Talk:Colonel (Mega Man)

History

Current edit war over this piece of section:

"Colonel was developed by Repliforce scientists as half of the perfect fighting Reploid. Iris, his sister, was the other half. His half was of the strong-willed fighter, and Iris' was of the peaceful arbitrator. Repliforce scientists had struggled to make these two factors into one Reploid, but the differences were irreconcilable, so they split them into brother and sister Reploids."

I recieved this from the viable Megaman Network, an fan-site specializing in overanalysis. Thier profiles and analytical summeries are very proffesional, taken from official Capcom source booklets that depict information not shown in game. This was likwise done with the Mega Man Zero series articles, depicting information never gained from the vide games (such as Elpizo's model number). Excellent stuff. It leds to an complete analysis, and fills in a lovely amount of plot holes and unanswered questions.

I think it would be waste of both our times because the difference of opinion is tightly circumscribed and so is our available time. This is a viable source, and I can't imagine a circumstance in which a established editor such as myself would engage in the input of flasified information or fan-fic. As a long-time contributor [1], I know what is and what is not veritible. I dont' insert information which brings the encyclopedia into disrepute.

Now as for my alleged "fan-fics" insertion (things which I dislike with a passion) You can call me what you like--for now, while I'm happy. Just please don't vandalize the articles. Because then we have to inquire for article protection. I really wouldn't like to ask for that. -Zero^Talk 20:18, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Colonel in MegaMan Battle Network

I need a bio for this BN fellow. Can I ask someone to write one up..? I haven't played the fith iteration, so I'm ignorant of details. -Zero^Talk 15:20, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

After a bit of research on the storyline, I've written a small thesis. It needs expansion, however, as I'm not keen on plot details. -Zero^Talk 15:34, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Fake history

Stop posting the fake /fanfic story of Iris and Colonel. They were NOT seperated into brother and sister. it's NOWHERE stated....it's fake, it's fanfic. Your provided source is not working either and even then, that site still doesn't have a real source, because IT'S WRONG. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BIG (talk • contribs)

It is incorrect because you say it is..? Or is it incorrect just because you don't belive it..? I'm sorry, but we have to agree to differ here. Fanfic is nonsense, trivia. There's nothing amiss in the source of information provided. Please cease this vandalism on this article. -Zero^Talk 04:44, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

It's incorrect because it isn't official, it isn't mentioned in the guide books or in the game OR on capcoms website. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BIG (talk • contribs)

I stress again, that everything isn't in the game, and official sites don't devulge any worthy plot information anyway. It is in the official sourcebooks. The ones I have are in Japanese; I'm not certain if they have english editions. Regardless, I have a source at my fingertips, and I would not logically be a long-time contributor if I engaged in such things. I'll thank you to stop this vandalism, less you be blocked.-Zero^Talk 10:44, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

No you don't have the source books, because they don't exist, you didn't show one proof yet and still insist that it is true. Stop posting lies here.

Guess what? I got a japanese sourcebook which says Colonel is the cousin of the General. Proof? www.megamannetwork.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by BIG (talk • contribs)

Now settle down and behave yourself. I've no reason to construct fabrications. -Zero^Talk 12:31, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

It's in the sourcebook, to the best of my knowlege. Also, this brother/sister connection was carried over into the EXE world in EXE6, where Colonel.EXE and Iris.EXE are siblings. It's completely legitimate. So don't whine.--LordHuffNPuff 13:44, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

You know that the network series and x series have nothing to do with each other? Stop BSing. It's not true to the X-series and you don't provide proof either. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BIG (talk • contribs)

Frankly, you're just on the edge of trolling now. "Stop BSing"? I'm advocating that we simply ask ourselves weather or not this piece of information is contridicted by anything and thus should perhaps be avoided. I have no idea why you're reacting with such hysteria. -Zero^Talk 18:18, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Better idea: both of you give sources/images/scans whatever, get a third party to judge it. Don't make any more personal attacks. Both of you are at fault here, cease the edit war immediatly. - Zero1328 23:14, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

