Talk:José Rizal/Archive 2

Did Rizal die a catholic?

Actually yes i really care but what made me do this discussion is that i want to be clarified on the matter claiming that Rizal indeed died a catholic, if so why did the catholic priest had to snatch away in absolute secrecy the body of Rizal after execution to be burried at the Paco cemetery? (refer to case unclosed program aired November 26, 2009 hosted by Mr. Arnold Clavio)

As per the claim of Ms. Barbara Gonzales, the grand daughter of Rizal, that Rizal really was a martyr and a hero because he really represented the filipino people in good form and substance but what about the real purpose of Rizal of making the Philippines a province of Spain and to be represented in the Spanish cortez? At this juncture, Rizal had emphasize being a representative of the Illustrados and not of the marginalized filipino people during that time.

More on Rizal's being a catholic devotee, was there any record of him being accepted back into the catholic fold since it was for a fact that he was excommunicated by the catholic church and being as such it means not receiving the holy communion nor to be allowed to hear the mass and depriving him of the right to be burried in a catholic cemetery. --Leo S. Dagaerag (talk) 04:29, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Leitmeritz

In the Noli_Me_Tangere_(novel)#Reaction_and_legacy, there is a reference to Leitmeritz -- is this referring to Ferdinand Blumentritt? --达伟 (talk) 21:22, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

National hero?

The text: He is considered the Philippines' national hero is unsourced and so a tag has been placed. Please see WP:IRS. Please do not remove this tag unless a reliable source is cited. Qwerta369 (talk) 10:27, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

The Triumph of Science over Death

I have removed the following: "He made the Triumph of science over death and give the sculpture to Ferdinand Blumentritt. He made this sculpture for the sake of Filipino women. He gave this sculpture to Blumentritt to show how Filipino women were abused by the Spaniards." which is comically false. I have created a new section and placed both the picture of the sculpture and its real symbolism there. I have also linked to its original page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by RafaelMinuesa (talk • contribs) 05:15, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Rajah of Tondo as an ancestor of Rizal

I have removed that false statement. Apart from the fact that the author Austin Craig is not a recognized expert on the matter, he NEVER mentions Lakandula, Rajah of Tondo as an ancestor.

I have checked his book "Lineage, Life, and Labors of Jose Rizal, Philippine Patriot" at project Gutenberg, and nowhere in the book does he say such a thing. See the full text of his book here: http://www.fullbooks.com/Lineage-Life-and-Labors-of-Jose-Rizal1.html

However, if you have references that prove that he actually mentioned Lakandula as an ancestor, please include them in the article. Otherwise, please stop changing the article. Thank you --RafaelMinuesa (talk) 02:52, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

The reference of the actual descent of Jose Rizal in Austin Craig's is being questioned on grounds that it does not appear in a reprinted version as published in the Guttenberg freebies. As a descendant of Lakan Dula, of which all of the Filipinos bearing the surname Lacandola can lay claim to, I was interested in this. I had seen an original volume in hard cover published by the Philippine Education Co. so a reader of a reprinted version cannot claim absolute certainty on the issue. If such a reader who has not seen the original and calumniates Austin Craig as 'not a recognized expert on the matter, then who is? Certainly not this individual. Umbriago. 12 Jan. 2011. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.72.225.157 (talk) 19:31, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Again, if you have references that prove that Austin Craig actually mentioned Lakandula as an ancestor, please share them.

The problem here is that NONE of the recognized experts on the subject, EVER mentions Lakandula as an ancestor of Rizal.

--RafaelMinuesa (talk) 07:16, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

Surname Chua

Page Chinese Filipino says "surnamed Chua before his late Hispanic surname." Is this correct? Hongthay (talk) 14:55, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I don't have time to dig too deep on this right now, but you might look at the entries which come up as Previewable using this google books search. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 01:33, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

More citations

At its present state, this article won't be good enough for WP:OTD, and since Rizal's 150th birth anniversary is coming, it'll be nice to spruce this up with references so that this can be good enough to be displayed at the Main Page. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 16:06, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Myths about Rizal and the University of Santo Tomas

Here are some excerpts from the study of former UST archivist Fr. Fidel Villarroel

Myth: Rizal complained about his grades in UST and was discriminated and treated shabbily by the Dominicans.

