Talk:John Newman (Australian politician)

First Australian politician to be assassinated

Donald Mackay was not a politician at the time of his death, so his death should not be in the same category as Newman's. As far as I know, Newman was the first serving politician to be killed. Peter Kocan attempted to kill Arthur Calwell, but only succeeded in wounding him. JackofOz 06:06, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

This is a difficult one. I think Newman is generally considered to be the first, and I wouldn't consider Mackay an actual politician at the time. Whether Nemwan actually was the first, however, depends on whether Fred McDonald (Federal MP for Barton, 1922-1925) and/or Hyman Goldstein (NSW MLC from same era) are considered to be assassinated or not. (McDonald mysteriously disappeared, and Goldstein went over The Gap in mysterious circumstances: both are strongly suspected of having been murdered by Thomas John Ley) Rebecca 04:35, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Good point. The term is usually reserved for people not just in the public eye (as all politicians are, at least to their own electorates), but to those with a national/international profile. I doubt this was true of Newman. I lived in Canberra at the time, and I was very aware of major goings on in state politics in the eastern states, but the first I ever heard of him was when he was killed. The media has a lot to answer for with over-blown language that consfuses the facts. If we dispense with the distinction between assassinated and just plain murdered, it's clear from your information that he wasn't the first to be murdered. JackofOz 06:28, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Btw, as far as I can tell, Mackay was never an elected politician at all despite several attempts. JackofOz 06:29, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't personally dispute that Newman was assassinated - if we look at the Wikipedia definition, which says "Assassination is the murder of a person, usually a political figure or other strategically important individual. An assassin or the assassin's employer usually has an ideological or political agenda, and regards the target as an obstacle to furthering his agenda." I think Newman comes under that - he was a political figure. Rebecca 06:31, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

I guess it comes down to where one draws the line. The murder of John Howard would certainly be an assassination. But for the sake of discussion, take the humblest, lowliest, back-bench hack senator who never makes a speech, never gets on TV, never makes news, has never been remotely close to a ministry or a shadow ministry, and is virtually unknown even to his state electors; he may be a politician but by no stretch of the imagination could he be called a well-known public figure. (I can't give you any examples because, by definition, I don't know the names of such persons; but I have little doubt they exist). If he were shot, would that be an assassination, or just a murder? The person would no doubt suddenly assume an importance in death that they never had in life, and the media would probably be retrospectively half-justified in claiming he was "assassinated". I really don't know the answer to such questions, as they're inherently subjective. In law, of course, there is no such thing as assassination, it's just plain murder/homicide, no matter how lofty the victim might be. JackofOz 03:51, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I've had a look at this article and believe the following would be appropriate in the lead: "His assassination was the first confirmed murder of a serving Australian political figure which was politically motivated, and the first such crime to be successfully prosecuted as such."

I cannot agree with the current lead of "He was the first politician to be assassinated in Australia" as that simple statement of fact is bought into doubt with the note attached to it. Also, as discussed above, the wording needs to be considered carefully - as it stands, other politicians have been killed before, although the motive could not be always proven to be political - even in Newman's case, the motive was said by some to be criminal rather than simply political in motivation. Donald Mackay is discussed about, but really should be said to be the victim of a organised crime hit rather than an assassination per se. The killing of Justice Opas in 1980 could be said to be politically motivated in that it attacked or sought to change Family Law in Australia, and certainly under the legislation of the time the act would be described in the same vein as a terrorist action. Are diplomats considered to be politicians by extension (representative of their government?) - Then the statement is also challenged with the assassination of Sarik Ariyak in 1980 as well. So in short I feel the statement is not clear enough, nor specifically accurate enough, especially under WP:FACT. I will make this edit in a week or so if there is no further discussion. Akitora (talk) 13:13, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

I also don't think the statement is true, although it's been fairly widely used in the press. The examples listed above are fair, but the NSW MPs who died in mysterious circumstances after opposing that (later to be convicted of serial killing) MP in the 1920s come to mind... Rebecca (talk) 01:54, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Looks like the developments dug up by Four Corners and broadcast (script etc at http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2008/s2208164.htm ) this month would point to a taking a close look at the article again, as well as that of Phuong_Ngo with updates. As far as notoriety is concerned, the article certainly as written in the lead shows the assassination is pretty much what people remember him for. It's also what Phuong_Ngo is known for. Given the size of both articles and the unlikely possibility of the being enough information on either man to complete their bio to FA status, prehaps a new article - the Newman Assassination or the like, should be written and both these articles merged to it until they grow enough to look at making them stand alone again.Akitora (talk) 05:32, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Given it is slightly feasable that Holt was assassinated, despite the massive lack of evidence, wouldn't it be NPOV to introduce some slight doubt to the 'first assassination' claim? Also, does 'plagued' by crime constitute a weasel word?--Senor Freebie (talk) 22:02, 20 December 2011 (UTC).

Newman was not the first Australian politician to be assassinated. The article needs correction. Percival Stanley Brookfield (7 August 1875 – 22 March 1921) was a member of the New South Wales Legislative Assembly from 1917 until he was shot dead by a madman at Riverton Railway station(SA). Look up Percival Brookfield in wikipedia (!) to get his details. I have lost count how many times this mistake is made in the media. 110.32.233.170 (talk) 16:46, 29 December 2012

I have removed the remark "Newman's death has been inaccurately described by the media as Australia's first political assassination." made by 14.202.126.109. It cited three reliable sources, used them as primary sources, and disputed their accuracy without evidence from another source. Whether or not this was Australia's first political assassination, asserting one way or the other doesn't add much to the article. DpEpsilon ( talk | contribs ) 10:20, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 17:49, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Night club

I have moved following comment from front page (don't know the truth of it)--Grahamec 12:49, 11 September 2007 (UTC): Phuong Ngo was not a night club owner. He set up the Mekong Club, a community social club, specifically for the Vietnamese community, similar to an RSL Club or a Leagues Club. It has since been bought by Penrith Leagues Club and is still open.

Ngo did not own or set up the Mekong Club. As a leading member of the Vietnamese community, he was it's honourary president. He was later investigated for using Mekong Club assetts such as a mobile phone and car. He did own a newspaper though, Asia Press Ltd. Wayne (talk) 07:32, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

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