I cannot possibly cease the removal of vandalism. You're well aware of the fact that the MMN's server's have gone down and their resources and bios are not presently avalible. I've made no personal attacks. Please dont' make blantently false statements. -Zero^Talk 07:14, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I was referring to BIG when I was talking about the personal attacks. Both of you are at fault, because you've both defied the Three revert rule, and you're edit warring. Even if the intention is good.. try to think of the best solution. You had a problem getting the page protected a few days ago, but there are ways of getting immediate contact with an admin if it's getting out of hand. - Zero1328 09:47, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

This forum thread[[2]] may be sufficient enough. Although it's technically original research, It's from an official source. Do you think waiting for a response from BIG before we can safely unprotect the article is a good idea or not? If there's no response in a few days, just go ahead.. - Zero1328 13:22, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I thinks its legit. However, I doubt BIG's mindset has changed, so I request we gain a concensus on this before unprotection. -Zero^Talk 14:09, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Message boards aren't valid sources. Please read WP:CITE, WP:RS and WP:V for proper sources Here is a FAQ which also tells the story described in a reliable source THE ACTUAL GAME. You can scroll down to the part about the Iris boss fight , which says that colonel is her brother. Nothing about the "THERE WERE PROGRAMMED AS ONE AND THEN GOT SPLIT INTO BROTHER AND SISTER". http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/psx/file/megaman_x4_d.txt -—Preceding unsigned comment added by BIG (talk • contribs)

Oh the edvidence is there. You're simply trolling a bit now. If you really would favor to resolve this, please discuss it on a guideline page. You've done absolutlely nothing but refute claims about a subject you know little about. And please turn off caps lock. -Zero^Talk 02:27, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

You do realise BIG, direct linking to GameFAQs is blocked? For any interested people, the guide BIG is referring to is the walkthrough by Reeve.[[3]] - Zero1328 08:30, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

I know the EXE and X series are not directly related, however, the relationship between these characters was carried over into EXE in this specific instance. And that's what counts.--LordHuffNPuff 12:15, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Outside view

I've looked through the edit history of this article and talk page, as well as the provided links. Every edit I've seen by Megaman (speaking in general here) has been good (well, except for his English), and given that there are nigh past 8000 of them, I consider the onus or burden of proof to lay upon anyone challenging the veracity of his edits, and BIG has manifestly not met that burden, merely attacking with an argument from silence, even when Megaman vouches for it and even when a number of other people as competent in this area vouch for it as well. He has made no solid arguments against them. In short, I think that unless BIG can come up with some solid negative evidence (and not merely, as I have noted, arguments from silence), his actions are little but removal of valid content, and vandalism. --maru (talk) contribs 05:15, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Sourcebook Proof, and other addressings

Unfortunately for BIG, Megaman Zero's claims are each and every bit correct, thanks to sourcebook info. Allow me to cite MegaMan Network in this affair:
MegaMan X4 Analysis
Character Bio: Colonel
Character Bio: Iris

The information contained in the links can be easily and readily found in the Rockman X4 X to Z Kouryaku File (ISBN 4063292932), which can be seen (unfortunately, only in japanese) here and here, and can be acquired here.

So please, BIG, do us all a favor, and YOU stop BSing.
DominicanZero 05:58, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Nice work Dominican, The thought of using the Internet Archive never occured to me. Also, BIG, if you read my message with the link to the thread, you would have noticed that I said it was "technically original research, but from an official source." The thread itself mentioned and provided a prior translation of the sourcebook.. but Dominican's link justifies it very well also. I'm well aware of the Wikipedia rules myself. - Zero1328 08:24, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, positively excellent work, Dominican. My only dissapointment is how such a immense duraration of time it took to prove valid information to a troll. -Zero^Talk 10:59, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

In my opinion, the EXE/X connection should have been enough. I guess some people need to be hit over the head with things.--LordHuffNPuff 12:17, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

You know what? I don't care anymore if you are spreading BS. It's a lie and it's not stated in the games, "Rockman X4 X to Z Kouryaku File" is not reliable source, it's a fanfic book and it's not canon. CANON IS THE STUFF THAT HAPPENS IN THE GAME AND WHAT IS STATED IN THE MANUAL OF X4. Well, believe what you want you ignorant people, you are whoring about this like your life was depending on it. Get a life. -—Preceding unsigned comment added by BIG (talk • contribs)

