Talk:Frank Kovacs

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removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV[edit]

I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:

This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:

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Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 01:10, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Kovacs Kramer head to head[edit]

A Philadelphia Inquirer article in 1950 says the amateur head to head of Kramer and Kovacs was 16-0, not 14-3. https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/173742680/ But in post-war meetings Kramer led 4-0 (Kramer beat Kovacs at Philadelphia pro event in 1950, 1951 and twice in 1952). I think this stat should be removed or context of post-war wins inserted. Tennishistory1877 (talk) 12:25, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

So Philadelphia Inquirer has Kovacs leading Kramer 16-0 as amateurs and the source quoted PLTA year book has a 14-1 amateur record in favour of Kovacs (added with their two pro meetings to October 1951 makes this 14-3). Pro meetings were 4-0 to Kramer. Tennishistory1877 (talk) 12:52, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

They all count in the lifetime hth, we do that for all other players. Rosewall and Hoad played many matches pre-20 year old, Borg likewise, many other players. If you are good enough to play on the men's circuit, you have to include the matches. Should we eliminate the records of Rosewall and Hoad pre-1956? That would help their overall stats, but it would run against the standard practice. Also, why not exclude matches from the hth count when a player is over 35? Where do you draw the line for this?Tennisedu (talk) 17:31, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Well for a start, the total head to head is not listed (Kramer won two matches after the quote). I have no problem acknowledging the wins by Kovacs, but context should be shown. I think it may be fairer to list the amateur quote in the Philadelphia Inquirer. This would show a definate period of matches. If I can find a quote containing all Kramer and Kovacs pro meetings I will insert that too, but at the moment, the quote seems to be a non-specific time period and I think this is not right according to wikipedia practices. Tennishistory1877 (talk) 18:46, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Known total head to heads now listed using most accurate information. Tennishistory1877 (talk) 19:30, 19 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Strange that Kovacs and Kramer only played each other as pros at one venue, Philadelphia on wood, perhaps Kovacs' weakest surface. The ball did not bounce up well on wood or on Forest Hills grass, and Kovacs was 6' 4" with a big windup to his strokes. Kovacs was better when the ball bounced higher into his wheelhouse, on clay, cement, canvas. Kramer may have avoided playing Kovacs on these surfaces. That would have been the smart thing to do.Tennisedu (talk) 05:03, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Kramer didnt need to avoid Kovacs (Kramer avoided playing tournaments but not playing Kovacs). All Kovacs' wins over Kramer were when Kramer was very young. Tennishistory1877 (talk) 12:40, 21 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Tennishistory1877, it is common in tennis writings to point out the extent and limits of a hth play between two players. Nothing wrong with that, and it was an important observation with respect to their personal play against each other.Tennisedu (talk) 02:02, 22 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

1941 ELO Rating for Kovacs[edit]

I believe that Sackmann gives a Number One ELO rating for Kovacs in 1941. Is this not a rating relative to other players for that year? Tennisedu (talk) 19:22, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]