Talk:Feadship/Archive 1

I decry this article!

Tagged article for Neutral Point of View. This article is thoroughly a promotional piece in favor of Feadship - it includes many statements praising the company and it's founders, etc. This violates the Wikipedia policy of Neutral Point of View. 4.239.0.150 19:09, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Okay, if you know it so well, I would like to see you (User:4.239.0.150|4.239.0.150) write a correct article on Feadship that would be approved by the Wikipedia elite. Lordmarchmain 19:40, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I am truly sorry if I have offended you - maybe I should have used gentler language in my original note. To me this seems like a very fine article as it stands, but just the words of praise give it a sense of being an advertisement, which is not a bad thing, but which is different from what you're looking for in an encyclopedia, which is expected to provide information but not to include the opinions of the writer. So, for example, if the founder of Feadship came up with a valuable, original idea, it would be better to refer to it as an "innovation" (which is factual) rather than a "stroke of genius" (which is a form of praise, therefore opinion). I think you have a much better chance than me of adjusting the article properly, since you seem to have a great deal of knowledge of this subject, whereas I do not. If you do choose to change it, I wish you every success. In any case, I would like to thank you for the valuable information you have provided! 4.239.0.252 04:26, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for your constructive comment. And thank you very much for your compliment. Sometimes it feels like all the work I do is unappreciated here on Wikipedia. Maybe that was the root of my bit harsh responce. I have made several changes to the text (including your suggestion). I hope this will make this an article to stay here on Wikipedia, because in my opinion Feadship deserves a place here. If you agree with the changes can the flag be removed? Lordmarchmain 12:08, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

You're quite welcome! I notice the change you made, which I certainly appreciate. If you believe the article does, in fact, have a neutral point of view, you can remove the tag yourself, and I will not insist on reapplying it. It consists of the letters POV surrounded by curly brackets, at the top of the source text on the article's edit page. My personal feeling is that the article continues to paint a positive picture of Feadship, instead of a strictly factual one. Some examples of non-neutral tone, which remain in the article, are:

"In the modern yachting world, the Feadship name is synonymous with perfection."

"The man behind this move, naval architect Henri de Voogt, was a visionary."

"By the early 70's however, Feadship's popularity was soaring, with several yachts being launched each year." (In this case, the word "soaring" is somewhat complimentary, as it implies flying like the birds, a positive, poetic motif. Admittedly, this is a subtle point. Perhaps "...Feadship's popularity had greatly increased..." would be a neutral alternative. It would be proper to cite a verifiable source for such a fact.)

In addition, the article's final paragraph contains a number of positive, admiring notes about the company. Instead of having an admiring or disapproving tone, my understanding is that Wikipedia wants the articles to be factual. Wikipedia's guidelines on Neutral Point of View can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view

There are other content issues which I have not mentioned, such as citing sources for facts. You can find an overview of Wikipedia's content guidelines, with links to more detailed information, here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_in_nine_words

I will leave the future of this article up to you, and whoever wishes to contribute to, and be involved with it. I do not expect to continue to be personally involved. Good luck, and best regards!!! 4.239.0.236 20:16, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I should point out that it is acceptable to quote passages of non-neutral text as long as it is pointed out that that is what they are, such as material from a company's own publications. In US law, material copyrighted by others can be used, within limits, in accordance with the "fair use" doctrine. The Wikipedia article on this subject can be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use

4.239.0.94 18:56, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks again for the constructive comments. I have taken them under advicement :-) and changed the article with your suggestions. Good ones. I have also deleted the dreaded tag. If anyone wants to add something to this article, feel free. I am as always open for suggestions and new views on the matter. Lordmarchmain 20:16, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I must agree entirely, I came looking for information and found what appears to be advertising copy. I own a Feadship and while what you have written is for the most part true, it is also for the most part saturated with opinion and a little "Purple" for a encyclopedia entry. "Looking back, it was a pivotal moment in the history of yacht building. Yet those involved in the launch of Feadship in 1949 also remember it as a difficult time." is really beyond facts, is it not. Text like "a convergence of factors was to finally leave the big three piloting the Feadship course together." is a bit verbose for an encyclopedia as well.

Please do not get me wrong, I worked as a writer for several years and really enjoy your style of writing, it is simply not appropriate here. Encyclopedias are dry sources of what is currently considered to be fact, not flowery novels. "the Feadship name is synonymous with perfection" I could not agree more, but it is an opinion, "the Feadship name is considered by many in the yachting industry to be synonymous with perfection" is a fact, pure and simple. I hope you can rewrite your article, if you can it will appeal to a much wider audience. As it is I, a Feadship owner, got a little diabetic after the first paragraph. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.38.182.188 (talk) 17:07, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for your constructive criticism and compliment to my writing style. It must be nice for you owning a Feadship yourself. Dare I ask which one? You can send me an message personally if you don't want to publish it here. I have edited the first paragraphs to make it more "encyclopedic" then it was before. If there are any other changes to be made I would love to hear it. I also invite everyone else who can contribute to a better article on Feadship to add to what has written so far. Lordmarchmain (talk) 10:38, 25 July 2008 (UTC)