Talk:List of aircraft losses during the Russo-Ukrainian War/Archive 1

Archive 1

Untitled

I used [List of Soviet aircraft losses in the Soviet war in Afghanistan] as a template. However, it could be discussed if this page should include all aircraft losses (Noteable the MH17, and perhaps future Russian/other parties losses) or strictly be for Ukraine.

Need help with adjusting the references. GranQ (talk) 09:50, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

Aircraft origin

The columns look crammed even on a widescreen, and I don't see how stating in a column the aircraft origin brings anything meaningful to the topic of the article, which is a list of aircraft losses and not an inventory of the Ukrainian Air Force. Removing the column would make easier to look at the important info of the table. Oscar-HaP (talk) 09:00, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

UAV

I think this downed Tupolev UAV should be included. http://rt.com/news/177472-ukraine-soviet-drone-down/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.47.107.247 (talk) 00:31, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Right now the consensus on War in Donbass is that RussiaToday (among other sources) are not reliable sources for these matters. As a personal opinion, the militants may very well have taken the UAV out of storage and smashed it a bit, as it looks quite fine to have fallen from the air. Oscar-HaP (talk) 09:09, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

it does not matter if militants took it out of storage, once it belonged to ukrainian army, now they cant use it anymore, so it is their loss. And if you don't believe RT, you could believe video in the article which is very clear. --31.47.107.247 (talk) 23:01, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

To update the info

I recommend this link:

http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/dblist.php?Year=2014&page=28

Some of the Ukranian loses are not included still. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.13.209.183 (talk) 07:28, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Indian Think Tank

An Indian Think Thank have said, that according to their reseach this are the following Ukranian Forces losses in Material. Land and Air.
http://idrw.org/archives/59157
Mr.User200 (talk) 21:14, 4 March 2015 (UTC)

Title

The title "2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine" reads as an obvious euphemism. It is also excessively long. What about changing it to "2014 Russian intervention in Ukraine". I am being very balanced here, "2014 Russian invasion of Ukraine" would be more accurate.101.98.188.150 (talk) 02:40, 16 November 2014 (UTC)

Nobody cares about your bullshit. At this time there's no war between Russia and Ukraine. No war - no invasion. 217.173.18.179 (talk) 12:35, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

Arcady Babchenko

russian-journalist-arkady-babchenko-alive-today-alive

In the above article it mentions a helicopter shoot down that is not on this list. I can't find any other details. There also appears to have been another shoot down in 2016 that is also not listed.--Senor Freebie (talk) 05:54, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Updated

Just updated the Ukranian total tally, also added the fact that some Russian/DPR/LPR drones have been shotdown or reported lost. I am using multiple sources. Most Ukranian official sources agree on 22 fixed and rotary aircraft lost. But also found another source talking about 28 aircraft lost.Mr.User200 (talk) 18:51, 20 February 2021 (UTC) I think it's better to make a separated list for the new escalation due to the fact it's a large scale war involved Russia directly and doesn't cover Donbas region only.--Amr F.Nagy (talk) 20:57, 24 February 2022 (UTC)

Extra section for unattributed losses?

An Mi-24/35 went down, but we don't know who it belonged to. I think an unattributed losses section could work IdkIdc12345 (talk) 21:02, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

It's a Mi-35 and of both combatants only Russia uses that type of helicopter. So it's Russian. Also there is a footage from one day ago in Kherson of a Russian helicopter being shot down. Likely this one.Mr.User200 (talk) 02:46, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Medium use and IP edits

Regarding the discussion on Reliable Sources Medium is still considered Generally Unreliable. So since there is not still a consensus we won't add them in this page.Mr.User200 (talk) 01:24, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Regarding the attack on the Ukrainian airbase, it left 6 Mig-29 heavily damaged and the number and type of aircraft is clearly stated in the sources and the video. We should keep that entry because other European states have promised to supply Ukraine with that type of aircraft, and in the future the same footage could be used to say that the aircraft was destroyed. For historic and as a fact check criteria we should include it. It doesn't matter if those planes were lacking spare parts or no, they is no way to know it, the second source provided clearly state that.Mr.User200 (talk) 02:23, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

c'mon man, those poor things on the tarmac still showing the red star they had 30 years ago. Are you serious? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.4.230.207 (talk) 10:14, 1 March 2022 (UTC) and you can't just throw an ASN entry detailed by twitter for those 2 Su-25, if you go by twitter, Oryx (@oryxspioenkop)... well THAT man has a list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.4.230.207 (talk) 10:23, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

