Talk:Characters of the Marvel Cinematic Universe/Archive 1

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3 Archive 4

Overview

@Jhenderson777: We need to establish some kind of rules for that Overview table, otherwise it's going to be neverending. Maybe something in the vein of the rules for the List of Marvel Cinematic Universe films Recurring cast and characters section. El Millo (talk) 01:18, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea. I was just adding the characters in the one section at the time being. Also I added it due to recommendation. Jhenderson 777 01:23, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
We should also think about what exactly is the purpose of this article/list, because so far I'm failing to see any. What does this article offer that all the other articles don't already have. El Millo (talk) 01:53, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
Explanation #1: The article is not done yet with every character yet. Due to me starting with major characters that just about 98% are already notable enough for their own article. It makes sense that you think that.
First reasoning: What about those other percent. If more minor characters like Erik Selvig could possibly me merged. Where do they go? This seems like a good a place like any. What about The Other, Luis (which belongs redirecting here and not where he is now), Darcy Lewis. Where’s their info and where is their best redirection place for them. Right here. All these I mentioned are original characters. Also loose characters like MJ and Ned Lee probably fit better here too.
Second reason: Even if there is no list. There is enough articles on the topic to outline all the character articles. Also this place can outline other list articles related to the MCU.
Third reasoning:It passes Wp:GNG despite your concern of redundancy. Jhenderson 777 03:25, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
Perfect. El Millo (talk) 18:28, 20 November 2019 (UTC)
Facu-el Millo, none of the articles on en.wiki has a section where you can read about a character from the MCU. Each film has it's own specific character info for that film, while the comic book articles are a mess with dozens of different versions all mashed up in one messy article. This, similar to List of Arrow characters will be a central place where the character information is handled. The article is not nearly at the point where it's ready for mainspace, as there are a lot to clean up, and then verifying all the sources say what that they are supposed to say, etc. --Gonnym (talk) 18:34, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

Pietro Maximoff

@Jhenderson777: The source material showed Hawkeye calling the siblings as Avengers if they fought together which they did. They are in - can you give me a timestamp so I can verify this? --Gonnym (talk) 15:48, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Never mind. He just said that to Wanda. He says you step out that door! You are an Avenger!" But still...the MCU wiki puts him in that category. Jhenderson 777 16:12, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
Comic-related films and TV series always have issues where even reliable sources use comic-related names when the source material does not. As an example: Wanda was never called "Scarlet Witch" in the films, yet Screen Rant writes Played by Elizabeth Olsen, Scarlet Witch is undeniably one of the most powerful of the Avengers, which is why the primary source (the films) should be used to make sure that these things really happened and cited with {{cite video}}. Even for example, the battle scene of End Game where Captain America says to everyone "Avengers! Assemble." that shouldn't be taken literally. He doesn't even know who is behind him. Are the Ravagers now Avengers? Is every citizen of Wakanda now an Avenger? Compare that to Civil War, where you have the individuals actually in the Avengers campus and going on missions as Avengers. Also, even though Spider-Man fought in with Tony in that film, remember that in the end of the film where they are supposed to show Spider-Man as the new Avenger, he decides he isn't ready, which means that he himself isn't part of the official team in that film. --Gonnym (talk) 16:35, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
The wiki even says he is the first Avenger in battle to die. So yeah IDK. Not a reliable source I Am aware. But worth a note here at least. Also this doesn’t count people from Wakanda (with exceptions of Black Panther and Okoye of course). Jhenderson 777 16:40, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
That wiki isn't a RS and as I said, even if a RS did say that, if it conflicts with the actual film source, then it still doesn't matter. --Gonnym (talk) 18:35, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

I already noted that and I tried to compromise by not saying who counts as an Avenger anyway. Fine? Jhenderson 777 18:55, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

I didn't notice you changed it in the article as I haven't reached that section yet, but if you did, great! --Gonnym (talk) 18:56, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

Non free image

I'm not really sure a merged image of the Infinity War and Endgame posters is the best to represent this article. I'd rather there be no image until one more appropriate in my eyes could potentially be used (if ever) that that one I feel. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:13, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Removed it then. Feel free for image recommendations if any. I kind of hope there is good examples. Jhenderson 777 19:22, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
At the moment, I don't know of any, but that doesn't mean one won't come in the future. Thanks for removing the old one. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:33, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Characters of the Marvel Cinematic Universe

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Characters of the Marvel Cinematic Universe's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Collider":

Reference named "Empire":

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 13:27, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Nick Fury (Marvel Cinematic Universe)

I kind of think MCU’s Nick Fury deserves his own articles. Any objections on that if done right? Jhenderson 777 19:35, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Note: There is already a draft of him I notice. See here: Draft:Nick Fury (Marvel Cinematic Universe) Jhenderson 777 19:37, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
Support, but the draft needs a great deal of improvement, including additional citations. BD2412 T 20:18, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
Support From me as well, but Draft needs to be improved.★Trekker (talk) 15:10, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
 Done, by the way. BD2412 T 18:22, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 8 June 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. As several users point out, this is not necessarily a list and is similar to other articles like Characters of The Legend of Zelda. (closed by non-admin page mover) Calidum 19:46, 24 June 2020 (UTC)


