Talk:Dimethylglycine

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Untitled[edit]

This "chemical" (amino acid) has been known to be effective in treating autism. Please use a search engine for autism treatment using DMG as it is also known. It is also lesser known as N-Dimethylglycine.

Yes, it is, as is TMG, NAC, various amino acids, chelation, etc, etc. Unfortunately, it is also 'controversial', 'unproven' (only because the powers that be will not do the proper studies on it - this even applies when criticizing studies proposed by the NIH - "Fringe autism treatment could get federal study", Carla Clark - an NIH study on chelation criticized when chelation is 'unproven' - EVERYTHING was 'unproven' at one time or another..) There may or may not be good enough references on it in the journals. Given this, good luck getting something on Wikipedia that won't get reverted back by the local 'proof-hounds' (Pharma Whores? Biostitutes?), or their rumored auto-edit bots..

(I didn't write either of the above). The link above no longer works I'm afraid. I don't know what became of the NIH study, but the "Autism Research Institute" website carries a lot of data on this use of DMG. By the way what has Krebs got to do with it?Wombat140 (talk) 18:53, 25 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Autism treatment[edit]

"It is also sometimes given to individuals with autism, however there is no evidence for any beneficial effects."

I've been taking DMG for autism for 10 years. It works amazingly. My parents found it at our local hippie healthfood store when I was 8a old. If I go off it I have trouble thinking clearly and have fits of rage. There's a young boy in my church who takes it for autism with pretty much the same result. 192.197.54.33 (talk) 23:26, 14 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The use of glycine and perhaps LY2140023 for treatment of schizophrenia should be of some interest, as autism and schizophrenia show some genetic evidence of being opposite ends of a spectrum. It makes me wonder whether methylglycines could work as simple inhibitors of glycine in neural signalling. Wnt (talk) 07:51, 31 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Preparation - Dubious[edit]

First what do you mean by (The hydrochloride is prepared) by this method. Where do the chloride ions come from in this scheme??. Second I Highly doubt, nay Totally disbelieve, that anyone would use silver oxide to neutralize any acidic amino-acid salt as a means of large scale production.--122.111.241.118 (talk) 09:18, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It appears that the described preparation is 'lab scale', which is indeed confusing since the beginning of the section seems industrial. Maybe you could find how this is done on industrial scale (I'm with you, that it is very unlikely that Ag2O is used there).

Regarding the hydrochloride, I presume (I did not check the paper) HCl is used somewhere in the work-up. Could use some clarification as well, indeed. Maybe you'd like to rewrite it? --Dirk Beetstra ^{T C} 11:02, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Read the paper. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 14:06, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If you could please provide a link to (or in some other way provide) the 1933 article (or excerpt from), so I do not need to purchase it, I would read it, but it still wont furnish the Chloride ions for your reaction scheme. If not could you at least explain the advantage gained in the use of silver oxide over a cheaper more readily available base (ease of separation from product, and then regeneration perhaps?) it does seem peculiar.(BTW, I started this discussion - now I'am registered)--OneMadScientist (talk) 16:01, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Based on your feedback, I have edited the article to mention the use of HCl. The route described in our article is as was described by Clarke. Perhaps you can access the article via your local library.

This route is one of the literature methods of preparing this compound (evidently, on a small scale). I've not found industrial routes to this compound; if you know of any, please edit the article accordingly. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 16:40, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

How about this -its just a patent 1990 I dont know if its used comercially. and I was not allowed to post the link

A process for synthetically producing N,N-Dimethyl Glycine, commonly referred to as DMG, through the neutralization of N,N-dimethyl glycine sodium salt with sulfuric acid wherein the N,N-dimethyl glycine sodium salt is prepared by reacting formaldehyde, sodium bisulfite, dimethyl amine, and sodium cyanide followed by agitation with caustic soda beads. Through the preparation and intermediate steam distillation and isolation of N,N-Dimethylamino acetonitrile. The nitrile solution is subjected to caustic hydrolysis then is subsequently neutralized leaving DMG in methanol extraction solvent. The methanol is removed in an azeotropic distillation step to produce DMG in a high yield, low cost and excellent quality