User VNKD you will be blocked again and again if you don't follow the ban policy. You should take a break of six months. Regarding the Oryx, he also consider two Su-25s lost as the current version of the article.Mr.User200 (talk) 11:54, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Regarding Medium, the account under discussion is actually run by the Atlantic Council, not just some random person. For that reason I'm inclined to think it's probably reliable, unless there's evidence of inaccuracy or bias? FDW777 (talk) 11:24, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Unrelated accident

Was it confirmed that the Romanian MiG-21 and the Romanian rescue helicopter SA 300 Puma were shot down due to Russian/Ukrainian fire? Did these aircrafts crash into Ukrainian lands or waters?

Till the moment the cause of crash isn't known for both aircrafts, the helicopter's crash site was found 11 km from its airfield within Romanian borders, but the fate and crash location of the Mig is not also known.

So if an aircraft belongs to any air force of the border countries of Ukraine, flying in an ordinary air patrol and crashed outside the Ukrainian borders due to any cause but not hostile fire, does it count?--Amr F.Nagy (talk) 12:13, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Until the reason of the crash is not, clarified we should consider it. Crashes tend to happened from time to time, but since the Mig-21 crash happened near the Ukranian frontier and are Russian Navy ships near Odessa right now. That's more than nessesary con take into a account. Mr.User200 (talk) 13:02, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

I've added that this MiG was way inside Romanian airspace. --Markscheider (talk) 19:43, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Location of second Su-34 Crash

Akhtubinsk is a town in Russia not Ukraine, the wreckage displayed is either later identified to Su-25 or its the same Su-34 were parts of the aircraft fell in rural areas, before the main wreckage crashed in urban region, another opinion is this the remains of either Ukrainian Su-25/27 that were downed by a Russian Su-35 151.236.174.102 (talk) 17:59, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Agree, likely a error while editing. Seems the article of Cooper changed its content, no longer a mention Akhtubinks.Mr.User200 (talk) 03:02, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Two Su-25 downed on March 4th and location of second one

The second Su-25SM was downed over Irpin not Volnovakha, initially announced as Su-30SM but later checking of wreckage proved to be of Su-25SM 151.236.174.63 (talk) 08:01, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Serial no. of the other 3 Su-25 that was downed

RF-91958 RF-93026 RF-93872 151.236.174.63 (talk) 08:02, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Mi-24/35 shot down in Kyiv Oblast March

I highly doubt that this is an real video, even if some sources say so. The quality of this vid differs from virtually all other ukrainian war vids in that this is hi-res, not shaky at all etc. Even if this can be explained by the thesis in the aviationist that it was recorded by an drone - what are the chances, that such an drone would be in the right place at the right time, recording, an with an skilled operator at the controls to follow this fast Heli from left to right? Imvho it is much more likely that is an recording from some combat simulator. The smoke looks also pretty much artificial.--Markscheider (talk) 19:52, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Most likely video of a helicopter wreck with registration number RF-94966" belong to that recorded interception. Same place, same background. The aviatonist says the footage looks genuine, so more likely its real.Mr.User200 (talk) 02:37, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

May i kindly ask if you've read my post? Markscheider (talk) 11:59, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Russian Su-27 downed over Kiev on March 9th

Pilot ejected but parachute didn't deploy 151.236.174.63 (talk) 08:29, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Seems it's a Su-25. Just placed the event. However there is a problem, we can't use Tweets as primary sources, however we can use primary sources(Reliable like The Drive, Janes, etc) that after a anaylis corroborate the information reported in tweets. Also we can use the Ukrainian MOD page that is claiming Russian losses with photographic evidence, always displaying registration numbers, place of crash (very important) and fate of pilots. Just to avoid doble counting and fakes.Mr.User200 (talk) 12:39, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