Characters of the Marvel Cinematic Universe → List of Marvel Cinematic Universe characters – Correct article titles for list articles. Gonnym (talk) 20:30, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 14:24, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
  • Comment: I am neutral with name but "Characters of" is used on articles. See Characters of The Legend of Zelda and Characters of Halo for instant. Maybe is is used for just video games but still...used.Jhenderson 777 14:35, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
  • Comment: How I hate auto-moved TRs to to full RMs. Has this ever been useful? Does my "nomination" even seem slightly relevant? I've not even been pinged to this discussion. All-around amazing process. To the actual topic: List articles in Wikipedia almost always start with "List of xxx...". For this article, the relevant guidelines are the film and TV guidelines (WP:NCFILM and WP:NCTV). While the film guideline is silent on list articles, Wikipedia:Naming conventions (television)#List articles is clear on how they should be named. The above examples of video games has no relevance to this article. As for SnowFire's comment, there is no such confusion between "characters" and "cast members". If anyone feels confused, I suggest opening a dictionary. --Gonnym (talk) 15:30, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
Also, see Category:Marvel Cinematic Universe character lists for how this style is used in a WP:CONSISTENT way in the MCU list articles. --Gonnym (talk) 18:05, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
Re the comment on contested technical move procedure: Yes, a discussion is useful? We clearly disagree so kicking this to the community to gain consensus is the proper course of action and the core of how Wikipedia works. If editors agree with you that all character lists should unconditionally be phrased List of XYZ characters, then your move will happen anyway, there's no deadline, waiting a week is harmless. SnowFire (talk) 18:31, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
I meant is it useful to hijack a TR and move it as a normal RM? I clearly did not give any real rational for a full RM discussion. --Gonnym (talk) 22:52, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
In my experience, a TR y moved to a RM when someone contests the change. El Millo (talk) 01:23, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose per above comment - many character lists are named "Characters of XYZ..." and in this particular case, there's a competing list article with a similar name. Making the titles more distinct eases things. Yes, I have access to a dictionary, but why not make navigation easier with more explicit article titles? SnowFire (talk) 18:31, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
FWIW, "Characters of..." has always seemed like awkward article title construction to me (Marvel Cinematic Universe characters would be a much more sensible iteration of that), and most of these kinds of articles are titled "List of [...] characters", so for WP:CONSISTENCY the proposed title makes more sense than keeping the current one. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:51, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
  • Comment I honestly think an actual regular list of MCU characters would be helpful. This is not much of a regular list as an overview (similar to Overview of gun laws by nation), and a HUGE one at that (wich will only grow to even more unwieldy proportions in a few years.... same way the list of films had to be split into the phase articles recently and the list of TV series was split by network). If I had it my way I would split this into several overview article for each MCU film series like how each of the Neflix series has (for example List of Jessica Jones characters and List of Daredevil characters). Make it "List of Captain America (film series) characters" etc to avoid this in advance.★Trekker (talk) 15:09, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
    • I'm not against a split, but I'd rather not it be by film or film series. Even with the Netflix lists you mention, there are characters that exist in more than one series which results in the text being split as well. That is the exact opposite of what this list is meant to be. I think a more correct split would probably be alphabetically. Easy to find what you want, easy to maintain. --Gonnym (talk) 16:07, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
      • What this "list/article" appears to be as of now is unhelpful. I don't care to much of what its "mean to be". And the Netflix TV series also have heavy interconectedness. That's not an issue.
    • With all the interconnectedness of the universe, it might get tricky to place every character in one film series. I think a better way to handle all this would be in a similar way to List of Harry Potter characters. All characters, from mildly relevant to protagonists, with at best a few lines of content each, and a link to the article or section where there's more fleshed out information about them. Then we could have an article called S.H.I.E.L.D. agents or something to that effect –similar to Hogwarts staff, Order of the Phoenix, and Dumbledore's Army–, where we would list all characters to which that title may apply; perhaps List of MCU antagonists could be another article—similar to List of supporting Harry Potter characters. Some characters might just be linked to a "Film" section within their comic counterpart's article. That way, we can have all MCU characters listed together and avoid all this clutter of information at the same time. El Millo (talk) 17:03, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
      • I think this is a decent proposal. I do still think that spliting by film series is not an issue even if there is heavy interconectedness, we would simply do it like we do it in the Netflix series lists where we list characters by instalment (film/season) and mention if they debuted in another series first.★Trekker (talk) 18:46, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
      • Opposed to that for the same reason I gave above. This article is the one meant to be linked to from other places, not the other way around. This should not become an index page. --Gonnym (talk) 17:28, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
        • I'm unsure exactly why you want people to be linked to this page? As of now this page runs a huge risk of becoming simply a page where people insert semi-formed articles about characters in each section. A list should be a list, not articles stacked on top of each other which I fear this will become if left as if.★Trekker (talk) 18:46, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
          • You seem to think that a list equals an index, which is just incorrect. List of characters, as can be seen all over en.wiki, can be in the style of this article. Semi-formed articles is exactly what the list article format is. The characters might not be notable enough, or have enough content for a full article, but do warrant the content in the list. --Gonnym (talk) 19:55, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
        • @Gonnym: Do you have an existing example of what you're proposing? So that I can picture it better. El Millo (talk) 17:36, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
          • It's pretty much this. A section for each character. Characters with an MCU article should have a very brief description and a link to the article and those without an MCU article a longer one that summarizes the in-universe and out-of-universe info needed. All MCU redirects should link here (except of course those with an article). These sections should also eventually also replace the comic-article entry. If the page becomes too long, then a split by name will probably be the easiest to handle. List of Arrow characters and List of supporting Arrow characters, while not perfect at all, are close to how I see this. --Gonnym (talk) 17:41, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
            • I think all this warrants a separate, more in-depth discussion. El Millo (talk) 18:26, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
  • Support. This is undeniably a list of characters and falls under the jurisdiction of WP:SAL. It lists characters and that's it. The "Characters of X" naming convention is for character articles, e.g. Characters of Final Fantasy VIII, a featured article that discusses characters in the form of an article, not merely a list. Axem Titanium (talk) 04:14, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
  • Tentatively oppose, with an eye towards refactoring (and possibly splitting out) some content. There is some interesting material that can be covered regarding the choices made with respect to which characters from the comic books would be used in the MCU (including, of course, licensing issues with respect to characters like Hulk and Spider-Man, whose rights for various purposes are owned by others). There is also a concept of how characters are generally translated from the comics in less fantastic and more reality-grounded. I would tend to object to any refactoring that led to a reduction in existing sourced content on the characters. BD2412 T 18:38, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Implausible redirects

