Talk:Economy 7

Variation Facility

I have just landed on this article thanks to the Random Article button, and reading through it, something has occurred to me.

I seem to recall that at one time, Economy 7 had some kind of facility which allowed you to vary the times at which your heating, water, etc, was on. This meant it would come on for a couple of hours during the afternoon and evening, as well as at night. I have a vague memory of Victoria Wood appearing in an advert for one of the old electricity boards shortly after they were privatized, in which she talked about the facility. Anyone got a reference on that one?

Paul from Brum (talk) 14:25, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Of course you can vary when your heating and water is put on to your heart's content... but that won't change what the 'off-peak' hours are, will it? If you want to change those, you need to be a Timelord. hth. 91.106.175.8 (talk) 09:18, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Is it more expensive 'on peak' with Economy 7, or are the daytime prices the same as normal when you're on Economy 7? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.105.218.37 (talk) 08:17, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I think the daytime prices are normal and the nighttime prices are cheaper. My Economy 7 meter has two readings - normal (day) and low (night). Night works from 12:30am to 7:30am (an hour later in the summer), but I believe it is possible to vary the times. I think you need a different control panel or something. Sometimes you can get an hour or two of cheap electricity during the day or evening. Hope this helps. TheRetroGuy (talk) 09:55, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

British Gas's website, at least, shows the daytime rate substantially more expensive than on a single rate tariff (32p/kWh v. 25p/kWh), at least for "Tier 1" (the first few hundred kWhs used per quarter.) -- Steved424 (talk) 21:00, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

"Consequently a house requires at least 20% of its consumption during the off-peak period to save money."

This statement does not make ANY sense in the context in which it is given. In the current context a house could have 0.01% of its consumption during off-peak and it would still be saving money. This implies that peak electricity is more expensive on Economy 7 (as the writer above asked) but this isn't mentioned anywhere in the article (which kinda implies that the statement has been copied verbatim from somewhere else). 91.106.175.8 (talk) 09:16, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Peak rate does seem to be more expensive, see above. -- Steved424 (talk) 21:00, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

I've removed this. I think it implies-- but does not state-- a standing charge for having Economy 7, 5 times (i.e. 1/20% = 5) of which would be the difference between that and the cheaper of the two daytime rates (i.e. to assume one uses more than the 700ish kWh each billing period).

Multiple circuits

I'm sure I've come across Economy 7 houses where the storage heaters were on a separate circuit, which was only powered during the off-peak period. Am I imagining this? Do modern storage heaters have their own timers, rendering this unnecessary? -- Steved424 (talk) 21:00, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

No I think you are right, in some properties that were purpose built they are on a separate ring, well they will be anyway because of the draw from them, but that ring goes only to the Econ7 meter and so you don't need a timer on each device. Of course that means you're screwed if you want heat on at any other time, but that doesn't matter since if you want heat on Thursday you better put the thing on on Tuesday, anyway, and hope the weather doesn't change, cos that never happens in Britain, right?

Storage heaters are, after all, just a lot of concrete blocks with wire wound through them that slowly heat up and then radiate (or convect?) the heat. The Romans managed that idea, I think.

Oh sorry went off on one then. Storage heaters-- would be GREAT idea in otherwise unheated villa in Spain in the winter-- temperature a bit nippy but pretty predictable-- USELESS in the UK. Last place had them, never used them, just had an electric bar fire I could control at will. Fortunately now I am back in a place with a coal fire. Nice 'n' toasty.

I realise this is not quite the place to reminisce on heating systems I have known, but it's a waffling stab (I've been editing all night and just need to waffle a bit) at saying, which really is implicit, that "on demand" ("I am cold NOW") and storage/deferred supply don't go together SimonTrew (talk) 04:24, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

You would expect storage heaters to be wired on a separate circuit, same as a cooker or immersion heater will almost always be on there own circuit. As such if a house already has storage heaters it won't need to be rewired to use Economy 7. If a separate meter with a separate timed supply is installed the relevant circuits can just be recounted at the consumer unit (fuse-box of old). I'll remove the comment to that effect as it's misleading.

IanOfNorwich (talk) 18:59, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Just to clarify, i'm currently just repairing a storage heater in this flat, and yes it's on its own circuit. So is the water heater (No Gas in the flat). we do have the option to turn the water heater on off peak using a timer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.106.196.47 (talk) 22:59, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

There are 2 further tariffs like E7, offered by Scottish Power: Comfort plus control and comfort plu white meter. These have the heaters on their own circuit. They may also have a weathercall system whereby the heaters get extra charge, dictated by SP, when forecast is cold. I think there may be a tiny amount fo info on SP's website about them, as far as I know they are no longer offered o new properties. SSE's Totoal heat toal control is similar I think2A02:C7D:D671:DA00:466:A53C:F482:1B4F (talk) 06:14, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Contradictions

Why does this article contradict itself? Bad form.

"The above is often not the case however." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Michaelward82 (talk • contribs) 23:30, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

Why don't you point out how it doesn't not contradict itself? SimonTrew (talk) 04:25, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

I have attemted to tidy up this section of the article. I have improved some of the wording and have removed some of the the contradictory uncited facts. 185.102.133.45 (talk) 13:09, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Large water storage with at least 8KW heater.

I have a large 10 KW storage cabinet (Electrick air)its 38 years old and not replace able now, small storage heaters are bulky and dont hold the heat long enough.I would like to use economy 7 with radiators from a large insulated water tank heated with 9 KW heater. I can put a tank in the basement. has ony one tried this, and what size tank is needed. at the moment I have modified the heater down to 8 K/Watts which is ample to heat the house. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.25.137.103 (talk) 20:31, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Article seems like BS

On what does the article base the claim that few houses have dedicated off peak wiring for storage and immersion heaters? 86.22.248.209 (talk) 19:41, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Actually the article contradicts itself first saying it's normal to have seperate wiring for storage heaters and then saying few houses do. 86.22.248.209 (talk) 19:42, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

I just made a comment above. I have two circuits one which is switched on during off peak hours which the storage heaters and the immersion tank run off. There is a timer to turn the immersion on during off peak. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.106.196.47 (talk) 23:00, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

=

In responce to this I have a flat on an estate constructed during the early 1970's and first served by the Southern Electricity Board: it has two indepenently fed arrays of circuit breackers (acting like a modern consumer unit) it was equiped with a teleswitch and the heateing and hotwater circuts are fed from one array only in the off-peak and the rest is supplied from the other arry fed all the time.

This system used was not economy-7 but an earlier type of tariff that was eventuly replaced for new connections by the economy-7 system. It was called White meter and had a night cycle from 11pm-7am allowing users to load and and set off machines like washing machines by hand at bed-time as well as supplying storage heaters for background heating. This time period was still good for load balenceing at that time but economy 7 focused more on heating both water and storage heating and was depolyed with stagered starts in the locality to reduce the peak switching effect of white meter. Economy 10 is a varation on the economy 7 concept with day time bosts for the cold climetes like scotland.

Modern flats I have seen been wrired for tri-tariff rates supply the cheapest only to the heating circuits this fits a plan that has the heating at a seperate rate from the day and night cycles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.1.62.136 (talk) 20:44, 13 September 2011 (UTC)