Talk:KRI Nagapasa (403)

Submerged Speed

Submerged speed is 21 knots? Really? Speed of the submarine is quoted as 21 knots, faster than the USN Los Angeles class fast attack sub. Most unlikely SAaphIrEblUE (talk) 14:17, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

@SAaphIrEblUE: Firstly, the claim is coming from Dispenal (Navy Infomation Center), all other sources (including IHS Janes) refer to that claim . Secondly, Nagapasa class is basicly variant of Chang Bogo-class submarine. Whereas there are sources that claims it has submerged speed is around 21-22.5 knots (source: 1 2 3 4 5). Other modern diesel-electric submarines, such as Type 212 submarine, Collins-class submarine, Lada-class submarine, and etc, are also capable of 20 knots, So, I think submerged speed of 21 knots is possible Ckfasdf (talk) 07:54, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

@Ckfasdf. Thanks for your valuable comments which I find most useful.. Your stated that the sub's speed was provided by ''Dispenal'" (Navy Infomation Center), all other sources (including IHS Janes) refer to that claim. A linked citation to that statement by Dispenal about the claimed speed.will be appreciated, as that Dispenal statement seems to be the source of all the other sources. Also I have looked into your sources (source: 1 2 3 4 5) and my comments are as follows:

1) globalsecurity.com - it did not state the source of the claimed speed

2) naval-technology.com - Clause no.1 in their Terms and Conditions reads as follows "The information on this Site has been included in good faith for general informational purposes only. The Site may contain information submitted by a third party including adverts. The information should not be relied upon for any specific purpose and no representation or warranty is given as to its accuracy or completeness."

3) militaryfactory.com - part of websites that included www.globalfirepower.com, on its disclaimer (Point 2 Liability ) it states - Material presented throughout this website is for historical and entertainment value only....".

4) cmano-db - it repeated what are already mentioned generally on the internet without an authoritative source.

5) Seaforth World Naval Review 2015) The 3rd page of the book has the following disclaimer - Note on Tables: Tables are provided to give a broad indications of fleet sizes and other key information but should be regarded only as a general guide. For example, many published sources differ significantly on the principal particulars of the ships, whilst even government information can be subjected to contradictions...

I am not saying that a submerged speed of 21 knots is impossible for a sub of the class of Type 212, Collins, Lada, Nagapasa, Chang Bogo, however it might be useful if a reliable link to the claimed speeds can be provided. Cheers. SAaphIrEblUE (talk) 15:40, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

I'm fairly confident the Indonesian Navy could measure the speed of their submarines. For that matter, there are generally reliable sources citing the speed - and no sources giving another number. Considering subs such as the Kilo-class are above that range, I don't see anything off. Juxlos (talk) 00:56, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

@SAaphIrEblUE: Unfortunately, I couldn't find official online statement from "Dispenal" on this matter. It seems "Dispenal" statement is only given to press as it was quoted by press (1 2). However, I do found statement from "Dispen Koarmada II" mentioning speed of 21 knot. Ckfasdf (talk) 03:27, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Juxlos Thanks for your feedback. It is not in dispute that any navy can measure a sub's speed - rather it is the reliability of a source that made the claimed speed was being questioned. Same applies to the Kilo-class. SAaphIrEblUE (talk) 07:34, 27 February 2020 (UTC).

Ckfasdf Thanks for your link from "Dispen Koarmada II" which, as you've said, was the source for all other sources including IHS Janes) that was based on a press release given to the media by "Dispenal". Cheers SAaphIrEblUE (talk) 07:34, 27 February 2020 (UTC)