@Favre1fan93, Adamstom.97, Facu-el Millo, Jhenderson777, and Gonnym: Recently, a few editors namely Chompy Ace (talk · contribs) have been piping links of features of the MCU (characters, locations, etc.) to namespaces with the "(Marvel Cinematic Universe)" disambiguation, which in turn are redirected here or other articles. This is fine if the topics of those namespaces meet WP:GNG and will likely be turned into standalone articles. However, if those articles are not likely to be made then they should directly link to the target instead of piping to redirects. Thoughts? --TriiipleThreat (talk) 13:35, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

  • I'm not sure what redirects we are talking about but in general I'll say this. If the redirect is MCU related, and the target is the most relevant section for it, then that is a fine redirect. Redirects do not need to meet GNG so that doesn't matter. What matters is what is the best target. Often, the original comic article is almost never the correct target. --Gonnym (talk) 13:39, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
    • I'm not talking about the final target but piping a link to a page that doesn't exist and most likely will never exist only to be then redirected to another page. For example, Xandar (Marvel Cinematic Universe) redirects to Xandar#Film. I highly doubt that this specific adaptation of Xandar will receive its own article so it should directly link to the page where the information exists.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 13:51, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
      • That's a valid redirect. While an article about Xander might never be created (which we can't really be 100% sure), a list article about locations in the MCU might be created (comics articles have these, see Features of the Marvel Universe). If a MCU related list article is then created, the MCU links are already set in place. Also, additionally, even if both mentioned articles are never created, a person wanting to read more about the Xander of the MCU will benefit much more for a link to the #film section of the comics article, instead of to the top of the comics article, where it has nothing to do with the MCU version. --Gonnym (talk) 13:58, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
        • In that case links should point directly to Features of the Marvel Cinematic Universe (if it existed), not Xandar (Marvel Cinematic Universe). There is no need to be redirected if Xandar (Marvel Cinematic Universe) is not likely to be made. Xandar (Marvel Cinematic Universe) is implausible and should not exist. WP:REDNO is somewhat related in this instance.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 14:06, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
          • I'm a bit confused by your comments as it seems you don't understand what a redirect is. Why would a link for Xander link to Features of the Marvel Cinematic Universe and not to the direct section of Xander there? And if we are linking to the direct section there, why would you not use a redirect? Also, REDNO is not relevant here, what is relevant is WP:NOTBROKEN. --Gonnym (talk) 14:19, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
            • Again, the target is not the issue, its the redirect itself. We should be linked directly to the page or section where the information is being housed. Not everything needs its own "(Marvel Cinematic Universe)" namespace.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 14:41, 23 September 2020 (UTC)

(Just a note, for some reason I didn't get this ping.) I feel like the characters are okay to adjust to redirects with the MCU dab, to get readers here (to hopefully fuller sections) and then using hatnotes to get to the comic character pages, but I think at least at the moment, it's a bit murky making redirects for things like Xandar. So I see Triiiple's point, but if they have been created, there isn't anything wrong with them existing. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 00:24, 24 September 2020 (UTC)

Missing characters

Howard the Duck, Cosmo the Spacedog, Charlie-27, Martinex and Adam Warlock aren't featured here yet. Neither is the Dora Milajie. Possibly also add the Living Tribunal as he is mentioned (Karl Mordo's staff) and nearly appeared in Infinity War, and maybe Stan Lee, as he portrays the same character the whole way through (possibly TOAA). Do we have characters for upcoming films? If so, the Eternals (as a race/team AND individually), Black Knight, Taskmaster, Red Guardian, Melina Whatsername, Shang Chi could be added. Yelena Belova is already here. Sir Magnus has spoken! (So can you!) 15:59, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

TV Series

There's hundreds of 'MCU' TV series. Do we only do characters from the Marvel Television and Marvel Studios ones (AOS, Agent Carter, and Inhumans, and the Phase 4 ones), or include Hulu ones etc (Cloak & Dagger, Runaways, Helstrom etc), and the Netflix ones? They've mostly be declared non-canon... Do we only do crossover characters? I vote we remove the Netflix section at least, and only include characters from AOS, Carter and Inhumans if they appear in the films, as the canon surrounding them is a bit fuzzy. If we include characters from upcoming films (see previous section), then we should at least do those from upcoming Phase 4 series (Moon Knight, She Hulk, Loki etc). I know I'm opening a can o' worms here. Sir Magnus has spoken! (So can you!) 16:07, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Multiple image compromise?

I noticed one of the editors didn’t like me using template: Main using multiple images. I was using The Legend of Korra as prose. Since the editor didn’t like that. What are the thoughts of this? Using Phase One major characters as examples for the moment. It links to the character page and everything. I also feel like we need to maybe divide the introduced in a certain Phase characters for these images maybe.

