Burger King sandwich, that is not a source, much less "proof", for the statement "Hamburgers are poisonous". Clear enough?
Of course, newspapers have POVs. Notoriously so. So much so that they are made into running jokes and denounced openly by the opposite party. They're newspapers, for crying out loud. Hurriedly-printed, first drafts, often party-aligned, with notorious histories of strong opinions, open political bias, spin and propaganda, and long track records of plenty of scandal-mongering, manipulative opinion-formation and sometimes outright lying. Who do you trust? As the proverbial Englishman can tell you, you can read four different papers in the morning, two in the afternoon, and you still won't have the half the truth. There are some things they say that are true and can be verified - e.g. that a French minister was accused of fiddling. Other things are pure speculation and rumor-milling, to pad up a story, throw clay at the wall and see if it sticks. Just because newspapers say there are WMDs in Iraq, that doesn't mean there ARE WMDs in Iraq. Just because they print that Spanish soldiers blew up the Maine, that Germans like to rape Belgian damsels, that Idi Amin engaged in cannibalism, that Hillary murdered Vince Foster, that Obama is the anti-Christ, that the deficit is a mounting problem for future generations, that falling birdhouses are responsible for all divorces in Ontario does not mean that any of that is TRUE. It may or may not be true. But newspapers aren't social science research institutes, or criminal investigation units, they don't have the expertise or resources to assess any of that. All YOU can say is that THEY reported it.
"Or do you expect me to bring a written testimony from that minister as well as from the kids he abused, the policemen who have busted him " - damn right I do! Until a court of law examines that evidence and establishes that he did it beyond a reasonable doubt, it is not up to you to throw around allegations from Le Monde, JP or any other newspaper and claim it as FACT. You claim to review scientific papers, yet you seem to have difficulties understanding the difference between hypotheses and proof.
Whether any of these claims are true is up to actual evidence, actual research, verifiable numbers, verified facts replicated repeatedly by real researchers. A lonely scurrilous phrase in a newspaper column, quoted without evidence, or even references to evidence, purely speculative and openly admitted to be a rumor, to pad up a salacious newspaper story, is not itself EVIDENCE. All you can say is that "Toronto Star claims high Ontario divorce rate is caused by falling birdhouses", and that is ALL your reference is good for. Clear enough?
None of your statements took the precaution of identifying speculative allegations by their source in the text. I see no "Le Monde alleges" or "BBC claims". And that is unacceptable.
That is only part of your selective editing. You quote the US State Department's report out of context, and claim the rest of their report is meaningless because those other countries don't refer to sex tourism explicitly, but only to human traffickng. Acually, many do - try reading the other reports. Moreover, you don't actually quote the only phrase in the State Department report that actually pertains to sex tourism in Morocco, but instead quote unrelated phrases about human trafficking, which you now proclaim here are irrelevant. So they are irrelevant when pertaining to other countries, but relevant when pertaining to Morocco? Double-standards much?
Thirdly, you seem to be under the mighty illusion - perhaps common to self-righteous crusaders - that everybody else wants to "cover up" the Truth. Lots of nasty stuff happens in Morocco: murder, burglary, theft, rape, assault, extortion, vandalism, arson, fraud, blackmail, corruption, tax evasion, counterfeiting, etc. Nobody is suggesting crime does not exist in Morocco. Indeed, there is enough crime to keep the Moroccan police, courts and lawyers plenty busy. We could write entire sections on each. If we don't think they should be included, it is not because we don't believe it doesn't exist, or seek to cover up "the truth" but simply because such excessive attention to a fringe topic is out of place here. This is a Wikipedia country page, not a local crime blotter.
Morocco has a large tourist industry, employing a large sector the economy. With such numbers, there will likely be some rotten fruit among the mass of visitors. However, I don't see evidence that this is disproportionate, or that it is even a statistically significant factor. Just speculation and rumors being pushed by those who seem to have a vested interest in such speculations. For Wikipedia's Morocco country page to dedicate such a large amount of space on scurrilous sordid allegations, grievously damaging to the reputation of the Moroccan tourist industry is not to be taken lightly. A lot of potential international tourists will probably be visiting Wikipedia's Morocco page, so anything defamatory you say here is not inconsequential to the industry and the people employed in it, directly or indirectly. So if you make such a case, you had better have some damn proof, some concrete numbers and evidence to put behind your allegations, and not merely some concert-promoter's say-so or an off-hand sentence in some French newspaper.
Moreover, keep in mind that in spending so much ink highlighting the so-called "problem" you might be contributing to its growth, for if perverts want to find where they can trawl for children, you've just basically advertised and are effectively promoting the country as such a destination. You claim "I am against it". Am I to take that on faith? How am I to know you are not, in fact, the operator of a Moroccan brothel, advertising to perverts worldwide that the Moroccan police (as you put it) "does NOTHING" and it is safe place for them to come fiddle?
You write: "Here in Canada, we have problems also. Problems related to families, divorce, and corruption and many other problems. The difference is that we never hide the realities, never." And yet there is nothing about families, divorce and corruption on Wikipedia's Canada country page. (On a side note: you claim to have nothing "against Morocco". I'd like to believe it. Yet your comments above, attempting to make the nationality of the editors a factor, even going so far as to allege the moral superiority of Canadians to Moroccans, stinks of something else.)
I don't know what purpose you seek here. Maybe you work for the Egyptian tourist board trying to redirect tourist traffic away from Morocco. Or God forbid, maybe you want to send out a beacon signal to sex tourists worldwide. But I'm going to bet you're an earnest but misguided zealot, who read something somewhere, and are so filled with indignation that you've not been exactly careful in what you say or how you say it.