.--OneMadScientist (talk) 17:21, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I came across several patents too, but I did not incorporate those syntheses in our article because I don't know if they are used industrially. Patents are generally not preferred sources for our purposes because they tend to be vaguely worded. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 17:33, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Read this from said patent

DESCRIPTION OF THE PRIOR ART N,N-dimethyl glycine has previously been synthesized utilizing monochloro acetic acid (A) as a starting material. Treatment of monochloro acetic acid (A) with aqueous dimethyl amine followed by hydrochloric acid yields N,N-dimethyl glycine as its hydrochloride salt. ##STR1## The yield of quality product by this method is 50%. The N,N-dimethyl glycine hydrochloride salt (B) is then converted to its free base form (C) through the use of expensive ion exchange resins which must be periodically replaced. ##STR2##--OneMadScientist (talk) 17:38, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This seems somewhat weird to me I will look into this more when I get a chance.--OneMadScientist (talk) 17:42, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

OMS: "... alkalation [sic] of glycine, avoiding overalkylation" sounds clumsy and redundant. I assume you mean "performed" in the last sentence of that paragraph? --Rifleman 82 (talk) 21:08, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Dear sir, you are 100% correct and thus should have changed it, and Sorry I am a hopeless speller. I have not looked into this area any more at all yet or even really thought about it, and was just lazly tinkering with the emphasis etc, sorry. I also thought it was you that wrote that first bit? and also have had the same thought. Please forgive my mistakes. I am far from perfect and also am unsure as to your OMS statment intent. --122.111.241.118 (talk) 05:19, 11 May 2013 (UTC) Me --OneMadScientist ([[User talk:O OneMadScientist|talk]]) 06:50, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I would also like to, and should have eariler, sincerely apologize for any rude, disrespectful and arrogant comments I have made toward you Rifleman82, and can only say that I was lashing out, out of extreme frustration, at my perceived attackers, SORRY PLEASE FORGIVE ME.--OneMadScientist (talk) 06:50, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It appears I have inadvertently mangled your initial wording, sorry. I was/am very tired and sick, and am not functioning well. I have removed the statement (it is somewhat redundant) and fixed spelling. Please add back and reword as you see fit.

After all I have had to endure here (re cypenamine)!!!!, OMS = (Oh my science??) - Is a bit of a inappropriately applied sentiment for describing the (not so eloquent wording and spelling mistakes) that was the result of my addition of the (very obviously intended word) alkylation etc, which is a grammar/spelling issue but does not in any way effect a change to the meaning of the science related statement that you initially wrote), Don't you agree???? You are in effect saying that your own statment was redundant and OMSing ME??--OneMadScientist (talk) 12:56, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The point of the Eschweiler-Clarke synthesis is to avoid overalkylation, unlike using methyl iodide or similar. The reaction stops at the tertiary amine without going all the way to the quat. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 15:56, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Durrr..??? - OMS!! Do you really believe you needed to explain that to me?? (What ever gave you that idea??).Put that directly in the article if you like - AS I SAID. I thought we both had concurred that it was redundant Due to the (prepared via the Eschweiler-Clarke synthesis) linked reaction. I fail to see any point to this comment you have made to me. Or Again What were/are you "trying" to say. So as it appears all my previous words were lost on you, Shall we start again positively and constructively??.--OneMadScientist (talk) 04:42, 12 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I will turn my full attention to this soon (hopefully) in the most positive and constructive way I am able, but not today. Peace--OneMadScientist (talk) 10:20, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

(Just off the top of my head) It appears to me that there is an issue with the isolation/purification of the free form amino acid from reaction mixtures etc requiring more complex than I would have expected techniques but this may only be an issue for producing ultra high purity pharma quality product???.--OneMadScientist (talk) 10:41, 11 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]