Talk:Colin Powell/Archive 2

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Archive 1 Archive 2

Powell and Plame

His possible role is summed up nicely in this MSNBC piece:

{...} on a long Bush trip to Africa, Fleischer and Bartlett prompted clusters of reporters to look into the bureaucratic origins of the Wilson trip. How did the spin doctors know to cast that lure? One possible explanation: some aides may have read the State Department intel memo, which Powell had brought with him aboard Air Force One. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by RyanFreisling (talk • contribs) 11:12, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Second Highest Ranking Non-Caucasian

Wasn't he the 2nd highest non-white in U.S. History - from everything from the Order of Precedence to the Line of Succession to actual power, the Sec. o. Ste. is techincally the 5th highest ranking member of the U.S. Gov - he/she has more power than any other cabinet member, but are still bellow the Pres. pro tempore, who is bellow House Speaker, who is below (in title not power) the V.P., who is below the presdident. Chief Justice is techinaclly between Speaker and pro tempore, but there have only been black associate justices. He shld have been the 2nd highest black in history at inaugaration time.

Semi-protected edit request on 26 August 2014

Please change "Most observers praised Powell's oratorical skills" to "American news outlets provided favorable coverage of Powell's address, praising his oratorical skills." Please add the following source: *Oddo, John. (2014) Intertextuality and the 24-Hour News Cycle: A Day in the Rhetorical Life of Colin Powell's U.N. Address. East Lansing, MI: Michigan State University Press.


Semi-protected edit request on 16 March 2015

Please change "A 2004 report by the Iraq Survey Group concluded that the evidence that Powell offered to support the allegation that the Iraqi government possessed weapons of mass destruction (WMDs) was inaccurate." to "A 2004 report by the Iraq Survey Group concluded that Saddam Hussien was simpley biding his time until the sanctions were lifted so he could restart his Chemical, Biological and Nuclear weapons programs." [1]

128.237.194.13 (talk) 18:39, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 14:47, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/general-reports-1/iraq_wmd_2004/chap1.html

'first and only' African American to serve on the joint chiefs of staff in lead

Lead says: "He was the first, and so far the only, African American to serve on the Joint Chiefs of Staff," however, Russell C. Davis was the Chief of the National Guard Bureau which is a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff between 1998 and 2002. Better way to put this?― Padenton|✉   07:31, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

No, the article is correct. The CNGB didn't join the JCS until the end of 2011. ~ MD Otley (talk) 18:05, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Political general

According to Norman Schwarzkopf, Max Thurman, Army Vice Chief of Staff and Commander in Chief of Southern Command, also never commanded division was a 4 star general. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.218.9.1 (talk) 18:58, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Trump/ Hilary

I understand we're in the political silly-season and the partisans are out trying to use this article to attack candidates. This is not wise per WP:UNDUE and probably violates WP:NPOV. I'd challenge the hack editors who added that material (@Hidden Tempo and Theatrical harmony:) to create a couple consensus sentences rather than edit war, as you'll likely do. Chris Troutman (talk) 16:43, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

It wasn't my intention to edit in a partisan way. I added the material last night, upon the revelation of Powell's emails where his statements about Donald Trump were widely publicized. I will go back and provide a more nonpartisan edit. I apologize, (@Hidden Tempo and Chris troutman:). (talk) 11:50, 14 September 2016 (CST)

No need to apologize (@Chris troutman and Theatrical harmony:). There are many liberal activist users who will try to revise history and delete anything that doesn't reflect their worldview. Unfortunately, WP:NPOV doesn't allow for this, and we must always be sure to accurately reflect the influence of a politician (Powell, in this case) on politics. As his influence on the 2008 and 2012 elections is documented on this page, so should his 2016 trashing of both candidates. The section describing his e-mail revelations is here to stay, regardless of what DNC operatives scattered about on Wikipedia want. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hidden Tempo (talk • contribs) 10:51:26 (UTC)

Recommend to add Library Resources Box via template

Since Powell is an author, please consider adding a Library Resources Box via template Template:Library_resources_by. Thanks! Dorevabelfiore (talk) 13:43, 21 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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politician or statesman

To editor Neve-selbert: Not only do you not have consensus for your change here, you seem to be changing a bunch of other biographies similarly. I recommend you stop. Chris Troutman (talk) 21:56, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