@151.236.174.63 yes thank you, I try to suggest only reliable info 151.236.174.63 (talk) 13:58, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Ukranian MiG-29 down on March 2nd

The engagement happened according to Ukrainian MoD against 2 Su-35 not Su-34 and they claim shooting down both Russian Super Flankers, we don't have physical evidence for this engagement, so why posting the Ukrainian loss based on Ukrainian MoD info but not the Russian loss from tge same source?! 151.236.174.63 (talk) 14:01, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Co-Pilot of Su-30SM Russian Naval Aviation

also Captured with orange jump suit 151.236.174.63 (talk) 14:28, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Another Su-25 shutdown

Ukrainians claims they found the remains of Su-25 Pilot near Behy village, Zhytomyr region shutdown on March 10th 37.239.215.19 (talk) 19:36, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

Ukranian MiG-29 down on March 2nd

The engagement happened according to Ukrainian MoD against 2 Su-35 not Su-34 and they claim shooting down both Russian Super Flankers, we don't have physical evidence for this engagement, so why posting the Ukrainian loss based on Ukrainian MoD info but not the Russian loss from tge same source?! 151.236.174.63 (talk) 14:05, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Because they have acknowledged the loss. It's the same criteria used at the first Russian Su-25 lost/crashed. There is no pictures of it, but official statement is enough for inclusion.Mr.User200 (talk) 14:19, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

@151.236.174.63 so why not to include the 2 Russian Su-35s?! 151.236.174.63 (talk) 14:29, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

Because those are claims made by one of the warring parties regarding the other.Mr.User200 (talk) 20:09, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

@151.236.174.63 again it was against Su-35 not Su-34 151.236.174.236 (talk) 13:00, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

I never said Su-34, confused Su-24 with Su-25.Mr.User200 (talk) 02:05, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

@151.236.174.63 article still mentions MiG-29 downed with fight vs Su-34s, while the link mentions Su-35s 151.236.174.208 (talk) 07:43, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

List as per a reliable source

According to the following website, updated on a daily basis by a team pf professional researchers (an authors) this =>[1] is the List Of Aircraft Losses During The 2022 Russian Invasion Of Ukraine.

Last but not least this Su-25 "Blue 39" =>[2], reported as (shot down near Hlibivka) March 17, was the one actually flown by Lt.Col Gennady Matulyak downed on 26 Feb. 2022. [3] --Nicola Romani (talk) 20:22, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

The first site you provided is a Self Published source without any type of Reliability. Regarding Censor.net i would check if is the same airframe or another one.Mr.User200 (talk) 02:18, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, fixed! Could not access the site, used Wayback Machine for link.Mr.User200 (talk) 02:31, 30 March 2022 (UTC)

Romanian accidents

Should the MiG-21 and IAR 330 accidents still be kept? It is official that these were accidents due to bad weather and happened nowhere near the conflict zones. A very likely false claim did appear that the "MiG was mistakenly shot down by a Ukrainian S-300" but as you can probably check, this source that was cited previously is unreliable. I did update the info and added that the eight servicemen were promoted and decorated by the president posthumously, but if it's decided to remove the section completely, I'm fine with that. Alin2808 (talk) 23:50, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

We should keep the loss of both Romanian airframes, because of the context and geographical proximity, regarding the allegations of S-300 activity on the loss of the Romanian Mig-21. We could wait some days until more sources corroborate or deny the claim. If the version is not ratified by other sources errase it.Mr.User200 (talk) 02:11, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

Sure. However, look, the MiG-21 disappeared while over the village of Cogealac, which is 75 km away from the Ukrainian border at the closest. Even if, somehow, an Ukrainian S-300 system was close enough to the border to be in range (the range of the S-300 is about 200 km) it still makes no sense. If this were to happen, there would be some serious issues. Shooting down a NATO aircraft, that is well inside NATO airspace, which crashed on NATO territory is pretty much enough to trigger Article 5 of the alliance and Ukraine can't even claim "it was an accident" because as said, the airplane was 75 km inside Romanian airspace. Now, if we look at the source, it says that the claims were made by Mail Bd, but let's look at what they say:

"The plane disappeared from radar when it was over the Black Sea." - wrong, as said before;

"As officially announced in Bucharest, the IAR 330 helicopter went in the evening...There were five soldiers on board." - wrong, there were seven soldiers;

"By the way, according to media reports, the Romanian fighter escorted the Ukrainian Su-27." - what even..?

