Talk:Ida B. Wells/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Tazewell Thompson quote, or "the Constant Star section"

Is that Tazewell quote there just to take up space? What little relevance it has could be better expressed by a wiki author.

I'm not sure if the previous comment was by Jerome Moss or not.... In any case, I completely agree with your questioning of the relevance of a whole section devoted to the play Constant Star. Rather than keep the section, I took out virtually all of it and put it in the article for the playwright, Tazewell Thompson. I did, however, leave a bit of it at the end of Wells's biography, since it seemed to nicely sum up her life, including some things that have yet to be written about. (Sigh). Anyway, I've put the entire deleted section below for anyone's perusal.
I added back in one brief sentence about the play. I think the article needs that. It did not read well without some linking introduction to the actual quote from the play -- if the play's going to be quoted from, it should be introduced. But I agree that the original wording gave perhaps too much detail and emphasis to the play. Also, great to have a link to Tazewell Thompson.--BenJonson (talk) 22:24, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
==Constant Star==
There is a play/musical about Wells's life called Constant Star. Authored by Tazewell Thompson, the play uses five actresses to play her as well as other persons in her life. Although primarily a drama, it includes about 20 negro spirituals sung by the actresses. Of his play, Thompson says
My first introduction to Ida B. Wells was the PBS documentary on her life. Her story gnawed at me. A woman born in slavery, she would grow to become one of the great pioneer activists of the Civil Rights movement. A precursor of Rosa Parks, she was a suffragist, newspaper editor and publisher, investigative journalist, co-founder of the NAACP, political candidate, mother, wife, and the single most powerful leader in the anti-lynching campaign in America. A dynamic, controversial, temperamental, uncompromising race woman, she broke bread and crossed swords with some of the movers and shakers of her time: Frederick Douglass, Susan B. Anthony, Marcus Garvey, Booker T. Washington, W. E. B. Du Bois, President McKinley. By any fair assessment, she was a seminal figure in Post-Reconstruction America.
On her passing in 1931, Ida B. Wells was interred in the Oak Woods Cemetery, Chicago. Her formidable contributions to the Civil Rights movement have, until most recently, been under-appreciated. Until now; almost, but not quite, an historical footnote.
This play with song is my attempt to let her story breathe freely on stage - to give it a symphonic expression - to give her extraordinary persona an audience, something she always craved.

My name is Jerome Moss and I was the first black Postmaster in Holly Springs, MS, the town where she was born. She is still respected there and I was able to get the Post Office named in her honor. There is a Ida B. Wells museum with the greatest Curater, Mrs. L Harris. One can learn a lot from her.

Jerome Moss--13.8.125.11 14:38, 20 July 2006 (UTC) --13.8.125.10 17:46, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Can we get good documentation of the renaming of the Post Office in Holly Springs? If so, it should be added to the article.--BenJonson (talk) 22:24, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Klan at end of 19th century?

The generally accepted history of the Ku Klux Klan is that the original group ended with Reconstruction and that it was revived in the 1910s with the release of D.W. Griffith's movie The Birth of a Nation. Is this really true? If it is, then racist activities in the era discussed here, although reprehensible, cannot be linked to the Klan.

75.204.213.127 (talk) 14:30, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

This is the generally accepted history of the Klan - it was revived in 1915. I agree that it was not responsible for end of 19th c. violence against African Americans. The KKK was repressed in the early 1870s, but other groups attacked freedmen to prevent them from voting (Red Shirts and White League, for instance.) After Democrats regained control and gradually disfranchised African Americans, that kind of militia violence generally ceased. Lynchings generally arose from local mobs.Parkwells (talk) 14:30, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Deleted draft article

The unsigned draft article in this space did not constitute Fair Use Rationale, and this is the wrong place for a draft article. Deleted it. Please add material and edit on the main page of the article. This is supposed to be the place to discuss how to improve it. It needs serious editing - it is rambling and sentences need improvement.Parkwells (talk) 14:35, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

SUM IT UP

this is like way too long. just a simple sentence would be nice. since i could spend ours trying to find out what i want to here (and i dont have that kind of time) ill go elsewhere. PS-(I dont need to know everything about her from what she wore all the way to how many facial blembeshes she had) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.22.205.159 (talk) 22:51, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia has a guideline on article size. The article is currently 22kb, which is well under the point at which we're usually concerned about the article length for length sake. Usually summary information is found in the opening few lines of the article. Of course it would be nice if each reader were given an article tailored to what they want, but we don't have a way of determining that. Best wishes, --TeaDrinker (talk) 23:07, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
I agree that it seems long, in part because of rambling sentence style, lack of concision, and poor organization - repetition of material within a few paragraphs. We all need to work at editing.Parkwells (talk) 14:51, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Mixed Heritage?