I think his little tool altered at least one hundred BLPs. A mass revert may be in order. Newimpartial (talk) 22:51, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
Please understand that the term "statesman" is controversial and should only be used to describe respected dead politicians. To quote Harry Truman: "A politician is man who knows how the government works. A government needs politicians. A statesman is a politician who's been dead 10 or 15 years." --Nevé–selbert 20:42, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
I think you're dead wrong. Chris Troutman (talk) 21:02, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
And I think you're dead wrong to think that I'm dead wrong .--Nevé–selbert 21:06, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
There is no inherent BLP issue in referring to a living person using that term. If you think that there is, suggest you raise the matter at BLPN, but for the moment consensus appears to be against you. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:08, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
@Chris troutman and Nikkimaria: You may be interested to read the Request for Comments discussion at Talk:Ronald Reagan/Archive 18#RfC about whether Reagan is a statesman in the lead section. The consensus there agreed that the term was subjective.--Nevé–selbert 21:11, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
Many of the comments there seem to be specific to Reagan, and not specific to BLPs. Again, if you want to apply this change to all BLPs, you'll need to raise the issue in a broader venue. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:28, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
(edit conflict) @Neve-selbert: And? We may have a different consensus here. Colin Powell never ran for any political office. He was appointed as SECSTATE. Clearly some on that other conversation had animus against Reagan; I don't buy their "politician = objective" argument. Create an RfC here if you must. Tilting at this windmill about the term statesman is a foolish way to spend your editing career. Chris Troutman (talk) 21:31, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
I have to agree. He/she is swapping out "statesman" and "stateswoman" for "politician" on the bios of Governors General of Canada who were never politicians. That's very clearly inserting misleading information into Wikipedia. --₪ MIESIANIACAL 21:35, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
I'm a "he", just so you know. Regarding the governors-general, I may have made a mistake there and for that I apologise. @Chris troutman: Powell may not have ran for any political office but he was appointed to a political office, hence Powell was a political figure. I will start an RFC momentarily.--Nevé–selbert 21:42, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
@Neve-selbert: You don't specify your gender identification in your preferences, FYI. Before you create an RfC, please consider if you want an RfC to remove the term from across Wikipedia or you just want to fight the battle over Colin Powell. I assume the former. Chris Troutman (talk) 21:51, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
To be clear, Chris troutman, I'm fine with the term being used to refer to dead politicians. Truman was dead on the money.--Nevé–selbert 21:56, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
It seems to me a perversion of history to grant dead people more "respectable" titles once their actual policies and views have basically been forgotten. The misuse of history is encouraged by powerful polities with a perceived stake in the matter. We should resist such a bias, and judge people by their merits, not their posthumously glossed image. Uglemat (talk) 23:07, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

Truman is not a reliable source when it comes to defining statesmen. Also, the RfC that found that the term "politician" was more appropriate for Reagan than "statesman" cannot possibly apply to the myriad cases auto-"corrected" by Neve - he is making changes on the basis that the subjects are alive (which Reagan is not) to people like Powell who never sought elected office (as Reagan undeniably did) and who were therefore never politicians. He even changed the Mikhail Gorbachov entry, which was precisely used in the RfC as an example of someone who, unlike Reagan, was undeniably (and therefore not subjectively) a "statesman".Uglemat (talk) 23:07, 16 September 2017 (UTC)


I still hold that these changes should have been mass-reverted, and that the editor who initiated them should hold his tongue until he actually understands WP:BLP. Newimpartial (talk) 22:20, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