@other editors: These allegations are sufficiently defamatory, sufficiently damaging and harmful to a significant industry, involving many people's livelihoods, that I'd ask editors to treat it with the extra sensitivity and strict standards of WP:BLP. Walrasiad (talk) 16:58, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
I will get back to you later. Thanks a lot for the new accusations. Morocco is a favorite destination for sex tourism, period. And you won't admit it. So according to you, when it maters with Morocco all the newspapers around the world are POV? Excellent!
I will get back to you especially for all the personal attacks.
P.S Working for the Egyptian tourist board!!!???? What's that!?
@Walrasiad fully endorse your statement, community attention has to be drawn here I suspect we're just being trolled-out; I've never seen such a high level of ridicule anywhere on Wiki. Tachfin (talk) 01:07, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
@ Walrasiad. I am in a business trip, I will be home shortly. After that I will get back to you. Once again, thanks for the personal attacks...(I will follow up)
On the go: This Moroccan association [7], what is it intended for????????????????
A Moroccan newspaper [8] Does the journalist work for the Egyptian tourist Board??????? Fort-Henry (talk) 03:21, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
I look forward to your reply. On the go? (1) is an advocacy NGO, against child abuse generally; (2) is an article denouncing two recent French TV programs for exaggerating "sex tourism" stories and foisting a false and damaging rep on Moroccan tourism (what the paragraphs you tried to insert do as well), while at the same time underling government efforts (not "NOTHING") to prevent it from happening. Not sure what you intend by them. Perhaps you can explain? Walrasiad (talk) 05:26, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
Proposal I
My proposal :
removal of any "Sexual tourism" section (per WP:WPC)
adding a L3 section "Tourism" to the L2 section "Economy", on which Fort-Henry can add a short paragraph about sexual tourism (while keeping it NPOV) ;
(re-)creating an article about "Prostitution in Morocco", where Fort-Henry can add his "long paragraph" : this article has to be, of course, NPOV and has to comply with WP:SYNTH ;
I'm waiting for your opinions about that. --Omar-toons (talk) 09:51, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
Btw, Dzlinker created a dedicated article (Prostitution in Morocco). So, since he and Fort-Henry seem to be well interested and since many sections of the article are empty, I hope that they will make a little effort to fill them! I hope, also, that they will respect some policies such as WP:SYNTH and WP:NPOV.
Who has decided so? Nothing will be moved until the discussion is over. Do you understand? You seem to jump happily on this occasion. The discussion is on. Thanks Fort-Henry (talk) 12:23, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
Oh the discussion is on, not to decide if the section will be maintained or not (it will not, per WP:WPC), but to decide if sexual tourism could be mentioned in such a general article, as a sentence or a small paragraph inside another section, and how will it be formulated. --Omar-toons (talk) 12:32, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
have you read those policies yourself. This page does not belong to you, right? Now NOTHING is to be decided until the discussion is over! Now please start to argument on the content...Fort-Henry (talk) 12:36, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
Just as a point of clarification, from someone not involved in this, the guidelines at WP:WPC are just that, guidelines. If the consensus for this article is different, then that's fine. GedUK 13:47, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
My own opinion remains that this article should follow these guidelines. Btw, I don't see any country article on Wikipedia with such a section (the most significant I found is a 4 lines paragraph on Thailand) and I don't see any reason to include such a POV/biased section.
Now, Imho, there's no way to find a consensus about adding a 50 lines section about "sexual tourism" on this article, however a short 4/5 lines paragraph should be fine and I think that there's some way to reach a consensual formulation. My proposal can still be discussed.
Omar, I do not agree with your proposal and I think that we'd better let the discussion roll for sometime then formulating proposals. I am also of the opinion that the coverage is disproportionate which renders it off-topic given the relative actual significance of the topic. Not even a tourism section merits existence (note: Attempts to add Tourism sections in country articles get regularly deleted since we're not on WikiTravel – e.g. check Egypt and Tunisia) and Tourism in general isn't that big of a deal in Morocco accounting only for about 10% of global-exports far behind Agriculture, Manufacturing, Mining and just short of remittances and in all having minimal impact on GDP (And I do have hardcore sources to support that). So what is termed as 'Sexual Tourism' is even more of a WP:FRINGE phenomenon even by regional standards -in particular: Spain, Turkey and until recently Tunisia- where the 'Maison Close' is a legal practice. --Tachfin (talk) 00:42, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
We're done with narcotics i think.
For the sex part of marrocan economy and industry i agree that this section is short enough as it says the most important informations regarding the nature of this article, and the importance of this economic sector.
I created a new more detailed article.
I'll be expanding it, talking about things like the history, the weird stuff (male and kids prostitution, forced women,..), geographic distribution of prostitutes around the country, the exportation of prostitutes (as in 2006 35000 marrocan were whoring illegally in France) the future perspectives for whoring around in marroco, like legalization, or free courses for AIDS reached women (video from official channel in french: Video on YouTube that aims to break the taboo, we're having this discussion because of..) and so on..
Finally, The topic is by far more important and vast than the few proposed paragraphs. I'll be working on the new article as soon as i can. It is based on the last contribution of Fort-Henry, but should change get detailed further more.
I do not support this proposal #1, i support Fort-Henry version, for the reasons i gave just before.
seems you don't get the basic policies. check out WP:DEM. and also WP:BATTLE. hope this would help. Dzlinker \,,/(*_*)\,,/ 17:37, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
Protection
I've now protected this page while this discussion plays out. I've restored the narcotics section which doesn't seem to be part of this dispute. GedUK 13:42, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
Discussion continued
Let's not steer the discussion in the wrong direction, my point was balance (WP:UNDUE) i.e. the said topics are getting disproportionate weight in a WHOLE COUNTRY article; in my view both section (by that I mean both narcotics & sexuality sections) do not merit to exist per that principle, which is universally applied across Wikipedia country articles.
