Talk:Junker Blues

"Junco Partner"

A reference has been added stating that "Junker's Blues" was "the template for" the song "Junco Partner". I know that's what the Rough Guide (which I have - I'm sure it's generally reliable) says - but is it actually true? To my ears, there is some (not much) similarity in the melody, but the rhythm and lyrics are quite different. This article was split off from the "Junco Partner" article specifically because the thinking there was that the two songs are not closely related, but are often confused. Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:27, 27 November 2013 (UTC)

This is where the problem with people doing their own research comes in. I totally agree with you, the only connection between the songs (Aside from the titles) is that 'Blues' was the inspiration for 'Partner', which I don't really think equates to a template. Regrettably I, like you, am merely expressing an opinion. Unless we can find a suitably authoritative article backing us up, we're stuck with 'template' I'm afraid. --Deke42 (talk) 11:57, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

I've added "According to some sources...." - which at least puts some doubt in readers' minds. Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:54, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

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Two different songs are being confused here.

"Junker Blues", the Willie Hall-penned song from 1940, is a different song with very different lyrics to Dupree's self-penned "Junker's Blues" from 1958

"Junker Blues" is the one that influenced "Junco Partner", "Lawdy Miss Clawdy", and "The Fat Man". The lyrics make no reference to any specific reference to the State Farm Penitentiary at Angola, LA, mentioning only that "the boys in penitentiary doing from nine to ninety-nine". Only "Junco Partner" specifically references Angola: "Singing he had friends still in Angola / Serving from fourteen to ninety-nine".

"Junker's Blues", written by Dupree himself, is the one recorded by int al. Willy Deville and Hugh Laurie. This lyric makes no reference to any type of penal institution.

The confusion arises not simply because of the similarity of the two titles, but because both were originally recorded by Champion Jack Dupree.

Suggest article heading be amended to "Junker Blues" and/or a disambiguation page be created.

Redpaul1 (talk) 19:40, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

I may be confusing myself here, but aren't they the same tune, with different words? Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:55, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

To further add to the confusion, I think in performance Dupree himself referred to his own song by the two different names. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:40, 15 September 2017 (UTC) ... and what's more, on the original Okeh single version, he clearly pronounces the word "junko"!

Well, they're both 8-bar blues in F, but lots of songs share the same chord progression and subject matter (e.g.,"Let's Twist Again" and "Twisting The Night Away" in the I-vi-IV-V progression). And Junker Blues and Junker's Blues are written 18 years apart, by different people. I'm pretty sure that if you were able to suggest to Champion Jack that Willie Hall should get composer credit for Junker's Blues, he'd have had something to say! The 1940 number is upbeat (121bpm), and playful - "I'm the nicest boy you ever seen" - and admonitory, with ma, pa, sis and grandma all warning the narrator against using drugs. The 1958 number is slower (103bpm), and more sombre, the narrator admitting he's a junkie and that he can't wait to get stoned again. Redpaul1 (talk) 11:50, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

Agreed it is confusing to have two songs with virtually identical titles performed by the same artist - and no doubt it confused Champion Jack too! But as my reference (2) above shows, the original Okeh recording is definitely entitled Junker Blues.

I appreciate all this may seem pedantic, but my intervention here was prompted by my getting confused by the information presented on this page. I landed here from Junco Partner, but it wasn't till I googled the lyrics to "Junker's Blues" (I couldn't work out what Champion Jack was singing on Verse 2 line 1 of Junker Blues), and found myself presented with a completely different set of lyrics to what I was listening to, that I discovered that there were two different (let's at least agree to say) sets of lyrics associated with this title (these titles).
I only ascertained what was the difference by googling for "I was standing on the corner with my reefers in my hand", which led me to the discussion of the two titles in Garon's 'Blues & The Poetic Spirit' (ref 1 above).
If we can't accept that these are two different songs with two different titles, let's at least agree that the article should make clear that there are two different sets of lyrics associated with this song, with two different authors; that neither set of lyrics reference 'Angola'; and that the Willie Deville/Hugh Laurie covers are of the 1958 version.
[Also confusing is the discussion of Professor Longhair's Tipitina. I took the line "A newer recording of Professor Longhair singing his version...," referred to his version of Junker Blues. It was only on failing to find any such recording anywhere, that I came to realise that this 'newer version' was of Tipitina, not Junker Blues.] Redpaul1 (talk) 11:50, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

Personally, I'd be happy for you to make the changes to this article that you think are necessary, and we can make any further tweaks if they are required. I suspect we may be going down the road of original research rather than relying on so-called reliable sources, but I'd have no problem with making this article more correct and accurate than it is. Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:11, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