Fact: 1. Rizal entered the UST in 1877, enrolling in the Pre-Law Course, which was made up of philosophical subjects. The course was commonly called metaphysics. He passed the course brilliantly with the highest grades in spite of his initial indifference to philosophy and his youthful distractions through the year. Then he opted for the career of medicine. And in 1878-1879 he took simultaneously the Pre-Medical Course and the First Year of Medicine; this was against the rules, but Rizal was favored with a dispensation. The Pre-Medicine Course was also called Ampliacion, because the student, having taken already Physics, Chemistry and Natural History in the high school, now took an advanced course on the same subjects (Rizal did not take in Santo Tomas the “class of physics” described in El Fili but rather in Ateneo).

In his courses of medicine, Rizal was a good student, above-average, though not excellent; but none of his classmates were excellent either. Summing up, in the 21 subjects taken in UST, Rizal obtained one aprobado (passing grade), eight bueno (good), six notable (very good) and six sobresaliente (excellent). Majority of students in Rizal’s time, or in any time, would have been satisfied with the above grades. It is possible that Rizal was not, but it is a fact that he never complained about his grades, there is not a single word in his works showing displeasure at the unfairness of UST.

Yet many of his biographers are angry, unreasonably angry (including anti-ust pexers?) at the treatment given to the national hero by his alma mater. How could Rizal, after a perfect record of “Excellent” in the high school (Ateneo) now receive such “low” grades at UST? The critics had to look for an explanation, and since they did not find fault in Rizal, then they had to blame the Dominicans and UST. And from Retana to Austin Craig, from Frank Lauback to Austin Coates and to quite a long line of Filipino biographers (with some exceptions), we only hear the same repeated lamentation that every school child must now learn in the textbooks: that Rizal was “below his usual standards”, and for the extremely serious charge that the “Dominican professors were hostile to him” and “the Filipino students were racially discriminated” (Zaide), and that there was “excessive harping on the alleged intellectual superiority of the Spanish (because he was white) to the Filipino, a brown man, and Indio (JM Hernandez), and so on. An objective historian must squarely face and honestly answer these grave statements, which sound like accusations.

Was Rizal “far below his usual standards”? What standards, in the first place? If by usual standards we mean the grades of his Ateneo high school studies, the comparison is unfair. Nobody places elementary or high school standards against college or University standards. They belong to different levels. At Ateneo municipal, Rizal was excellent, though not the only excellent student. At the UST, none of his classmates ever got near to keeping a straight record of Excellent. And this was because Medicine was a different kind of stuff altogether.

Therefore, if we are to arrive at a just appreciation of Rizal’s performance at the UST, we should compare, not his grades in the high school with those in the university, but Rizal’s grades in Medicine against those of his classmates. In the first year of medicine, Rizal’s class was made up of 24 students, but due to academic failures, seventeen of them were left by the roadside before they reached the fourth year, when only seven took the final examinations. And in this fourth (and for Rizal last) year, he landed in second place behind Cornelio Mapa. A persecuted Rizal would have probably ended by the same roadside as the seventeen “debarred” classmates, or would have never boasted of being second when he left for Spain in 1882.

2. It can hardy be said that Rizal was discriminated and treated shabbily by the Dominicans since he was granted the rare privilege of studying simultaneously in the Preparatory Course of Medicine and the First Year of Medicine.

Records likewise show that six Spaniards were enrolled with Rizal in the first year of Medicine, of whom three were Peninsular and three Philippine-born. If the criticism of some biographers were true, these six students would have been favored by the friars. Yet at the end of the fourth year there remained only one Philippine-born Spaniard, Jose Resurreccion y Padilla, who managed to get only a poor passing grade (aprobado), last among successful students, and who in the following year received a crushing suspenso. It would be unkind to rejoice over failures, whether of Spanish or of Filipinos, but the biographers of Rizal will not be convincing unless they prove with valid documents the existence of “racial discrimination” in UST in the 19th century when it came to academic grades.

3. Rizal’s inclinations and abilities must be taken into account. While he was undoubtedly inclined to, and remarkably fitted for, the arts and letters, he was not much attracted to Medicine. “Perhaps – says Leon Ma. Guerrero – Medicine was not his real vocation”. Medicine was a convenient career taken up in consideration of the poor health of Rizal’s mother, whom he wanted to help, and eventually helped as a physician.