Then there is the content added in itself; the apparent fetish topic of 'fort-henry' seems to be sexuality in Morocco, consequently material they added, have strong POV tone and obviously written in bad faith, in an apparent cabal to set the record straight, which is, among other things, against the spirit of this place ergo purely disruptive (see WP:TRUTH)
By quick head count I'm inclined to believe that there is no consensus for the addition of this material: Walrasiad, Omar-Toons and Myself being against vs Fort-Henry, Dzlinker who disagree while another user has not yet made their position clear). I'd like to hear more about the balance issue I brought up, which is the reason why country articles do not end-up being a repository of any given subject (depending on everyone's pet topic) and stick up to the basic architecture as laid out in WP:COUNTRIES.
Finally, there is another issue with user:Fort-Henry edits (one of them being WP:CANVASSING) which I'll get back to shortly. --Tachfin (talk) 00:08, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
Hello. You are just loosing your time as you are desperately trying to find some wiki policies allowing you to cancel my contribution.. Could we start discussing the content???Fort-Henry (talk) 03:50, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
I think that mnay people had said enough to express their opposition to your contribution, that means that you got no consensus and that any further (re-)adding of that section about "sexual tourism" will be considered as disruptive.
Also, if this is the clue of "discussion" we will get from you, unfortunately we will not be able to find any consensual solution.
We have not even started discussing, the only thing I get so far: accusations. And you come to decide from your own that we are done and that I did not get consensus!!! Great! And how it comes that you changed your mind as you stated above that (at least) a shorter section will be kept in the article???? Start discussing. Start pointing out statement that seem non neutral for you all and we can start working. Never try to take the article for your own. Fort-Henry (talk) 15:50, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
User:Fort-Henry, Be bold and edit the article if you feel it lacks some information and your references are reliable otherwise report this issue to an administrator.What's the benefit of this discussion?---zeeyanketutalk to me 18:08, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
you should learn basic math. and you could delete the part on industry and agronomy also by the way. i believe those sectors employ less people that whores networks do. so i totally support the addition of a section on sex tourism in morocco and abroad and of course narcotics in northern berber zones. and i'm available to discuss any particular point. Cheers Dzlinker 18:31, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
Sorry for the delay guys. I am in a business trip, a bit sick and exhausted as a took a red eye flight...But I start to be back in the pink. It does not worth too much the hassle the discussion with walrasiad as he kept accusing me but I will go for some further discussion. Bottom line, I will modify the section's tone and make it a bit shorter before inserting it back in the article. I count too much on your support and advices. Thanks a lot. Fort-Henry (talk) 02:43, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
No you will not insert anything before reaching a consensus, otherwise it will be reverted as a disruptive edit and reported to ANI. --Omar-toons (talk) 05:04, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
You call a consensus your personal satisfaction. a consensus is a middle point between two extreme solutions, and a shorter paragraph is one. Dzlinker \,,/(*_*)\,,/ 00:53, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
Thanks to avoid personnal attacks. --Omar-toons (talk) 02:31, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
So, any new comments? Or can we just say that no WP:CONS is reached and that any adding of such a paragraph (while the majority opposes it, despite WP:VOTE) is WP:DISRUPT?
Btw, I'm now opposed to the adding of any information on sexual tourism to this article, Fort-Henry and Dzlinker can deal with this subject on the appropriate article.
not at all, this section is vital to the article, we can't just ignore it! shorter paragraph coming soon. wait for it! Dzlinker \,,/(*_*)\,,/ 15:17, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
"wait for it"? seems that you don't understand : most users oppose its adding, so we'll not wait for anything. --Omar-toons (talk) 15:22, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
seems you don't get the basic policies. check out WP:DEM. and also WP:BATTLE. hope this would help. Dzlinker \,,/(*_*)\,,/ 17:39, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
Don't care, I explained why I'm opposed to that, other users did the same thing, you didn't prove anything, except that, in you opinion, this section is "vital" to the article and that you "can't ignore it".
Okay then, for if they're so, can you explain why WP:COUNTRIES guidelines don't give any importance to that kind of information? Doesn't that mean that they don't belong to this kind of articles, then they're not "vital", as you said?
WP:BATTLE? Who's the one who didn't show any interest until this dispute started? Who's the one battling? Unfortunately (for you), it seems that you are the one who doesn't have to be here.
fail again mr. policy, if you read your guidlines you'll find: "And since most countries share the same subtopics ("Cities of", "Cuisine of", "Religion in", "Prostitution in", etc.), it is advantageous to standardize ..." it also says major industries should figure in the economy section. i'm not battling. prostitution legal status and practices is very interesting to know about a country. i show interest and really want to contribute. we can discuss the title to be prostitution in morocco instead of sexual tourism, and even though i think the second is more correct since, i believe, that whoring targets tourists, not locals. cheers. Dzlinker \,,/(*_*)\,,/ 20:31, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
Hello guys. Back from a business travel that took me to Japan. @ Omat-Toons: An admin has already explained to you that WP:COUNTRIES gives only guidelines, only guidelines means nothing else...Fort-Henry (talk) 12:43, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
Yes, and since most users want this article to follow WP:COUNTRIES sections' guidelines, then it will. --Omar-toons (talk) 15:30, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
Most users! which users? Are you serious? You have been told by an ADMIN that WP:Countries gives ONLY GUIDELINES. Do you understand? Now I am back, I will make some modifications to section and add it back to the article. Clear enough? By the way, Morocco is a world destination for sex tourism. You may not like it by this is reality. Thanks Fort-Henry (talk) 20:07, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
Me, Walrasiad and Tachfin oopose such a section, adding it back will be considered as WP:DISRUPT and will be then reported to WP:ANI. Also, I saw that Zeeyanketu considered it as POV. --Omar-toons (talk) 05:51, 6 December 2012 (UTC)
wiki isn't a democracy ya omar el tounsi, the majority doesn't make decisions. come back when you get that. - Dzlinker \,,/(*_*)\,,/ 17:24, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
... nor does the minority (i.e.: you and Fort-Henry vs. all the others). Come back when you will get that. --Omar-toons (talk) 02:22, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
vs??? it's NOT a fight. And wiki isn't a battleground neither.Dzlinker \,,/(*_*)\,,/ 15:41, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
It seems that the issue has been resolved. :)---zeeyanketutalk to me 18:53, 10 December 2012 (UTC)
Map of Sahrawi Democratic Republic
I was quiet astonished to find out that the map of SADR shows "as if" it is controlling the whole Western Sahara, while at this page it shows that Morocco is controlling most of of Western Sahara, even though of course the territory is disputed and hence the Moroccan controlled areas are shown differently. The map of SADR should certainly implicate the actual situation and not just "wishful" thinking: there is a clear difference between SADR-controlled territoyu and geographic region of Western Sahara which it is claiming. You are welcome to post your opinions at Talk:Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic#Map.Greyshark09 (talk) 20:03, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
Hello Maroc
With respect please do not spit on the road or your walking way your country and your cities are very beautifull .Awoid from this bad habbit for your batter health thanks.
