Talk:Manitou

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Widespread North American religion?[edit]

Is there a case to be made that Manitou worship or Manitouism was a widespread Native American religion? If so, then perhaps it's not just "shamanism" but a (pre?)historic "world religion", like, say Judaism or Buddhism or something. — Rickyrab | Talk 03:59, 4 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

There is only "a case to be made" if it's made in a reliable source. We can't make any new "cases" here if they aren't; that is the definition of original research (Even if they are 100% right, we cannot be the first to publish them.) Cheers, Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 11:24, 4 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The origion of the city name Manitowoc[edit]

Question from Sammytsunami: “Manitowoc”, is a city in and the county seat of Manitowoc County, Wisconsin, United States.in the state of WI. According to Wisconsin Historical Society, The first constituent, "manito," is conceded by all to be the Indian word for spirit, or mysterious influence; hence "spirit land," "devil's den," etc., have been assigned as its meaning (Wis. Hist, Colls., i, p. 117; iii, p. 337; Gannett, Place Names, p. 170. Wis. Hist, Colls., i, p. 117; iii, p. 337; Gannett, Place Names, p. 170).

According to the Wiki’s article about Manitou, Manitou is a term used to designate spirit beings among many Algonquian groups of Native Americans. Also the name of the Canadian province of Manitoba, named for Lake Manitoba in the province, derives from the place name manitou-wapow, "strait of the Manitou" in Cree or Ojibwe, referring to The Narrows at the centre of the lake.[2] Also Manitoulin Island means "spirit island".

Based on the above information, can we derive the following? 1.The word “Manito” and “Manitou” mean “spirit” 2.The word “Manitowoc” means “spirit land” 3.If the first constituent in Manitowoc, “manito” means sprit, then the second constituent “woc” could be “land” or “woods” Sammytsunami, June 20, 2011.

Does it say anywhere that woc definitely means "land of", or just that it might? The article on Manitowoc, Wisconsin, gives two theories and doesn't claim one or the other is the correct one. —Soap— 18:30, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Here is an Anishinaabe language example to answer your question:
  1. manidoo does mean "spirit"
  2. -(w)aak(wag) means "spawn"
  3. -(w)aak(oog) means "wood"
  4. -(w)aki(ig) means "land"
In the eastern Algonquian languages, such as in the Quiripi language, the combining form of land is -ahk(iik), but in the Great Lakes region, it is always -(w)aki(ig) (as in "Milwaukee). So "land" is plausable, just as "spawn" and "wood" are plausable. Cite the source using "land" and it can be included. As for "den", the form would be -(w)aazh(an), so unless you can find the spelling be something like "Manitowodge" or "Manitowush", the "den" possiblity is out. CJLippert (talk)
This is what it says under "Manitowoc" entry in "Indian Place Names" in Wisconsin Archeologist, Vol. 33, No. 1 & 2, pp. 54–55 (with my comment bracketed in green):
  • Manitou-wauk: the home or place of the spirits – Witherell, 1857, p. 337 [This explanation works only if the word is manidoowaki]
  • Manitowoc. From Manito'wuk, Potawatomi for 'power of the spirit' or 'spirits.' – Skinner, 1926, p. 399 ["Spirits" explanation works if manidoowag is the source word, but "power of the spirit" would work if only the word is manidooweg but Menomini, Ojibwe and Potawatomi documents all indicate a definite a and not e.]
  • Manitowoc. Corruption of manitowag, (spirit spawn). Pagan Indians imagined that spirit spawned like fish. – Verwyst, 1892, p. 392 [This explanation works if the source word is manidoowaak]
  • Manitou-woc, or Devil's Den. – Hathaway, 1903, p. 117 [This explanation does not work at all]
  • Dr. W. J. Hoffman, in his Menominee-English glossary, published in the 14th Annual Report of the Bureau of American Ethnology, gives the word Manitowoc as meaning 'much game.' This is evidently erroneous. – Falge, 1915, pp. 128–129 [This would only work if the word was instead recorded as "Manitowco" (manidookaa) but that is not the case here]
  • Manitowok, from the Ojibwa, should be Munedoo—a general name of spirit. [yes] The prefix or termination gives the kind of spirit intended. [yes] Munedo-ish[manidoowish] means Devils, or Evil Spirit, in Ojibwa.[yes] Owkesha-munedo[Ogizhe-manidoo] is God, or Good Spirit[yes, but not "Good Spirit" but rather "Benevolent Spirit"]. Woc may be intended for owk,[no, because, now you're splitting a word not as o + gizhe + manidoo] and munito may be intended for munedoo,[yes] and if so, Munedo-owk, alias Manitowoc, when applied to the Islands in Lake Michigan, or the river emptying into it, probably signifies the habitation of the Good Spirit. [no; it may apply to the islands in Lake Michigan or the stream emptying into it, but the writer's logic on the name does not work] The perversion or corruption of the word may be from the imperfect understanding, or imperfect orthography of the white man of the Indian language; or it may have been derived from the Menimoni, or some other tribe of Indians, who use the word a little differently than the Ojibwa. I am not an Ojibwa scholar, but have the word of Peter Jones, a celebrated missionary, for whom I derive the above orthography of the word.
    (In conjunction with the preceding, the editor Lyman C. Draper has a footnote: "Dr. Morse, in his report of his Indian Tour of 1820, speaks of 'an old Ottowa chief living at Ma-nit-ou-wauk,—the river of bad spirits.'") – Brunson, 1903, p. 111
CJLippert (talk)

