Talk:Historiography of Skanderbeg

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Copyright problem[edit]

"With much of the Balkans under Ottoman rule and with the Turks at the gates of Vienna in 1683, nothing could have captivated readers in the West more than an action-packed tale of heroic Christian resistance to the "Moslem hordes""

This is completely rewritten from Südost Forschungen: Volume 52 - Südost-Institut München, Deutsches Auslandswissenschaftliches Institut (Berlin, Germany) - 1993 .--Antidiskriminator (talk) 13:05, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In 16th century?[edit]

Resolved

"Books on the Albanian prince began to appear in Western Europe in the early 16th century."

I think this is incorrect. The first literature work that mention Skanderbeg is work of Konstantin Mihailović written in period 1490—1497. (Živanović, Đorđe. "Konstantin Mihailović iz Ostrovice". Predgovor spisu Konstantina Mihailovića "Janičarove uspomene ili turska hronika" (in Serbian). Projekat Rastko, Poljska. Archived from the original on 19 April 2011. Retrieved 19 April 2011. Taj rukopis je... postao pre 1500. godine, a po svoj prilici još za vlade Kazimira Jagjelovića (1445-1492)....Kao što smo već rekli, Konstantin Mihailović je negde između 1497. i 1501. napisao jedino svoje književno delo, koje je sačuvano u raznim prepisima sve do naših dana....delo napisano verovatno između 1490. i 1497, i to zbog toga što se u njemu Matija Korvin spominje kao već mrtav, a poljski kralj Jan Olbraht kao živ. {{cite book}}: More than one of |author= and |last= specified (help)) --Antidiskriminator (talk) 13:14, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I added information about this memoires into section about literature.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:03, 22 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Article structure[edit]

I did a first attempt at structuring this new article. I hope the Skanderbeg experts can come up wit the theater, cinema, music etc. around Skanderbeg :-) --DeVerm (talk) 13:25, 22 July 2011 (UTC).[reply]

Are histories literature works?[edit]

Resolved

There are many works about Skanderbeg written by historians. I think that sources like works of historians should not have its place within this article because they are not art (i.e. not literature) but they are science. I think that it is quite clear. I think there is a problem how to treat some works written in medieval period or during early modern period which often contain word history in their names but they are obviously not scientific works written by historians (like Barleti or Frang Bardhi). I propose to treat all such works as literature (just for inclusion into this section, not for it reliability) because they are not works of historians and therefore they probably should be treated more like art then science. Works of modern and contemporary historians are obviously not literature and should be treated within different article if it is necessary. Does anybody disagree with my proposal?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 09:42, 23 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

History works/memoirs/historiographic diaries etc. are not considered works of literature. Btw creating copy/paste articles makes them ineligible for DYK, so why didn't you at least rephrase the content? Also the Mihailovic source says that he is mentioned in a chapter i.e source misrepresentation but it's not a work of literature but a soldier's diary.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 10:09, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Literature says:

Philosophical, historical, journalistic, legal and scientific writings are traditionally ranked as literature. They offer some of the oldest prose writings in existence; novels and prose stories earned the names "fiction" to distinguish them from factual writing or nonfiction, which writers historically have crafted in prose.

--DeVerm (talk) 14:48, 24 July 2011 (UTC).[reply]

The Memoirs article begins with :A Memoir is a literary genre...--Antidiskriminator (talk) 20:28, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hannes Bjarnason and "Rímur af Skanderbeg Epirótakappa"[edit]