One loyal to you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.137.76.44 (talk) 18:42, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
Fake Morocco map
Im astonished as I see that Morocco is the only article in WP wich includes a map with territories that are not Morocco. Neither Israel, neither Armenia, neither Turkey had maps including territories occupied by that conutries but not recognized as theirs (Palestinian Territories, Nagorno-Karabagh, Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus). Of course, as WP is an encyclopedia, that map should be deleted as soon as posible, as it looks like WP endorsed the Moroccan claims on Western Sahara. Also, for a reason of avoiding double standards, because if we let the Morocco article be like that, why not include a map of Armenia wich included Nagorno-Karabagh as part of Armenia? Or a map of Israel with the Palestinian Territories as part of it?.--HCPUNXKID (talk) 23:33, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
Everything is explained under the map.
You can still push your POV by adding (as you did) that Morocco is bordered by the SADR, as if it was an internationally recognized independent entity, while it is not, but you can't deny that either a map with Western Sahara fully integrated to Morocco or fully independent are POV. WS is a disputed territory, and Wiki will not support any claim.
nb: this issue and your bad-exemple comparisons were discussed many times [9][10], you can launch a RfC if you want to seek for a consensus or if you think that the current one doesn't match the NPOV policy
Neather Nagorno-Karabagh nor Northern Cyprus are applicable here. Unlike the Palestinian territories which are calmed by Israel and Western Sahara which is calmed by Morocco, Nagorno-Karabagh is not calmed by Armenia and Northern Cyprus is not calmed by Turkey. Nagorno-Karabagh and Northern Cyprus are countries, and even if every country in the world were to recognize Nagorno-Karabagh and Northern Cyprus tomorrow, we would not include them in a map of Armenia and Turkey for the same reason we do not include the other Persian Gulf states on a map of Saudi Arabia and that we do not include Canada on a map of the United States. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 17:00, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
Still waiting for a reasonable answer instead of poor excuses and double standards (like the "other examples are not applicable here 'cause I say so" attitude). Oh, and what is POV clearly is to say that Morocco borders with Mauritania, something not recognized by not a single country in the world. Keep inventing history and borders if you want...--HCPUNXKID (talk) 10:59, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
We do not include Canada on a map of the US barbecue Canada, despite it's universal recognition, it's an independent country, not part of the US. Nagorno-Karabagh is an an independent country, not part of Armenia. Northern Cyprus is an an independent country, not part of Turkey. Even ignoring your POV concerns, including Nagorno-Karabagh on a map of Armenia, or Northern Cyprus on a map of Turkey, would be a ridiculous as including Canada on a map of the US. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 12:30, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
Here's an example of what is POV and what is NPOV:
1st case, POV maps : POV maps are these maps showing a the situation according to the claims of one of the belligerents. Here, we can have 2 POVs:
1st POV, the situation according to SADR/Polisario : SADR/Polisario's claim is that WS should be an independent country. The map representing this POV is the following:
2nd POV, the situation according to Morocco: Morocco claims the entire WS as its Southern Provinces. The map representing this POV is the following:
2nd case, NPOV maps : NPOV maps are the ones that don't endorse any claim. That means that they don't show WS as part of Morocco nor as an independent country. Here, we can have 2 kinds of Maps:
1st map, NPOV representing the claims of each belligerent without showing parts of the territory that are actually under the control of each belligerent: note: we can use a brighter red for the hatchings
2nd map, NPOV representing the actual control of the territory:
So, since Wikipedia articles have to be neutral (per WP:NPOV), we can still discuss which one of the two last maps we can use, but we can't use any one of the two fist maps. For myself, I can't support a user that wants to put a POV map, even if it matches my own POV. I can't agree with a user that wants to make WS an undisputed part of Morocco, as I can't agree with a user that makes it an undisputed independent country. --Omar-toons (talk) 16:52, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
Persistent adding of bias in the section "Economy"
Moroccans ara ethnicly arabs, berbers and sub-saharans
The majority of studies says clearly that arab invasion to north africa contribud to moroccans genetic poll, moroccans are mostly arab-berber- — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stoicrack (talk • contribs) 02:45, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
Morocco´s ethnic groups.
Morocco has a diverse ethnic composition, the native people are the berbers, how ever, arab invasion centuries ago, the slavery of the blacks african and the arrivel of the arabs and jews expelled from Iberian peninsula contribud to make Morocco ethnically diverse, so it is a mistake believe that moroccans or the north african people are just ethnically berbers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.32.51.3 (talk) 02:03, 21 April 2014 (UTC)
Text correction - same text written twice in a row
Hello, not sure if this is the right way to do this but here goes - under "Tourism" the following text presently exists
"Casablanca is the major cruise port in Morocco, and has the best developed market for tourists in Morocco. Casablanca is the major cruise port in Morocco, and has the best developed market for tourists in Morocco"
As you can see it's written twice, and should probably only be written once.