Supposedly, her father James Wells was the son of a white slave master and his black slave. Bab-a-lot (talk) 23:13, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

"Rhetorical Style and Effect" section is a thesis

As far as I can tell, the entirety of the section titled "Rhetorical Style and Effect" is a thesis. That is, it is interpretation of facts. Judging from the notes, the thesis is Campbell's, but everything is presented as an objective fact and not as interpretation. At the very least, it should be made clear in the text (not simply in notes) whose thesis this is. More likely, this entire section has no place in a Wikipedia article. If the thesis is the original work of the editor, well, that's even more problematic. Wikipedia is not the place for presenting original research. I'm not making any judgement about the value of the thesis, which seems compelling and is certainly interesting. I'm only saying this isn't the place for it. Matt Thorn (talk) 07:15, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

The section was added all at once by user Womensrhetoric (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) on 2 May 2011. I would favour drastic trimming, and attribution of of the opinions, at the very least. But perhaps just list the current 'Campbell' reference as Further Reading. William Avery (talk) 10:24, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

File:Mary Garrity - Ida B. Wells-Barnett - Google Art Project - restoration crop.jpg to appear as POTD

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Mary Garrity - Ida B. Wells-Barnett - Google Art Project - restoration crop.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on February 1, 2015. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2015-02-01. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. Thanks! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:28, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Ida B. Wells
Ida B. Wells (1862–1931) was an African-American journalist, newspaper editor, suffragist, sociologist, and an early leader in the civil rights movement. Born into slavery in Holly Springs, Mississippi, Wells and her family were freed by the Emancipation Proclamation of 1863. Despite losing her parents to yellow fever when she was sixteen, Wells attended Fisk University and became a teacher. Politically active since her youth, she also became a writer on race issues and campaigned against lynching; in this latter capacity she published two influential pamphlets and traveled throughout the United States and the United Kingdom. Wells also helped establish the National Association of Colored Women and the National Afro-American Council.Photograph: Mary Garrity; restoration: Adam Cuerden
Archive – More featured pictures...

Source needed

Can someone provide a source for the content removed here [1] -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 19:29, 17 February 2015 (UTC)

Just Stop - Please!!!!!!

There is no way that there is a lock by Gillum on the Ida B Wells webpage, when the update is unsupported bullshit. I think with all of the following comments reqarding inconsistancies you should consider deletng the whole racist webpage. Why do her children have to be identified as white, when they aren't? It seems that either you have over zealous staff members or a high tolerance for racist trash. I have not been on one civil rights member's webpage where the individual and their families have not been overshadowed to with racist overtones.

How about a VALID newsflash, for one, she is NOT black or African. Two, she did not marry one. Three, they are Jews and as being one myself, we are tired of all the mis-designation of our race/ethnicities based on skin tone.

We are not Ever taking the governments wacked census survey and identifying ourselves as black, just because the government wants to act like the US is primarily black/white, which is a lie. Wikipedia is being used by scholars and should be more responsible in what is listed, especially when it is wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.206.112.194 (talk) 07:47, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Information Inaccurate - Please Edit Text

There is a serious lack of congruity in this article. A large portion of the text has Ms. Wells engaging in activity AFTER the date of her death. Would someone with a better sense of her personal history please edit the biography

all this stuff is not true its all lies so don't use it;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.126.72.205 (talk) 22:45, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
In the little summary box of her life at the top, it says she lived from 1862-1931 (age 68), but then in the article it says she died at age 103??? which is correct. Also it says that some woman had been president of one of the associations she founded '23years running' in 1899. That means Ida Wells would've been less than 15 years old when someone became president of an association which she hadn't even founded yet. Third, it says she met Ferdinand Barnett when he was president of the Ida B Wells club. I seriously doubt it was called the Ida B Wells club at that time.
It was, actually, called the Ida B. Wells Club. She formed it in 1893. Lyrric (talk) 19:40, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
Gosh, this is one of the most important African American female activists and we can't get the story straight? Somebody please do some research on the facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.232.65.127 (talk) 06:36, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
Also was expelled from Shaw and then dropped out to help her siblings? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.194.214.186 (talk) 12:39, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
The McMurry reference supports that she actually continued attending Shaw even while helping her siblings, until she was expelled for confronting the president. I removed the contradictory "dropped out" part. TheBlinkster (talk) 10:30, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Ida B.Wells-Barnett