I am biting my tongue at your refusal to even countenance why I initiated these changes. Per WP:BLPSOURCE, contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced should be removed immediately and without discussion. There are no sources in the lead referring to Powell as a statesman. Powell was appointed to a political office and is therefore a political figure. If you can provide me with a variety of WP:RS confirming that these figures are indeed statesmen, I may reconsider whether to launch an RFC. In the meantime, I wholeheartedly agree with the entirely reasonable Truman quote.--Nevé–selbert 23:01, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
WP:BLPSOURCE's suggestion is intended to protect BLP from unsourced *negative* characterizations, for reasons that should be obvious to you. You're using it to remove the label on pages of historical individuals you dislike because you perceive the term as having mildly positive connotations. The label "statesman" is not *contentious* in BLP's usage of the word, and its principle is precisely the opposite of what BLP intends. Please stop trolling. 73.61.20.122 (talk) 15:01, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
I agree with what the IP editor has stated above about process lawyering, and would also point out that the use of widely-accepted terms that have been in place, in some articles, for many years, does not suddenly become contentious (in wiki terms) because one editor arrives on the scene with a script and DOESNOTLIKEIT. Newimpartial (talk) 16:10, 19 September 2017 (UTC)Ж
In response to the rather impertinent IP, I must stress that these are not historical individuals in the sense that they belong to history. They are still alive and are subject to WP:BLP. The label may not be formally contentious on Wikipedia, but it remains disputable elsewhere for a variety of reasons. Is Barack Obama a statesman? Is Angela Merkel? I digress. I must respond to Newimpartial that my edit to Valéry Giscard d'Estaing was in response to this edit made a couple of days ago, which was made without consensus.--Nevé–selbert 18:11, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Powell's first Army assignment

Powell's first Army assignment was as a platoon leader in the Second Armored Rifle Battalion, 48th Infantry, Combat Command B, 3rd Armored Division at Gelnhausen, West Germany near the Fulda Gap. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.195.116.246 (talk) 08:38, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Yiddisch (liguistics) ability

The autobiography indicated that Powell picked-up quite a bit of Yiddisch (a sort of Russian and Hebrew dialect) while working in NY in his early years. Reading and/or Writer? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.3.28.147 (talk) 22:41, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

  1. The English spelling is "Yiddish".
  2. It is not "a sort of Russian and Hebrew dialect": it is a language closely related to German.
  3. What is your point in relation to editing the article, which is what this talk page is for? The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 11:06, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Commands line is inaccurate

Under the COMMANDS block on GEN (R) Powell's wiki bio, it lists CHAIRMAN (CJCS) OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF (JCS) as a command. That is wholly inaccurate on several levels. First, the a Chairman is different from Commander is the first indicator of an inaccuracy. Second, the chiefs of staff from the services, overwhich he is the chairman, are the STAFF CHIEFs of the ARMY, NAVY, AIR FORCE and MARINES (Commandant). None of them possess delineated "command responsibilities", they are entitled by law (U.S.C. Title 10) and by convention to provide training, manpower, and equipment to support the regional commands that cover the globe.

RECOMMENDATION: Strike the position of CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF from the COMMANDS list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tavibrunson (talk • contribs) 14:53, 22 March 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 April 2019

Please change the dead url url=http://achievement.org/autodoc/page/pow0int-1 to https://www.achievement.org/achiever/general-colin-l-powell/#interview

Please change [1]

to [2] PippaDiggs (talk) 14:58, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

 Not done: The link is not dead, the first redirects to the second. Gangster8192 02:00, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "Colin Powell Interview". achievement.org. Archived from the original on September 8, 2015. Retrieved August 27, 2015. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |dead-url= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
  2. ^ "Colin Powell Biography and Interview". www.achievement.org. American Academy of Achievement.

Lead image

I changed the AWFUL lead/infobox image to a more recent, high quality one, and was reverted with the comment "Unless there is a consensus, we use the official image of government officials, regardless of how outdated they may be." Where, exactly, is the consensus for that "rule"? (Hohum @) 23:41, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

  • 1. Current image
    1. Current image
  • 2. Proposed image
    2. Proposed image

I invite opinions on what would make a better infobox/lead image for the article. Obliviously I think "2". Add others as necessary. (Hohum @) 23:47, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 June 2020

Change party affiliation to Democratic from Republican BoilerPatriot (talk) 18:52, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 18:58, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Colin Powell resigned, and was not fired.

