Talk:Military Sealift Command/Archive 1

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Some more information regarding each branch of the Military Sealift Command would be helpful, probably a list of all the Command Headquarters (office locations: MSC Central, Far East, Pacific, Europe, and Atlantic) as well. Hengineer 11:00, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Tag & Assess 2008

Article reassessed and graded as start class. Referencing and appropriate inline citation guidelines not met. With appropriate citations and references, this article would easily qualify as B class is not higher. --dashiellx (talk) 16:51, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Submarine and Special Warfare Support Ships

Can we make this a bit more than a link off to MSC?

For example we already have articles for ships such as MV C Champion and it looks like M/V C Cragside will soon join her.

Hcobb (talk) 14:25, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

Now go to the talk page

@User:Thewolfchild -- I am here as you requested. So, just for the record let's get the story straight. First you started an edit war at Military Sealift Command refusing to explain your rationale; then, decided to back down and restored the image leaving an incorrect information about MSC's stack colors, which are black, gray, blue and yellow, and definitely are not just "blue and gold" as you stated in the article (for example, see Military Sealift Command: Prepositioning). I understand that compromise is when everybody gets a little, I get my image, you get your misleading info staying in the article, but I am just curious why would anybody claiming to be a member of "United States Naval Special Wikipedia Development Group" do something like that? Taterian (talk) 22:14, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