The main cast members of Phase One. (top, L to R) Robert Downey Jr., Samuel L. Jackson, (center top, L to R) Scarlett Johansson, Mark Ruffalo, (center bottom, L to R) Chris Hemsworth, Tom Hiddleston, (bottom, L to R) Jeremy Renner and Chris Evans
The new additional main cast members of Phase Two include the same main cast members as before along with (top, L to R) Don Cheadle playing a more major role and new members included are Anthony Mackie, (center top, L to R) Elizabeth Olsen, Chris Pratt, (center middle, L to R) Zoe Saldana, Bradley Cooper, (center bottom, L to R) Vin Diesel, Dave Bautista, (bottom, L to R) Paul Bettany and Paul Rudd

Jhenderson 777 22:01, 26 November 2019 (UTC)

I think this is way better. That's the way I've seen it in other articles with many pictures of actors. El Millo (talk) 01:44, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
No offense but that image of Cheadle is not as good quality as the others. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 16:17, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Major characters issue

To continue our discussion on the major characters issue. There is a graph that summarizes a good perspective. I will let you decide if it's reliable or not. I feel like any source can be outdated though. Newer additions will supposedly happen. Only time will tell when we may get characters like the Celestials, Shang-Chi and even older characters like Jane Foster down the road to be updated on the list. Jhenderson 777 02:10, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Also there is this for beyond that. I am thinking that not every supporting character doesn’t need to on this list if not in this book during that time. Jhenderson 777 02:27, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
The book, Marvel Studios - The First Ten Years can also serve as helpful guide for us. ~ Jedi94 (Want to tell me something?) 04:14, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
Yes. That is my second link. :) Jhenderson 777 12:13, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
Oh whoops! Guess we both thought alike, haha. ~ Jedi94 (Want to tell me something?) 17:52, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

@Jedi94::What do you think of this too? I bought marvel studios: the first ten years and it only goes to Captain Marvel yet this one is newer and a little bit more. Jhenderson 777 01:13, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

If I read this one...it would probably be good too. Jhenderson 777 01:20, 24 November 2020 (UTC)

Inclusion criteria?

What are the inclusion criteria for this list? The minor character listings in particular seem to need some trimming. DonIago (talk) 15:39, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Well I referenced three encyclopedias up above for possible references. What do you think of them?Jhenderson 777 00:34, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
I'm not sure what possible references have to do with inclusion criteria, unless you're suggesting that we should only include characters who appear in those references? DonIago (talk) 20:22, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
Yes. That’s exactly what I mean. I thought that was clear! Jhenderson 777 00:20, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
I've never been in an inclusion criteria discussion before where a proposed solution was limiting valid entries to those that appeared in three encyclopedias. It seems a little unorthodox to me, but I'm not immediately opposed to it. I'd like to hear from other editors. DonIago (talk) 03:59, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Supporting vs. Minor

What's the criteria for being a supporting or minor character, because it seems to be super arbitrary? In particular, Destroyer and Jackson Norriss (who isn't even in the films) in supporting seem questionable, especially with some core villains only showing up in minor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nickh105 (talk • contribs) 03:29, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

@Nickh105: I’ve downgraded Destroyer (arguably not even a character) and Norris, and moved some (eg Mordo, Justin Hammer) up now. The criteria is that recurring characters who have a supporting role in multiple films and/or TV series go in ‘supporting’, characters who are supporting in just one film go in ‘minor’. IronManCap (talk) 22:42, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

Drafts

I just wanted to point out that there is a collection of MCU-related draft articles that can be found at Talk:Marvel Cinematic Universe/Drafts, and many of them could use some help from editors familiar with the MCU. Also, when creating new MCU-related articles, please be sure to add it to Category:Marvel Cinematic Universe drafts as well as Template:Marvel Cinematic Universe drafts. Thanks! InfiniteNexus (talk) 23:10, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Killmonger

Seeing Killmonger's description was very brief here, I decided to make an article for him, given his characterisation links to a lot of real-world topics such as racial justice etc, so I have started Draft:Erik Stevens (Marvel Cinematic Universe). The only issue is the name, as the character has several names (e.g. Killmonger, N’Jadaka, Erik Stevens etc.). I have already asked Facu-el Millo and Favre1fan93, and they both gave me different suggestions. I’d like to start a discussion on this, maybe with input from users such as BD2412? Thanks. IronManCap (talk) 22:34, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

  • I have a personal standard for the creation of standalone articles on MCU characters which Killmonger doesn't meet, as he only appears at all in one film. BD2412 T 23:27, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
    • I was going to say the same thing. He only appears in one film, and it's pretty likely he won't appear in any other film, given that the character died, apart from his appearance in the upcoming What If...?. —El Millo (talk) 01:14, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Well, @Facu-el Millo: and @BD2412: WP:Fictional characters says "The coverage from reliable sources should talk about the character in a way which gives its notability from a real world or out-of-universe perspective. This means they are covered as a character in general, and not in the frames of its own series of fiction." The alternative would be to expand his section on this article, which would be much needed. IronManCap (talk) 08:55, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

You're more than welcome to try and make an article, I'm just not sure that there's enough material for one, and it's unlikely there'll be much more than there already is. Generally, the more appearances one of these characters has, the more relevant information and media coverage there is about them. —El Millo (talk) 08:58, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
Ok, I think I’ll probably abandon it in that case and expand his section here. IronManCap (talk) 09:06, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Order

Which is the order to follow in this list? It seemingly is an alphabetical order but it is not 100% consistent. AxGRvS (talk) 18:28, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

I have planned to alphabetize each section, however, I have not done this for the 2nd and 3rd sections yet (Supporting Characters and Minor Characters). I believe there should also be a discussion of who belongs in "Supporting" and who belongs in "Minor". Natg 19 (talk) 18:30, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
Now that the list of the characters has been reorganized into alphabetical order, someone needs to move all of the links to MCU films and TV shows to their first occurrences (as per MOS:LINK). InfiniteNexus (talk) 21:52, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

The Blip

This is starting to get annoying, so I'm just going to put this down on the talk page. Both Thanos' snap in Avengers: Infinity War and Bruce Banner's snap in Avengers: Endgame are referred to as "the Blip", as evidenced by Episode 4 of WandaVision. In the episode, Darcy Lewis mentions that Vision is supposed to dead, "not Blipped", while Director Hayward mentions that he had lost half his personnel to "the Blip". We also see multiple newsfeeds showing people around the world celebrating "the Blip". All this indicates that both events are simply referred as the Blip, despite what Kevin Feige said over a year ago. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:50, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

