Talk:Kate Smith

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Irving Berlin[edit]

Irving Berlin DID NOT write this song for Kate Smith. According to the entry "God Bless America" on Wikipedia, he wrote it for a revue called Yip Yip Yaphank, a tribute to the U.S. Army during World War I. The year given was circa 1917–1918. He decided not to use it in the revue at that time, substituting "We're on our way to France" instead. He decided to revise and release it in 1938 and chose Kate Smith to introduce it via a radio broadcast on November 11th, 1938 then called, Armistice Day. Kate Smith DID sing "God Bless America" in the 1943 Warner Bros. production of This is the Army. T.E. Goodwin 06:57, 23 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject class rating[edit]

This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 15:46, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Controversial"?[edit]

The article states She sang the controversial top twenty song of 1931, "That's Why Darkies Were Born". It seems unlikely this song was controversial in 1931, it was performed by Paul Robeson and its title used in a joke by Rufus T. Firefly. I'm inclined to remove the word, and perhaps the entire sentence, since it's something of a non sequitur. --CliffC (talk) 04:53, 2 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The song itself may not have been "controversial" at the time, that's true. However, Kate Smith herself is a controversial historical figure because she popularized a tune (and herself in the bargain) with overtly racial lyrics. Just because Paul Robeson sang it and Groucho Marx joked about it doesn't make the song less racist and it's disingenuous to imply that. Woody Guthrie wrote "This Land is Your Land" as a direct response to Smith's "God Bless America", because Smith and her music represented mainstream America's views at the time, which Guthrie did not agree with. And considering the social changes that were to come in the United States, he wasn't the only one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.138.92.237 (talk) 04:59, 26 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Pleasant Memory[edit]

I was born in 1930, and when homesick during grade school, every day I listened to Kate Smith, whose talk show was introduced by Ted Collins saying: "It's high noon in New York, and time for Kate Smith." She was a delight to listen to. 76.1.252.112 (talk) 18:57, 9 June 2009 (UTC)Bob Beers[reply]

Dispute with St. Agnes Church concerning her burial[edit]

This passage of the article is very interesting, but with no references at all. Where does it come from? It would be hard to let such detailed claims stand alone. --Melchior2006 (talk) 12:40, 23 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Purchase of B-24 Liberator[edit]

This may seem too trivial for the article, but I attended a "Planes of Fame" history event Sat. June 4th, 2011 in Chino, CA and a Maj. Robert Sternfels (Pilot of the B-24 "Sandman" in the operation Tidal Wave / Ploesti Raid) spoke and mentioned a B-24 Liberator bomber was named for Kate Smith. Some internet searches do describe a B-24 liberator as being named in her honor. Bob specifically mentioned that Kate paid for the aircraft -- about $260K in 1943 dollars. My father is a WW-2 vet and he confirmed that several successful and/or wealthy people purchased aircraft or other military equipment to support the war effort. Just thought I'd mention it.71.139.65.209 (talk) 08:11, 6 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Kate Smith Anti-Semitic[edit]

My elderly aunt claims that Kate Smith was anti-Semitic. I can't find one single example on the internet. Does anyone know origin of this rumor or have knowledge of the episode(s)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ericsilver (talk • contribs) 12:50, 16 September 2011 (UTC) drop dead jackass — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.185.243.40 (talk) 03:29, 26 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well she was definitely racist. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.252.183.253 (talk) 22:29, 26 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

No she wasn't. 98.165.25.234 (talk) 06:18, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]


Idiots should listen to the song first. It was probably the most anti-racist song of the time up to today. 2601:181:8301:4510:483A:2C73:EB23:F9C8 (talk) 15:14, 22 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Factual Errors[edit]

The phrase "confined to a wheelchair" is demeaning, offensive, and oppressive, and most of all illogical, and should not be used here. A person is never "confined to a wheelchair": he doesn't shower or sleep in his wheelchair. When he rides a plane he rides in a seat, not his wheelchair. "Confined" is inaccurate and conveys an inaccurate stereotype of inability of wheelchair users to engage in sexual, social, travel and physical pursuits. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Denverjason (talk • contribs) 03:10, 27 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Go confine yourself, you disabled fool. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.168.133.49 (talk) 07:52, 18 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The summary box contains erroneous information regarding Kate Smith's birthplace: She was not born in London, England, but in Greenville, VA, as stated under Early Life. Drsusan44 (talk) 15:24, 22 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Flyers[edit]

I went to a Flyers home game a few weeks ago. Lauren Hart did indeed sing, but she sang The Star-Spangled Banner, not God Bless America. So the situation is not as the article describes it. I can't find any info online about when the change happened, and whether they switch back and forth. I'm inclined to add a 'fact' tag, in the hope that some better-informed editor can resolve this (and add a cite). TypoBoy (talk) 18:12, 9 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Parents and education[edit]