Colin Powell famously resigned and was not fired by George w Bush.Sallysgrlfky (talk) 12:26, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Lead

Why is the fact that he endorsed and will vote for joe biden in the lead when it's not notable, as he endorsed and voted for the democratic candidate in the last 3 elections 69.120.191.32 (talk) 13:30, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 January 2021

There is a sentence in the "After the Vietnam War" section. What does it mean "After a race not occurred...." 71.191.138.34 (talk) 13:23, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

You seem to have misread (and misquoted) this sentence, what it actually says is "After a race riot occurred, ..."
As you're not technically requesting an edit I'm closing as  Not done. AngryHarpy‍talk 13:33, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Leaving the Republican party

He hasn't been a republican for years, he voted for the democratic party presidential candidate in at least the last 4 elections, '08, '12, '16, '20 and perhaps even in '04. 69.116.73.107 (talk) 16:10, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Leaving the Republican party

He hasn't been a republican for years, he voted for the democratic party presidential candidate in at least the last 4 elections, '08, '12, '16, '20 and perhaps even in '04. 69.116.73.107 (talk) 16:10, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 January 2021

Add ordinal of "16th" to Powell's tenure as United States Deputy National Security Advisor. 138.51.252.90 (talk) 23:47, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

 Not done. I am not convinced that there is an exhaustive list available for people who have served as Deputy National Security Advisor. Sdrqaz (talk) 18:29, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Colin Powell official portrait

Why not use a more recent portrait of him (a 2010s image was replaced with out of date LTG image) as the main biography picture?

We have [his official State Dept.] portrait. Would like consensus to replace with this if agreed on. SuperWIKI (talk) 04:58, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

I believe using File:Colin_Powell_official_Secretary_of_State_photo.jpg makes sense. --Righanred (talk) 16:29, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 July 2021

In the following sentence: Powell also disagree with Clinton Administration new "Don't ask, don't tell" policy which allow homosexuals to serve in the military.

Change "disagree" to "disagreed" to make it the past tense, as this was during the Clinton Administration in the 1990s. The phrase "Powell disagree" isn't grammatically correct by itself, either. Eliu.usa23 (talk) 02:12, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

 Done RudolfRed (talk) 04:53, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 October 2021

At approximately 8:03 a.m. on October 18th, 2021, Fox News Channel announced Colin Powell has died from COVID-19 at age 84. 170.103.57.55 (talk) 12:05, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

 Done This has now been added to the article by other editors. —AFreshStart (talk) 12:46, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Powell died in Maryland

In the categories section please can someone swap Category: Deaths from the COVID-19 pandemic in the United States to Category: Deaths from the COVID-19 pandemic in Maryland 82.132.231.125 (talk) 12:59, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

 Done This has now been added to the article by other editors. —AFreshStart (talk) 13:15, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 October 2021 (2)

Colin is dead at 84 on 18th October 2021 Tinghang0401 (talk) 12:52, 18 October 2021 (UTC) Colin is dead at 84 on 18th October 2021

 Not done His death is already mentioned in the article (although I think this should be made clearer in the lead). —AFreshStart (talk) 13:01, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 October 2021 (5)

Arbaz32 (talk) 17:09, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Dead:Click here

 Already done - FlightTime (open channel) 17:17, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

How is the editing and grammar so horrible in this article?

This entire section needs a massive amount work. This information is incredibly unclear, badly edited, and provides no encyclopedic knowledge about the subject.

From "Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff:"

Colin also regularly clashed with Secretary of Defense Leslie Aspin, whom Colin himself was hesitate when President Clinton nominate it as Secretary of Defense from the first place.[31] At some point during a lunch-meeting between General Powell and Aspin for a preparation of Operation Gothic Serpent, while Powell was presenting what was need to be prepared for the operations, Aspin instead of listening and paying attention to Powell, he was more focused on wolfing down his salad instead of listening and paying attention to Powell.[31] The incident causing Powell to grew more irritated towards the Defense Secretary and led to his early resignation on September 30, 1993 and was succeeded temporarily by Vice Chairman of The Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral David E. Jeremiah who took the position as Acting Chairman of The Joint Chiefs of Staff. Indeed, about a few days following Powel resignation on 3–4 October 1993 the Battle of Mogadishu as part of the Operation Gothic Serpent which aim to captured Somalia warlord Mohammad Farrah Aidid was initiated and ended in a total disaster which led to the death of 19 American servicemen and the shootdown that led to the crash of two United States Army Black Hawk Helicopter and the captured of one of its pilot by Somali militia. Many believed that the fiasco of Battle of Mogadishu was caused by Defense Secretary Les Aspin and Clinton Administration for not seriously taking Powell request for additional increase of tanks, armored vehicles and AC-130 Spectre gunships air-support for the support of Operation Gothic Serpent which ultimately could give more protection and support towards U.S. Troops later-on in the Battle of Mogadishu. The event that was depicted in 2001 movie Black Hawk Down was a major blowback towards Clinton Administration and was one of the reason that led to Aspin resignation as Secretary of Defense in 1994. Powell also disagree with Clinton Administration new "Don't ask, don't tell" policy which allow homosexuals to serve in the military.[31]

How is this so bad?