4. When Rizal transferred to Spain and continued his studies at the University of Madrid, he showed there similar characteristics. He was sobresaliente in the humanistic studies (literature, languages, history), while in Medicine he fared worse than at the University of Santo Tomas. Ye no historian or biographer has ever complained about his poor performance in Madrid or hinted that Rizal was discriminated against in that Central University.

5. Rizal had Dominican friends in the persons of Fr. Evaristo Arias and Fr. Joaquin Fonseca. It was while studying at UST that Rizal obtained public recognition as a poet. It was the Dominican, Fr. Arias who helped him cultivate his craft in poetry. During his Thomasian years, Rizal composed the best poems of his pre-European period, one of them being A la Juventud Filipina, winner of the first prize in the contest organized by the Liceo Artistico-Literario in 1879. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.200.249.51 (talk) 03:16, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

--jarcills (talk) 11:20, 06 May 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.200.249.51 (talk)

Incorrect photo of Rizal memorial in Paco Park

The Photo of Rizal's tomb in Paco Park is incorrect. The picture shown is actually the memorial of the three martyred priests, Gomez, Burgos, and Zamora. I replaced the incorrect photo with a photo taken by me of the Rizal Memorial in Paco Park. Matikas 0805 (talk) 18:40, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Sexual Preference Controversy

I'm moving the following here for discussion. It was inserted in the article as a subsection of Aftermath with the heading Sexual Preference Controversy.

Some Rizal experts say that Rizal was probably gay, even if he is considered as a womanizer by many drawings of male reproductive was seen in his notes when he's a doctor of the eye. There was also his dream about Ferdinand Blumentritt being in his house in Calamba and he was eating [1]. And then Rizal woke up, and when he woke up he was shaking and he was perspiring. He said he was wet. Psychiatrists who read it said it was a “wet dream."

This is given undue weight as presented here, I think.

The cited source is interesting, and some material supported by that source it may merit inclusion in the article. The material quoted above, though, IMHO, goes too far in lifting one small snippet out of context in support of inserted assertions given undue weight. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 00:47, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

File:Tallest Rizal Monument.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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Over emphasized relationship with Leonor Rivera

In the "Women in the life of Rizal", I cannot believe how most of you here got too carried away with Rizal and Rivera's "romance". Did you guys not know that he married/suppose to marry Josephine Bracken? Seriously, this article let alone this section barely mentions anything about her other than her name then all of a sudden at the aftermath section she pops out of nowhere. That section doesn't even mention her being married/fiance of Jose Rizal it just talks about what she did after he got executed. But why was she relevant enough to have her own sub-section in the Aftermath section? No one stated anything. Bleubeatle (talk) 10:49, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Change of section title to "Exile in Dapitan" and sub sections of people.

(moved from Briarfallen's talk page) Hi, I'd just like to talk to you about your edit here and its edit summary. What if we renamed it as "Life in exile and marriage" instead? I don't think that adding sub-sections for people like Josephine and Polavieja and Blanco are necessary. Articles like Ferdinand Marcos, Napoleon Bonaparte or any articles here on Wikipedia that is about a person don't have those. Some of them even have "Personal life" sections talking about their marriage and children.119.224.27.62 (talk) 02:18, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Rizal was not married to Josephine when he was in Dapitan, they lived together, so 'marriage' in the section title is inaccurate. Rizal also went to self-exile in Hong Kong if you read his biography. Just 'Life in exile' in the title is ambiguous. I was just dividing the long section of his 'Exile in Dapitan' dividing it into subsections because it is too long. That is what you do when have a long section per Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Layout, and I am just worried about readability. You don't seem to be worried about readability. There is nothing wrong with naming a subsection for a person per WP:MOSHEAD, that subsection is not about who that person is, but their relation to Rizal at that period of his life. Do not compare this article to other person's article, as Rizal's life is different from theirs.