If the William H. Smith who registered for the World War I draft in Washington, D.C. on September 12, 1918 is in fact her father--his listing of a "Lottie Smith" as his closest contact (with the same address), being a possible nickname for "Charlotte", and "Proprietor of Capitol News Co." matching the occupation at this page--the family lived at 227 "B" Street in N.W. Washington, D.C. (now Constitution Avenue). A public school fairly close at that time would have been William Seaton School located on "I" Street between 2nd and 3rd Streets N.W. (constructed 1871, demolished 1969). He lists his birth date as October 7, 1880 (making him 38 at the time).--Artaxerxes 15:18, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Father confirmed as one who registered for draft in 1918 in D.C., and she went to Business High School (but does not seem to appear in 1922 yearbook [1]) according to new source.--Artaxerxes 17:52, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Drawing from a number of sources (not all of which are "allowable") parent names and birth/death dates are: Charlotte "Lottie" Yarnell (née Hanby) (1872-1962) and William Herman Smith (1880-?). "Lottie" was indeed a common nickname for "Charlotte" at the time. Issues: with father eight years younger, was he the second husband? Is "Yarnell" another married name? Sometimes names are combined from different ancestral surnames (especially in the South). No death date or place for father? What happened to him?--Artaxerxes 14:14, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

External links modified[edit]

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Sign-on needed[edit]

The article reads:

Her cheery radio sign-on was parodied by comedian Henry Morgan when he launched his own show in 1942: "Good evening, anybody, here's Morgan," which became his sign-on.

However, the article does not appear to contain her actual sign-on, only Morgan's parody.

The absence of the original is awkward, and should be remedied.

Karl gregory jones (talk) 20:36, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

sources for paragraph refuting racism by saying she'd had black musicians on her shows[edit]

One of the sources was apparently a book published by the Kate Smith Foundation, the other was something called The Bookhound. Let's discuss. I'd have objected to the wording used, as it seems to be making the argument that having black musicians on your show says something about whether or not you're a racist, which is at best synthesis, but let's argue sources first. --valereee (talk) 11:47, 24 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Kate Smith Foundation is not associated with Kate Smith. There are virtually no sources about Kate Smith that do not come from Kate Smith, her shows or her fans. What sources would you propose? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.164.71.77 (talk) 12:20, 24 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'd suggest any book that isn't published by the Kate Smith Foundation, any scholarly work, any major newspaper or magazine, where there is plenty of material; not sure what you mean by no sources that don't come from her, her shows, or her fans? We can't use her, her shows, or her fans as direct sources. Someone else in a reliable source needs to be talking about whatever it is you want to add. I see you've reverted my edit. I'll wait for someone else to come along and chime in, as I don't want to start an edit war. If someone does revert you, please don't re-revert; come here and talk instead. I see you're new here, so you may not know that if you revert three times, you can end up being blocked. The policy on that is at WP:3RR --valereee (talk) 13:06, 24 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, and I see I'm behind...you've already reverted another editor. Please stop editing right now until we hash this out here on the talk page. If you get reverted again and you revert that, you will be at three reverts, which is the threshhold for edit warring. Let's talk here. When we reach consensus, we can edit that section again, but you need to stop directly editing it until then. Please respond. --valereee (talk) 13:20, 24 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I've reverted, as the IP hasn't come in to discuss these additions. --valereee (talk) 13:16, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure that's entirely a good idea. It was published by McFarland, which is a notable publisher of academic works. I agree the current wording is SYNTH (there's no way it could reference the current events), but the source could be used to significantly expand the article. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 13:42, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
78.26 Oh, I'm sure that book and multiple others published by the Kate Smith Foundation would be reliable sources for anything factual about her, definitely agreed. I didn't mean to suggest they couldn't be used for anything! Thank you for that clarification. --valereee (talk) 15:14, 25 April 2019 (UTC) ETA: wait, the book isn't published by the Kate Smith Foundation? That's what the original source had said. --valereee (talk) 15:18, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Very weird, the original source was this: Hayes, Richard (1992). Kate Smith On The Radio A Log. Cranston, RI: The Kate Smith/God Bless America Foundation. pp. 39–84. but the most recent citation was Hayes, Richard (1995). Kate Smith: A Biography, With a Discography, Filmography and List of Stage Appearances. Jefferson, NC: MCFarland. pp. 39–84. ISBN 0786400536. which clearly seems to be referring to the same book, one using the book title and the other using the chapter title? But the dates are different... I'm confused. --valereee (talk) 15:26, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
valereee I don't know. Perhaps it was published in conjunction with them. Perhaps it was originally published by the foundation, and then picked up by McFarland because of it's quality. How about I see if my local library has a copy, and we can 1)figure out how much involvement the Foundation had with the publication of the book 2)if the book says anything about her radio show and the participation of African-Americans therein. (as opposed to a mere listing of "guest stars".) 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 15:29, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
lol GMTA...just ordered it from my library. Race is on. :D --valereee (talk) 15:33, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Beat 'ya! I haven't read the whole book, but the following are obvious to me: 1. The book has nothing to do with the Kate Smith Foundation. 2. The book does not address race relations. 3. The book does not even mention some of the artists listed in the removed text, case in point Maurice Rocco which particularly interested me since I wrote the article. It doesn't prove he didn't appear on the show, and in all likelihood he did, sine he appeared on numerous radio shows of the era. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 16:55, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
hahaha! Mine is at "1 of 1 holds." 1. Good to know it can be used as a reliable source without question. 2. Not surprising. 3. Interesting...I'm guessing there was some synthesis/OR going on, per the original question of whether having black musicians on proved no-racism (any more than singing a now-considered-racist song 85 years ago proves racism). --valereee (talk) 19:55, 26 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Valereee:I'm guessing the IP is knowledgeable about Smith, and may have worked with the Foundation at some point. Anyway, here's an editorial from a reliable source that gives some reasonable context that perhaps we can use. [2] 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 03:27, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a similar IP back again. IP, consider creating an account so that we can leave you messages on your talk page. --valereee (talk) 11:57, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Kate Smith's invitation to black musicians and entertainers to appear on her radio and tv shows in highly relevant[edit]