Hope that helps.
196.217.243.155 (talk) 18:10, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, Talk page is exactly the place for this. But you know, if you sign up you could almost fix this by yourself. trespassers william (talk) 19:54, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
'number+name' pairs on the list of regions (on the left side) don't match to 'number+name' pairs on the image (on the right side). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.248.255.7 (talk) 05:40, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 2 December 2014 / GDP (PPP) october estimate
This edit request to Morocco has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
The link you have provided says it is from 2013. Stickee(talk) 23:35, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 14 January 2015
Nomad Meditation Experience, discover the traditions and lifestyle of the Moroccan experience an unusual surrounded by a population of great generosity and hospitality.
Mohammed you will discover beautiful landscapes and an endless diversity that moves away from tourist routes from Morocco to better enjoy the true colors and traditions of Morocco, with ...circuits customized to better meet your needs and your pace.
Therefore, you cease to be of tourists and become our guests!
With a vast knowledge of the field, 20 years of experience has traveled the country. Médiatation nomadic Experience will give you moments really fascinating, an extraordinary journey fed and warm encounters scenery as beautiful as variés.et especially contact with people with a very rich culture.
The purpose of Nomad Meditation Experiences and allow passengers to immerse themselves in the heart of Morocco; teach them to know and appreciate its people, its cultures, natural environments and a stay not as a tourist but as an invited. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.141.112.50 (talk) 22:50, 14 January 2015 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 12 May 2015
This edit request to Morocco has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
Hello,
I'd like to insert a sub-head under Politics: "Women's political empowerment in Morocco". Below this would read:
Morocco’s active women’s movement initially attracted mostly urban-educated women but expanded during the 1990s. It broadened its appeal, drawing in both secular and Islamist women, and lobbied for equality for women and girls in access to services, employment and political voice. This has lead to progressively greater presence in civil society and the formal political system. As a result; women’s representation in parliament has increased dramatically, from 1% in 2003 to 17% in 2015; Morocco’s 2004 Family Code is one of the most progressive in the Arab world; in 1993, Morocco ratified an international agreement on gender equality that has provided leverage for further progress in domestic legislation. This has lead to improvements in women's health and social outcomes: the fertility rate is now one of the lowest in the region; the maternal mortality rate fell by two-thirds in just two decades; girls’ primary school enrolment rose from
52% in 1991 to 112% in 2012 (due to re-enrolment); and just under 23% of women are in formal employment (2011).[1]
Bentritton (talk) 15:20, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks,
Ben Tritton
Seems like undue weight to me. What that means is that the article should not have such a large section about this subject when there's other aspects to discuss also. I would suggest adding it to Women in Morocco instead. Stickee(talk) 01:12, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 6 June 2015
This edit request to Morocco has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
FYI: when I logged on to Wikipedia today at approximately 5:38 pm from Barcelona, from my account ("Maria Ashot" on an Apple Mac "Air" notebook), I saw a yellow highlighted banner announcement concerning my alleged "last edit." I followed the link to a page on Morocco. I clicked on the edit: It was an inappropriate one-liner in Spanish which implies something sexual, and was utterly irrelevant to the content of the page.
The reason I am submitting this request for your review is because I, Maria Ashot, have never made any kind of edit to any article on Morocco, anywhere -- including specifically on any Wiki portal.
I have no idea what has happened to my computer or how it has been hacked or taken over, or why. None of my family members would be capable of such an annoying action, nor would they have any motivation to pull such a prank. I hope you can investigate and let me know, or let your IT team know, who/what is tampering with Wiki content.
Submitted on Saturday, 6 June 2015
Respectfully yours, Maria Ashot88.9.243.125 (talk) 15:48, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
Morocco (/məˈrɒkoʊ/ⓘ; Berber: ⵎⵓⵔⴰⴽⵓⵛMurakush means "Land of God" ; Arabic: المغربal-Maġrib means "The West" ; French: Maroc), officially the Kingdom of Morocco, is a country in the Maghreb region of North Africa. Geographically, Morocco is characterized by a rugged mountainous interior and large portions of desert. It is one of only three countries (with Spain and France) to have both Atlantic and Mediterranean coastlines. The berber name Tageldit-n-Murakushⵜⴰⴳⵍⴷⵉⵜ ⵏ ⵎⵓⵔⴰⴽⵓⵛ meaning "The Kingdom of Murakush" (The english name "Morocco" originates from the berber name Murakush which means "Land of God") and the arabic name al-Mamlakah al-Maghribiyahالمملكة المغربية meaning "The Western Kingdom" are commonly used as alternate names.
Do we really need all the same translation notes in the 1st and 4th sentences? The 1st presents it efficiently; I think the 4th should be either deleted, buried much later in the article, or pruned to purely information not already contained in the opening parentheticals. (?) Squish7 (talk) 11:02, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
Morocco is not an ethnically diverse country.
In short, the first line under "Culture" declares that "Morocco is an ethnically diverse country with a rich culture and civilization," yet the data summary box of Morocco's profile at the top left of the page lists "Ethnic groups (2014[2]) Arab-Berber 99%, other 1%." If that demographic profile equates ethnic diversity, then it is redundant to ever point out a place's ethnic diversity as it would be a given under every likely circumstance.
Also, a culture being described as "rich" is fairly subjective.