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.250.78.215 (talk • contribs) 18:19, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Colin powell.

Colin Paul was never fired He resigned !!! And as a matter of fact and resign because of the money that he talked to me is going to get your scam that would go to Africa and he would take his cut that plane got dismantled because of the war in Iraq. So what so when found out he couldn't scam any American tax dollars he decided to resign. He promised a lot of the warlords over there to get this American dollars !! Dcfranko2 (talk) 14:38, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Cite valid sources, or you're a liar. DOR (HK) (talk) 19:19, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 October 2021 (3)

Barak Obama was biracial, not African American. 131.95.194.218 (talk) 14:15, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Please be more specific to what you wish to edit. Perfecnot (talk) 15:55, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 October 2021 (4)

Citation is needed regarding Collin Powell receiving electoral votes in 2016.

https://www.archives.gov/files/electoral-college/2016/vote-washington.pdf

https://www.archives.gov/electoral-college/results records all electoral votes back until 1892 but is this a true statement? After Barack Obama, Powell was only the second Black person to receive electoral votes in a presidential election. 66.57.95.120 (talk) 14:19, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Yeah you i’ll add this  Done Perfecnot (talk) 16:02, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 October 2021 (5)

He is described as American. He is described as African-American. His parents were Jamaican. He is not African-American as neither he nor his relatives are from any country in Africa. He should be referred to as American, as that is where he was born, or as Jamaican-American. 97.112.202.195 (talk) 16:27, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Not done; please see African-American. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:48, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 April 2021

I found two notable left issues just reading about Powell’s start in the Army: 1) while his high school is listed, and aspects of his college ROTC experience are discussed, his college is not listed—as a former Army officer with an ROTC commission, that was the main reason I read the article; 2) it reads that he attended Basic Training at Ft. Benning GA, but Basic Training is for enlisted personnel, Powell attended the Infantry Officer Basic Course at Ft. Benning. Officers do not attend Basic Training, they attend a branch-specific Officer Basic Course (e.g., Aviation Officer Basic Course, Engineer Officer Basic Course, Field Artillery Officer Basic Course, Armor Officer Basic Course, Infantry Officer Basic Course, etc.). Powell also attended Airborne Course, Air Assault Course, and Ranger Course (all of which I simply see on his uniform).

If you’re going to mention things like his participation in the Pershing Rifles in ROTC(pretty minor and without competitive admission) then it’s much, much more important to mention his college alma mater (where he obtained his commission), Infantry Officer Basic Course, Airborne Course, Air Assault Course, Ranger Course, etc.

A much less important correction is that there is in fact no such rank as “four star general.” The general officer ranks are: Brigadier General (who wear one star for rank insignia), Major General (wearing two stars for insignia), Lieutenant General, (wearing three stars) and simply General (wearing four stars). Just like how you can be an associate editor or assistant editor, but they both aspire to be editor (not full editor, not exalted editor, not four star editor). So, it’s more correct to write that Colin Powell achieved the rank of General (four stars). If necessary, you could write that Powell achieved the rank of General (four stars), the highest possible rank among all US Armed Forces. 2603:6000:9840:E07:40D9:432:1C07:258C (talk) 02:31, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

I've added his alma mater. I'm not familiar with the military enough to comment on the others. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (Say hi!) 03:06, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 Partly done: Four-star general is a commonly used term that is well understood by laymen. Any other changes requested should give the exact edit you'd like made, rather than a general idea of what you'd like changed. Thanks. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:17, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

He also wasn't "assistant chief of staff of operations" at the Americal. As a major, he would have been assistant G3. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.28.145.40 (talk) 21:55, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

To add to article

To add to this article: which brand of vaccine Powell received, and whether he was fully vaccinated. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 04:53, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