"Recall that the President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky blamed the death of people in Ukraine on Western partners, who, according to him, refuse to close the sky and provide aircraft. In a word, I found the culprits …" - yeah, definitely no lies here, he got the absolute truth... Alin2808 (talk) 03:00, 12 March 2022 (UTC)

@Mr.User200 So, it's been 5 days since the article was first posted on that Mail BD source and no other sources trustworthy or official sources making this claim have come up. I would say it's safe to assume the source is unreliable and should be removed from the article. Alin2808 (talk) 18:07, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

Done, no other source report the same.Mr.User200 (talk) 18:43, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

And here's the new official response to these fake news. Alin2808 (talk) 08:18, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

I agree with @Alin2808:, this section must go and keep some info like sources on the RoAF page. Nicola Romani (talk) 19:38, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

Though I do think it might be best to move the accidents to the section RoAF article, specifically to Romanian Air Force#2022 Russian Invasion of Ukraine, there is an argument to be made in that the MiG-21s that were out on patrol because of "increased air police missions in Romania after the Russian invasion of Ukraine", as one source said. But other than this, again, this has nothing else to do with the war. Alin2808 (talk) 20:01, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Agree! IMHO you can proceed. Nicola Romani (talk) 16:11, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

We should include the aircraft crash because is geographically related and also those air patrols were carried out for security reasons amid the Russian invasion of Ukraine.Mr.User200 (talk) 18:01, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

And yet this list is about losses that happened as a direct result of the conflict, is it not? As in one of the combatants was involved in the incident. In this case, again, neither Russia, nor Ukraine had anything to do with the two accidents, check Romanian Air Force#2022 Russian Invasion of Ukraine Alin2808 (talk) 18:27, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Agree with Mr.User200, some kind of mention of these Romanian losses, whether due to accident or shootdown (although it seems to have been an accident), deserves a mention on this page since they were operating in response to the conflict taking place 60 miles from the crash site. EkoGraf (talk) 18:45, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Though the MiGs were sent on a patrol due to the increased air presence because of the war, the one MiG-21 and the helicopter were lost in an accident, the shoot down news were just propaganda trying to blame the Ukrainians (if you checked the MailBD site which appears to be the start of the story). As mentioned, the accidents are already in the Romanian Air Force article. If these are to stay here as well, then the fake news part should be added and these should be removed from the table of losses as this might lead people to believe the MiG and the IAR-330 were lost because they were shot down. Alin2808 (talk) 23:15, 30 April 2022 (UTC)

Table of Losses.

The table at the end of the article is made from directly from the report displayed in the body of the List. There is no reason to errase since is a resume of the work currently being made.Mr.User200 (talk) 18:51, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

It needs sources. Volunteer Marek 20:42, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

I can place them but it will look terrible with a lot of references. It's far better to check the content of the article.Mr.User200 (talk) 21:59, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

I agree, the table should stay. But I still think the two Romanian accidents should be excluded from it as those aircraft were not lost in the war. Alin2808 (talk) 23:18, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

Remove 11 March 2022 item about 2022 Zagreb Tu-141 crash

Remove 11 March 2022 item about 2022 Zagreb Tu-141 crash:

• Ukrainian Air Force – 11 March 2022: One Tu-141 reconnaissance drone crashed in front of a student campus in Zagreb, Croatia. The Croatian president, Zoran Milanović, said it was clear the drone came from the direction of Ukraine, entering Croatia after flying over Hungary.

"From direction of Ukraine" doesn't mean "launched by Ukrainian Air Force".

Ukrainian Defence Minister's adviser Markiyan Lubkivsky in a statement to Croatian media denied that the UAV which crashed in Zagreb belongs to Ukraine. [4] 92.113.168.56 (talk) 03:10, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: There is now an extra sentence (with a citation). Happy Editing--IAmChaos 02:39, 27 May 2022 (UTC)

Claims of Russian Su-35 and Su-25 loss.

