Talk:Martin Eisenstadt

Alex Isenstadt[edit]

Anyone think that Alex Isenstadt is a "relative"? Pustelnik (talk) 01:36, 5 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

YouTube video[edit]

The article says that the pair "released a video where Eisenstadt, reportedly a McCain policy adviser, made that statement." Is that video on YouTube? I can't find it. I was thinking it should be added as an external link. --Evb-wiki (talk) 15:22, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

RFC: Merge with Sarah Palin article[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Unanimous sentiment for several reason was No Merge

This seems like it belongs either in the Palin article, or in the McCain-Palin 2008 Campaign article. Not a whole lot here.Bruno23 (talk) 20:35, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No Merge Nope. It impacts Giuliani and others as well who are not covered in the Sarah Palin article. As it expands, I am confident it will also connect to some material from 2004 and 2006. As a result, merging it with an article which does not have such scope would be errant. The two filmmakers also may be connectable to other acts, and that would also mean a merge would be impossible to carry out. (fixed "sara" in name of article) Collect (talk) 22:46, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Now linked one of the players to an employee of a Dem Senator. I think a lot more is out there. Collect (talk) 23:44, 13 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I agree with Collect. There's an independent story here. The name is misleading right now. Maybe a move to something like Martin Eisenstadt political hoaxes. --Evb-wiki (talk) 00:48, 14 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No merge. Distinct from Sarah Palin as relevant to others. In addition, most material here is not directly on point to Sarah Palin. This story and the hoaxsters have received independent significant coverage in reliable sources. Bongomatic 01:27, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

No Merge, but you might want to re-name it Martin Eisenstadt. Dan Mirvish is known for other things as well, and has his own article. Pustelnik (talk) 02:01, 14 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, he does now. As of . . . today -- about an hour ago. Is this the chicken or the egg? --Evb-wiki (talk) 02:25, 14 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Today? Here it looked like the person was implying he had already had an article, no? It has essentially nothing of substance in it, and would likely face RfD. Collect (talk) 02:29, 14 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

An article. Even if it was written today. He has several New York times mentions before the hoax, mainly in connection with filmmaking and the Slamdance Film Festival about 9 years ago. Pustelnik (talk) 03:53, 14 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Hoax" in title is reasonable IMHO. Collect (talk) 02:08, 14 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No merge - Per the users above. This is a distinct hoax that is more about these guys and poor media fact-checking than about Palin directly. Oren0 (talk) 04:02, 14 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Relevancy of various facts[edit]

Link was furnished from AP by another editor which included statement that the hoaxers had been debunked before. I think that is relevant to the entire story on the hoaxers. Collect (talk) 00:30, 14 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Since the entire article is a series of hoaxes (including an early reference to sourcewatch.org), it doesn't seem to me to add anything to include this statement. But not a big deal. Bongomatic 01:27, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Martin and Michael[edit]

Maybe this should be titled Martin Eisenstadt hoax. There appears to be a real pundit named Michael Eisenstadt. [1] Pustelnik (talk) 23:00, 14 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nope. As the other one has not been involved in any hoaxes, there is no possibility of confusion. There are a bunch of people with any given last name, but that does not mean we have to refer, for example to the Albert Einstein Theory of Relativity, The Lawrence Peter Principle, James Parkinson Disease, the Alan Sokal Hoax, the Charles Ponzi Scheme, the Guy Hopkins Hoax, and the Werner Lovenstein hoax. Collect (talk) 23:14, 14 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I still think Martin Eisenstadt political hoaxes is the way to go. Martin Eisenstadt is not a person, but a "character" used to perpetrate several hoaxes, not just one hoax, all politically oriented. --Evb-wiki (talk) 00:10, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So was Alan Sokal. Or Werner Lovenstein. Or Guy Hopkins. In fact, in general, hoaxes do not have first and last names. I would also suggest that any other hoaxes made by the two here would be improperly named "Martin" as that was only the character name used for one of their hoaxes. The more rational rename would be for "Mirish Gorlin Hoaxes" which would cover all of thier hoaxes. Collect (talk) 00:15, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

~~Okay. Add the hyphen Mirish-Gorlin hoaxes.~~ --Evb-wiki (talk) 00:23, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Haven't done this before -- we should ask for confirmation from others, no? Then a redirect to a new page, or can this page just get renamed? Collect (talk) 00:31, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's pretty simple. You use the "move" tab at the top of your screen (between "history" and "edit"). Type the new name in the prompt box, give a simple reason for the move, and enter. That will rename the article and the talk page, and create the redirects. Then go to the left-hand margin when you're on the rediect page (original article name), and click "What links here". Correct all the existing links using the new article name. And you're done. We may want to get comments from User:Bongomatic (the creator) and maybe User:Pustelnik, who expressed an opinion above. --Evb-wiki (talk) 00:43, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds rational to me at least. Let's see how they feel. Collect (talk) 00:46, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Totally indifferent so long as the redirects are left in place and links to are fixed. Bongo matic 01:24, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would prefer Martin Eisenstadt hoax or even Martin Eisenstadt, as there are other artciles on fictional persons in Wikipedia. I'd be happy to set up re-directs when all this settles. By the way, it seems that the New York Times, besides breaking the story, quoted Matin quite a few times! Pustelnik (talk) 15:08, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm thinking about what would be the most likely search term to be used by someone who just heard a little something about this/these/him/them. Maybe Martin Eisenstadt would be it. But Palin criticism hoax, Fake McCain adviser or Palin's Africa controversy, narrowly speaking, depending on how one hears of such thing. --Evb-wiki (talk) 15:50, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

[outdent] It appears that the moniker Martin Eisenstadt was not created until after Giuliani's campaign ceased. I guess this begs a different question re the scope of the article. What is the artcle about? (1) The hoax claiming to be the source of "Africa is a country" Palin criticism? (2) The hoax that Eisenstadt & the Harding Institute was a legit think-tank or polictical analysts commenting on McCain's campaign? (3) The whole vblog series, including the Giuliani rants? --Evb-wiki (talk) 15:33, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent question. I would include the whole vblog series. In my opinion, the hoax is passing off Martin Eisenstadt as an expert quoted by many national news organizations, none of which verified that he was an expert, or that he actually existed, even with the "Harding" clue! The Giuliani rants were the source of the idea to creat the character "Martin Eisenstadt". This is really a classic hoax, on the principle of "tell people what they want to hear, and they will not try to verify it". The Cardiff Giant and Piltdown Man succeeded by using the same principle. Pustelnik (talk) 16:13, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I think my opinion has changed in favor of Martin Eisenstadt, per most likely search term (some searchers may not be thinking hoax) & Pustelnik's cmts ↑. Plus it will probably make for cleaner wiki-linkage in other articles. --Evb-wiki (talk) 16:40, 15 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'll give people until Nov. 25, 2008 to object or comment. If there are no objections by then. I will change the title to "Martin Eisenstadt", fair enough? Pustelnik (talk) 19:41, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I also added some more on the Baghdad Casino hoax. Did you know that Alan Sokal published his hoax under his real name, and he is not an imaginary character like Martin Eisenstadt? Pustelnik (talk) 21:09, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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