I'm not bothered, really. Things have just gone so silly I don't want to add to the noise by making something of that personal attack. -Zero^Talk 14:58, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

You know what's your problem, BIG? The fact that you can't accept that other people might be right about something. Unfortunately for you, the Rockman X To Z Kouryaku File was published and written by Capcom staff, and is officially endorsed and backed up by Capcom, which makes it more than solid canonical proof. The fact that YOU cannot accept that just shows your immaturity.

Guys, go ahead and publish the information. I'm contacting someone to see if I can get the Kouryaku book scanned in the appropriate pages and post links to them here, with the proper translations for each. As soon as I have news of it, I'll be posting here.

DominicanZero 15:28, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Since it appears that BIG doesn't care anymore about the edit war, I'm putting up a request for unprotection. Also, go see Expanded Universe (Star Wars) for an example that things outside the original official stuff, can be canon. - Zero1328 22:36, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

It's like the Resident Evil books, they are licensed by Capcom but they are still not canon and never will be. It's the same with your sourcebook, it's not in the game --> it's not canon. You are wrong and you know it, still you are so arrogant and love to publish fanfic stuff. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BIG (talk • contribs)

Please, I stress to you, no personal attacks. Don't make accusations on people, that message has sarcasm and personal attack written all over it. You have stated that you do not care about the paragraph anymore, therefore you should not accuse us of anything, or continue the subject at all, unless you justify it. - Zero1328 07:00, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

It's like the Resident Evil books, they are licensed by Capcom but they are still not canon and never will be. It's the same with your sourcebook, it's not in the game. This should be proof enough. I corrected the text now and I hope you will accept it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BIG (talk • contribs)

You have your facts wrong, my friend. This is a sourcebook detailing storyline aspects outside of the games. What you're referring to is a novel endorsed by Capcom. We're speaking of a referenced book constructed and endorsed by the company that absolutely is canon. -Zero^Talk 11:01, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

No, you are wrong, why do you love to post wrong facts? What's wrong about saying "ACCORDING TO THE SOURCEBOOK, or "IN THE GAME MMX4". You just love to be an *** . —Preceding unsigned comment added by BIG (talk • contribs)

Be serious, dear BIG. Do you have any shread of proof that I'm incorrect...? Despite many sources, you've become very narrow-minded. Are you positive that you're editting in good faith anymore...? I'd like to believe so, but you haven't any sources or supportable facts to prove us wrong. I'm willing to listen here. But all I see is your allegations of the entire Mega Man community (somehow) being liars, despite our months of research and knowledge in the area. -Zero^Talk 13:25, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

http://mmxz.zophar.net/megamanxz/script/MegaManX4.txt

THIS is proof enough, this is from the game, the GAME SCRIPT. There are just brother and sister, nothing else. Not "a reploid who was split into two".—Preceding unsigned comment added by BIG (talk • contribs)

BIG, I asked you to provide proof that contridicts us. First off, that doesn't prove us wrong. It merely establishes you're not as knowledgeable about the series as you percieve yourself. It doesn't prove us wrong, because its the same script wriiten by one of the senior memebers of Megaman Network, who agrees that the sister information is established fact. Anything else..? -Zero^Talk 13:39, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

It's like saying Mega Man is Iris' uncle, see if you can contridicte that. Seriously, it's not stated in the game script, it's not stated in the manual. It's simply wrong.—Preceding unsigned comment added by BIG (talk • contribs)

I'm disgusted with your narrow-mindedness and inability to comprehend correct basis for fact. I've inquired for a block. -Zero^Talk 14:20, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah go ahead with your blocking, continue spreading lies and fan fic. I offered you a compromise and you are not accepting, then please stop posting stuff here. -—Preceding unsigned comment added by BIG (talk • contribs)