  • Ok understood thank you. Kohcohf (talk) 11:44, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Note: The Blip is now live; please feel free to expand. I'm not sure how best to categorize it, and would like to include some detail on the special effects used to depict it, but can't find anything good. BD2412 T 20:56, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

I've tagged it with {{In-universe}} because it definitely needs some more real-world sourcing, and probably some reactions/commentary pieces. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:06, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

@BD2412: Maybe have some info about how the Blip was received by viewers? IronManCap (talk) 21:24, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Antagonists

@Facu-el Millo: and @InfiniteNexus: I noticed that some IPs created an ‘antagonist’ section, with a lot of characters now being in ‘antagonists’ as well as ‘main/supporting’, which could fail WP:AS. Should we just revert this, or shift all antagonists to this section? Thanks. IronManCap (talk) 09:44, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

I don't know. I think this article has been WP:TOOLONG for a while now. —El Millo (talk) 16:55, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
I guess either way could work. InfiniteNexus (talk) 22:38, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
I would think that only "primary" antagonists should be in here, but not minor antagonist characters. Natg 19 (talk) 19:00, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
@Natg 19: that’s pretty much what’s been done now. IronManCap (talk) 20:09, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
Sorry, I missed your original question. There is no reason that characters should be in both "antagonists" and "supporting" or "minor" sections. I've tried my best to remove any duplicates. Natg 19 (talk) 21:41, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Order and organization

I have to say that article features a very long list of characters and there is virtually no clear organized order to them. This is very apparent in the "Supporting characters" section where we have relatively one-note characters like Raza and Samuel Sterns appearing before Peggy Carter and Hank Pym. What or who constitutes an MCU character from being considered either a central or supporting character? Should we be ordering these characters by their film introduction, alphabetically, or divided by groups and affiliations? I noticed that for the most part there does seem to be a flow of characters appearing in order of the films they were introduced in, but it's not 100% consistent. Would definitely love to take a crack at giving this article an organization overhaul! Any suggestions? ~ Jedi94 (Want to tell me something?) 22:08, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Pinging recent active editors: @Favre1fan93:, @Jhenderson777:, @Adamstom.97:, @TriiipleThreat:, @Facu-el Millo: @BD2412:, @Gonnym:, @BD2412:, @Chompy Ace: ~ Jedi94 (Want to tell me something?) 22:17, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
I don't think film order is useful at all as a reader most likely won't know where to find the character they want without needing to either check the ToC or use a find command. Alphabetically is probably the best here. Regarding the length, it could probably be split into two lists for main and supporting. --Gonnym (talk) 22:31, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
I would agree with alphabetizing, but would actually split it into three groups. There are main characters (most of whom have separate articles at this point, or substantial drafts well underway), major supporting characters who appear across multiple films like Maria Hill or Wong or Hank Pym, and minor supporting characters who appear in only one film, or have a throwaway lines in a few films like Howard the Duck. BD2412 T 22:41, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
Let's please split this list in some way or another. This is so long and it will just keep getting longer. I know it's been rejected before, but I'm really confident we can use the Harry Potter model here: List of supporting Harry Potter characters and List of Harry Potter characters mainly, and in case we want to split them in different groups, something like Death Eater, Dumbledore's Army and Order of the Phoenix. El Millo (talk) 22:47, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
BD2412, sure that can also work. It should also be worth pointing out that characters which have their own article should only have very few lines in this article as anything else is just duplicating the main article. --Gonnym (talk) 22:50, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
While we need a “lists” article to summarize, I see the different versions like the Netflix for instance should be split off. No problem in that. Big sorry for ignoring the article. A lot going on lately. Jhenderson 777 23:56, 22 October 2020 (UTC)
This isn't an area I've been dedicating my time towards, and don't plan to much (shout out to BD2412, Jhenderson777, Gonnym, and others who have been actively doing so), but I agree that some sort of organization is needed. Happy to further weigh in if a consensus builds towards something, but BD and Facu-el Millo's initial thoughts seem promising. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 03:07, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
These are all great suggestions. My gut instinct was organizing it alphabetically too; it seems to be the most impartial method. I agree with BD2412's idea of creating distinct group sections; Major central (ex: Avengers, Stephen Strange, Guardians, Loki, and Thanos) major supporting (ex: Maria Hill, Hank Pym, Peggy Carter, Thunderbolt Ross), one-film characters (Ultron, Betty Ross, the Grandmaster), and maybe a miscellaneous fourth. As for splitting off to minimize the size of this article, I'd be onboard with that too. Characters with their own pages can be streamlined into a few short sentences for their own sections here that explain who and what the character is as succinctly as possible. The Netflix characters can definitely be split off into their own. ~ Jedi94 (Want to tell me something?) 03:09, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
FWIW, since all of the Netflix series (outside of Punisher) have character lists already, let's maybe find a more elegant way to link to those articles from here? I'd also say, focus on the Marvel Studios/films first, get those set, then move on to any incorporation of Marvel Television properties and characters. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 03:38, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
Thank you! @Favre1fan93: ~ Jedi94 (Want to tell me something?) 04:38, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
Yeah that sounds like a good road map. Another thing worth mentioning is that when a character has a section here ready, the section it has at the "comic character#Film" section and or in "character in other media" page, should also be trimmed down and pointed here. --Gonnym (talk) 09:16, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Also for any additional "groupings" we make, we have to make sure they essentially "ironclad" in that they can't be based on opinions. I'm just referencing this edit by Jhenderson777. Not saying I agree or disagree, only that you may think Shuri is a supporting character, someone else comes and says she's main, and then now we have what would likely become an unnecessary discussion if we find other qualifiers for the characters. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:39, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

