Talk:Clan Pollock

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Fulbert "The Saxon"? Not quite...[edit]

A likely breakthrough. Wallace & Pollock are one & the same. It's Fulbert the Saxon "P" letter wynn, pronounced as W. The surname should be written as Wolloc, & pronounced as in Wallace. Each name is a misspelling & mispronunciation of each other. His real name was Fulbert Wallace & a very good & bad Saxon speller! EP111 (talk)

As an addendum, I'd like it to be noted that Fulbert was with a Richard Wallace, in the entourage of Walter Fitzalan. So, they may have been brothers, cousins or father & son. EP111 (talk)

Does Fulbert appear in contemporary records? Any idea what the sources for him are? I wonder if he is only known from the charter that granted the lands to his descendants? The article says that it was his sons who were granted the lands of Pollock - not Fulbert himself. Was Fulbert actually connected to these lands? From your comments, you make it seem like he was called (or could have been called) 'Fulbert Pollock', what's your source for that; or are you just assuming it, along with the whole Wallace thing because you think it all fits together? The placenames, which Pollock is considered to be derived from, don't seem to have any connection with Wallace [1]. The Wallace-wynn thing is a cool theory though.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 10:46, 22 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I just noted that that link states that Pollokshaws was recorded in 1158 as Pullock. I wonder if that record was the said charter? Any idea? Is that the earliest the place name goes back?--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 10:56, 22 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Brianann, this is absolutely new research, as far as I know. As in the main article, Fulbert is referenced in Robert de Polloc's seal in the British Museum. At this point, I've merely been relying on other online sources which refer to Fulbert "The Saxon", not Fulbert Pollock. However, I noticed that wynn/P connection when doing some research with regards to other history. I've since studied it a bit further. If the name "Polloc" (hard "C") is written in Old English script, with the use of the wynn/P character, the exact reading can be pronounced as "Wolloc", with a soft letter "C". The name for his sons was "de Polloc", so that would be something akin to "of Wallace". My best guess, at this point, is that perhaps Fulbert was either an illegitimate son or merely a subordinate of Richard Wallace? I would suggest that either Fulbert or one of his sons actually wrote in Old English script, hence being called "the Saxon". He may have been uneducated to the Anglo-Norman language of his superiors, therefore the rather strange spelling. Unfortunately, that's all I have, at this point & I can't offer any evidence to actually place him in Glasgow at the time his sons received the land grant. This is merely something which seems to connect him to Richard Wallace, in one way or another, & that Fulbert would therefore have, at least, written (badly) & spoken in Old English. Please note that the wynn/P character was carried through into early Middle English. Regards, EP111 (talk)

Note also, if Polloc is scripted, badly, in the Old English orthography of Futhorc, using the pynn (wynn), éðel (oethel), lagu & cen characters, it can be read as Woelloec, with a soft "C". Though, Futhorc would've just been superceded by the early 1100s. EP111 (talk) 17:06, 22 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This is all good theory, but there is no evidence whatsoever of the name Wallace being spelled anything like Wolloc or Woelloec. Furthermore, Polloc lands existed long before Richard Wallace and Fulbert came to Scotland. Fulbert's sons started the surname, after the lands which they were granted. I doubt they were related to the Wallaces. The Wallace clan was already somewhat established. The spelling started to solidify when they came to Scotland. What does prove interesting though is that there are written accounts of a Fulbert as chamberlain to William the Conquerer, and that William's grandfather is named Fulbert. The grandfather, Fulbert of Falaise, would be too old to be the Fulbert of the Polk line. The two Fulberts are born in the same region, though finding any link of their relation has not had any success. Still, I do believe there is some sort of connection here. Either the dates in which Fulbert the Saxon lived and died are incorrect, or there is a missing family member.2600:1700:8A40:1920:3808:1FA0:BEC4:6F4E (talk) 05:53, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Blazon issue[edit]

There is a problem with the escutcheon for Pollock of Pollock on Commons. Namely, that the link given for the blazon does not read or a saltire vert as rendered, but vert a saltire or. That is how the escutcheon is given on https://www.scotclans.com/blogs/clans-pqr/pollock-crest-coats-of-arms, for example. Charles Matthews (talk) 10:37, 24 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]