Then why did you add Josephine's name as a sub section for "Exile in Dapitan" then? It doesn't make sense. And yes I am worried about the readability as you can see that's why I messaged you..lol. Btw I am using those articles as an example because Jose Rizal's article has to comply with Wikipedia's standards just like these articles that I presented to you. Rizal's life may be different from theirs but we gotta follow Wikipedia's standards.119.224.27.62 (talk) 06:15, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

What? I said there is no rule preventing anyone from naming a section or subsection with a person's name. There is nothing wrong with Josephine's name on the subsection as there is no rule stating that you can't, it is not a separate article. Wikipedia prefers you break up long text or sections (like Exile in Dapitan) into subsections, and naming them separately. Please read Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Layout under Body Sections. We follow Wikipedia's standard by following Wikipedia's rules, not by following what others are doing. What if they are wrong as well? Briarfallen (talk) 12:11, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Fine, I'm going to ask the users at the Wikiproject Biography to review this and see what else needs to be changed. 119.224.27.62 (talk) 00:56, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

I did not add the subsection Pio Valenzuela, I moved it from a lower section because it happened in Dapitan before Rizal and his family left the town. If you think Valenzuela is not an important person, then you don't know the life of Rizal. The readability of the article is awful as the chronology of his life is not followed, a result of having too many chefs in the kitchen.Briarfallen (talk) 03:26, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Hmm well if you want to make the article chronological then what if we re-arrange it like Napoleon's article? If you read that article you will notice it has sections that named and arranged in chronological orders. 119.224.27.62 (talk) 06:15, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

We should continue this discussion in the talk page of Jose Rizal (talk). Briarfallen (talk) 12:11, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Freemasonic Fraud

It has always been the objective of the freemasonic order (which Rizal was of) to oust the Catholic Church. How could such a figure be called a hero in a predominately Catholic Country?

A sad testimony to the intelligence of the Filippino today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.190.233.62 (talk) 11:30, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

A sad testimony to your "intelligence", indeed ... Greetings, Klaus Schneider--77.0.35.12 (talk) 15:18, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Species Named After Jose Rizal

Exhaustive list of exactly three items, one of which is already discussed in more detail in this article. QVVERTYVS (hm?) 12:10, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

I think it would be okay to merge this. I just need more sources to explain more the three species.Markimatix (talk) 12:26, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned references in José Rizal

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of José Rizal's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "gma":

• From National symbols of the Philippines: Ralph Angelo Ty (24 April 2012). "'Rizal is not our official national hero' and other facts about PHL's national symbols". GMA News. Retrieved 20 February 2013.
• From Philippines: "Bishops threaten civil disobedience over RH bill". GMA News. 2010-09-29. Retrieved 2010-10-16.
• From Bataan Day: "DOLE reminds employers on pay guidelines for Holy Week holidays". GMA News and Public Affairs. April 4, 2009. {{cite web}}: External link in |publisher= (help)

Reference named "ambeth":

• From Malacañang Palace: Ocampo, Ambeth (1995). "Inside Malacañang". Bonifacio's Bolo. Pasig City: Anvil Publishing Inc. p. 122. ISBN 971-27-0418-1.
• From Lupang Hinirang: Ocampo, Ambeth R. (May 24, 2005). "The right way to sing the National Anthem" (Document). Philippines Daily Inquirer. {{cite document}}: Unknown parameter |archivedate= ignored (help); Unknown parameter |archiveurl= ignored (help); Unknown parameter |url= ignored (help) (archived from the original on 26 May 2005)
• From Universidad de San Ignacio: "Royal and Pontifical". Inquirer.net. Retrieved on 2012-05-01.
• From National symbols of the Philippines: Ambeth Ocampo (2009-03-03). "Looking Back: What is 'Philippine' or 'national'?". Philippine Daily Inquirer. Retrieved 2009-03-10.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 07:43, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 August 2014

124.104.138.203 (talk) 09:30, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Not done: as you have not requested a change.
If you want to suggest a change, please request this in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
Please also cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to any article. - Arjayay (talk) 18:48, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Filipino-Chinese elitism

Seriously? How come Josse Rizal Chinese connection is being highlighted in the article while none of his other ethnic heritage is being mentioned? A person who does not know Rizal and happen to read this wiki article will get the impression that Rizal is actually a Chinese immigrant of the philippines! Rizal has a distant Spanish, Japanese ancestry too ,and more importantly, direct NATIVE (indio) filipino ancestry. The ancestry to which he vocally and strongly wants to associate himself is INDIO. I've been hearing a lot of these vague associations from the Filipino-Chinese circles that seems to give out an impression that without the Chinese, Filipinos cannot achieve anything. I believe they are pushin this propaganda in the Wiki page where articles need to be impartial and intellectually honest. They talk and discussed an inaccurate portrayal of the philippine history. They claim that the Chinese were the middlemen of the Spaniards to the native filipinos which is entirely FALSE. The chinese during the spanish era were treated as second class citizens known as "indio chino", are treated even lower than a rural indio. which is historically evident in the several events of massacre and chinese genocide in the parian (a part of area in manila where a huge chunk of chinese population settled during the spanish colonial era). both the spaniards and the indios are suspicious of them. in fact, a chino only becomes accepted when they convert to catholicism, marry indio women and assimilate to the general culture of the population. this is exactly what jose rizal's father did. however, the fact that even jose rizal was racist towards the chinese and vocally disassociates himself from the chinese in his journals already gives you an impression on how chinese were viewed during the spanish era of the philippines.