 Not done Already says he was vaccinated, the of brand of vaccine is irrelevant. Perfecnot (talk) 12:02, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Just announced on CNN: Powell had not received a Covid-19 vaccine booster because, near the end of his life, he was too sick to take it. 173.88.246.138 (talk) 05:18, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

 Not done This would be relevant in a article about his death, but not his main article. It’s too specific. Perfecnot (talk) 12:25, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Nominated for the Main Page at WP:ITN

{{ITN nom}} -Ad Orientem (talk) 00:10, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

 Pending There’s no article about his death specifically yet, until one is made there isn’t anything to be nominated. Perfecnot (talk) 12:11, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
His death has been nominated for mention in the recent deaths section and also is under discussion for a possible blurb. In most cases where a death is being discussed the practice is to link to the subject's bio article. The last time I looked their was little apatite for a blurb but the main hold up with linking the article to RD was the large number of CN tags. -Ad Orientem (talk) 12:39, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
Are you planning on creating a blurb? Perfecnot (talk) 12:49, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
The proposed blurb and discussion are here. -Ad Orientem (talk) 13:22, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Critisism

To assure a neutral point of view on C.P., there should be a section with a discussion of criticized aspects of his work. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.218.164.126 (talk) 12:50, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

@62.218.164.126: I believe the criticism has been integrated into the main text of the article; many editors here dislike 'criticism' or 'controversy' sections in articles. Is there anything specific you think is missing? —AFreshStart (talk) 13:03, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
I don’t like a criticism section, especially on a politican, I think its better to integrate it into the article itself. Perfecnot (talk) 16:06, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

It's not just a matter of editorial preference, but actual policy to avoid criticism sections. Note to "avoid". They are not totally forbidden, but we should try to integrate criticism at the logical spots in the article, as is done here. -- Valjean (talk) 14:32, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Edit request: Col. Powell

Please change the hatnote to handle the incoming redirect Colonel Powell so that a link to the disambiguation page Colonel Powell (disambiguation) appears here.

Change 

{{Redirect|General Powell}}
"General Powell" redirects here. For other uses, see General Powell (disambiguation).

to 

{{Redirect-multi|2|General Powell|Colonel Powell}}
"General Powell" and "Colonel Powell" redirect here. For other uses, see General Powell (disambiguation) and Colonel Powell (disambiguation).

-- 64.229.90.53 (talk) 15:56, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

 Done RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 18:30, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 October 2021 (2)

Death On October 18, 2021, Powell, who was being treated for multiple myeloma, (158] died at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center of complications from COVID-19 at the age of 84.1159] He had been vaccinated, but his myeloma compromised his immune system. [1601]

He had been vaccinated, but his myeloma compromised his immune system.

Has this information been confirmed by his medical doctor or family? If it has not, out of respect for him and his family, that statement should be removed. The family was very clear about his death and it should be stated as such. 2600:8801:38A3:E300:48FE:842D:3736:8CB1 (talk) 23:36, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

The cited source (New York Times) states "A spokeswoman said his immune system had been compromised by multiple myeloma, for which he had been undergoing treatment." The same article mentions his vaccination status multiple times. If you're questioning the credibility of the spokesperson, that's something to take up with the New York Times. This is sufficiently verifiable to appear in the article. ‑‑ElHef (Meep?) 00:01, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

28 crises

I thought the language in the lede and body referring to "28 crises" was bizarrely specific. Turns out it appears in his official Bush administration bio. But I am still rather baffled. Is "crisis" a term of art in natsec or international relations such that a person can clearly be stated to have overseen exactly 28 crises—no more, no less? AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 01:01, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, it's bizarrely specific. InedibleHulk (talk) 05:38, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

This extended interview may be useful

https://time.com/6107966/colin-powell-time-interview/ Victor Grigas (talk) 17:02, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Black

