Talk:Collectivity of Saint Martin/Archive 1

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Archive 1

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BetacommandBot (talk) 20:26, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Area code

What's the area code for this half of the island? Add it to the info box. Zurqoxn (talk) 15:27, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

"France"

Does the separation of Saint-Martin and Saint-Barthélemy from Guadeloupe (on February 22, 2007) mean that France has gotten smaller? Have its population and land area been reduced accordingly? Backspace 19:49, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

No, both still remain part of France (as overseas collectivities). The number of inhabitants (French population) has not been reduced, but the French Parliament got two new representatives! mx —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.143.85.193 (talk) 21:55, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Daylight Saving Time?

According to the infobox, Saint Martin observes daylight saving time. I seriously doubt whether that is correct.Skysmurf (talk) 09:07, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 12:36, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Saint Martin (France) → Collectivity of Saint Martin — Avoids the need for the less natural "(France)" disambiguator suffix. Cybercobra (talk) 04:43, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

Comment how about Saint Martin, France ? 70.29.210.242 (talk) 10:47, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
'~~Oppose~~'Neutral I'd oppose the current suggestion of Collectivity of Saint Martin because wikipedia rarely uses a country's long name. Saint Martin is used to describe the island as a whole, while Saint Martin (France) is used to describe the French half of the island. I think the current make-up works, but I'd be open to supporting a different qualifier if a good one is suggested.--Labattblueboy (talk) 14:39, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
- Change in position.--Labattblueboy (talk) 03:04, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
Support. The current title is ambiguous and the proposed title is clearer and avoids the parentheses. Ucucha 23:46, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
Support - The most analogous situations are Ireland/Republic of Ireland, Congo/Republic of the Congo/Democratic Republic of the Congo and China/Republic of China/People's Republic of China, along with various historical iterations of states that are generally disambiguated by long names (Federal Republic of Yugoslavia et al.) That suggests to me this move is relatively well-grounded in precedent. The Tom (talk) 23:57, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
Oppose present suggestion "Collectivity of ...." is too obscure and confusing in English, and has only been the correct term since 2003 anyway. Other suggestions might be better, but there is no real problem with the current name. Johnbod (talk) 14:06, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Correct emblem??

Is the emblem shown the correct one? The French wiki shows a different version. Sdrawkcab (talk) 18:52, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 19 February 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Favonian (talk) 22:08, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

– The proposed article titles make it clear which side of the island it is talking about. Since both of those titles translate to Saint Martin in English. Interstellarity (talk) 20:04, 19 February 2022 (UTC)

Oppose moving Sint Maarten. Sint Maarten only means the Dutch side of the island. It doesn't matter if it is translated to Saint Martin in English, because sources refer to it by its Dutch name [1]. Also, "Sint Maarten (Netherlands)" makes it look like there's another article titled "Sint Maarten" in Wikipedia which makes disambiguation necessary, but that's not the case. No comment on the proposed move of the French side of the island. Super Ψ Dro 12:19, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
Strongly oppose moving Sint Maarten to Sint Maarten (Netherlands). My main concern here is that Sint Maarten is a constituent country of the Kingdom of the Netherlands and thus not a part of the Netherlands itself. While "Netherlands" is also the short name for the Kingdom, putting it in parentheses behind the country's name does not do its autonomous constitutional status justice. It's like changing Saint Lucia to Saint Lucia (United Kingdom). In addition, Sint Maarten (Netherlands) would cause confusion with Sint Maarten, Netherlands. There is also no need for disambiguation, since the spelling is different from Saint Martin. — Ætoms ^[talk] 12:56, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
You can’t compare this article to Saint Lucia since it is an independent country. This place is a dependent territory of the Netherlands. Interstellarity (talk) 14:13, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
I agree that the cases are not 100% identical, but what I am trying to say is that Sint Maarten and the Netherlands are formally equal to each other. Sint Maarten is only dependent on the Netherlands when it comes to foreign policy, but other than that has its own government that is completely independent from the Dutch government. They basically only share the same monarch (just like Saint Lucia and the United Kingdom). — Ætoms ^[talk] 14:45, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
Strongly oppose: agreed with reasoning by User:Ætoms. I don't believe there's any confusion about which side of the island is being referred to by the existing titles, and certainly within reading the lede sentences of each article. I feel this proposal comes from a sense of hierarchical organization, and attempts to impose a sense of symmetry on the two parts of the island ((based solely on their national ties), that aren't equivalent (one is a territory, the other is a country). On the French side, there are several French locales that simply "Saint Martin (France)" could be confused with. The current title is unique and requires no disambiguation. On the Dutch side, this would be akin to moving Northern Ireland to Northern Ireland (United Kingdom). It's not necessary. — sbb (talk) 15:33, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

@Sbb: I don’t think Northern Ireland is a good example. The reason it’s not moved to that title is because it doesn’t need disambiguation and is without a doubt the primary topic. This should be moved because there are other Saint Martins in the world like the French side and the whole island. Interstellarity (talk) 18:50, 23 February 2022 (UTC)

Oppose: I think it's unnecessary. Does that mean island of Saba would then need to become "Saba (Netherlands)"?
Oppose. While I'm not sure about the title of the French one, there are too many other Saint-Martins in France for the proposed title to be a good one. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:38, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
Oppose. While there is marginal value to having both sides of this wonderful island in the same format (stating the upside first), it does not nearly cancel out the huge costs in terms of what what we'd be giving up on:

Both names would become unnecessary cluttered with dabs versus the current much better situation of WP:NATURAL.

The Dutch side of Sint Maarten is ~~WP:PRIMARY~~WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and there's insufficient reason to give that up.

While the fairy tale of federalism of the Kingdom of the Netherlands should be taken with more than just a grain of salt (kudos to the nominator if he consciously did!), it is easy to conclude from the reactions above how we would open a new, this time totally unnecessary, front with those apt to accept government decisions and statements at face value. gidonb (talk) 15:22, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

I presume you meant that the Dutch side of Sint Maarten is WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, rather than WP:PRIMARY? =) — sbb (talk) 16:16, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

sbb, fixed. Thank you! gidonb (talk) 18:34, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

For my other proposal on this very topic, see here. gidonb (talk) 20:44, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.