Talk:Der Klassiker

Germany: Munich Low‑importance

	Germany portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Germany on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GermanyWikipedia:WikiProject GermanyTemplate:WikiProject GermanyGermany articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Munich.

Football: Germany / Bayern Munich Low‑importance

	Association football portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Football, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Association football on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FootballWikipedia:WikiProject FootballTemplate:WikiProject Footballfootball articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the German football task force (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by the Bayern Munich task force (assessed as Low-importance).

Bavaria Low‑importance

	Bavaria portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Bavaria, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Bavaria on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BavariaWikipedia:WikiProject BavariaTemplate:WikiProject BavariaBavaria articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Der Klassiker[edit]

Requested Move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Unopposed for over two weeks. Jenks24 (talk) 14:14, 10 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

German Clasico → Der Klassiker – As far as I know the rivalry between BVB and FCB is called Der Klassiker, with sources including FIFA, Bundeliga, and many pundits in football addressing it with the aforementioned name. Sources are as follows. While the term German Clasico is not seen in such respective sources, but more as a reference to (or/and) comparing to the 'El Clasico' in Spain. (Supercup Clash addressed as Supercup Klassiker [1]) (FIFA article reffering to the clash between the teams [2]) (Bundeliga Official Youtube Channel [3]) S1028 (talk) 11:13, 27 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Misleading article[edit]

I believe this whole entry is incredibly misleading. "Der Klassiker" is not a set term for a football match in germany, it can be used to refer to any "classic" matchup. If anything, though, the match Bayern-Mönchengladbach is specifically referred to as that. That matchup also has a much richer history than Bayern-Dortmund.

"German Clasico" is a new term that came into the world in non-german countries, likely caused by the lack of knowledge regarding actual german rivalries. To make it clear: Bayern-Dortmund is NOT, explicitely not, a rivalry. Schalke-Dortmund, Bayern-Gladbach, Hamburg-St.Pauli, Bayern-1860, those are big rivalries of german football. This whole thing here is more of a social media phenomenon than an actual, as perceived by fans of both clubs, rivalry.

I would suggest complete deletion of this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.136.11.199 (talk) 19:54, 31 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. The term "Klassiker" is generally used in Germany to describe a match between old rivals or a derby. It's not precisely fixed to this match between Bayern and Dortmund. There's the possibility that the media has used the term "German classico" ("Deutscher Classico") but this is nothing used in general. I'd guess it's a phrase created by the media to hype the whole event (i.e. "THE most importand match in history EVER").--194.174.73.33 (talk) 07:09, 28 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed again. The term seems to be in use exclusively in the media, and not at all in the general public. As a matter of fact all German football viewers I have encountered expressed disgust at the uber-hype the media attempt to build around this matchup. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.68.175.13 (talk) 22:56, 3 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, and even in the German media its use is infrequent and inconsistent. I don't see the point for an encyclopedic article for each term some journalists might use (and only seldomly) to generate hype.79.250.9.200 (talk) 12:56, 22 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Complete agreement with everything said before. Why is this article not AfD? OdinFK (talk) 20:10, 23 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

One more agreement, reading the following is HORRIBLE: "to any official match between Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund" That's absolutely wrong. The term has only been existing for 4 years deriving from the hype about the CL final 2013. 10 years ago that match-up would have been Bayern München–Werder Bremen. However, I only know two special match-ups with Bayern: While Bayern München–Borussia Mönchengladbach, being the first big teams in Bundesliga history, has actually often been called "Klassiker" by many journalists for decades, no matter how bad Gladbach might be at that moment in the past, and while Bayern München-Hamburger SV is usually called Nord-Süd-Gipfel (North South "summit"), the match against Dortmund doesn't have any tradition. (Okay, I maybe have another one, the Bavarian franconian derby between Bayern and Nürnberg, even that unimportant match has more history.) Nobody will care about it if Dortmund has a horrible season like the 2014/15 one. The only semi-valid term that ZDF usually uses when they advertise the match with Dortmund und Bayern in free TV, might be Gipfel der Giganten ("Summit" of the Giants). However, that is no special name but only characterizing it.

Most Dortmund fans would rather want to see Bayern Munich win 10 consecutive championships than only one for Schalke, their archrivals. Actually, Dortmund–Schalke (Revierderby) is considered the most important derby in Bundesliga history. The second most important derby would be the North Derby between Hamburg–Bremen. Besides, the by far most played German derby is the Frankenderby between Nürnberg–Fürth but not so important because Fürth needed 50 years to qualify the first time for the Bundesliga. Bayern, however, just has no real rival in Germany and no regular derby. Even the Real Madrid Bestia negra thing is far more important than the so called "German Classico", which has no history and is only used to make money in Asia. --SamWinchester000 (talk) 07:58, 17 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@SamWinchester000: I definitely agree, I believe that the article either be entirely reworked or deleted/redirected. It is very misleading about a nonexistent rivalry, with the term only being used in recent years. Do you suggest taking it to AfD? S.A. Julio (talk) 13:55, 17 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've been brave and added to the article that the use of the term "Der Klassiker" to refer specifically to the Bayern-Dortmund match is something done by the non-German media, whereas within Germany itself can refer to any match with sufficient history. I wonder how long this (correct) clarification will survive... 86.139.189.159 (talk) 14:00, 29 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Bundesliga itself uses the name Klassiker, so it's actually false to say that only non-german media uses it. The criticism of the term is also already explained in the lead. IronMaximus (talk) 06:27, 30 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion/hatnote[edit]

Hi, I have added hatnotes to the article as per this discussion. I believe there is a sufficient rivalry between these teams to merit an article, but the article itself needs a lot of improvement to justify its existence and make it worth reading. I would also support a renaming to something like "Borussia Dortmund–FC Bayern Munich rivalry" possibly with a ridirect at Der Klassiker. The name is an invention of the media to sell more advertising and TV subscription for the fixture by overplaying its importance, so we shouldn't encourage it really.Crowsus (talk) 12:49, 27 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]