Hannes Bjarnason wrote a poem about Skanderbeg - "Rímur af Skanderbeg Epirótakappa". Maybe this poem is not so famous, but it is interesting that Skanderbeg inspired poet from Island at the beginning of 19th century. The book is written in period when writer was alive (14. janúar 1777 – 9. nóvember 1838) but published in 1861. I propose to add information about this poem to the article. Is anybody against it?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 14:51, 13 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Another argument to add this information to the article is that it is not just a poem, it is Rimur. Rímur "are epic tales sung as alliterative, rhyming ballads, usually a cappella. Rímur can be traced back to the Viking Age Eddic poetry of the Skalds and employs complex metaphors and cryptic rhymes and forms. Some of the most famous rímur were written between the 18th and early 20th centuries, by poets like Hannes Bjarnason (1776–1838), Jón Sigurðsson (1853–1922) and Sigurður Breiðfjörð (1798–1846)".--Antidiskriminator (talk) 14:58, 13 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nicole Granucci - "Di Scanderbeg, l 'origine de ' Cavallieri Hospitalari di Gierusalen, e la Descrittione dell 'Isola di Malta" written in 1569[edit]

There are many sources with information that Italian writer Nicole Granucci (1521—1603) wrote in 1569: "Di Scanderbeg, l 'origine de ' Cavallieri Hospitalari di Gierusalen, e la Descrittione dell 'Isola di Malta".

[1] - The Universal Dictionary of Biography and Mythology, Clu-hys By Joseph Thomas (2010)
[2] - Oriente moderno, Volume 15 (1996)
[3] - The Princeton University library chronicle, Volume 62, Issue 2 (2001)
[4] - The established Church of England: how does it work? By Society for the Liberation of Religion from State-Patronage and Control (1829)
[5] - Early Western Books, 1500-1599 (1994)

Taking in consideration that this is one of the oldest literary works about Skanderbeg I propose to include information about it in the text of the article. Does anybody object?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 09:54, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Work of Andrea Cambini written in 1529[edit]

Cambini, Andrea (1529), Libro d'Andrea Cambini: Fiorentino della origine de Turchi et imperio dell Ottomanni (in Italian), Firenze: Stampato per li heredi di P. di Giunta, OCLC 251615715 {{citation}}: Cite has empty unknown parameters: |nopp=, |lastauthoramp=, |month=, |laydate=, |laysummary=, |chapterurl=, |doi-inactive-date=, and |separator= (help); More than one of |author= and |last= specified (help)

In second part (Secondo starts at leaf num 21) of his work Andrea Cambini writes about Skanderbeg (Georgio Skanderbei or Scanderbech). I believe this very important early work deserves to be mentioned in this article. Does anybody objects?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 10:35, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Early 19th century songs about Skanderbeg sang by Armatoloi and Klephts?[edit]

I found early 19th century source which, if I am not wrong, mentions songs about Skanderbeg sang by Armatoloi and Klephts.

Enciklopedičeskij leksikonʺ. 1835. p. 131. ...ихъ теряется во мракѣ неизвѣстности изысканія о ихъ различные результаты первые слѣды Арматоловъ въ царствованіе Константина Порфиророднаго Ризо Неруло смотритъ на ихъ происхожденіе какъ на слѣдствіе битвъ за свободу еще и донынѣ прославляемаго въ ихъ пѣсняхъ героя Георгія Кастріота Скандербега а Флоріель полагаетъ напротивъ

Does anybody has anything against inclusion of this interesting information to this article?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 11:15, 8 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Arbereshe music[edit]

With this edit (diff) editor Resnjari added text on Arbereshe music about Skenderbeg and his exploits. No timefrime is specified when this music was first performed, who composed it, what type of music is in question. This editor added the text about this music before Vivaldi's opera performed in 1718, without any source that confirms it was performed before Vivaldi's music. Until this issue is resolved I will readd Clarify timeframe template. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 15:59, 7 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

With this diff edit Resnjari:

tries to avoid to clarify the timeframe of the assertion they insterted
classified music as flokloristic without any source to back it up
again placing this assertion chronologically before Vivaldi's 1718 opera without presenting a single source about the year or date when this music was composed or performed for the first time.

Resnjari, please be so kind to respect WP:BRD, revert your bold additions, and adress well justified concerns with your editing.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 16:13, 7 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Frankly i don't have time for your WP:TENDENTIOUS editing. The section got split into two since you brought up issues. It does the job, is precise and easy for a reader to locate info.Resnjari (talk) 16:16, 7 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]