Talk:David Oei

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Musicians

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians.
	An editor has requested that an image or photograph be added to this article.

Classical music

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical music, which aims to improve, expand, copy edit, and maintain all articles related to classical music, that are not covered by other classical music related projects. Please read the guidelines for writing and maintaining articles. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page for more details.Classical musicWikipedia:WikiProject Classical musicTemplate:WikiProject Classical musicClassical music articles

United States: Asian Americans Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Asian Americans (assessed as Low-importance).

Hong Kong Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hong Kong, a project to coordinate efforts in improving all Hong Kong-related articles. If you would like to help improve this and other Hong Kong-related articles, you are invited to join this project.Hong KongWikipedia:WikiProject Hong KongTemplate:WikiProject Hong KongHong Kong articles

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Hong Kong To-do:

Attention needed (60)

...needing expert attention (4) • ...without infoboxes (25)

Collaboration needed

Recommend topic

Improvement needed

GA-Class articles (58) • B-Class articles (284)

Cleanup needed

C-Class articles (996)

Image needed (344)

Destub needed

Start-Class articles (5,345) • Stub-Class articles (6,667)

Deorphan needed

...orphans

Page creation needed

Requested articles

Miscellaneous tasks

...maintain popularity • ...assess the un-Class (399) • ...assess the un-Importance (1,248)

China

	China portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject China, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of China related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChinaWikipedia:WikiProject ChinaTemplate:WikiProject ChinaChina-related articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Surname[edit]

Is his Chinese surname 黃, 韦, or 卫, or something else? And does he have a Chinese given (first) name? Badagnani 07:34, 16 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's the first one. It's actually Wong spelled Oei. davidoei.weebly.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.115.222.103 (talk) 02:27, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Is that a Cantonese-language pronunciation? Standard Cantonese (Guangzhou dialect) is supposed to be "Wong4." Badagnani (talk) 04:16, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's from the Amoy province. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.59.7.139 (talk) 17:25, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You mean that your ancestors came from Xiamen, in the Fujian province, before settling in Hong Kong? If so, that would mean that the language they spoke was the Amoy dialect, which is a mixture of the Quanzhou and Zhangzhou dialects of Hokkien (Min Nan). Badagnani (talk) 18:44, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There is a given first name. How can one send Chinese characters? (Carlylewines (talk) 17:46, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You may use this website to look up the characters, then copy and paste them here. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Index:Chinese_radical Badagnani (talk) 18:44, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

My surname Oei is pronounced Wee (as in bee, see, etc.) It's the closest approximation of my native southern Fujian dialect. The biography of my great grandfather Oei Tjoe confirms this and for 14 years touring with The Intimate P.D.Q. Bach I was introduced loudly as David Wee. 173.115.88.213 (talk) 03:35, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Just glanced at my history page and realized there's an editor out there deleting and disputing the pronounciation of my name. This is LUDICROUS!!!! I AM DAVID OEI AND MY NAME IS PRONOUNCED WEE. Are you telling me how my name should be pronounced? 173.101.129.90 (talk) 22:47, 19 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

One of the P.D.Q. Bach albums has Peter Schickele announcing David Oei's name pronounced as "David Wee" (he further states that he holds a "black belt in piano" and that although he is from Hong Kong he has "performed on both sides of...Interstate 80." Badagnani (talk) 16:44, 20 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

U.S. citizenship[edit]

Is he a U.S. citizen and, if so, in what year did he obtain U.S. citizenship? Badagnani (talk) 05:47, 15 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am a citizen. Will have to look up the year. Thanks for everythig. How can I send a photo to you? davidoei.weebly.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.115.222.103 (talk) 02:25, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry to ask such a personal question, but it helps to categorize the article (we already have you in Category:Chinese Americans from Hong Kong, which is accurate). I assume your whole family moved from Hong Kong when you came to the U.S.? Badagnani (talk) 04:14, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Only my Mom came with me. Brother and Mom now live in SF. Relatives mostly in Hong Kong and around the globe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.59.7.139 (talk) 17:29, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Your life has been a real odyssey. Badagnani (talk) 18:50, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Linkspam[edit]