in short, it is unfair for the filipino-chinese (towards the FILIPINOS) to take credit for jose rizal's accomplishments simply because his father was chinese. let us remind ourselves that the person who educated Rizal was his mother who is filipina while his chinese father was described by rizal as a very distant guardian.

to the editors: if you have to provide rizal's chinese heritage, please add rizal's other heritage as well to make sure that we dont give out a wrong impression to foreigners who dont know rizal yet.

Expunging the myth that the Chinese are the middlemen between the Spaniards and the native Filipinos:

Note: Philippines is not Indonesia. Adding note to provide insight of the social landscape in 17th-19th century Philippines.

Social pyramid in the Philippines:

"To Summarize, the social pyramid, based on social class had: the españoles at the top, with the peninsulars over the insulars or "Filipinos"; then followed the mestizos, with mestizos-españoles over the mestizos-chinos or mestizos de sangleyes and mestizos indios; then the indios or native Malays who are Christian, urban and Hispanicized; then on the lowest rung of society, were the CHINOS and the non-Christian indios or salvajes.

Although social class may have been largely determined by race, there were opportunities for upward mobility. A salvaje or a Chinese, for example, could move up the social ladder, despite its racial origin, by three routes: by settling in a town within reach and influence of Spanish culture and urbanization; by converting to Roman Catholicism, which was guaranteed to raise social status; and lastly, the easiest upward route used especially by the Chinese, by intermarrying. Marrying an indio or a Spaniard guaranteed the offspring a Mestizo status, which stopped short of español level. Becoming full-Spanish biologically or by decree was simply impossible. This was an impregnable and static class.

Economic prosperity could also bestow social status in terms of acquiring education and Hispanization, but money could never buy limpieza de sangre. Thus peninsulars could look down their long Castilian noses at the prosperous indio, Chinese, or mestizo merchants who are dismissed disdainfully as bestias cargadas de oros (beasts laden with gold), or perras mercantiles (merchant dogs). Aside from the physical signs of race, status was further determined by unseen interior qualities, like education, breeding and culture, all lumped under the rubric of urbanidad (i.e. Hispanization).

This social structure in the colonial Philippines largely dictated by race was questioned by insulares, indios, and mestizos in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, creating and formenting a racial tension from which we can trace the origins of Philippine nationalism. The crucial point is that people born and raised in the Philippines whether of Spanish, indio, Chinese or mixed-blood began to see themselves as hijos del país (Sons of the Country) who would not accept social classifications based on race, particularly limpieza de sangre or the purity of blood (i.e. Spanish blood)."

--Source: Ocampo, Ambeth R. Bones of contention. --New ed. --Mandaluyong City: Anvil Pub., c2014. Page 103-105

to break it down, the social order was:

1.

  a. Peninsulares - Pure Spaniards born in Europe 
  b. Insulares - Pure Spaniards born and grew up in the philippines  (also known as Filipinos or Criollos)

2. mestizo espanol - the default mestizo. Mixed Spanish/European and native

3.

 a. Mestizo chino/Mestizo de Sangleyes - (Mixed Chinese and native, also applicable to mixed Japanese and native as it happens in some occasions)
 b. Mestizo indio - mixed native indigenous and native american indians (indio mexicans also settled and intermarried here)

4. Indio natural - The general population-- urbane indios; Catholic and hispanicized.

5.

a. salvajes - unconverted natives, primitive in the eyes of indios, mestizos, and spanish alike. as the negritos, tribal people from the cordilleras, and moros in mindanao. 
b. indio de sangley - unconverted chinese and japanese pekpek or merchants, does not blend in the general hispanicized indio population. usually settling in the parian.