All I know is that Pepper Potts, Okoye, Valkyrie and Wong were brought down when they were "main" before. So I figured she was in their level as I dont remember her as a titular protagonist or group protagonist YET. I would say stick to the titular characters and maybe even GOTG members. But it isn't so obvious. Jhenderson 777 21:57, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
We would probably need an FAQ as we have regarding the inclusion of characters in Recurring cast and characters sections. El Millo (talk) 22:14, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
Yeah probably. Can't quite think of what the criteria might be. Even if we go by starring credit, the list won't "seem" correct, seeing as how Marisa Tomei is credited as starring in Far From Home and she's barely in the film. --Gonnym (talk) 22:25, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
No, but we're talking the whole MCU. The criteria could start with title characters, then come up with something to include characters like Loki and Thanos, and perhaps Pepper and Rhodes. El Millo (talk) 22:42, 23 October 2020 (UTC)
@Jhenderson777: Wasn't trying to place any scrutiny or anything, just noticed your Shuri edit summary and thought "this could become an issue". Yes, start with the title characters for sure (and all Guardians members?) and have that be one section? And then "major supporting" or whatever for Loki, Thanos, Winter Soldier, Falcon, etc.? This will definitely probably be some trial and error, but ultimately has to be something quantifiable that isn't opinionated. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 01:35, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
Your guess is as good as mine. I do believe I used sources for the most part originally. A source that only excluded one or two characters like Carol Danvers because it was outdated. I get where you guys are coming from and of I see the issue. Maybe some kind of source or something can clear things up. I should totally look into it.Jhenderson 777 01:53, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Should we be including the "based on the Marvel Comics character of the same name" line for every character? The majority of these characters already originate from the comics anyway (with a few exceptions). Also the lead section already includes the line, "based on characters that appear in American comic books published by Marvel Comics", within the prose. ~ Jedi94 (Want to tell me something?) 04:14, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Yeah seems like it could be removed as redundant. --Gonnym (talk) 11:38, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
@Jhenderson777:, @TriiipleThreat:, @Facu-el Millo: @BD2412:, @Gonnym: @Jedi94: I found this discussion and I did some reorganization of the first "central characters" section to alphabetize by first name and group by team affiliation. For the other sections, what was the distinction between "minor" and "supporting"? and is there a good way to group these, or should they just be in a giant list? Natg 19 (talk) 01:01, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
On the "based on the Marvel Comics character", we should generally flip the presumption and only note the special status of characters original to the MCU. I had thought that there are other fictional universes in Wikipedia with distinct lists for minor characters, but they all seem to have been merged into the general character lists. BD2412 T 01:38, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Splitting the article

@Jhenderson777:, @TriiipleThreat:, @Facu-el Millo: @BD2412:, @Gonnym: @Jedi94: I have started the following drafts in an attempt to split the article:

Feel free to expand these drafts, which will mostly be copies of the relevant sections in this article. I say for the central, supporting and minor character articles we have sections by the phase they were introduced in, whilst the antagonists one can have the same structure as this article (i.e. Central, Supporting and Minor).

This article could therefore be an ‘umbrella article’ eventually with around four characters in each section. IronManCap (talk) 19:05, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

@Trailblazer101: I notice you've redirected the drafts IronManCap created. I think the goal was to try and split out this article, hence the creation of the drafts to see what that would look like. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:09, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

@Trailblazer101: I probably should have pinged you here as well, since you likely didn’t see this message. As Favre1fan93 said, the goal is to split the article, which clearly fails WP:AS (hence the note at the top). Jhenderson777 has ‘thanked’ me for this edit, whilst Facu-el Millo has made similar suggestions previously, so there is clearly some consensus for this. There is precedent for this in other franchise articles such as Harry Potter characters, as el-Millo has previously cited. Thanks. IronManCap (talk) 17:25, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Which sources class those groups of characters as 'minor' or 'supporting'? I agree that there should be seperate articles, but they should be grouped in a better way, we can't just make up character categories for article titles. I'm just going to guess there are sources claiming that the 'central characters' shown here are 'central' and the antagonists are antagonists. The Harry Potter thing seperates the main characters and the supporting characters. Sources would say the main characters are main and the other characters are considered supporting. Limorina (talk) 17:55, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Good to see you here, Limorina. About sources, I’ll just put some here: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6]. It’s mostly just WP:Common Sense and WP:consensus (e.g. I don’t think anyone would dispute that Iron Man is a central character). IronManCap (talk) 18:12, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Ah, I apologize. I don't actually watch this article, so I was unaware of the split. I'm not big on these character lists, but I will support these content splits now that I am aware of them. Trailblazer101 (talk) 18:18, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

The Harry Potter characters are divided as such: first, the characters that have their own articles (Harry Potter, Ron Weasley, Hermione Granger, etc.), then there's List of supporting Harry Potter characters for those that don't have their own articles and aren't grouped with others in any meaningful way. Then there's Dumbledore's Army, Order of the Phoenix, Hogwarts staff, Death Eaters and the section "Ministry officials" of Ministry of Magic, where other characters are grouped. There's also a the section "Characters" of Magical creatures in Harry Potter, and the sections "Family" and "Hagrid's pets" of Rubeus Hagrid. Lastly, there's List of Harry Potter characters, which lists every one of these characters alphabetically with a minimal one-line description. Now, of course we don't need to follow this, but we can take a thing or two from it. —El Millo (talk) 18:24, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