Colin Powell was not African-American by heritage, similar to Barack Obama, Kamala Harris, etc.. Black, yes (Jamaican). African-American (people who are descendants of African slaves on American soil), no. The first paragraph should read that he was the first Black SOS.72.174.131.123 (talk) 09:08, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Agree, per [2], [3], [4], [5]. Only one I see offhand using "African American" is NPR. Suggest that we settle this on talk to avoid what is sure to be a slow-motion edit war over his proper ethnic designation (see the history of Lloyd Austin for an analogous example). AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 12:44, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
What scholarly tome defines African-American as "a descendant of slaves on American soil" ? 50.111.2.158 (talk) 15:35, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
I'm sure there a plenty of textbooks found in African-American history departments throughout U.S. colleges. This should be a no-brainer, however. His ancestry is Jamaican, so that's an answer in itself. Without duly acknowledging/respecting AA heritage, articles about said people lump millions of people (today and in the future) together by default. That's like saying that African-Americans are Jamaican, which isn't true; different culture (food, music, historical background, celebrations/traditions, etc.), but a somewhat shared experience in America, which is where the confusion may lie. Barack Obama isn't African-American, either.72.174.131.123 (talk) 01:13, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

Raimondo

Mox La Push, You added this book, published by the "America First Political Action Committee" and written by the clearly partisan Justin Raimondo, to the bibliography. I doubt that it is a WP:RS. Can you explain why you added it? AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 13:01, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Sources may be partisan, but our edit summaries must be neutral. What makes you think this won't pass RS muster? A whole multitude of dem-pac sources sure have. 50.111.2.158 (talk) 15:32, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
I think it's unreliable because it's published by an advocacy organization and written by a political advocate. May be reliable for Raimondo's own opinions but not for facts. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 17:50, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for asking, AleatoryPonderings. I agree that Raimondo's book is a political critique of Powell but, not to put too fine a point on it, I don't agree it is "partisan". Raimondo's book represents a libertarian, non-interventionist perspective that helps make the bibliography more encyclopedic by reflecting a broader range of perspectives on Powell. AFAIK, Raimondo's book is not currently cited as a source for any text in the article. I don't know whether WP:RS applies to books listed in bibliography sections. If it does then I agree the book should probably be removed per WP:SPS and I'll do it myself, if necessary.--Mox La Push (talk) 22:36, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
Ah, I think it's just a miscommunication re "bibliography". I'm fine to have it in the further reading section—just not fine with it being used as a source (and I agree that it's not used as a source). I had created "bibliography" as a place to accumulate multi-page sources for ease of use with {{sfn}}, whereas "further reading" need not include sources. I'll move Raimondo to further reading if there are no objections? AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 22:44, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
Thanks for your measured approach. I'm not prepared to object to your proposal but I do have two concerns for your consideration. First, everything currently in "Further reading" lists Powell as a co-author while none of the bibliography entries do. Thus, if you make that move then Raimondo's book will be the only entry in that section not co-authored by Powell. Second, I note the style essay for Further reading says: "Editors most frequently choose high-quality reliable sources. However, other sources may be appropriate, including: historically important publications; creative works or primary sources discussed extensively in the article; and seminal, but now outdated, scientific papers. When such sources are listed, the relevance of the work should be explained by a brief annotation." Powell really came on to the national stage with Persian Gulf war and then, building on that, the 1995 publication of My American Journey. So, an annotation might note that Raimondo's book is relevant as coming from a prominent non-interventionist early in Powell's time on the national stage. Since Raimondo's book is almost certainly self-published it would not withstand a concerted attack via WP:SPS. As an aside, I think Wikipedia's excessive and undue deference to "reliable sources" warps the project so that it favors the views of corporate-backed "stenographers of power". I think reliable sources is a useful policy that should be kept and adjusted, not jettisoned. In any case, keeping Raimondo's book in the Powell article is not a matter upon which I'm willing to expend much more time and energy. If you have further questions or concerns to share with me then I will happily reply but I'm probably content at this point to defer to your judgment on the issue.--Mox La Push (talk) 06:06, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
I moved it, and agree that we have perhaps spilled too much ink on this point by now. I disagree that focussing on reliable sources is in any sense a defect of the project—surely we would not want to rely on unreliable sources—but perhaps our definition of "reliable" is unduly restrictive. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 15:36, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