What is

The article mentions that Rizal had to retract beliefs critical of Roman Catholicism and that his religion was Roman Catholic/Rizalfian. But either there is no explanation of his beliefs or they are not well signposted in the article. Slimy asparagus (talk) 10:40, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 April 2016

Please promote impartiality when creating an article about Jose Rizal's lineage. Jose did not trace himself to people in China, historians did, as it should. However, the article does seem to give out a wrong implication/impression that Jose Rizal is a Chinese immigrant of the Philippines which is not true. This is because none of his maternal ancestry, the one Rizal holds value the most, is put in the article. Please see 'Filipino-Chinese elitism' in the Talk section as to why there is a need for revision on this. 58.71.48.151 (talk) 19:35, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Terra ^❤ 02:58, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format.  ^B E _C K ^Y _S A ^{Y L} E _S  07:54, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Okay please change this article from:

(Under Early life, first paragraph) Both their families had adopted the additional surnames of Rizal and Realonda in 1849, after Governor General Narciso Clavería y Zaldúa decreed the adoption of Spanish surnames among the Filipinos for census purposes (though they already had Spanish names). José traced his patrilineal lineage back to Fujian in China through Lam Co, a Chinese immigrant who came to the Philippines in the late 17th century and was later baptized as a Christian and renamed Domingo.[12][13][note 1]"

To this:

"Like many Filipino families, the Rizals were of mixed racial origin. His father's family began in the Philippines from a Chinese merchant named Lam-Co. Lam-Co immigrated to Manila from Amoy, China (now Xiamen) to possibly escape the Manchu invasion and finally decided to stay in the islands as a farmer. In 1697, to escape the bitter anti-Chinese prejudice which then existed in the Philippines; he later converted to Catholicism, changed his name to Domingo Mercado and married a daughter of a native. On his mother's side Rizal had Spanish, Chinese, and native blood, with even a line of Japanese ancestry. His mother's lineage can be traced to the affluent Spanish mestizo families in Laguna, Cavite and Pangasinan; and to a deported Spanish nobleman named Marquis de Cañete."

sources: --Coates, A. 1968. Rizal, Philippine Nationalist and Martyr, 1968, Oxford University Press. Page 7

--The Project Gutenberg EBook of Lineage, Life and Labors of Jose Rizal: Philippine Patriot, by Austin Craig

-- (3) Delos Reyes, Tomas and Schaerpf, Frederick (1983). Ilocos Review Vol.15

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.71.48.151 (talk) 22:38, 19 June 2016 (UTC)

 Done: Except for the last sentence in the first part above, which I changed slightly, that partial paragraph was kept in the article. The replacement part above also had to be a little altered to coincide with the reference source I chose to use, the Gutenberg source.  Wikipedian Sign Language Paine  14:26, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

Hi.Here are some that I have dug, with sources at the end of citations:

sorry in advance as it it lengthy. basically, we only need to also provide rizal's heritage on the maternal side moren than just the father's side. her mother more influence on rizal in so many ways more than his father. it is only appropriate to show that under the 'Early life' section.

"Like many Filipino families, the Rizals were of mixed racial origin. In the direct male line their earliest known ancestor was a Chinese who migrated to the Philippines from the Fukien City of Changchow around 1690 and became a Christian, marrying a well-to-do Chinese Christian girl of Manila. Subsequent generations, resident at Binan, a Laguna town some miles north of Calamba, married Chinese mestizas - persons of mixed Filipino and Chinese ancestry. On his mother's side Rizal had Spanish, Chinese, and Filipino blood, with even a line of Japanese ancestry. The Spanish authorities, with a European taste for legal niceties which did not always equate with Philippine actuality, described the Rizals as a Chinese mestizo family, but in fact in 1861 they were completely Filipino, and had been for a hundred years or more."

--Coates, A. 1968. Rizal, Philippine Nationalist and Martyr, 1968, Oxford University Press. Page 7.