Regarding the claims made by enemy combatants they are not included in the List since there are just statements without further evidence(photos, videos of the wreck) we only consider visual evidence and reports of the loss of the pilots and crew made by the same state the combatant belong. Regarding the Su-25 loss of Kanamat Botashev we consider it since 1) Ukraine made the claim of the loss of the attack aircraft days before, 2) A photo of the crash exist 3)BBC cited three Russian nationals that acknownleged the loss of the General in the same place and date.Mr.User200 (talk) 18:28, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Claim of Ka-52 shot down in Izyum.

Same here, no visible wreck, no pilot obituary, its a empty claim. Please stop adding cliams made by the sides unless are proven by imagery.Mr.User200 (talk) 18:23, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Russian Su-25 crashed

I'm including the Su-25 crash in the list since a) The crash was reported in Belgorod close to the Combat Theater of Operation and b) The same criteria for crashes have been used for the Ukranian An-26 and both of the Romanian craft destroyed.Mr.User200 (talk) 14:15, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

About the An-225 destruction

The plane was destroyed between March 26 and March 27, more likely at some point on March 27, but not March 24. Not only because of the date of the first reports about it, but there is also a video maybe from late February 26 or 27, taken with a phone from one of the airport buildings. In the parking lot next to the hangar there are dozens of active Russian vehicles and the hangar and the plane can be seen intact. The video was apparently taken after the arrival of the russian reinforcements and before the artillery attack that destroyed some vehicles and the plane, the result of which is seen in other video, with the plane destroyed and vehicles nearby aflame (the attack that a Russian prisoner recounts in an interview). I think it is one more example that the plane was destroyed by the Ukrainian artillery when attacking the Russian forces at the airport. Found the video again, here [5] , [6] , [7] 152.207.201.41 (talk) 03:42, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Flag of the Wagner Group.svg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 02:06, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

Zestrzelenie rosyjskiego Ka-52

Śmigłowiec został zestrzelony przez żołnierz armii ukraińskiej w dniu 04.12.2022 około godziny 14.00 w obwodzie Zaporoskim, nagranie prawdopodobnie nagrane telefonem wideo razem z komentarzem znajduje się tutaj: https://t.me/hyevuy_dnepr/42841 91.231.25.156 (talk) 17:16, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Hi IP, this is the English Wikipedia, please use English.

It so happens that I know what you're talking about. Wikipedia is not liveUAmap; updates take time. It will be added in due course.

RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 02:36, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Drones,helicopters, transports and fighters/attack aircraft

Would it be possible to split the drone, helicopter, transport and fighters/attack aircraft totals in the table for clarity? It should help give a better idea of the impact when they are used for analysis (fighters are of more value than drones for example.)

Side note: I originally only wanted to spit the drones and manned aircraft. 169.0.66.62 (talk) 14:06, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

I would definitely support at least splitting UAVs into a separate section. RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 02:17, 18 December 2022 (UTC) RadioactiveBoulevardier (talk) 02:17, 18 December 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Flag of the Wagner Group (variant).svg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:52, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Destruction of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17

Malaysia Airlines flight 17 was an aircraft, which was destroyed by one of the parties of the Russo-Ukrainian War (it was "lost"), during the relevant time period, hence I would expect it to be listed here - even though it did not belong to any of the combatants. Am I mistaken? 121.200.4.96 (talk) 00:23, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Facebook The Military watch

Do you use this facebook https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100071807121016? I ask because he posts unique photos and videos every day that are not on any of the sites and would help a lot to complete this article for example this video about shooting down a Ka-52 which is not in this article https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JusuUap1TvY 91.231.25.156 (talk) 09:17, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

It's one aircraft

(2) Russian Air Force – 5 March 2022: A two-seat Su-34, registration number RF-81879, call sign Red 24, was shot down by Ukrainian forces near Chernihiv at 1130 hours. Both pilots ejected. Ukrainian forces captured the pilot; the co-pilot died.[400][401][402] Another Su-34 was destroyed near Vyhovtsi, Khmelnytskyi Oblast. One of the pilots died.[403]