@Taterian: First... calm down. There's no need to get so upset about this. Second, go read WP:BRD;
  • You Boldly made an edit.
  • I then Reverted it.
  • It's at this point Discussion should take place. You go to the talk page, explain your changes and seek consensus in support of them.
  • Instead, you reverted again, meaning you started edit-warring.
  • I then returned the article back to status quo (see WP:STATUSQUO), and encouraged you to read WP:BRD and go to the talk page in the edit summary.
  • But instead, you reverted yet again, continuing your edit war (and for some reason, citing "WP:CON" in your edit summary, telling me you don't even know what that means).
Now, you may have noticed the extensive cleanup I did at List of Military Sealift Command ships. Following that I intended to also do some work on this page (and I have done some already). I included the photo you wanted to add so badly. As for the colors, MSC official colors are blue and gold. The grey and black are incidental. I don't know what else there is to discuss, nor do I care to, if you're going to continue being so rude and insulting. If you still want your changes to go in, go find a reliable source to confirm them, then get some consensus to support them. Barring that, go read the policies and guidelines and maybe take an anger management course. Have a nice day. - theWOLFchild 23:52, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
WOLF is correct, the MSC official colors of the stack are blue and gold and the grey and black are dependent on the paint scheme of the ship. Some MSC ships could be white, with a white stack, but will always have the blue and gold stripes...MarlinespikeMate (talk) 03:09, 3 April 2016 (UTC)
@User:MarlinespikeMate Bin recently busy, but finally back. Glad to find a real seadog in this muddy puddle. . Mate, we can settle our little disagreement after you show me the beef, I mean the proof of what you are claiming, i. e., that "MSC official colors of the stack are blue and gold and the grey and black are dependent on the paint scheme of the ship". @User:Thewolfchild (Personal attack removed)--Taterian (talk) 03:14, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
Look, you were wrong, get over it. Lashing out at everyone because you're upset and embarrassed serves no purpose. MarlinespikeMate doesn't have to "prove" anything to you. The onus is on you to support your claim. If you want to note "haze grey and black as official MSC colors", then you need to provide a reliable source to confirm it.
Before you post any more personal attacks, I suggest you read WP:CIVIL. In fact, in light of your recent contributions, I suggest you familiarize yourself with as many of Wikipedia's policies and guidelines as you can. You should've used the 'welcome' template I added to your talk page. You may have felt the greeting was bogus, but the links it contained were real enough and an inexperienced user such as yourself could certainly benefit from them. Now, if you wish to continue this, I challenge you post something more mature and constructive for a change. Have a nice day - theWOLFchild 03:33, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
OK, I hate to eat my words. I would have thought without a doubt wolf was right, but upon further inspection, and looking up the physical instructions, it appears otherwise. Taterian's side of the story is actually correct. This is cited directly from MSC Instruction 4750.2C. Further proof against my statement, look at the hospital ships like the USNS Mercy. White hull, but still have the Black, Grey, Blue, Yellow Stripes.... In defense however, the Blue and Gold are the defining stripes, as the black hides exhaust staining, and the grey further defines the blue and gold stripes. [1]
COMSCINST 4750.2C w/CH-1: PRESERVATION INSTRUCTIONS FOR MSC SHIPS
″6.18 Stacks
a. All MSC ships, regardless of type or hull color, shall have their stacks painted with the distinctive color bands described below. The painting of other insignia or markings is strictly ::::::prohibited.
b. Stacks shall receive the same maintenance attention as the deckhouse and superstructure.
c. The widths of the color bands are proportional to the overall height of the stack (“H” as
illustrated in Figure 6-1).
(1) Top band: Black (MSC #48), for a width of two-fifteenths of “H”
(2) 2nd band: Haze Gray (MSC #45), for one-fifteenth of “H”
(3) 3rd band: Blue (MSC #46), for one-fifteenth of “H”
(4) 4th band: Yellow (MSC #47), for of one-fifteenth of “H”
(5) Lower portion: The remainder of the stack (below the yellow band) shall be painted the same color as the surrounding deckhouse, except as otherwise directed in Chapter 7.″MarlinespikeMate (talk) 05:55, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ http://www.msc.navy.mil/instructions/pdf/m47502c.pdf
Thank you for providing this instructive source! Very informative. --Taterian (talk) 03:24, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
  • Don't be hard on yourself, MSM... you (and I) are still correct. You have presented what appears to be maintenance instructions for painting stacks, and like all things in the military, they are excessively detailed. However, no where in that document does it say that "blue, gold, black and haze grey are the official colors of MSC"... because they're not. The official colors are just blue and gold... same as the very navy that MSC is part of. The color scheme here is just as you described... grey as the standard hull color, black to hide exhaust discoloration and of course the blue and gold stripes. Unless you, Taterian or anyone else can provide a reliable source that states clearly that "black and haze grey" are also "official colors" along with blue and gold, than we can't state that in the article. It's not just me... it's policy. Wikipedia does not permit content to be added unless it is clearly supported by reliable sources. That said, as a compromise, if Taterian wanted to add that "blue, gold, black and haze grey is the "standard" color scheme of MSC ship stacks", (or something similarly worded) that would be ok, as long as a source is provided, such as the ref you've added here. When Taterian tried adding his edit before, he also failed to provide a source. That is called original research, which is not permitted. If Taterian returns, and is willing to be collegial, perhaps this will serve a resolution and we all can move on. Cheers - theWOLFchild 09:37, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
@User: Thewolfchild, your talk too much. 1. On MSC's stack color bands you were incorrect. Introduce corrections or somebody else will do it. 2. About Official Navy Colors, "The precise brown, red, blue, and gold of the Seal are the standard for the Navy Emblem", see: Official Navy Colors. 3. Where is your proof on MSC's "blue and gold" official colors? --Taterian (talk) 03:24, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
And still nothing seems to have gotten through that thick skull yet (maybe if I used less big words and more pictures... ). 1) You say I'm incorrect. Then provide a source and show how incorrect I am. If someone else wants to make "corrections", they're perfectly welcome to (as are you) as long any changes are properly supported. 2) You are confusing the standardized colors of the official seal with the official colors of the Navy. But, again... if you have source that confirms the USN official colors are red, brown, blue and gold, or a source that confirms that the MSC official colors are black, grey, blue and gold... go nuts! Just add those sources and make all the (appropriate) changes you like. Now, are we finally done here? Or do you have something else to whine about? 12:15, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

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