Regarding [1] and other edits on this same information: This is nothing more that a link to a site created by Oei's wife about herself. It's not being used as a source, but rather was added to promote her website. --Ronz (talk) 01:18, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I had requested such a link only because my wife was linked erroneously to Eriko Sato the model/actress. It was only to clarify and prove that my wife was not the model/actress but indeed Eriko Sato the violinist. She's a totally successful individual and certainly needs no promotion from my article so I have absolutely no problem with this decision. That cannot be said for the other deletions made by different editors as explained further below. Finally remembered to sign my post.(72.60.23.88 (talk) 16:43, 21 April 2009 (UTC))[reply]

I'm sure we can find a reference that meets WP:RS if this confusion needs such clarification. --Ronz (talk) 16:51, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/10/11/nyregion/music-dawn-upshaw-in-recital-at-sarah-lawrence.html mentions Oei and Sato as husband and wife. --Ronz (talk) 17:00, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the trouble of finding this link. It is appreciated.(Carlylewines (talk) 00:15, 22 April 2009 (UTC))[reply]

Glad I could help. Sorry about the drama that's occurred in response to my trying to fix this. --Ronz (talk) 00:24, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No problem at all. The mistakes I've made on this article are only due to ignorance and computer ineptitude and not due to contempt. On the other hand it is a very unenviable position to be in as the subject of an article where truth is replaced by verifiability. I know Badagnani has no other thought than to make this a top quality article and I sincerely hope that we can all work together toward that end. Otherwise this article is useless to me and useless to Wikipedia. (Carlylewines (talk) 18:01, 23 April 2009 (UTC))[reply]

Advertisement[edit]

Regarding [2] and other edits on this same information: Given that Oei no longer owns this shop, and no sources have been provided that show how his past ownership of this shop is an important part of Oei's life, I've removed it as overly promotional for the shop itself. --Ronz (talk) 01:21, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There is no advertisement, as such is not permitted at Wikipedia. What there was was insistent and repeated deletion, quite against consensus, of important content and sourcing--something that has become a hallmark of the above editor (in addition to WP:STALK, in which he has engaged for months, and continues to engage in to this very day). Kindly cease insistently removing, against consensus, important, sourced data from our articles. The shop's ownership was clearly sourced, quite properly, by this source, which was removed again and again quite against consensus. Please restore it. Badagnani (talk) 02:14, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

For one thing, Badagnani, please don't engage in personal attacks and baseless threats. Second of all, directories and blatant ads don't count as sources and have no place in an article. Therefore it should stay removed. There does not have to be consensus for every single thing that is removed; rather, it should be for questionable items that are added. WP:BRD, WP:OWN and WP:DRNC apply here quite nicely. GraYoshi2x►^talk 02:42, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

For editors new to these problems, Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Badagnani includes documentation of many similar issues. --Ronz (talk) 02:59, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm curious how the inclusion of a store that completely occupied my life for 10 years can be considered promotional material when that store was closed FOREVER by me back in 2004. How can it be promotional material when the store no longer exist? Please explain to me what the benefits are with this PROMOTION. 173.114.8.111 (talk) 03:53, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe to promote the shop with the same name that currently exists? Who cares? It's irrelevant. Until we have a source that demonstrates otherwise, It's of no importance to Oei's life. See WP:UNDUE. --Ronz (talk) 16:49, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

