Talk:Londonderry Port

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Royal Navy Base[edit]

Was this associated with the Royal Navy Base Sea Eagle and the NATO Joint Anti-Submarine School? Starviking (talk) 11:41, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Historically they were both linked to the huge WWII bases and dockyards. But I think the post-war bases were further south than the port, in the Waterside between the two bridges. HMS Ferret (shore establishment 1940) has more information. --Rumping (talk) 20:11, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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Page move revert[edit]

This page was moved, without any discussion, to 'Foyle Port' in August 2016; it has been moved back to 'Londonderry Port', its original title, via the WP:RM#Undiscussed moves process. The original title, Londonderry Port, remains the common name and the official name for this entity, but if anyone feels the other name is better, they should open a Request Move discussion and say why. Xyl 54 (talk) 00:07, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at the Londonderry Port commissioners website it appears Foyle Port is what they call it now but doesn't state why the change of name. Whilst I'd say common name backs usage of Londonderry, official might now be Foyle. Mabuska (talk) 00:43, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
You could be right about the official name; I'm not altogether sure about it. It's true that the Commissioners have adopted 'Foyle' as a brand name (Foyle Marine Services, Foyle Port Marina, Foyle Engineering etc) but I was going by their full name ('Londonderry Port & Harbour Commissioners') for the official name. Also, it's unclear when they adopted the name Foyle Port, (sometime after 1993, at a guess) but the history of the port goes back 300 years, so it's still a bit of a misnomer for an article on the subject.
On the subject of the port's history, I am planning to expand on that, unless there is any objection. Xyl 54 (talk) 23:52, 22 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Expand away. We could always make Foyle Port a redirect link to here and state in the lede "now officially known as Foyle Port". Or simply Foyle at the start stating otherwise known as Londonderry Port and state that it is run by the LPHC. Mabuska (talk) 10:41, 23 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Mabuska: OK, I've re-arranged what's here, and I've added a bit: It would be nice to know what the official name actually is (I gather the city still has an official name different to the one in general use) before making a definitive statement. The current wording Londonderry Port, otherwise known as Foyle Port, covers the current branding and the name prior to that in a fairly neutral fashion, I feel (it definitely wasn't "Derry Port", as a recent one- edit contributor seems to think). Anyway, I'm turning in... Regards, Xyl 54 (talk) 01:55, 31 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I was the editor who moved the page to Foyle Port based on common name. I'm not too bothered by the name of the article - Londonderry Port is probably the official name, but it's worth noting that Foyle Port seems to be the business name that is now used. Google results show that the vast majority of news outlets use the name 'Foyle Port' (Belfast Telegraph, The Irish News, Derry Journal, Irish Independent, Maritime Journal and BBC News). Due to this, I'd be inclined to vote for Foyle Port as the article name, although I'm mindful of the port's history as Londonderry Port.
The Londonderry Port and Harbour Commissioners were established by a royal charter so their name remains the same. They control the port, but their history page refers to the port as Foyle Port. Because of that, I'm not actually sure what the official name is. It definitely is not and was not Derry Port, but it may be worth changing the article to Foyle Port (with the lead saying (also known as Londonderry Port)) given the uncertainty over the name. st170e 15:11, 1 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Or, we could leave it where it is, given the uncertainty over the name.
I don't have any objection to using the name Foyle Port for contemporary use, but the port has a 300 year history, and throughout most of that time the name has (I hope, indisputably) been Londonderry Port; that is the name used by all the sources dealing with the port in those times, it is the name used in text articles here on WP, and it's the name in the vast majority of incoming links to here.
At the end of the day the issue here isn't the correct name of the port now, but what the name for an article on the place in an online encyclopaedia should be.
Foyle Port has a section here, and a (redirect) page now; so we could always anchor the redirect to the Foyle Port section, if you feel the matter is unclear.
Or we could have two articles, which would be consistent with the format elsewhere eg. Port of London/Tilbury Docks, Port of Bristol/Avonmouth Docks, and Port of Liverpool/Seaforth Docks (and now Liverpool2) if you feel Foyle Port should stand alone. Xyl 54 (talk) 23:34, 3 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think two articles are necessary here. I am very mindful of the port's important history and I would agree that, perhaps, the history outweighs the new, official name of the port. Nonetheless, I'm indifferent to the outcome and I'd be happy with the status quo. We could, however, adjust the lead because the contemporary usage of the port's name should be given equal prominence. I would slightly prefer the lead sentence to read as 'Foyle Port, known as Londonderry Port until 20xx' where xx represents the year the name was changed. But since that information isn't available, could we adjust the lead sentence to 'Londonderry Port, now known as Foyle Port,...'? 'Otherwise known' as gives off the impression that Foyle Port is simply a nickname. st170e 00:45, 4 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The splitting in those examples is rather different - they are more detailed articles on one part of the port in question. In this article it is, as noted above, just a question of branding, I think. Davidships (talk) 23:43, 6 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict)

@St170e::I understand your concern (I think) but the suggested change to the lead is kind of begging the question we are discussing.
If I can give an example (by way of analogy): The Port of Liverpool is several hundred years old, and in its heyday stretched across over more than two dozen docks along 7 miles of waterfront. Nowadays its operation is confined to the Seaforth Container Terminal (and latterly the Liverpool2 deep water berth). But the PoL isn't “now known as”, or even “otherwise known as” Seaforth (or L2): those are parts of a greater (and older) whole. Similarly, Foyle Port is (AFAICT) the name used for the Lissahawley terminal, and is only one (albeit, probably, the main one) of the LP&HC operations. Part of a greater and older whole. Do you see what I mean?
But I'm not averse to a change that achieves what you wish to make clear, so long as we don't lose what I've been trying to express here. Xyl 54 (talk) 23:51, 6 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Just a thought; how about "Londonderry Port, now operating as Foyle Port"? Xyl 54 (talk) 23:54, 6 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
My concern was that we should give equal weighting to the name Foyle Port, but the suggestion you've come up with addresses that and I'm happy with that solution. st170e 16:27, 7 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
OK, done. Thanks, Xyl 54 (talk) 23:56, 8 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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