Redirect

Hi, at the moment, this article can be reached by a redirect from Colonel Powell. This seems to me to be fundamentally a wrong approach as Colin Powell is clearly enormously notable for his entire life's work, not merely for any time he spent at that rank; also, he is sufficiently well-known that I am certain our readers would type his name correctly if they are looking for Colin Powell, and are most likely to type Colonel Powell if they are looking for one of the various other Colonel Powell's that have existed. I would like to suggest that we get rid of the Colonel Powell redirect that brings people to this article, and instead allow a search for Colonel Powell to direct to the Colonel Powell disambiguation page. I think it reasonable that the disambiguation page have reference to this article, in case anyone lands up there by mistake. Is this an appropriate change? I have not gone straight for a PROD at the redirect page in case there are good reasons against. Elemimele (talk) 18:17, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

@Elemimele I think redirecting Colonel Powell to Colonel Powell (disambiguation) makes a lot of sense. I would, however, comment that when I visited the DAB page I completely missed the top notice about Colin Powell because my eye went straight to the 'People' section, where he is not listed. This might be one time when moving that header notice into the People section would be a good idea. Nick Moyes (talk) 19:19, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
@Nick Moye, strewth, things move fast here! Someone's already moved the header notice. Thanks for the suggestion, I agree entirely. Elemimele (talk) 20:17, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
That would be me... :-).
It turns out the dab page was only created a few days ago. I just cleaned it up, and shifted the redirect to point to there instead of here, since now that a disambiguation page exists, that seems like a more appropriate target.--NapoliRoma (talk) 20:23, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 October 2021

Graduated from George Washington University 128.164.181.40 (talk) 03:19, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

 Done Jurisdicta (talk) 04:40, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
I updated the Edit Request tag to yes as per the response from Jurisdicta. I Am Chaos (talk) 06:12, 19 October 2021 (UTC)
Thank you! Jurisdicta (talk) 06:41, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 October 2021

Please remove this line: 

Powell, who was being treated for blood cancer, that affects the immune system, died from complications of COVID-19 on October 18, 2021.

and add this line: 

Powell died from complications of COVID-19 on October 18, 2021, while being treated for a form of blood cancer that affected his immune system.

The first sentence is really complex with four commas, and "that" after a comma is either wrong or really unusual. Also, the note at the top of the article reminds us to use past tense in his article, and "affects" is present tense. 64.203.186.93 (talk) 16:53, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

 Done ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:20, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

Please add that the first elementary school was named for him in The Woodlands Tx. Conroe ISD.

Please add that the first elementary school was named for him in The Woodlands Tx. Conroe ISD. 67.11.8.55 (talk) 16:20, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

Trump Mention

What is the reason, need or relevance for mentioning Trump in his death section? Not everything is about him. 2600:1700:1400:7DE0:A015:A818:2677:E6CF (talk) 16:46, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

I tried to change the phrasing to be a little more accurate. Eruditess (talk) 23:33, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 May 2022

Exactly why is it necessary to history to include he was vaccinated if there is no mention of covid as a direct cause of his death. How about we remove that portion and just mention how he died. 2600:4040:1253:4D00:A1C3:B5A0:95B9:63BD (talk) 22:06, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. —Sirdog (talk) 22:15, 15 May 2022 (UTC)

Colin Powell

There is a line in the 4th paragraph that states Powell received three electoral votes in the 2016 Presidential election. This is not correct. I cannot provide proof but I believe the year was 1996. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.101.49.24 (talk) 20:37, 20 May 2022 (UTC)

It is correct. In the 2016 Presidential Election, the Electors for Washington: "****Washington does not appoint its electors proportionally. Due to faithless voting, the electoral votes for Washington were: for President, Clinton 8, Colin Powell 3, and Faith Spotted Eagle 1; for Vice President, Kaine 8, Elizabeth Warren 1, Susan Collins 1, Maria Cantwell 1, and Winona LaDuke 1." [2016 Electoral College Results https://www.archives.gov/electoral-college/2016] 142.254.26.9 (talk) 05:06, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
https://www.archives.gov/electoral-college/1996 for 1996 there was no Other. 142.254.26.9 (talk) 05:08, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 24 November 2022

  • In 2021, Colin Powell was awarded the Gerald R. Ford Medal for Distinguished Public Service by the Gerald R. Ford Presidential Foundation. [1] 205.189.94.9 (talk) 20:03, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
  1. ^ "Gerald R. Ford Medal". Gerald R. Ford Medal. Retrieved November 24, 2022. {{cite web}}: |archive-date= requires |archive-url= (help)CS1 maint: url-status (link)

 Done Thank you. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 20:22, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

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