"Arab-Berber" is not a singular ethnicity. Arabs and Berbers are distinct ethnicities, and the latter can be broken down even further. I guess whomever collected that data or set up that category (the government?) consciously decided not to distinguish ethnicities. Walrasiad (talk) 17:30, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 24 July 2015
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At the beginning of the last paragraph under the section "Sharifian dynasties" section, it states that "Morocco was the first nation to recognize the fledgling United States as an independent nation in 1777."
In fact, I contacted the U.S. State Department directly regarding this issue and this was the response from Tiffany Cabrera, Ph.D., who is a historian at the U.S. Department of State:
"Thank you for your inquiry. This is one of those complicated issues in U.S. foreign policy history that involves the kind of historical and legalistic interpretation that leaves a window open for some continued debate.
During the early years of U.S. history, acts of recognition typically included the signing of a treaty, the appointment of diplomatic representatives, or the establishment of consular offices (these did not necessarily take place at the same time). Recognition of the United States by France dates from the signing of the Treaties of Alliance and of Amity and Commerce in Paris on February 6, 1778.
Scholars disagree as to whether Sultan Sidi Muhammed XVI's proclamation on December 20, 1777 that Moroccan ports were open to American shipping was an act of de facto recognition. A Department of State Bulletin article, "Long-Time Friends: Early U.S.-Moroccan Relations, 1777-1787," which was published in the September 1987, tackled the issue of Moroccan recognition of the United States by looking at original records. It provides probably the most thorough account available of the relevant details, and ultimately concludes that in 1777 the Sultan of Morocco "intended to recognize the United States, but official recognition did not occur until the treaty with the United States was signed [in 1786]."
I hope this helps clarify, but please let us know if you have any further questions.
Best,
Tiffany H. Cabrera, Ph.D.
Historian, Special Projects Division
Office of the Historian
U.S. Department of State"
Therefore, please change "Morocco was the first nation to recognize the fledgling United States as an independent nation in 1777.[1][2][3] In the beginning of the American Revolution, American merchant ships in the Atlantic Ocean were subject to attack by the Barbary pirates. On 20 December 1777, Morocco's Sultan Mohammed III declared that American merchant ships would be under the protection of the sultanate and could thus enjoy safe passage. The Moroccan–American Treaty of Friendship, signed in 1786, stands as the U.S.'s oldest non-broken friendship treaty.[4][5]" to the following:
"Although some accounts state that Morocco was the first nation to recognize the United States as an independent nation in 1777, scholars disagree whether Sultan Sidi Muhammed XVI's proclamation on December 20, 1777 - that Moroccan ports were open to American shipping - constituted an act of de facto recognition. By comparison, France officially recognized the existence of the United States with the signing of the Treaties of Alliance and of Amity and Commerce in Paris on February 6, 1778, becoming the first nation to officially recognize the United States. While the Moroccan sultan may have intended to recognize the United States, official recognition by Morocco did not occur until the signing of the Moroccan-American Treaty of Friendship in 1786."
^Roberts, Priscilla H. and Richard S. Roberts, Thomas Barclay (1728–1793): Consul in France, Diplomat in Barbary, Lehigh University Press, 2008, pp. 206–223 ISBN093422398X.
Not done: because this is a change that should be discussed first. The source which Dr. Cabrera mentions is available here, and states clearly in at least two places that Morocco was the first to recognize the United States' independence through the Sultan's December 1777 declaration, and I don't see that it concludes anything about whether that recognition was "official" or not, nor if "official" recognition didn't come until later. Furthermore, it's not exactly relevant to an article about Morocco when their recognition of the United States was determined to be official, and if we were to make the change suggested, then France's recognition of the United States is certainly not relevant to an article about Morocco. Lastly, our verifiability policy requires published sources, so with respect to Dr. Cabrera's fine analysis, unless she publishes it or can point us to a published source which reflects her analysis, we can't use it. Ivanvector🍁 (talk) 14:50, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 11 August 2015
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Return Tifinagh version of name of Morocco in Tamazight!!!
41.250.100.122 (talk) 13:52, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Cannolis (talk) 12:01, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 12 August 2015
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Bring the old name ⵜⴰⴳⵍⴷⵉⵜ ⵏ ⵍⵎⵖⵔⵉⴱ - Tagldit N Lmghrib in tifinagh, it's the official name and it's in Tifinagh not latin script. Proof: http://www.maroc.ma
Morocco doesn't use Latin Script for Tamazight, and there's grammar mistake in new edit of the name somebody made.
105.157.172.243 (talk) 14:31, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
Done - @ⴰⵎⴰⵔⴰ: you made this edit where you removed the reliably sourced names in the article and replaced with a different name without a source, after the same edit had been reverted twice by Omar-toons. I am reverting to the sourced version. Do not re-do this change unless you can provide a source for the name. Ivanvector🍁 (talk) 17:15, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
Rabat - 2nd, 3rd, or 7th largest city?
Decent sources seem to exist for all.[11](not sure about this one), [12], [13], [14], [15]. Doug Weller (talk) 13:07, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
Genetics
A recent edit has greatly expanded this section, and deleted the link to the main Moroccan Genetics article. I think this WP:UNDUE and propose to go back to the article directly before that change, subject has its own article, doesn't need duplication here. -Roxy the dog™ (Resonate) 07:57, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
Yeah I tend to agree, go for it. Ljgua124 (talk) 23:47, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 10 November 2015
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Largest City should be Casablanca, not Mexico City.
Supra2JZGTE (talk) 20:01, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
This article need a full protection Tsarisco (talk) 03:18, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 12 December 2015
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This page has been extensively attacked by berber activists and so a lot of things need changing. This request however is for the Ethnic groups section on the right. This break-up of 60% Berber, 25% Arab and 15% others is completely and utterly disingenuous and the references are a sham that prove nothing. This used to be 99.1% Arab-Berber and I request that it be changed back to it's former self. I am Moroccan and the current breakup is a complete lie as anybody who has ever been to Morocco knows. Thank you.