@Jhenderson777:, @TriiipleThreat:, @Facu-el Millo: @BD2412:, @Gonnym: @Jedi94:, @Trailblazer101:, @Limorina: Any comments on the ‘central characters’ draft atm? IronManCap (talk) 22:21, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Almost all the characters listed there have individual articles, so most of that is unnecessary. The only ones that don't are Hope van Dyne and the Guardians, except for Drax who has an individual article as well. We should either wait for these to get promoted to main space, or put their sections in Draft:Guardians of the Galaxy (Marvel Cinematic Universe) and just promote Hope van Dyne to mainspace. Then, there's no need for a "central characters" article. —El Millo (talk) 22:27, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
@Facu-el Millo: I agree the descriptions could be shortened due to the main articles, but I don’t see how the Guardians descriptions could be added to the Guardians draft, as there isn’t really any room for them there unless we create a new section. The point is this article is only bound to get longer as time passes, so it’s a good idea to split out the sections, I would think. It’s also clearer and easier to follow for more casual viewers and readers if we separate by character importance, rather than by in-universe teams. IronManCap (talk) 22:32, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
I'm saying it's unnecessary to have an article centered on the central characters, because most of them have individual articles. As for the Guardians, yes, the draft should be reformatted to focus on the individual characters. —El Millo (talk) 22:51, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
Well Gamora, Quill and Drax now have articles, and Rocket, Nebula and Groot probably will soon too. That leaves just Mantis, so there isn’t really a point of a Guardians article, maybe we should just shorten the descriptions here instead. IronManCap (talk) 20:48, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

I would actually split the per alphabet like:

Central, antagonist, supporting and minor are subjective terms. This method leaves out the POV. Also WP:ANTAGONIST may apply.—TriiipleThreat (talk) 23:34, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

I also prefer not having subjective terms as they are -very- POV dependent. Regarding the characters that already have an article, they should still be in these articles, just with -very- short descriptions. --Gonnym (talk) 23:45, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
There are also some minor characters in here that have no more than one or two lines of information, and shouldn't have their own sections. I seriously suggest the one-line approach of List of Harry Potter characters (with reliable sources, of course) for all characters, and then a more comprehensive "List of supporting Marvel Cinematic Universe characters", for which we can create an FAQ with an agreed-upon criteria, in order for it to be the least subjective it can be. —El Millo (talk) 21:20, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
I agree that we should avoid subjective terms for these character listings, as they can vary from character to character, ex. Loki. I feel a List of main Marvel Cinematic Universe characters and List of supporting Marvel Cinematic Universe characters articles could suffice, as we can determine which characters go where. The "central characters" can honestly be a sub-section of the "main characters" and have franchise leading characters and prominent characters, both "good guys" and "bad guys" and the like, meaning "antagonists" would be merged into either one to be objective. "Minor characters" and "supporting characters" can honestly be merged together, but we should be cognizant in which characters we deem notable or necessary for inclusion in these, based on appearances and the like. We can also have a List of Marvel Cinematic Universe groups article for teams, organizations, and the like, and these can all work smoothly with the Features of the Marvel Cinematic Universe article. An alphabetized list would be preferred, but I feel it would become seriously overcrowded like this article already has. Plus, we can try to maintain an alphabetical order in each of these articles, outside of the more prominent characters. Trailblazer101 (talk) 13:14, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
Adding onto that, we could also do a Species of the Marvel Cinematic Universe article. Trailblazer101 (talk) 13:17, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
This seems like the same suggestion as the OP just with "List of" added to the title. It doesn't solve the POV problem. The alphabetized solution can always be broken down further as needed if it becomes to crowded by making a smaller range like List of Marvel Cinematic Universe characters: A - D or a specific letter like List of Marvel Cinematic Universe characters: A. See Lists of Marvel Comics characters for examples in comics.--TriiipleThreat (talk) 14:12, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
There will be no POV problem regarding who's main and who's supporting if we come up with a comprehensive criteria in an FAQ, as we've done in many other instances. About the "Main characters article", every character there will already have an article of their own, thus there's no purpose for it. We should try to comment more on one another's proposals instead of just coming up with new ones. That said, the "Groups" list and the "Species" article sound like it could be a good way of splitting it more. We could put characters that are mainly recognized as being part of either SHIELD, Hydra, or other organizations directly in the "Groups" list instead of in a "supporting characters" list. —El Millo (talk) 18:06, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
@Facu-el Millo: I think you’re suggesting that we keep the ‘central characters’ section here how it is, with very brief one-line descriptions due to the main articles. I think that could work, with only the ones without main articles having substantial descriptions. Same could be done for supporting characters. About the FAQ for supporting characters, maybe we should do it off number of RS referring to them as ‘supporting’. I would otherwise say do it off appearances, but then Stan Lee’s character and Howard the Duck would count. IronManCap (talk) 15:31, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
I'm suggesting having one-line descriptions about every character here, so that they can be more developed elsewhere. Some characters are more developed in their individual article, others will be more developed in a "supporting characters" article, others will be in the "Groups" article, and the minor characters probably don't need or deserve (WP:UNDUEWEIGHT) more than what would be provided here, one or two lines at best. That way we'll be splitting off this huge article into smaller, more manageable lists and articles, while still keeping at least a small description for even minor characters. —El Millo (talk) 16:46, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
Not all characters will have their own articles or even fit into other articles. I don’t see the need to be that minimalistic, as long as we get this article back into the criteria of WP:AS, it will be fine. There are already a lot of redirects for characters to relevant sections anyway. For instance, Killmonger and Ultron, though notable, are unlikely to ever get articles, and there is no ‘groups’ article they could fit into, unless there was an antagonists article, but that brings the WP:ANTAGONIST problem. The best thing to to do would be to retain their descriptions here, therefore. Ones with ‘main articles’ can be shortened, we can have ‘main article’ templates linking to relevant info on a groups article, e.g. for Alex Pierce, a shortened description with:
Main article: Alexander Pierce (Marvel Cinematic Universe)
which redirects to Hydra (Marvel Cinematic Universe)#Alexander Pierce. IronManCap (talk) 17:11, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
We can conceive of an effective way to group them. We could list Killmonger under "Wakandans" or something like that. The only places I can think of putting Ultron on are perhaps as a section in Vision (Marvel Cinematic Universe) or under Artificial Intelligences in Draft:Features of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, which will have to be tackled soon if we don't make a clear criteria for it. Either way, the main reason to do the one-line descriptions for me was to get rid of so many short sections (a character as minor as, e.g., Stakar Ogord can do with just a bullet point) and then list them alphabetically. —El Millo (talk) 17:35, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