"First we turn out attention to Teodora Alonso, the mother, who undoubtedly was the most striking personality in the family circle, owing to her intelligence, her culture and her disposition. A well-read person, she knew how to appreciate literature, corrected her son's verses and guided him early in his study of rhetoric; she had a good knowledge of mathematics. Furthermore, she was able, at times, to foretell future events, as we shall see. Educated in College of Santa Rosa, run by the Sisters of Charity, she was a devout Catholic, and believed in the intercession of saints in earthly happenings, as we have seen when she made the promise to the Virgin of Antipolo. She took great efforts to imbue her sons with the maxims of Christian morality. Her father (not her uncle, as stated by some biographers) was a representative to the Cortes for the Philippines, for the Islands had been represented there for short periods: 1810-1813; 1813-1814; 1820-1822; 1822-1823 and 1834-1837. This prominent Filipino, grandfather of Rizal, was the teacher of Teodora. His brother had been educated in Europe and spoke four languages, beside Tagalog. He was a Knight of the Order of Isabel la Catolica. It is not surprising that, with the personal qualities that adorned Teodora, her authority and prominence, together with a certain unique charm, she had a strong influence over the family."

--Fernandez, JB. 1980. Jose Rizal: Filipino Doctor and Patriot. Manuel Morato, Quezon City. Page 4-5.

• • • it is important to note that only Spaniards or "Filipino" (Pure Spaniards born and raised in the Philippines) can represent in the Spanish cortes.

"Brigida Ochoa Quintos is the daughter of Manuel Quintos from Pangasinan, a prominent lawyer who graduated from the University of Sto. Tomas, and Regina Ochoa. The Ochoas are from Cavite and though without much documentation, is said to be from a rich clan whose lineage goes back to a certain Mariquita Ochoa that became a common-law wife of a deported Spanish nobleman named Marquis de Cañete. Marquiz was denied marriage to Mariquita because of his political indifference with the State church. She is the childhood sweetheart of Lorenzo Alberto. The Quintos was later changed (Claveria Decree of 1849) to Realonda. She is the mother of Teodora thus Teodora Alonso y Realonda.

Hence, Don Lorenzo, after all named Teodora carrying his surname which is Alonso. I use to think that Alonso was his middle name and in order to hide from public scrutiny he used this instead of his last name which is Alberto. The only thing is that on September 13, 1814, a certain Lorenzo Alberto, son of Cipriano and Florentina, Spanish mestizos of Biñan, province of Laguna married a Paula Florentino from Vigan (3). And so the story goes as written by Mr. Ocampo."

-- http://www.heritage.org.ph/news.php?id=45

-- (3) Delos Reyes, Tomas and Schaerpf, Frederick (1983). Ilocos Review Vol.15

>>also, you can check teodora alonso's geneological history in this link:

https://www.geni.com/people/Teodora-de-Quintos-Alonso/6000000006169591114

while her pictures does not show much due to age. her brothers still retained spanish mestizo features:

https://www.geni.com/people/Jose-de-Quintos-Alonzo/6000000017064383608 http://image.slidesharecdn.com/chapter1aheroisborn1861-140703175820-phpapp01/95/hero-is-born-chapter-1-1861-35-638.jpg?cb=1404410417

>>Jose Rizal's father was not 100% Chinese either. While he is mostly racially Chinese, he is a mixed chinese and native (and therefore belonging to the chinese mestizo class) as indicated in his geneological history. He grew up and was educated like any typical Filipino at that time - Hispanicized and Catholic.

"His father's family began in the Philippines with a Chinaman named Lam co who came from the Amoy district to Manila possibly because of the political trouble which followed the conquest of his country by the Manchu invaders. It was in 1697 that this ancestor whose Christian name was Domingo was baptized in the Parian church of San Gabriel.

At first a merchant, he finally made up his mind to stay in these Islands, and turned farmer to escape the bitter anti Chinese prejudice which then existed in Manila. Rather late in life he married the daughter of a countryman - who was a dealer in rice and moved into La Laguna province to become a tenant on the Dominican Friars' estate at Biñan. His son, Francisco Mercado y Chinco, apparently owed his surname to the Chinese custom of looking to the appropriateness of the meaning. Sangley, the name thruout all the Philippines for Chinamen signifies "travelling trader" and in the shop Spanish of the Islands "mercado" was used for trader. So Lamco evidently intended that his descendants should stop travelling but not cease being traders.

Francisco Mercado was a name held in high honor in La Laguna for it had belonged to a famuous sea captain who had been given the encomienda of Bay for his services and had there won the regard of those who paid tribute to him by his fairness and interest in their welfare.