86.169.111.191 (talk) 15:44, 12 December 2015 (UTC)
Not done: Can you provide reliable sources identifying the ethnic population breakdown of Morocco? /wia🎄/tlk 18:07, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 30 January 2016
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Hello ! i dont like the morrocan map here because there is no Moroccan sahara in it . please change that pic and post a pictures withe complete morocco
morocco with his Sahara . Thank you :D
41.249.4.107 (talk) 22:27, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
This edit request to Morocco has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
The official languages of Morocco are Arabic and Tamazight (not Berber). It would be nice if Wikipedia respected the official appellation of the language. Thanks!
Raadnani (talk) 02:29, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. EvergreenFir(talk) Please {{re}} 04:51, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 4 March 2016
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Not done. There is no description for the edit request. Abjiklɐm (tɐlk) 19:38, 4 March 2016 (UTC)
Berber name of Morocco
The berber name of "Morocco" is ⴰⵎⵓⵔⴰⴽⵓⵛ Amurakush, not ⵍⵎⴰⵖⵔⵉⴱ"Maghrib", this is arabic, not berber and should be changed but impossible to be because editing the page is impossible for us ! You also must change the name of "Kingdom of Morocco", it should be : ⵜⴰⴳⵍⴷⵉⵜ ⵏ ⵎⵓⵔⴰⴽⵓⵛ. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Emerarudo (talk • contribs) 16:09, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
The current Berber name is the one given by the IRCAM. It is referenced in the article. Do you have a reliable source for the name you'd like to put? Abjiklɐm (tɐlk) 17:02, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
Abjiklɐm this name, even if it's given by the Ircam, is from Arabic, not Berber. It's not because the Ircam wrote it that it's correct ! A lot of words written by some people in the government in berber are mistakes. In berber language the correct world is "ⴰⵎⵕⵕⵓⴽ" (Amṛṛuk), or, the original, the initial form, ⴰⵎⵓⵔⴰⴽⵓⵛ Amurakuc, that's the meaning of Morocco, this word originally came from "Amur n Akuc" (Amur n Akuch) that means, "the part of god", "the land of god". It's the berber name that gived the term of "Morocco", "Maroc" (Amur n Akuc > Amurakuc > Amruk > Maruk > Maroc), and it's also the origin of Marrakech city's name. If you speak arabic you should know that "lmghrib" is in arabic language.
I also already put a link of the official moroccan blazon https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maroc#/media/File:Slogan_of_the_Kingdom_of_Morocco.jpg where it's written ;)
--Emerarudo (talk) 18:12, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
You're probably right, but at the moment it's still your word against the official website of the relevant government organization. The image you linked to also lacks a source unfortunately. Abjiklɐm (tɐlk) 20:50, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
I agree with Emerarudo, the Berber name for Morocco is Amurakush, from Marrakesh which comes from Amur/Murt n Kush (Land of God) https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Morocco. Fact that Al Maghreb is simply written in Berber script doesn't make it a Berber word, it's an Arabic word. And the Arabic script with it's transliteration is already present. Ajellid-n-arif (talk) 20:38, 20 March 2016 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 1 April 2016
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Please edit "Air Photo form Bades" to "Air Photo from Bades", because "from" is mistyped.
Stefan (talk) 15:33, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
Done, good catch. Arnoutf (talk) 16:36, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
This edit request to Morocco has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
Hi, There is a dead link in the page http://www.marocparadise.com/ is dead, I'd like to change it to www.morocco-guide.com (a guide with articles about Morocco)
Article states Morocco is (with spain , portugal and france) one of four countries to have coastline on both the med and atlantic. Well it is 1 of 3 as Portugal has no med coast only atlantic
see title explains it all, Portugal is not on the med — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.165.230.36 (talk) 16:51, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
Article states Morocco is (with spain , portugal and france) one of four countries to have coastline on both the med and atlantic. Well it is 1 of 3 as Portugal has no med coast only atlantic
see title explains it all, Portugal is not on the med — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.165.230.36 (talk) 16:52, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
True, but the UK (Gibraltar) does. This should probably be revised. Arnoutf (talk) 18:19, 5 October 2016 (UTC)
Gibraltar is not part of UK but is a British Overseas Territory, so UK has no Med. coast. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.153.44.249 (talk) 21:51, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
Tourism Addition
On the English page in the tourism section, it mentions how important tourism is to the Moroccan economy, but does not go as in depth as the French page. Including specific numbers demonstrating how Morocco compares to the other top 4 countries in tourism in Africa, would allow readers to put numbers to words in order to enhance their understanding of how large of a role tourism really plays.
In 2014, Morocco welcomed 10.28 million tourists, whereas Egypt had only 9.63 million, South Africa had 9.55 million, Tunisia welcomed 6.07 million, and in 2013 Algeria had 2.73 million.
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Hi, here is an edit to make the Sports section slightly more specific with a little bit more information and some sources.
Spectator sports in Morocco traditionally centered on the art of horsemanship until European sports—football, polo, swimming, and tennis—were introduced at the end of the 19th century. Tennis and golf have become popular.[citation needed] Moroccan tennis players such as Karim Alami, Younes Aynaoui and Hicham Arazi were often classified among the first thirty or even twenty best tennis players in the world. [SOURCE 1] Major competitions attract golfers from all over the world, the most famous being the annual Hassan II Trophy is played at Royal Golf club, Dar Es-Salam at Rabat. Golf courses in Tangier, Cabo Negro, Fez, Meknes, Ben Slimane, Mohammedia, Casablanca, El Jadida, Marrakesh, Ouarzazate, Agadir, and Rabat.