Vyhovtsi - is not city or village, it's abbreviated name soldiers of 58th motorized brigade (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/58th_Independent_Motorized_Infantry_Brigade_(Ukraine)). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.254.250.177 (talk) 19:58, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Shot down Granat-4 and Sukhoi Su-34

The remains of a Russian Army Granat-4 reconnaissance UAV were found by Ukrainian forces in Rivne Oblast. The photo was first posted on 5 February 2023: https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/308072 .Previously unseen wreckage of a Russian Air Force Sukhoi Su-34 was found. The photo was first posted on 8 February 2023: https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/308128 Dombo78 (talk) 15:16, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Shot down ZALA 421-16E and edit post from July 19

Recently, a Russian Army ZALA 421-16E reconnaissance UAV was downed by Ukrainian forces in Kharkiv Oblast. The footage of the drone was first posted on 8 February 2023:https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100071807121016 ,February 10 post. Editing the post with July 19 about russia losses on this article to shoot down an unidentified Russian plane because pictures and video surfaced showing it was a Sukhoi Su-35S: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=pfbid051QHLeHen79heUYGuJ2SSP4yLPZqhf36Xv4jkr4Sbd4TD1wDgySnm2itz5gSUUGjl&id=105014091900208&fbclid=IwAR3qf5PmQdf7wjyN3qlKVuUIUwRC34d_A1FxV6fI5OlIR1I9ZEvh8nZCNxs , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X9rO6SAlE4 Dombo78 (talk) 18:43, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

Two ejections, no markings on debris. Maybe not an Su-35. Markscheider (talk) 19:35, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

Drones and crewed aircraft

I think this article should separate crewed and uncrewed aircraft into two different categories for both Ukraine and Russia because it doesn't make sense to have a list containing both extremely cheap drones and multi-million dollar fighter jets next to each other as if they are somehow equal. — Nythar (💬-❄️) 04:23, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

@BlackFlanker: Since you're a contributor to this article, may I ask for your opinion on splitting the aircraft losses into two sections per country -- one for uncrewed aircraft (e.g. cheap drones) and another for crewed aircraft (fighter jets & helicopters)? — Nythar (💬-❄️) 13:47, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

Good idea, it could make the article less chaotic. We can take a look at the List of aviation shootdowns and accidents during the Iraq War article as an example. I would also support to separete the losses by year when they happened. However, I would rather not merge the losses from Donbas War period with the ones after Russia's full scale intervention into the conflict. BlackFlanker (talk) 18:32, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

@Mr.User200: Since you're a contributor too, what's your opinion about this? BlackFlanker (talk) 15:20, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Since they're not responding, I think we can go ahead and apply these changes. They aren't too major anyway. — Nythar (💬-❄️) 21:52, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

What happened to previous incidents? I'm asking because I can't see all of them. For example, the incident with the Su-25 on March 1, 2023 is not visible. Dombo78 (talk) 17:51, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

I have added a table to one part of the article. Doing this to the entire article will be difficult, so I'll need some time. Nythar (💬-❄️) 01:13, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Beriev A-50

I recommend that we exclude it from this list because it's not an aircraft loss. Although there is no reasonable doubt an attack has taken place, we also know that the A-50 was flown to Taganrog, allegedly for repairs. So we dont know about the amount of damage, but if it flies, it aint a loss. Markscheider (talk) 20:37, 8 March 2023 (UTC)

Since nobody has objected for five days, i've removed this section. Markscheider (talk) 13:55, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

I think you could put this incident as a loss as long as it says it's broken. As with the incident with the damage to the Tu-22 and Tu-95 at the Engels base, they were damaged. Dombo78 (talk) 20:41, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Agree. If we consider all damaged aircrafts as not a loss we should remove all other damaged aircrafts from statistics everywhere, from the both sides of the conflict. Because we don't know how fast all other aircrafts were repaired and could fly again (if they were). Avaness (talk) 23:54, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. But this one in particular _did fly_ within days after the alleged attack. Therefore it can't count as an loss by using sound reasoning. Markscheider (talk) 06:39, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Kartograf

does the Kartograf uav downing incident count as a loss in this article? I think so, but I have to make sure. Dombo78 (talk) 20:15, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Not all are loses

