Talk:Dom Juan

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Trology

"Dom Juan" is the last part in Molière's hypocrisy trilogy, which also includes The School for Wives and Tartuffe.

I do not understand this. Why is L'école des femmes part of the hypocrisy trilogy and which author spoke about hypocrisy trilogy. I'm literature student, but I never heard about it and it doesn't seem logical, L'école des femmes is not about hypocrisy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.110.206.17 (talk) 07:36, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Comment

Not being a litterature expert myself, but being spanish and with good knowledge of the french culture I find this Dom Juan/Don Juan explanation a bit funny. As far as I know, "Don" comes from "dominus" as much as Dom, Moliere seems to have merely translated the spanish Don. Had the spanish title been "El señor Juan", would you find "Monsieur Juan" a provocative translation ?

'Freds's indignation'- Plot Summary

I think this is a mistake. Is the text refering to Sganarelle?

Omissions in plot summary

The plot summary needs work.

Midway through, the plot summary says "Dom Juan and Sganarelle come across the tomb of the Commandant that Dom Juan killed". This killing has not been mentioned in the summary before, though one would think it would be the worst of his crimes. CharlesTheBold (talk) 21:36, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

references

I deleted the first reference, because the pdf-file linked to doesn't exist anymore. --80.153.190.96 (talk) 21:26, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

You should just tag with {{dead link}} so that other editors can look for it. Jezhotwells (talk) 17:40, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Dom Juan/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

'Freds's indignation'- Plot summary I think this is a mistake. Is the text refering to Sganarelle?

Last edited at 18:13, 11 January 2009 (UTC). Substituted at 13:35, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

Errors

I have been looking at the (very detailed) French Wikipage devoted to the play, and it's clear that this English page is riddled with errors. The play did not have a one-night run at its premiere; it was not a "costly failure". I urge the editors to consult the French page in question and revise the English one accordingly. Beebuk 14:21, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Donna Elvira or Done Elvire?

This article has previously used a mixture of styles for the character Donna Elvira / Done Elvire. This recent edit standardised spelling as "Donna Elvira". Is this the right way to go? There's a distinction to be made, which is respected in the article, between Don Juan and Dom Juan. Shouldn't the same distinction exist between Donna Elvira and Done Elvire? Do English translations tend to maintain Molière's spellings? Jean-de-Nivelle (talk) 16:20, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

@Jean-de-Nivelle I think it is typical in English to use "Don Juan" and "Donna Elvira". Gary Glass (talk) 17:26, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

"Don Juan" is certainly far more common in English than "Dom Juan" in the general corpus, and in fact the same is true in French. It seems to me though that "Dom Juan" (the title of this article) is more logically paired with "Done Elvire" than with "Donna Elvira". Published English language works on Molière seem to take a variety of approaches. This edition has "Don Juan" and "Elvira", while this one has "Dom Juan" and "Elvira", but the majority seem to prefer "Elvire". I'm no Molière scholar though, and I'd be interested to hear other opinions. Jean-de-Nivelle (talk) 20:39, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

@Jean-de-Nivelle I propose sticking with Don Juan and Donna Elvira but show the original Molière spellings (in parentheses) and redirect the "Dom Juan" page to "Don Juan". Gary Glass (talk) 11:48, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Why would you redirect "Dom Juan" to "Don Juan"? They refer to distinct (though related) things: a play by Molière, and a fictional libertine. The issue as I see it is whether this page should use Molière's spellings or some form of translation, and consistency with the page title suggests the former. We may have to wait a long time for other opinions though: this Talk page has almost no traffic. Jean-de-Nivelle (talk) 21:15, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

Le me try to clarify. The page Don Giovanni is about an opera based on the Don Juan legend, but maintains the character names as written by Da Ponte. There's a distinction to be made between Don Giovanni, Da Ponte's character, and Don Juan, the legendary figure. This page is about a play by Molière based on the Don Juan legend, and there's a distinction to be made between Dom Juan, Molière's character, and Don Juan, the legendary figure. Shouldn't the language we use reflect that distinction? Jean-de-Nivelle (talk) 21:24, 20 June 2023 (UTC)

I don't mean point "Dom Juan" to "Don Giovanni". I mean redirect the Moliere spelling "Dom Juan" to something like "Don Juan (Moliere)" (which would have the content of the current "Dom Juan" page but using the typical spellings we've been discussing, "Don Juan" and "Donna Elvira"). Gary Glass (talk) 07:00, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

I was just drawing a parallel between "Dom Juan" and "Don Giovanni", not suggesting a redirect. I feel strongly that the title and character names used by Molière should be the ones we use in the article, since there's little consistency in published English language translations. I'd oppose moving "Dom Juan" to ""Don Juan (Molière)" for the same reason. But I can see we're unlikely to agree on either point. Jean-de-Nivelle (talk) 13:39, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

@Jean-de-Nivelle I don't see the advantage aside from pedantry to using Molière's Old French spellings. Nobody but a French scholar is going to care, and they're going to look at the French wiki anyway. Meanwhile we'll be excluding the terms "Don Juan" and "Donna Elvira" from search results on the English wiki. Take a look at the hits on the wiki search page for "Don Juan". There's a number of works from different languages in the results. Why wouldn't we want Moliere's play to show up there? Gary Glass (talk) 16:34, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

I wouldn't call pedantry an advantage - but accuracy is, and this is an encyclopaedia. I'm not a French scholar, but I care about accuracy and consistency, and while I can and do read French wikipedia, I'm more at home here. I'd support creating "Don Juan (Molière)" as a redirect to "Dom Juan" to aid searching, but "Dom Juan" is already listed at "Don Juan (disambiguation)". Would a Request for Comment be helpful in resolving this? Jean-de-Nivelle (talk) 12:46, 22 June 2023 (UTC)