Several Moroccan professional players have competed in international competition, and the country fielded its first Davis Cup team in 1999. Rugby came to Morocco in the early 20th century, mainly by the French who occupied the country.[115] As a result, Moroccan rugby was tied to the fortunes of France, during the first and second World War, with many Moroccan players going away to fight.[115] Like many other Maghreb nations, Moroccan rugby tended to look to Europe for inspiration, rather than to the rest of Africa.
Kickboxing is also popular in Morocco.[citation needed] The Dutch Badr Hari, heavyweight kickboxer and martial artist, is a former K-1 heavyweight champion and K-1 World Grand Prix 2008 and 2009 finalist.[SOURCE 3]
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. JTP(talk • contribs) 20:46, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
Introduction edit request
Hi,
I have noticed that in many articles about countries the introduction contains a brief summary of the country's history. I would suggest that the same would be done for Morocco. I was thinking about something like this:
"A historically prominent regional power, Morocco has a history of independence not shared by its neighbours: since the foundation of the first Moroccan state by Idris I in 789, the country has been ruled by a series of independent dynasties, reaching its zenith under the Almoravid and Almohad dynasty, spanning parts of Iberia and North-Western Africa. Under the Marinid and Saadi dynasty the struggle to protect the Moroccan heartland from foreign domination would continue, resulting in Morocco to remain the only North-African country to avoid Ottoman occupation. The Alaouite dynasty, the current ruling dynasty, seized power in 1666. In 1912 Morocco would be divided into a French and Spanish protectorate, with an international zone in Tangier, only to regain its independence in 1956." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Maghribi1994 (talk • contribs) 20:35, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
Done. Since no one objected, I added this to the lead (with removal of some unnecessary words). Vanjagenije(talk) 10:06, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
Also noticed little consistency between the english and french wiki pages. There does not seem to be a specific date of independence on this english page. I really think that there should be a mentioning of the date of independence( November 18, 1955) as well as the date of international recognition (March 2, 1955). Although these are small pieces of information I believe that they are essential. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Morgiemorg2355 (talk • contribs) 20:04, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
Population Box
Not logged in so cannot edit but the population box needs changing. The heading suggests the population is in millions when it should say thousands. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.7.48.162 (talk) 14:21, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
since the article is about morocco and not america, shouldnt we use international english (-ise) instead of american english (-ize)? Χρυσάνθη Λυκούση 2001 (talk) 20:24, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
The article already uses colour and neighbour, so you can probably just rely on WP:ENGVAR's guideline to be consistent (and therefore -ise) without the false statement about -ise being "international" and falsely implying that -ize is only "american". DMacks (talk) 17:24, 6 February 2017 (UTC)
it is only american in the UK we use ise and british english is the standard and original form of english — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2a00:23c4:7882:b600:6447:6f70:f62a:8891 (talk) 21:31, 8 February 2017
It remains that USAish is the base of "international English"; while "commonwealth English" follows English (as written by the folk of England), the USAish or "simplified English" spelling is more usually regarded as correct in "international" settings, our national pride notwithstanding. I'm mildly pleased to discover WikiPedia prefers consistency over a dogmatic choice. Eddy 185.55.107.82 (talk) 12:18, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
Time-Zone eccentricity
According to timeanddate.com, Morocco has since 2012 been following an unusual pattern of daylight-saving changes: summer and winter are on UTC while spring and autumn use UTC+1. The side-panel for the page, summarizing various things, mis-describes the latter as "summer time". The government's reasons for this pattern may be interesting, if they can be discovered. The IANA database for time-zones confirms the pattern, giving the end of autumn as the last Sunday in October (since 2013) and the start of spring as the last Sunday in March (from 2014 until 2021; and from 2026 onwards); the other two transitions (in June-or-May-or-April and in July-or-August) bounce around, suggesting the rule behind their variations may also be interesting (possibly defined in relation to the Islamic calendar, for example). — Eddy 185.55.107.82 (talk) 12:38, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
Closer scrutiny of the IANA database reveals that the "summer" break is in fact Ramadan. So the DST period is from the last Sunday of March to the last Sunday of October, except for Ramadan. — Eddy 185.55.107.82 (talk) 13:50, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
I've added same to the infobox. Vexingly the infobox likes to put its (UTC+1) after my parenthical note but I dunno that I can do anything about that. Pinkbeast (talk) 19:52, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
Semi-protected edit request on 18 December 2017
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Change Population to 35,023,182 according to latest info from HCP.
http://www.hcp.ma/Fadeltoulba (talk) 19:11, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
The number you refer to no longer exists. See your own source. It is an estimated number that continually changes. It is not an official count. In articles it is best practice to use an official count, the last census. As such it is best to use the 2014 census. Sincerely, Taketa (talk) 07:06, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
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Not done: because this is a change that should be discussed first. The source which Dr. Cabrera mentions is available here, and states clearly in at least two places that Morocco was the first to recognize the United States' independence through the Sultan's December 1777 declaration, and I don't see that it concludes anything about whether that recognition was "official" or not, nor if "official" recognition didn't come until later. Furthermore, it's not exactly relevant to an article about Morocco when their recognition of the United States was determined to be official, and if we were to make the change suggested, then France's recognition of the United States is certainly not relevant to an article about Morocco. Lastly, our verifiability policy requires published sources, so with respect to Dr. Cabrera's fine analysis, unless she publishes it or can point us to a published source which reflects her analysis, we can't use it. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 14:50, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Cannolis (talk) 12:01, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
Done - @ⴰⵎⴰⵔⴰ: you made this edit where you removed the reliably sourced names in the article and replaced with a different name without a source, after the same edit had been reverted twice by Omar-toons. I am reverting to the sourced version. Do not re-do this change unless you can provide a source for the name. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 17:15, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
Done. Since no one objected, I added this to the lead (with removal of some unnecessary words). Vanjagenije (talk) 10:06, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