You know, I can honestly say that in the 5+ years I've been involved in various parts of the online Mega Man community, BIG is the only person I have ever encountered who simply dismissed the sourcebooks out of hand even after having it explained to him what they were. He clearly wants so badly to be right that no amount of proof that he isn't (and you guys have provided plenty) will ever convince him that he isn't. It's painfully obvious that he has no idea what he's talking about, despite the fact that he thinks he does. -TPIRFanSteve 05:16, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Argh! The dispute is over! Please stop. BIG is at fault for still maintaining his stance, even though he has stepped down from the podium, and MegamanZero's at fault for replying. Wikipedia is supposed to be a community project, so we should discuss the changes, BIG. You've stated that you have given up on your argument, therefore the decision was reached to keep the information. Don't continue the discussion unless for good reason, which, sadly, you don't have any. - Zero1328 07:58, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Are you blind or something? http://mmxz.zophar.net/megamanxz/script/MegaManX4.txt THIS IS THE ****** GAME SCRIPT. please Megaman_zero, I hope you get hit by a car or something, I really despise you for your arrogant behaviour.—Preceding unsigned comment added by BIG (talk • contribs)

I stress, 'no personal attacks'. Please refrain from any further personal attacks. MegamanZero has stated that although it is the game script, it was written by a person who agrees with our stance. Also, he has implied that a mere Game Script doesn't mean that's the single source of information. The Game Script does not prove, nor does it disprove, anything at all. If the problem isn't solved within the next couple of days, I propose a simple vote to end this. - Zero1328 12:14, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

I just thought of a better example of canon stuff outside the original creations, previously I mentioned the Star Wars Expanded Universe, games, novels, etc.. well think about the Drama Tracks on the Remastered_Tracks_Rockman_Zero albums. Telos, for example, has many drama tracks further elaborating on the plot. - Zero1328 12:30, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Its....NOT....IN...THE...OFFICIAL GAME !Don't you get it? This isn't STAR WARS, this is a GAME. THe sourcebook is NOT CANON. EVERYONE CAN MAKE UP STUFF LIKE MEGA MAN IS IRIS' cousin and claiming to have proof like some sort of japanese book. You guys are destroying wikipedia with your lies. Then you want to make a VOTE ? Megaman_Zero will get his NOOB friends from the forum to vote against me because they love to overanalyse things and believe in every NON-CANON Book.—Preceding unsigned comment added by BIG (talk • contribs)

Please, don't use all caps. It's not required at all and it signifies shouting. I will only repeat this one more time: 'no personal attacks'. If you have read my message, I had noted a better example than Star Wars for outside canon stuff: the drama tracks on the Remastered Rockman Zero Tracks. Have you even looked at the forum thread at MMN discussing this?[[4]] If in the chance that MegamanZero collects a group of people to unbalance a vote, one can simply ask for a third party (such as an admin) to see if it is biased. If so, the vote would not count. However, if that group of people has been contributing to the argument constructively, it would not be biased. That is correct, no? - Zero1328 13:01, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

BIG, I don't deny being arrogant, but I always support my claims with supported and correct findings of fact in an addressing of any issue. As I mentioned before, you may call me as you like. But please cease these nonsensical arguments in support of your reverts immediately. -Zero^Talk 13:36, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

You are ignorant.I provided enough proof like the gamescript .

OK, How about adding the lines I made before and we let this topic die?

2 SIMPLE WORDS :

"According to the Sourcebook , Colonel was developed by Repliforce scientists as half of the perfect fighting Reploid. Iris, his sister, was the other half. His half was of the strong-willed fighter, and Iris' was of the peaceful arbitrator. Repliforce scientists had struggled to make these two factors into one Reploid, but the differences were irreconcilable, so they split them into brother and sister Reploids.

