Talk:Messiah University

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Motto[edit]

BTW, the College's motto is NOT "Higher Education, Higher Calling," but "Christ Preeminent." Insiders know that several years ago talk swirled around campus concerning modifying the historic motto, but nothing was ever done to that effect, and the official college seal still proclaims Christ's preeminence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Msauder (talk • contribs) 04:55, 19 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Layout[edit]

Adding the infobox seems to have thrown some of the layout off. Lesliestng 05:12, 16 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Hegemo-what?[edit]

I just removed a sizable section filled with tons of anti-Sawatsky POV. I'll paste it in here:

Rodney J. Sawatsky became president of Messiah College in 1994. His draconian-style leadership and liberal-leaning theology led some professors to resign. After a few years Sawatsky began to lose the confidence of his own staff. In 1999 he saw a way to rally support again by spearheading a kind of "inquisition" against a character that he popularized as "The Mad Quaker."
This "Mad Quaker" had written a letter to the school newspaper, the Swinging Bridge, questioning the paper's staff's decisions to publish some seemingly anti-Christian articles. Apparently the editor-in-chief of the Bridge was alarmed by the vague "these articles will be stopped" language used by the "Mad Quaker" and brought the letter to Sawatsky's attention. Sawatsky asked the staff of the College to stand with him against the "terrorist" who had written the "threatening letter". Professors, already alarmed by the number of their collegues that had already quit because of their differences with Sawatsky, were made to feel that they were either with Sawatsky or against him. Many prominent professors signed a statement written by Sawatsky denouncing the "Mad Quaker" and this was published in the Bridge. In the statement published in the Bridge, Sawatsky asked that the "Mad Quaker" turn himself in.
The "Mad Quaker," merely a freshman student unaware of the power struggle in the upper echelons of the Messiah College hegemony, "turned himself in" as Sawatsky asked. The student was subsequently verbally berated by Campus Security and later "subpeonaed" to the so-called "Judicial Council" AKA J-Council. There the normal standards for J-Council preceedings were suspended while the student was accused of crimes against the Bridge and Bridge's Editor that he did not commit. J-Council concluded that the student should undergo Messiah College's version of a restraining order to prevent him from getting near the Editor of the Bridge, "community service" at the College campus, and regularly meet with the campus counselor. The students appeals were denied.
Later Sawatsky met with the student whereapon Sawatsky denied the more damning parts of the above described events. In a telephone with the student's parents, however, the faculty advisor of the Bridge called the student Sawatsky's "scapegoat".
Rodney J. Sawatsky was replaced in 2004 by Kim S. Phipps.

The event, as a part of recent college history, might be notable enough to warrant inclusion in the article (though I'm not too sure). But the view above is decidedly POV against Sawatsky. For those who may be reading this who don't know the College well, Sawatsky's leadership was a source of much academic politics typical of the sort you'd find at any college or university. They are complicated at Messiah by the religiously charged nature of all college decisions, which makes people feel very strongly about their views. Thus POV on this issue is very sensitive on campus, and the above isn't nearly objective enough. If this is to stay in the article, it also needs sources, which can be obtained from the Bridge, I assume. Staecker 11:05, 9 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

(Gee... I wonder if the person who posted this has an agenda. Hmm... Sawatsky actually stepped down in 2004 and died of brain cancer later that year. "Replaced"? Interesting spin, given the content of this article... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.14.12.2 (talk) 13:31, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

History Section[edit]

This 'Mad Quaker Incident' highlights the conspicious lack of a history section in this article. I have added the section and included a very brief history from Messiah's website, but the section still needs a lot of work. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.38.175.235 (talk) 21:24, 29 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Messiah College just (April 13, 2008) hosted the Compassion Forum (sponsored by Faith in Public Life, Council for Christian Colleges and Universities, the ONE Campaign, and Oxfam), where Senators Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton spoke on how their faith affected their public policy. The audience was made up of a variety of religious leaders from around the nation and some students of Messiah College--a fairly bipartisan audience. This seems fairly significant. If it shouldn't go in the history section, then there should probably be a mention of it some where. Shadow Phoenix (talk) 04:17, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

David Steinberg?[edit]