The Wikipedia makes contradictory statements about her college education at Shaw University. In one paragraph, it says she was expelled from Shaw for her rebellious behavior to the President of Shaw. Two or three paragraphs down, it states that she dropped out of Shaw to keep her 5 other siblings and herself from being placed in different foster homes after her mother, father and little brother died of Yellow Fever. So, my quesition is: which is the truth? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:CFAF:E350:8DD4:C2FD:EF80:E774 (talk) 22:34, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

The McMurry reference supports that she was expelled. I removed the "dropped out" part. TheBlinkster (talk) 10:33, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

People's Grocery in Early Career section

Only the Wells quote has a citation. Material on this business, its competition with a store across the street, the 1892 altercation (which involved the shootings of three white males), the following lynch mob, and motives for participants in these events are all unsourced and possibly not too accurate. The events themselves occurred but some of the reasons remain unclear. For instance, Wells relates an earlier fight between area white and colored children which involved the adult store owners in a legal dispute [1]. Apparently a colored boy in the fight had been flogged by one of the white adults. So, did personal animosities not related to business competition factor?

Likewise, most recent historians writing about the People’s Grocery have had political interests in the story. It was an issue discussed in Populist circles then, and covered mainly by feminists and civil rights activists today [2]. Which makes it doubtful in my opinion that some things about it will ever be known.

If the race controversy is going to remain intractable, a summary article just giving dates, places, and names would be preferable to narrative or explanation. Ida Wells is looked to as a founding figure in American sociology and social work, meaning that lots of students consult the Wiki first to get research leads. They shouldn't have to wade through interpretive clutter to do so.

[1] Wells, I. (1892/2013). A Lynching at the Curve, 1892. [Book chapter]. Pp. 47-52 in A. Duster, (Ed.), Crusade for justice: The autobiography of Ida B. Wells. Chicago: University of Chicago Press. (Waldrep 2006, used elsewhere in the Wiki article, does contain this selection but it’s not cited for the People’s Grocery, only for Well’s leaving Memphis after the Free Speech newspaper offices were sacked.)

[2] Sterling, D. (1988). Black Foremothers. New York: The Feminist Press. Jessegalebaker (talk) 18:21, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 July 2015

Ida B. Wells's parents were active in the Republican Party during Reconstruction.

72.174.112.189 (talk) 21:23, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

Not done: as you have not requested a specific change in the form "Please replace XXX with YYY" or "Please add ZZZ between PPP and QQQ".
More importantly, you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 08:02, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 July 2015

I was so excited to see "American Journalist" Not adding woman or African was, in my mind, A profound step forward. She was acknowledged for her contributions in and of themselves. It saddened me to see the addition, although I do understand. Thank You for my moment of hope that humans are starting to see the person not the labels. 70.102.94.154 (talk) 02:08, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

 Not done - No request, but thank you for your kind comments.
Please note that Semi-protected edit requests are to enable people to request a change to the article, not pass comments, which can be left on this page without such a template. - Arjayay (talk) 08:06, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

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A grammar issue

Should not the word organ be replaced with propaganda organ in the follow sentence "In 1894 before leaving for her second visit to Great Britain, Wells called on William Penn Nixon, the editor of Daily Inter-Ocean. This Chicago paper was the local Republican Party organ and competitor to the Democratic Chicago Tribune.[26]"?

no, most newspapers were locked into one party or the other in those days. the editors were not pawns, they helped set policy. The Chicago Tribune was the leading REPUBLICAN paper of the Midwest. Rjensen (talk) 15:00, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

The Wells and W. E. B. Du Bois section

This section seems oddly short and only has 2 citations. Perhaps this information can be put into a different section in the article. If not, I think more content or another citation should be added to the existing section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by IWells (talk • contribs) 04:01, 3 February 2017 (UTC)

Willard Controversy

This is my first comment, ever, on wikipedia. In paragraph three, under 'Willard Controversy', it says, "In response, Willard and her supporter Lady Somerset attempted to use their influence to keep Wells' comments at lectures out of the press. Wells said that, despite Willard's having abolitionist forebears and black friends, she would allow black women to join the WCTU's segregated southern branches.[citation needed]"

I think it probably should be ... despite Willard's having abolitionist forebears and black friends, she would not allow black women to join the WCTU's segregated southern branches..." [note added - not]

The original didn't make sense - but I'm not familiar with Willard or Wells enough to be certain of this. Perhaps someone with better knowledge can fix - if needed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sclaghorn (talk • contribs) 18:21, 14 June 2017 (UTC)

"Influence On Black Feminist Activism"

In two edits on 23 March 2016, an editor added a wodge of text about Wells's "Influence On Black Feminist Activism" (so capitalized). Since then, a chunk has been appended to it (see below), the capitalization has been changed, the quotation marks uncurlied, but virtually no other change has been made.