I notice a great part of the "loses" in the article are not loses, only planes with some kind of damage. --USUARIOWIKI23 (talk) 10:21, 26 March 2023 (UTC)

Copy edits

Among the copy edits I would recommend:

• Replace {{Cite web}} with {{Cite news}} for news stories. It doesn't affect display but is a message to editors that the item is a bonafide news story.
• Avoid all caps, including in Cyrillic script article titles. WordPerfect is one program that can easily convert all caps, including Cyrillic, to initial caps.
• Every article title in a language other than English should have an English trans-title.
• Article titles given in English when the language is other than English should move the title to trans-title and supply the original title, as a script-title if the original language uses a non-Latin script.

—Anomalocaris (talk) 07:48, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

18th fixed wing aircraft of Ukrainian losses

It is mentioned that "An Su-27 was shot down by MANPADS over Kropyvnytskyi, Kirovohrad Oblast. Its pilot, Maj. Stepan Chobanu, was killed. He was awarded the title of Hero of Ukraine on 3 March."

But the problem is that sources are not mentioning MANPADS, it was an air combat and no Russian ground troops in a 100km area from Kropyvnytskyi. 176.113.167.189 (talk) 19:06, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Pilot information

Would it be more appropriate to remove personally identifying information about pilots in this article? Other similar pages on Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.. typically seem to use phrases such as "the pilot" or "the crew". Personally, the use of names seems to abrogate the principles described in Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons. This would also bring the article in line with the standards set by the Aviation Safety Network Wikibase, which I see is quite a common source here. Finally, this would also bring this article closer in compliance with the national laws set by both countries concerned. 222.152.243.181 (talk) 08:20, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Questionable Entry: Starokostiantyniv Air Base ("five Su-24 bombers damaged beyond repair")

The citation to aviation-safety says, "Information is not confirmed, only from Russian sources." And the two citations on aviation-safety do not specify the aircraft allegedly destroyed, yet the wording in the Wikipedia article says they were "Su-24 bombers." Seems like a bit of propaganda has snuck into this article, unless a better citation can be provided? 2601:640:8A00:1A0:D17B:6F3A:FAE7:1B4B (talk) 02:04, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

Questionable Entry: 8 May 2023 Su-24

A Russian Su-24 was set on fire in a partisan attack on Novosibirsk Aircraft Production Association Plant, Russia. The aircraft was in storage for a long time and only the landing gear was damaged by the fire.

If its only damaged, then the airframe is not a loss. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drgonzo (talk • contribs) 17:20, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

Questionable Entry: 2 March 2022 Romanian MiG-21

The Romanian MiG-21 that crashed on 2 March 2022 seems to be largely unrelated to the war in Ukraine. The only tangible link is a Russian source claiming that Romanian officials say that Ukraine shot it down, which is highly dubious and without any evidence or corroboration. It should probably be removed, or moved to a more relevant article.

https://www.stopfake.org/en/fake-ukrainian-air-defense-shot-down-romanian-mig-21/

Vrrtigo (talk) 20:05, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 October 2023 (2)

remove the link to the TU-22 under the destroyed TU-22M as it's misleading TzaroftheGlorious (talk) 03:39, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

 Done Tollens (talk) 08:50, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 October 2023

change posibly to possibly - you should be able to find the typo using ctrl+f TzaroftheGlorious (talk) 03:37, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

 Done Tollens (talk) 08:47, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Regarding this entry - it's an Su-35S, not an Su-25. Also Su-35S is an single seater, so only one casualty. Markscheider (talk) 08:51, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 October 2023

the most recent aircraft loss addition to the russian aircraft lost since 2022 is listed as an SU-25, when it should be an SU-35. Connor19817 (talk) 07:31, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

 Done ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 14:54, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Latest Su-35 downing by friendly fire