Someone inserted "David Steinberg" into the alumni section, with a wikilink to David Steinberg (indicating this guy). But then the description seemed to be talking about this other David Steinberg (Meegosh). Can somebody who knows better replace the info? Staecker 19:52, 4 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I put the correct (actor in Willow) David Steinberg back in, with whatever information I could glean at the time. I could not find a graduation date, though I found a web reference to his attendance at Messiah. Carboncopy 15:15, 6 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment[edit]

I recommend that at least one photo of the college be provided. --Bossi (talk ;; contribs) 00:36, 17 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Traditions[edit]

I have reinserted one tradition, creeking. This one has been around for a long time, and is certainly a part of Messiah lore, as decades of graduates will tell you. I did manage to find one external reference for it. I left the other "traditions" off, as most seem relatively recent in origin, and without references. In general I think it is important to mention long-standing traditions in these articles, as they give a flavor missed by marketing materials put out by development departments. On the other hand, I think only the oldest, most consistently-practiced and still current traditions should be described. Carboncopy 16:59, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Carboncopy, I agree with you on this idea. The midnight scream has been occurring at this campus for a while, and I do not know how to reference it other than it has been mentioned on multiple finals-week related fliers and becomes obvious come midnight during finals week. The other tradition, Duct Tape Wars, has several youtube videos available for it, and even got a whole 2 page collage spread in the 2005-2006 yearbook. It is very recent though, having started in 2005. Clowd81 19:44, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Midnight Scream might pass muster, as a version of it in the old Hess Dorm existed in the late 80's. Still, it needs some sort of historical external reference for Wikipedia purposes. As for Duct Tape Wars and a few of the others, inevitably it leads to the discussion of how to define a "tradition." College life is full of odd semi-organized behaviors; some stick, some do not. (Pun not intended.) Creeking is indeed ancient; the Scream is a contender; but anything needs, IMHO, a decade or two to mature, so that the article does not become a list of "Weird Things People Have Done on Campus for a Spell but Don't Really Do Much Anymore." How about the traveling Alumni Statue thing that the classes would compete for? Does that still happen? It was a strong tradition for many years, but by my time few paid much attention to it--though it was still in circulation. If it no longer is a part of campus life, then it has become a "Weird Things People, etc." Carboncopy 01:09, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
As far as I know, I have not heard of a traveling Alumni Statue. You provide a good argument about that, and I will agree that Duct Tape Wars is not required. However, I still think that the midnight scream should be put up there, if it's been going on since the late 80s and is still continuing even now, that is nearly 2 decades of screaming through windows during finals week. According to your idea of needing a decade or two to mature, I'd say that the midnight scream is, therefore, a great candidate to add. Clowd81 22:09, 16 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I can't link you to anything specific, but there were several people during the Fall 07 Semester who told me that they saw coverage of the Midnight Scream during the local news during finals week. I will continue to look for confirming evidence, since this is just what I was told. I don't know where I will be able to find this. Shadow Phoenix (talk) 03:53, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Unsourced statements: female presidents and student life[edit]

I removed the unsourced material from the article. This only included two statements:

  • That President Phipps is one of only two female presidents of Christian universities. I did some quick OR and found that, in the CCCU alone, there are at least five female presidents (at Asbury, Houghton, Messiah, Vanguard, and Warner Pacific). If someone finds this information in a reliable source, a clarified statement could go back in, along with maybe an "As of 20xx" tag.
  • That students complain of a lack of nightlife. While I know this to be true from first-hand experience, the statement has been sitting unsourced for quite a while now, and I can't envision anything more significant than a Swinging Bridge article ever backing it up.

--⋆∂ρ (talk/edits) 18:23, 22 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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Mechanicsburg vs. Grantham?[edit]

Why is everything-Messiah-College related listed as in Mechanicsburg? Why not Grantham?

A few years ago the college decided to change their official address listing to Mechanicsburg rather than Grantham. I'm not sure why they did it. I recall seeing a press release about it, but I can't find it now. Staecker (talk) 13:53, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Found something- it was in 2011. [1] Staecker (talk) 13:55, 28 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Staecker, I myself noticed the change and was a bit surprised. I might try putting that into the main article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 181.128.212.178 (talk) 21:54, 14 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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