We learn that one academic "characterized the work of black militant feminism such as Ida B. Wells-Barnett as a kind of 'limbo' dance." This calls for, and gets, a paragraph-long explanation of what the metaphor means. In particular, that "In their progressive forward movement, contemporary black feminisms often bend backward toward historical protofeminist ancestors like abolitionist Maria W. Stewart, Ida B. Wells, and Ella Baker." So who were/are (metaphorically) doing the limbo? Here it seems to be not Wells and some of her contemporaries but instead some of our contemporaries.

And this section of the article concluded with this paragraph:

While researching Wells-Barnett's life, this "bending backward" or "limbo" dancing that James theorizes manifests through a larger vision to build a black feminist movement that included black men, white women and white men. Wells-Barnett's anti-lynching campaign superseded the suffragists and racial uplift movements of her time due to her ability to call everyone to the proverbial table and ask for their accountability.

While who was or is researching her life?

All I know about Wells is what I read in the article. This tells me that the peak of her anti-lynching campaign took place in the 1890s. Suffragism started well before that but continued (and became more newsworthy) into the 20th century. How can Wells's campaign have "superseded" it? And this paragraph is unsourced.

(The new chunk, starting "Although not a feminist writer....", was added in this series of edits by somebody whose entire list of contributions to Wikipedia was made in one day. It's actually about Wells, makes sense, and was a beneficial contribution.)

Beyond this, there are hundreds of academics. Why spotlight the theory of just one among them?

I suggest removal of the entire content of this section preceding "Although not a feminist writer....", unless somebody can make it more coherent, can get all of it sourced, and can cite other scholars who concur with James. -- Hoary (talk) 00:17, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

No response, so I'm about to cut the material about one Joy James. -- Hoary (talk) 12:30, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
Thanks, I agree that the material can be cut, it is a bit jargony/unencyclopedic in tone and tangential to Wells. The book itself could be used as a source for her legacy to feminism, but I agree that there are lots of academics writing about Wells and there isn't a clear reason to use this one. I think that material from the rest of the section should be merged with some of the other material in the legacy section, although I like the idea of keeping most of it and perhaps making it a subsection of the legacy section having to do with feminism. Smmurphy(Talk) 16:19, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

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African-American journalist, abolitionist and feminist who led an anti-lynching crusade in the United States in the 1890s. She went on to found and become integral in groups striving for African-American justice.

She died March 25, 1931. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.183.238.29 (talk) 20:42, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Role of Democrat Party in Racism/Lynching in Memphis

This article neglects to mention which GROUP was responsible for the Lynchings. This is an important fact. Southern Democrats and their offshoot, the KKK were largely responsible but this fact has been omitted - a clear whitewash of the Dem party history of racism in America. Time to tell the WHOLE Truth and fess up to the role of the Dem party. If the Republican party had been involved, that would have featured prominently in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:2C7:4580:2170:25BA:7013:529A:18DB (talk) 19:54, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Do you have a reliable source? deisenbe (talk) 20:12, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Freedman's School from Info Box/Education

I removed "Freedman's School" from the Info Box under Education. Freedman's schools were a category of schools created to provide education to freedmen and their children. Rust University, which Wells (like her father)attended, was a Freedman's School.

Sequoia51 (talk) 20:31, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

Update to Ida B. Wells Page

Hi everyone, myself and a colleague are enrolled in a Wiki.edu course in partnership with the National Archives, and we are planning to update this article over the next couple of days. We have added some new content, reorganized existing content, and in some small cases deleted content. Thanks for all the hard work on this page so far! anthonycsiracusa Anthonycsiracusa (talk) 20:30, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

edditing : Ida B.well

Hello everyone, I would like to make a change in the article Ida B. Well. On the second paragraph where it informs the readers that Ida B. Wells lost her parents and a sibling to yellow fever. Below is the change I want to make to the paragraph. I want to change sibling to infant brother. The soure i will be citing will be from the Cite error: There are <ref> tags on this page without content in them (see the help page).womenhistory.org and the National Women's History Museum

