Talk:Martyrs' Day (Panama)

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Untitled[edit]

  • This article is POV at points, in my opinion. Saying things like "rather conclusively" is a rather silly and heavy-handed way of attacking the United States position on the events in Panama in 1964. The rest of the article is ok.
  • Yep, it needs a going over for POV statements like "the most blameless." It's not too bad on the whole, but the emphasis on "martyrdom" and such is rather biased. Night Gyr 11:28, 15 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Modified that "the most blameless" statement, I think you're right. And of course needs more polishing, nothings perfect, I hope lots of people can make it better. Thanks for your reading and interest. Radioheadhst 22:48, 20 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • It makes references to pictures that are not on the page (e.g. see picture at right).
  • This article reads a bit like an undergraduate research paper. Many sentences are taken, word for word, from "Panama Canal Zone: Beginning of the End" by Eric Jackson, which is linked at the end of the article. It also needs POV issues addressed. For example, the article contains accounts of the tearing of the Panamanian flag that contradict each other, which on the one hand suggests that how the flag was torn is disputed, but the article still refers to the damage to the flag as the "flag desecration incident," which implies intentional damage to the flag. The article also contains the statement, "The Zonians would have none of it," which is awkward, unprofessional, and POV. Also, the statement that the UK and France "pointed to the hypocrisy of a power whose Zonian citizens were as obnoxious as any other group of colonial settlers" does not indicate whether this is the opinion of the two nations or the opinion of the article's author. 5:33, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Possible to clean-up Background Section?[edit]

RE: "In response, outraged Zonians began demonstrating with the U.S. flag. After the first U.S. flag to be raised at Balboa High School was taken down by school officials, the students walked out of class, raised another flag, and posted guards to prevent its removal. Most Zonian adults sympathized with the student demonstrators," in the "Background Section." Maybe I'm missing it, but I don't think the article explains what a "zonian" (a US person living within the Canal Zone), nor does it explain that "Balboa High School" was a high school for the children of US Canal Zone Employees. --72.47.85.92 (talk) 05:39, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Balboa High School was also a high school for U.S. Military children and other U.S. citizens as it was a public highs school. It was also open to Panamanians and any other nationalities with the caveat that they (non U.S. Dependents) would have to pay tuition to attend (because they didn't pay U.S. taxes of course). Many Panamanians and other foreign nationals paid tuition and attended Balboa High School. It was a very diverse mix of students. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.139.92.78 (talk) 04:49, 29 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Adding Several Notes to the basic article: My Background as an Eye-witness to the events is that I was a high school student living in the Canal Zone during the period July 1961 to August 1964, at Fort Clayton, Canal Zone (Pacific side) and attending Balboa High School. In the background portion of the article, several statements are incorrect or imply facts that are not true.

The Background implied that most Americans in the Canal Zone (ignoring the several hundred Americans living outside the Zone in Panama City) were in favor of flying only the US Flag. During that period, most Americans recognized that the Canal Zone belonged to Panama but was only being administered by the United States. We had no objection to flying the flag of Panama next to the US Flag, as recognition of Panama's ownership of the land. But several hot-headed Panamanians wanted only the Panama Flag flown, which was causing difficulties in negotiating a solution. The two flag policy was favored by most people as a compromise, but those favoring only the Panama Flag were slowing down efforts to gain acceptance by both parties to the proposed compromise. Naturally, America's enemies in the Cold War were taking advantage of this issue for propaganda purposes.

Prior to the riots, there was only one flagpole at Balboa High School, and it flew only the US Flag. The students were aware of the policy to fly the Panama Flag along side the US Flag there, but were told to wait for the construction of the second flagpole (it was erected shortly after the end of the riots; as I recall the original flagpole was taken down as it was in the center of the concrete pad, and two flag poles placed side by side, centered in the concrete pad about ten feet apart, were put up about one week following the end of the riots). Most students were ambivalent about flying the Panama Flag as we realized that the Canal Zone really belonged to Panama, and that we were just tenants there, but we wanted the US Flag to fly while Americans were living there.

On a side note, the High School ROTC put up and took down the flag(s) every week day prior to the beginning of classes and at the end of the day's classes. I was the one who put up the first Panama Flag on the newly erected dual flag pole of the four ROTC cadets who constituted the flag detail that first day we flew both flags, and my photo shows up in Newsweek Magazine (one of the June 1964 issues)of us cadets raising that flag. end of side note.