Thanks for the detailed response to my question on the origion of the city name "Manitowoc". I am still yet to get specic answer to my question. According to Wisconsin Historical Society, The first constituent, "manito," is conceded by all to be the Indian word for spirit, or mysterious influence; hence "spirit land,". Based the CJLippert's explanation, can we agree that manitowoc means spirit land. If so, manito means spirit and how can we say manitowoc means spirit land. Where to get equivalent indian word for land. Sammytsunami, June21, 2011.

But if the name were "Spirit land" the city would most likely be transcribed as "Manitowaukee" and not "Manitowoc" because "Spirit land" would be manidoowaki. The short "a" is usually transliterated into English either as "ah" or "u" while the long "a" (aa in the Fiero spelling) is usually transliterated into English either as "au", "o" or "aw". CJLippert (talk) 19:06, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sammy, If you're trying to guess an Algonquian word for 'land', in most Algonquian languages it is usually something like "Aki". My first thought on seeing "Manitowoc" though was that it is really a plural of Manito. (Possibly, that now seems wrong) But it's rare to get an exact, neat one-one one word correspondence with elements and components of such names, since the original 'English interpretations' were usually centuries old, unscientific, and often formulated without great precision or care for keeping an exact literal correspondence. Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 21:34, 21 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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S.N.U.F.F. by Viktor Pelevin[edit]

This word was used by the Russian writer Viktor Pelevin in his novel S.N.U.F.F. Can it be mentioned in the article? The following is the translation from Russian Wikipedia. "Manitou is mentioned in the novel S.N.U.F.F. by Viktor Pelevin, there this word marks a deity, monitor (screen) and money in the anti-Christian and post-Christian era. The Antichrist is mentioned as the founder of the anti-Christian religion, who lived at the time of the dissolution of the USA and was shot by the Aztlán drug barons. Later, other deities and historical figures prove out to be regarded as Manitou as well." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adûnâi (talk • contribs) 00:05, 3 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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i made an edit but i have a concern[edit]

I changed the word "Iroquois" to the tribe's official name "Hadenosaunee," now when you click "Hadenosaunee," wiki tries to link to '...org/wiki/Hadeno..' Is there a way to simply link to the right page? Is this change necessary? 2600:4040:239C:8200:A82A:A9D2:D40C:26C7 (talk) 02:25, 10 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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