Francisco's son was Captain Juan Mercado y Monica and he took advantage of his position to expunge from the municipal records the designation "Chinese mestizo" after the names of himself and family. Thus he saved the higher fees and taxes which Chinese mestizos then were compelled to pay. The Captain died when his youngest son, Francisco Engracio Mercado y Alexandra, was only nine years old. An unmarried sister, Potenciana, twenty years older than he, looked after the boy and sent him to the Latin school. Some years later the husband of their sister Petrona died and they moved to the neighboring hacienda of Kalamba, also belonging to the Dominican order, to help the widow with her farm.

The landlords recognized the industry of the young farmer and kept increasing his hand until he became one of the most prosperous of their tenants. In 1847 his sister Potenciana died and the following year Francisco married."

--The Project Gutenberg EBook of Lineage, Life and Labors of Jose Rizal: Philippine Patriot, by Austin Craig

Jose Rizal grew up and was educated LIKE ANY TYPICAL FILIPINO AT THAT TIME - Hispanicized and Catholic? "You beg for Hispanization, and do not pale with shame when they deny it you! ....... Spanish willnever be the general language of the country, the people will never talk it, because the conceptions of their brains and the feelings of their hearts cannot be expressed in that language — each people has its own tongue, as it has its own way of thinking! What are you going to do with Castilian, the few of you who will speak it?” - Jose Rizal,El Filibusterismo — Preceding unsigned comment added by BuhayPinoy (talk • contribs) 03:39, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

The article requires revision by a serious scholar

The article is full of mistakes. There are sentences which make no sense, due to poor edit, there are inconsistencies in describing the course of events with hopping to and fro with years and topics instead of a linear chronological presentation, usual for an encyclopaedic entry, there are unsubstantiated wild claims and simple falsities like the claim that "Noli me tangere" is Spanish.

I believe a person who is important in the Filipino state and national identity building deserves better that that. This is not a job for some of the numerous well intended but obviously incapable high school and/or university students. A serious cholar should edit the article and it should then be protected so that only experienced editors can work on it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.245.80.137 (talk) 20:04, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

Why ecumenism?

In the Rizal's letter there is no word about Christ, Christianity and Christian unity. If you want to call the opinion of Rizal, it is deism, not ecumenism.

Can anyone help me to find the Spanish original of the letter? МетаСкептик12 (talk) 11:26, 18 May 2016 (UTC)

Birth name

According to his baptismal register, he was born José Rizal Mercado y Realonda. But later in his life, his middle name, Protacio, and the first part of his maternal family name, Alonso, were added. 125.212.122.158 (talk) 14:30, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

And yet, according to the reference source, his birth certificate had his name as José Protasio Rizal Mercado (y) Alonso, which has been noted in the information box.  Wikipedian Sign Language Paine  11:57, 1 July 2016 (UTC)

References

Featured article on the Bikol Central Wikipedia?

The article is currently listed as "Napiling artikulo" on their main page. 27.115.113.102 (talk) 02:43, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 March 2017

Marina.l.pratt (talk) 03:27, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

change "(literally Spanish for 'touch me not' ..." to "(literally Latin for "touch me not" ..." Marina.l.pratt (talk) 03:27, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Done Spanish seems incorrect. Gulumeemee (talk) 07:52, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 July 2017

Please revert vandalism:

> after an anti-dd revolution, inspired in part by his writings

-> after an anti-colonial revolution, inspired in part by his writings 203.215.120.201 (talk) 16:29, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Done Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 16:39, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

The Page is not linking to his literary works

Hi All, has anyone noticed that when you link his literary works (even if it's on Wikipedia), do not show up in the actual article? Carriedelvalle23 (talk) 23:38, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 September 2017

Additional essay: El Amor Patrio. It is his first published essay and a proof that he is against revolution/violence in attaining independence. 103.38.151.4 (talk) 05:03, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — nihlus kryik  (talk) 05:08, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Religious views of José Rizal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Currently, Religious views of José Rizal is written like a personal reflection, or opinion essay. I think religious views of José Rizal can covered in the main article appropriately. —usernamekiran(talk) 05:05, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose, but propose page be wikified - I posit there's enough material on the topic of the Religious views of José Rizal, and that this aspect of Rizal's life, the subject of debate and discussion for a century, to merit an article. I agree that the article is poorly written, but I suggest that it be rewritten to comply with Wikipedia standards, rather than deleted. - Alternativity (talk) 07:28, 4 April 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose. I dare say there is enough source material for a separate article on the Rizal's religious views so what is needed is just to improve the article instead of merging it. —seav (talk) 03:42, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:28, 2 April 2019 (UTC)