Wells was born into slavery in Holly Springs, Mississippi. She was freed by the Emancipation Proclamation during the American Civil War. At the age of 16, she lost both her parents and her infant brother in the 1878 yellow fever epidemic. She went to work and kept the rest of the family intact with the help of her grandmother. She moved with some of her siblings to Memphis, Tennessee, where she found better pay as a teacher. Soon she co-owned a newspaper, the Memphis Free Speech, and Headlight.Cturbeville71 (talk) 00:43, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

OK. Alanscottwalker (talk) 13:08, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Non-neutral descriptions in text; info inaccurate

Wikipedia says articles should be neutral in nature yet this piece includes statements like the following:

"Because of her constant complaining and nagging about the lynchings" immediately after reporting on the lynching of 3 black men in Memphis. She was a journalist who reported on the lynching incident and demanded that black people be given the same right to defend themselves as white people and the same right to trial. Neither of these requests constitutes "nagging or complaining."

The piece also misrepresents the lynching incident:

"One night, while Wells was out of town, an attack broke out ending in three white men being shot and injuried. A two sided story emerged: One stating the African Americans raped a local white women and one, less heard story, of unjust acts on the black men by the whites. Without trial, Moss, McDowell, and Stewart, were brutally murdered based on the accusations of the white residents of Memphis."

The accepted facts of the case were that white store owners were upset about lost business and attacked the 3 black owners at their store not that "an attack broke out." They defended themselves and one white man was shot and injured. The language of the existing text implies the attack was unintentional and b/c white people were injured it leaves ambiguous that black people were the target of the attack. The 3 black men were then arrested for shooting him and later dragged from their jail cell in the middle of the night and lynched by an angry mob. Wells account of the incident, cited in the wikipedia case, was widely read as were the accounts of anti-lynching activists that were given in speeches, circulated in pamphlets, etc. This hardly constitutes "less heard story" it is in fact the historically accurate and accepted story.

It seems quite sad that the wikipedia on an anti-lynching activist has allowed such a biased rendition of the incident that propelled her to the forefront of this campaign.

Fair use rationale for Image:Idawells2.jpg

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If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

USER MARIPOOH96 AMARI S

Citations

I've noticed there are several numbers in superscript that look like citations, except they are not hyperlinked to anything in the reference section. I'm afraid that say [46] may have at one time been trying to refer to reference 46. The problem becomes as more citations are added or deleted, the numbers will not match. Can anyone shed light on this? Do we just need to delete all of the non-linked citations? Knope7 (talk) 03:00, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Neutrality

The article seems to have some areas were the language used appears subjective. Does this language come from a secondary source? If not, the language likely should be changed.Kdorse29 (talk) 03:16, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

Suggested Bibliography

  • Boyd, Melba Joyce. "Canon Configuration for Ida B. Wells-Barnett." The Black Scholar 24(1) (1994): 8–13. Accessed February 15, 2020. JSTOR 41068453. ISSN 0006-4246. OCLC 5543339951.
  • Davis, Simone W. "The "Weak Race" and the Winchester: Political Voices in the Pamphlets of Ida B. Wells-Barnett." Legacy. 12(2) (January 1995): 77-97. Accessed February 15, 2020. JSTOR 25679164. ISSN 0748-4321. OCLC 5542834456.
  • Pich, Hollie. "Various, Beautiful, and Terrible: The Life and Legacy of Ida B. Wells-Barnett." Australasian Journal of American Studies. 34(2) (2015): 59–74. Accessed February 15, 2020. JSTOR 44779734. ISSN 1838-9554. OCLC 7973241351.

Untitled (suggested bibliography?)

Caps

Main page: Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Capital letters
"Black and White: A Matter of Capitalization". The Chicago Manual of Style – cmosshoptalk.com (online). 17th ed.; section 8.38. University of Chicago Press. June 22, 2020. Retrieved November 10, 2020.  "[W]e now prefer to write Black with a capital B when it refers to racial and ethnic identity". {{cite web}}: Cite has empty unknown parameter: |editors= (help)CS1 maint: postscript (link)
The Ida B. Wells article has it both ways. Notwithstanding discussions (MoS:CAPS guidelines) advising against capitalizing Black and White when referring to race, I'm going to step out on a limb and respectfully suggest that editors capitalize Black and White when referring to race. Either way, we should aim to be consistent. – Eurodog (talk) 21:03, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

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