In the game Mega Man X4 ,Colonel was later one of the major players of the Repliforce War, and his stubbornness, along with that of the Maverick Hunters,"

But I know you won't accept it because you cry over a litle editing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BIG (talk • contribs)

Because it isn't necessary. There's a lot of Mega Man information that is only known in the West because fans have bought and translated the very-much-canon Sourcebooks; we're not going to go through these articles and tag every such piece of information simply because one misinformed user refuses to acknowledge their canonicity. -TPIRFanSteve 03:57, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

It is necessary. People should know that it comes from a "sourcebook" and that it is non-canon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BIG (talk • contribs)

No it isn't, the source is already cited and that's all that's really needed. It doesn't need to be excessive. It's only a single link, it's not of one of those huge articles that have links everywhere leading to the bottom of the page, containing 20 footnotes. - Zero1328 08:36, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

The source is not reliable. It's not canon, it's not true, it's fanfic.—Preceding unsigned comment added by BIG (talk • contribs)

You're going back to your original statement. Tell me: Why do you believe the source is not reliable? - Zero1328 08:45, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

1. It's just a book, which licensed by Capcom but it doesn't NEED to be FACT. 2. It's not stated in the games. 3. The webpage you provided is simply a fan site which loves to overanalyse things. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BIG (talk • contribs)

Please try to consider signing your messages from now on, it is very hard to keep track of unsigned messages. Although it may be a book, it doesn't need to be fact. Nothing at all, nothing on Wikipedia, doesn't need to be fact. However, it is. I think I don't need to justify that. Many people have stated before that if something is not in the game, doesn't neccesarily mean something that's not true. You seem to have trouble accepting that. The Megaman Network may simply be a fan site, but it's definitely no ordinary one. It's one of the largest out there. Right next to Planet Megaman. Need I say more? - Zero1328 09:30, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes actual proof. It is not fact.—Preceding unsigned comment added by BIG (talk • contribs)

What are you talking about? Saying "It doesn't need to be." is not equivalent to saying "It is not." I was attempting to show some meaning to my words by saying that.. It seems I have failed. - Zero1328 10:13, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

You know, BIG...you don't actually seem to have a case here. Your entire argument appears to be the phrase, "it is not canon, it is fanfic." You keep demanding proof that the Sourcebooks are canon (and ignoring it or illogically dismissing it when it's subsequently provided to you)...but you haven't provided any proof that they aren't. (I have a feeling you think you have, but you actually haven't.)

At any rate, we're obviously never going to convince you that you're wrong, because you don't want to be convinced. Guys, is there a way you can block someone from editing just a single article? 'Cause if there is, it seems like that would be the simplest solution here. -TPIRFanSteve 19:21, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and one other thing that's been bugging me...BIG, you don't get to decide which parts of Mega Man are and aren't canon. Capcom owns the characters and the franchise. They get to decide what's canon; they decided years and years ago to write Sourcebooks that allow them to add to the series's canon, and since they own the franchise, you don't get to dispute it. -TPIRFanSteve

The troll has been blocked for 72 hours for personal attacks and silliness by MONGO. So he's gone a bit silent now. I've made up my mind to take this to the noticeboard, and I'm hopeful that his block will mind him to behave. He is aware he will be blocked if he persists. -Zero^Talk 20:55, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Funny how you call me a troll! Whatever, my point is : you all believe in fanfic and non-canon stuff. Capcom decides what canon is: Canon are the games. There is nothing about this in the game just in some sort of source book. Megaman_Zero YOU need to behave, you are the one crying over some editing. If your articles are so precious then don't post them, either way, you didn't write it yourself, you just STEAL others work and post it here.—Preceding unsigned comment added by BIG (talk • contribs)

Don't see anything humorous about it.

When we challenged your blatent trollery, this was the kind of reply I expected. I've said nowhere that I think I'm upset or crying. I emphasized the factual claims of my approach at the time and this has been respectively supported by other established knowledgeable contributors. And now it's several days later and I'm still taking careful note of your unsupported vandalism. And I'm still here. The impression that I'm engaging in thievery comes solely upon my actions after the fact. If I was, I would have neglected to give credit to the site, and not made complete reference of it. When I start to do something I know of, I also see it through and will (in one way or another) support it with correct obervations and fact. -Zero^Talk 20:01, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

The reason for your blocking is because of your disregard for the Wikipedia rules. You are free to challenge the sourcebook again after the block expires, but start following the rules and I'll treat you more seriously, ok? - Zero1328 _Talk? 21:37, 29 April 2006 (UTC)