There is a mistake in the information, it says su-25 instead of su-35 over Tokmak and crew of 2 instead of 1 2604:3D09:A880:10F0:6137:5C9A:FCAE:D6C8 (talk) 10:30, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

 Done ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 15:15, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Ukraine fix wings loses on the 28th of May 2023

Why was this event removed? I think it's quite significant. I don't know, maybe some pro-Ukrainian troll did it? Anyway, that's not right. Maybe someone can fix the issue? I think this is not the way to improve the loss ratio, the correct solution is to shoot down more Russian planes. https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/313973 94.44.111.20 (talk) 10:58, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Cease recording UAV losses and remove existing UAV lists

I find it distracting to have long lists of UAV losses on the page. I do not think it is comparable to have a helicopter or fixed wing aircraft costing say 20 million alongside a drone costing 2 hundred, 2 thousand or even 20 thousand. Drones are being lost at, I would guess, 100+ a day, so there is no point in listing just 0.1% of them. Lose the UAV lists and just do a short paragraph about drones highlighting 2 or 3 notable ones, and maybe list each type of drone identified. Ânes-pur-sàng (talk) 09:24, 24 December 2023 (UTC)

MQ-9 loss

The MQ-9 loss shouldn't be included here as the U.S. is not an active belligerent in this war and the MQ-9 was downed over international waters. – Illegitimate Barrister (talk • contribs), 04:04, 14 January 2024 (UTC)

Only according to US. Also the context is important the loss took place amid US role in the conflict.Mr.User200 (talk) 13:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Site is a mess?

Latest losses missing & most tables cannot be sorted by date ...

oh they are supposedly in here "An Su-35 was shot down over Eastern Ukraine, the pilot was evacuated by a CSAR helicopter mission. Ukraine claimed to have shot down 7 Russian jets during the actions from 17 to 21 February.[618]" but there are multiple times alleged and looking at the table at the glance it looks like only 1 loss.

--2A02:908:1065:B8E0:4517:AAD:A66:6625 (talk) 11:25, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

I will say that as a rule of thumb Side A overreports casualties inflicted on Side B and vice versa. The alleged sort of makes up for that. I dunno about the tables but a needs update tag should be easy to insert. 🇺🇲JayCubby✡ plz edit my user pg! Talk 11:35, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

The article and table only cites and mention proven losses. Not claims. Side A claims many more losses that side B.Mr.User200 (talk) 13:11, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

@Mr.User200 You have a fair point. By the way, nice userpage! 🇺🇲JayCubby✡ plz edit my user pg! Talk 13:14, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Sgpnkd. To the record, we dont use claims on the article or table regarding aicraft shootdowns. It will be unberable. Also avoid using Newsweek as a source.Mr.User200 (talk) 14:20, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 February 2024

Change "Ukranianian" to "Ukrainian" Slazac (talk) 14:22, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done ARandomName123 (talk)^{Ping me!} 16:08, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 March 2024

Russian Air Force Unixi (talk) 14:47, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Sincerely, Guessitsavis (she/they) (Talk) 15:42, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

MANPADS

For the article is protected...

MANPADS = man-portable air defense system(s). The uppercase "S" does not indicate plural. It's really simple, to wit:

One MANPADS. Two MANPADS. 200 MANPADS. The MANPADS. A (single) MANPADS. 78.54.16.251 (talk) 01:21, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

L-39 “Albatros damaged

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1770602083198111774 -> "Russian Sources have released Footage showing a Strike by a Lancet One-Way “Suicide” Drone on a Temporary Hanger at Mykolaiv Airport containing a L-39 “Albatros” Training Aircraft, with the Net Hanger appearing to have been Totally Destroyed but the Status of the Aircraft currently Unknown."

https://twitter.com/Military_oO/status/1770499993545117838 - "the video shows a seemingly unsuccessful attempt by the Lancet to destroy L-39 Albatros somewhere in the south. The UAV flew straight into the net, and the aircraft was unlikely to receive significant damage" Cristi767 (talk) 21:45, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

2022 Russian fixed-wing losses

What happened to to the 2022 Russian fixed-wing losses that are now missing? Nicola Romani (talk) 07:16, 31 March 2024 (UTC)