On the contrary, it is of fundamental importance to an encyclopedic coverage of this individual's life. Mentioning it in a single sentence does not promote it any more than we are trying to promote Pepsi by lovingly documenting this currently-sold beverage, produced and marketed by PepsiCo, about which we also have an article. Finally, I believe the editor insisting on removing text, as seems to be his primary interest at Wikipedia, found this article via WP:STALK, which is a very big no-no at our project, in fact against our policy. Badagnani (talk) 18:31, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've requested help at Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view/Noticeboard#David_Oei.27s_former_wine_shop --Ronz (talk) 01:18, 22 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This info about the store was initially written by the editor who created this article. He's responsible for nearly all the info on that page. Since I discovered the page I've made a couple of corrections and very small additions to the article, not knowing how the system works. Now that I understand the system better I shall never edit again. I did not figure out that I needed an account to do that and therefore the unsigned edits. Since I've open the account as Carlylewines I've also neglected to sign my post properly at times. That being said, I don't claim to be David Oei, I AM David Oei. 421 West 57th St. NYC 212-489-6039. This store was opened by me on June 16th, 1994 and closed by me on June 31st, 2004. Ninety percent of my energies went into this store during that time although I managed to continue part-time in my musical life. Carlylewines didn't exist before me and it died with me. There are no other wine stores with that name that I know of. I will totally abide by the ruling on this issue and I thank user Ronz for going this route, but no one will convince me that 10 years of my life, a quarter of my adult life, is not critical to my life story. (Carlylewines (talk) 16:34, 22 April 2009 (UTC))[reply]

Sorry, the dates are Dec. 16th, 1994-June 30th, 2004. (Carlylewines (talk) 16:45, 22 April 2009 (UTC))[reply]

Carlyle Wines was chosen to be included in the inaugural issue (Nov. 1999) of 'America's Elite 1000-The Ultimate List- Millenium Issue-The Inside Story Behind America's top 1000 names' by Cadogan Publications Ltd. of UK fame. On page 80 you will find the following description of Carlyle Wines. "Kevin Bacon is a regular customer at this smart little wine store, which boasts an impressive array of wines, brandies and spirits. Each bottle has been personally selected by proprietor David Oei, whose expertise and commitment to service make this a must stop destination for wine lovers. The store is particularly strong on burgundies, which is unusual for New York. Woody Allen and Sharon Stone are also frequent customers." (Carlylewines (talk) 05:01, 23 April 2009 (UTC)) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Carlylewines (talk • contribs)

I found this bio from the Notice board posting. Advertisements are considered a form of self publishing so they are generally not allowed. Why not just use a better secondary source? In this NY Times article from 1999, [3] Oei discussing the shop's preference for Campogrande. He sounds like a very hands on proprietor.--Eudemis (talk) 00:45, 24 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'd found the same article, but decided against it because it's such a brief mention. --Ronz (talk) 20:12, 24 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've gone ahead and removed the material. While it may personally be important to Oei, we have no sources showing this. --Ronz (talk) 23:02, 14 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Protection rights and the joys? of Wikipedia[edit]

When my friend told me I was in the Wikipedia I was stunned. I couldn't believe someone would find my life interesting enough to write an article about me. To this end I will always feel tremendously humbled and privileged. Since then the backsniping and the disputing of facts of my life have soured this honor noticeably. It completely boggles my mind that there are strangers out there deciding what my life is about and even having the unmentionable gall to decide how my name should be pronounced. My life is not something you can play around with, just as I would never do that to somebody else. It's a simple life that touched someone enough to create this article and I will forever be grateful to him. But if this continues I must request that this article be removed forever. This time I actually remembered to log in and sign. And for the last time, this is David Oei, pronounced Wee. (Carlylewines (talk) 17:02, 21 April 2009 (UTC))[reply]

User:Ronz, kindly stop pushing, pushing, pushing, until the subject of a WP biography, a distinguished concert pianist, no longer wishes to have his biography at our encyclopedia. The fact that this has nearly occurred means that something is very wrong. Please check yourself and think if what you are doing (insistent blanking without consensus), not only here but at dozens of pages, nearly 100 located via WP:STALK. This is simply behavior alien to our fundamentally collaborative, constructive, and collegial project. I ask in all sincerity that you contribute to our project in a manner in line with our founders' vision, always maintaining this all-important sense of collegiality and thoughtfulness, eschewing any form of aggression in one's editing. Badagnani (talk) 18:45, 21 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's a great comment to make if you want Ronz to do the opposite of what you ask. If you want him to do what you ask, a different approach would be the intelligent choice. Your post here is not likely to produce a resolution. Do you understand? -GTBacchus^(talk) 22:34, 11 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV[edit]

I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:

This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:

There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.

Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 00:27, 27 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]