OK, I've given it my best shot. I've tried to reference everything as best I can, taking heed of your warnings over original research. I'd be grateful (never having done anything so extensive before) if you'd give it the once-over (also, don't know how to change the article title - if you think it necessary), but in any case, thanks! Redpaul1 (talk) 18:33, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

Hi Redpaul1. It's very easy to move an article title - just use the "Move" tab at the top. I've done it now anyway. I'm wondering if we could use the image, such as the one here, to illustrate the article? I guess we could also add a song infobox? Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:52, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

I'm still confused. The 1940 Dupree song has the following lyrics:

They call, they call me a junker/ Cause I'm loaded all the time/ I don't use no reefer, I'll be knocked out with that angel wine/ Six months, six months ain't no sentence/ And one year ain't no time/ They got boys in penitentiary doing from nine to ninety-nine/ I was standing, I was standing on the corner/ With my reefers in my hand/ Up stepped Upstairs the sergeant took my reefers out of my hand/ My brother, my brother used a needle / and my sister sniffed cocaine/ I don't use no junk, I'm the nicest boy you ever seen/ My mother, my mother she told me/ and my father told me too/ That that junk is a bad habit, why don't you leave it too?/ My sister she even told me/ And my grandma told me too/ That using junk partner was going to be the death of you

Dupree's later recording has the following:

All right... I'm sick as I can be.../ Some people call me a junker, cause I'm loaded all the time/ I just feel happy and I feel good all the time/ Some people say I use a needle, and some say I slip cocaine/ But that's the best old feelin' that I ever need/ Say goodbye, goodbye to whiskey/ Lord and so long to gin/ I just want my reefer, I just want to feel high again/ Oh yes I'm a junker/ I feel all right/ Some people, some people crave for chicken/ And some crave for a house steak/ But when I get loaded lord I don't want, want my milk and cake/ Oh yeah that's what I want now.../ They call me a junker.../ Cause I'm loaded all the time.../ But that ain't nothin that I feel good all the time...

I'm not sure that simply referring to the second recording as "focus[ing] on the allure of drugs" really covers the points of difference between the two. Both versions are concerned with drug use. Would it not be better and clearer to put a sample of the text of both versions in the article, to point out the difference? Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:02, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

With all due respect, I think that was "upstepped", not "upstairs"! Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:52, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

You're right - I just copied and pasted it from another site. Oops.... Ghmyrtle (talk) 06:59, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

Poor old Champ. It's no wonder he's confused. And all the rest of us too.Martinevans123 (talk) 21:06, 16 September 2017 (UTC) p.s. guitar by Paul Kossoff, harmonica by Duster Bennett

References

I see that Martinevans123 has already put in a songbox. I think that's very helpful. TY.

Me, actually.... Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:03, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

As to Ghmyrtle's suggestion: Put in a sample of the two texts? By all means! I didn't think that was allowed (original research), which is why I tried to summmarise the two texts. Incidentally, in Verse 3 of Junker's Blues, the line is "But when I get loaded, Lord, I want, want my milk & cake./ (Oh yeah that's what I want now.)" I take 'milk & cake' to mean heroin and cocaine (I'm taking the texts in the Paul Garon book to be definitive). So in the Willie Hall version, he's denying he's a junker, even though people call him so; it's only that he's happy all the time on wine (and as it turns out, on spliffs also). His brother and sister, on the other hand _are_ junkies. In the Dupree version, it's quite clear (to me at least; YMMV, of course) that he _is_ a junkie, and that he craves the feelings hard drugs give him (which is what I meant by 'allure' - I should have specified that more clearly "the allure of hard drugs"). (incidentally, I don't know how to reply to you both, except by editing my OP. Is that correct or is there a more efficient means of responding?) Redpaul1 (talk) 12:59, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

I've corrected both the text samples, above. I'll take a look at clarifying the text references in the article as well. Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:03, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

I don't want to add this as a link, but editors will be interested in this video, of Dupree performing with King Curtis. Different lyrics again, and a much slower treatment. Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:02, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

Ah, the mighty King Curtis, what a treat. A personal favourite. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:23, 22 September 2017 (UTC) p.s. If you ask User:Fram, you've already encouraged an infringement of copyright by posting that link here. You should probably resign. (it's the opening track on King Curtis & Champion Jack Dupree ‎– Blues At Montreux: Atlantic ‎– SD 1637 (1973), if anyone is interested.