Kate Smith has been accused of racism for singing racist songs. It is logical then to assume a racist would not invite black entertainers and musicians on her radio and television shows, yet Kate Smith did that. She did it during a time when a lot of radio and television hosts were not inviting backs on their shows. Valeree needs to show why it is not relevant to include this information. She has asserted that it is not relevant but offers no proof as to why it isn't. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.164.64.134 (talk) 12:00, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, IP! I've left a message on the talk page for your IP at User talk:71.164.64.134 that gives you a link to register an account. That would make it easier for us to have discussions. I'm happy to discuss here. The fact a person had black entertainers on their show can't be used by wikipedia to proof a person isn't racist. That would be synthesis, which you can read about at WP:Synthesis. By the same token, singing a racist song can't be used by Wikipedia to prove racism. We only report what other people are saying. That's why I added the quote from the Plain Dealer. --valereee (talk) 12:14, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

And I am only reporting that her biographer lists numerous radio and television programs of hers which included black musicians and entertainers. These are taken from radio and tv logs and from actual broadcasts. These are not opinion. By the way, McFarland is a reputable academic publisher. AND I HAVE NO CONNECTION WITH THE KATE SMITH FOUNDATION. I did not even know much about her until this controversy erupted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.164.64.134 (talk) 12:33, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Please sign your posts here by appending --~~~~ at the end. -- Pemilligan (talk) 14:33, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have access to Richard K. Hayes book. When you write in this article, "in the early 1940s, when the Yankees still did not allow blacks to play on their team," is that something that Hayes called out in his book, or is that a point that you are making? If it is the latter, then that is WP:SYNTHESIS and it shouldn't be included in this article.
Similarly, when you write, "Smith had black musicians and entertainers on her radio variety show more than 40 times," did Hayes draw out the number of black guest performers, or are you drawing them out from a larger list (you cite pages 30-63)[1] of all her guests? If it is the latter, then that, too, is WP:SYNTHESIS and it shouldn't be included in this article.

References

  1. ^ Hayes, Richard K. (July 1, 1995). Kate Smith: A Biography, With a Discography, Filmography and List of Stage Appearances. McFarland. pp. 30–63. ISBN 978-0786400539.
-- Pemilligan (talk) 15:28, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Pemilligan I've got the book on order from the library, and 78.26 has a copy of it now. They mention in the previous section that the book doesn't address racism at all, which isn't surprising as it's twenty years old. My feeling is that someone must be writing (as in the Plain Dealer quote from a ref noted above by 78.26 which I inserted and the IP removed for reasons I'm unclear on) discussing retroactive accusations of racism, and that those should be included as soon as we find them. --valereee (talk) 20:48, 5 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Pemilligan The copy of the book I have doesn't list each guest-star on her radio show. Saying she didn't record racist songs because she had African American guest stars is indeed SYNTH. Likewise it would also SYNTH to say she was a racist because two of her early songs are deemed highly inappropriate to current sensibilities. The songs are indeed terribly offensive. She appeared in blackface. None of this should be surprising for a theater and musical artist of the 1920s and 1930s (ask me about my record collection), they didn't think of themselves as racist, and Smith was likely on the more progressive end of racial relations for her time. But we need reliable sources directly stating these things, we can't make inferences. I have spent some more time reading the two books (and added a bit of material from them), and I would describe them as academic but sympathetic biographies. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 17:35, 13 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
In the absence of any response from the IP user, does anyone else have an objection to removing the two passages I cited as violations of WP:SYNTHESIS? -- Pemilligan (talk) 17:49, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I have removed "when the Yankees still did not allow blacks to play on their team" as discussed. -- Pemilligan (talk) 18:15, 23 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
And I've removed the rest of the paragraph for the same reason. -- Pemilligan (talk) 03:01, 17 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Statue of Kate Smith[edit]

I propose moving detail of the Statue of Kate Smith to the standalone page. ---Another Believer (Talk) 16:56, 11 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Why? The disgraceful disrespect of removing the statue erected to honor an idol should receive the maximum public shame posible. 98.165.25.234 (talk) 06:23, 24 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

please include sister and family[edit]

Please include sister and family 67.82.73.129 (talk) 06:21, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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