When the Panamanian students showed up to raise the Panama flag there, it was feared that they would replace the US Flag, and this started the scuffle. After all, there was no second flagpole, and putting both flags on the one pole would start an argument as to which flag should be on top. The US Students were trying to tell the Panamanian students to wait for the second flagpole to be erected, but no one was listening.

The night before the incident, Panamanians rioted at the Tivoli Hotel, which was on Canal Zone territory, but just across the border street from Panama City. That night, my parents were attending a Lions Club meeting and dinner there, but returned home early saying that there was a riot starting at the hotel, and that they were advised by CZ police to evacuate immediately.

During the riots: It was widely reported that when the Panamanians attacked the Pan American building (a three story building), that the first martyrs were created when they were looting the third floor of the building and other looters set the first floor on fire, thus trapping the looters on the third floor. END OF MY ADDITION. <ref>Eye witness account<ref> RA18594873 (talk) 16:40, 15 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The agreement between Panama and US sides was simple. The Panama Flag had precedence, and the US Flag would be allowed to fly beside it, at equal height within the Canal Zone. Elsewhere in Panama the rule for flags is that the Panamanian national flag would be provided dominance in any case where it was raised, usually by height and possibly size. In the case of a single flag pole this would require the Panamanian Flag to fly alone, as neither the Panamanian Flag nor the US flag are permitted to share a flag pole.

The Panamanian students were brought and had permission to fly a HISTORICALLY important flag. As for 'the scuffle' mentioned in the anecdote above, The students and their families got in the way in protest, and the students were harassed, not allowed to raise the Panamanian flag, and the flag was torn and defaced, while the Canal Zone police that should have protected them and helped implement the order, instead ejected them back out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:2C7:8C80:8560:1958:8739:B60F:3806 (talk) 07:56, 3 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Tearing of the Panamanian Flag[edit]

I was a student at Balboa High School and just happened to be serving detention in library on the second floor, facing the flag pole when the event occurred. I had a great view as there is a balcony with large windows and doors looking out on the front lawn of the school and flag pole. I watched the entire incident of the Panamanians coming to the flag pole in front of Balboa HS and the Panamanian flag being torn.

The background was that some days prior, the word had gotten out that the Canal Zone officials were going to remove the flag pole in front of Balboa HS, as well as other locations within the CZ. This didn't sit well with the Balboa students or their parents, so they jointly organized a 24/7 vigil around the Balboa HS flag pole. A phone tree was loosely put together so that word would go out quickly to all if any pole removal actions were enacted. At least a couple of times removal was attempted but parents and students quickly gathered and bolstered the small vigil group and removal was prevented. The plan was for someone to shinny up the pole and the rest of the group tightly surround the pole to prevent access.

On the day of the incident, around 4 PM, word had spread to the CZ group that a large number of Panamanians had entered the Canal Zone permitter and were headed toward Balboa High School holding a old and historic Panamanian flag. Word spread quickly and the Canal Zone students and parents surrounded the flag pole, which, at the time was flying the American Flag. The Zonians were probably 500 or more strong when the Panamanians arrived and at least 75 or more feet deep, encircling pole. There were around 5 to 8 Panamanian students in a row holding up a 5X9 Panamanian Flag, in front of a group of maybe 200 or so Panamanian students. Apparently the Panamanians were demanding that the American flag be taken down and the Panamanian flag hoisted up in it's place. The Canal Zone students and parents were not having any of that began chanting loudly, NO, NO, NO, NO.

Additionally, were around 25 or more Canal Zone Police officers wearing Blue helmets and armed with batons, in between in the 30 foot or so space separating the two groups. Talks between the CZ Police and the Panamanian students seemed to break down when the CZ group began chanting, NO. At that point the police, holding their batons at port arms, started to slowly push the Panamanian flag bearers back. One of the students in the middle who was holding the Panamanian flag fell backwards and went down, tearing the Panamanian flag a foot or so. The kid quickly got back on his feet but the damage had been done and the Panamanian crowd went nuts, shouting and screaming. The CZ group immediately moved in behind the CZ police, then attempted to slowly surround the the Panamanian students. The police then turned their attention the to the CZ group to prevent any confrontations between the two groups. The Panamanians started backing up quickly, being vastly outnumbered, and then headed back towards Panama City, eventually setting several cars and garbage cans on fire along the way. That is basically when the Flag Riot, as we CZ folks called it, began. Czarmyhskid (talk) 03:37, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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