@Facu-el Millo: I meant to say that not every character needs to go on a different article. The ones that can, should (I gave the Alex Pierce example, others like Talos and Yon-Rogg also work). The ones that don’t (e.g. Ultron) can retain descriptions here, I don’t see a problem with that. IronManCap (talk) 12:43, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

@Jhenderson777:, @TriiipleThreat:, @Facu-el Millo: @BD2412:, @Gonnym: @Jedi94:, @Trailblazer101:, @Limorina: Any comments on the 'List of supporting characters' draft atm? Is it viable or doable? IronManCap (talk) 23:28, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

I know I am pretty inactive and all. I do feel though that any kind of split is doable for the article. I welcome any other opinions on how it done. Jhenderson 777 23:38, 1 April 2021 (UTC)
I am thinking that perhaps we start by splitting the Earth-based characters and the non-Earth-based characters. The one trepidation I have about that is that it would separate Thor from the rest of the Avengers, but the films have now done that to a substantial degree as well. BD2412 T 04:13, 2 April 2021 (UTC)
I have come to the view that creating main articles for all the central characters might be the best way to go about this, allowing us to shorten that section. Only Groot, Hope van Dyne and Nebula remain, and they will have articles pretty soon. Others such as Peggy Carter, Pepper Potts and Shuri are notable enough too for their own articles. Maybe there isn’t a need for a split, but rather to condense the article and contain info about characters on groups articles like Facu-el Millo said. IronManCap (talk) 21:34, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

It's alphabetized by First name. Should it be alphabetized by Last name?

Within each section, the entries on this page are alphabetized by First name. Would it make more sense to alphabetize them by last name instead? What does everyone think? (Obviously, for characters with only one name, or for whom only one name is known, they'd be alphabetized by that name.) Paintspot Infez (talk) 02:56, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Of course. Always last name if available. —El Millo (talk) 03:45, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
I disagree with alphabetizing by last name, as it is harder for users to navigate. But either way is better than the original versions, which were just had no organization structure. Natg 19 (talk) 16:22, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
The original way was chronological first appearance. But I see that being too complicated. Jhenderson 777 17:33, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
Honestly, given that most things on Wikipedia are organized by surname, this first-name ordering is a bit counter-intuitive. For example, it's pretty odd (and kind of preposterous) to order "Karl Mordo" under "Karl" and not "Mordo", or "Helmut Zemo" under "Helmut" and not "Zemo". Additionally, organizing by last name would allow for related characters with the name last name (like Billy and Tommy Maximoff, or Isaiah and Eli Bradley) to be next to each other. Paintspot Infez (talk) 21:19, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
Also, organizing by last name would make this page consistent with the ordering on lists like List of Marvel Comics characters, and other MCU lists like List of Marvel Cinematic Universe film actors (The Infinity Saga) (etc.). Last name 100% makes more sense here. ADDITIONALLY, there's more families of characters than meets the eye. With alphabetizing by surname, the Bradleys, Carters, the Maximoff kids, Ogords, minor Starks, and Vankos are right next to each other. Paintspot Infez (talk) 22:15, 7 April 2021 (UTC)

Notability of characters

As a watcher (and occasional editor) of this page, I've been noticing a lot of editors adding extremely minor characters to this page. What should be the criteria of being included on this page (even in the "Minor characters" section)? For example, I don't think Abu Bakaar, Bereet, Brad Davis, or Julius Dell merit inclusion on this page.

Pinging @IronManCap, Paintspot, InfiniteNexus, BD2412, SputnikXX, Facu-el Millo, and Sir Magnus: for greater discussion. Natg 19 (talk) 18:40, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

I agree. Let's not get ridiculous, here. BD2412 T 18:43, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
Common sense can be the criteria. I'd avoid getting too technical. Move them to the minor characters draft if they aren't already there. We can discuss here which specific ones to take out. Sir Magnus has spoken! (So can you!)
Same here, we don't need an entire list of every character who has ever appeared in the MCU. There is Draft:List of minor Marvel Cinematic Universe characters as an attempted split, where characters can be transferred. I think Brad Davis is vaguely notable for inclusion, but the others certainly are not. IronManCap (talk) 18:55, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
Oh and of course, Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. IronManCap (talk) 18:58, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
Agreed. You can easily determine which characters are notable enough for inclusion by using common sense. For example, characters who adds very little weight to the MCU should not be included. InfiniteNexus (talk) 19:12, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
I agree with "common sense", but is there a defined standard that we should use? Like on the regular billing, etc? Some editors seem to have a different view of "common sense" than we do. Natg 19 (talk) 19:13, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
Ouch... How about being a minor character in multiple films (such as Howard the Duck, etc), secondary character/main villain in one D+ series (Agatha Harkness, Hayward), or supporting in one film (Tinkerer)? Sir Magnus has spoken! (So can you!) 20:32, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
We may need an FAQ for this. Generally I would say have characters who have a significant impact on the plot (e.g. Morgan Stark). IronManCap (talk) 20:54, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
Sorry if I sounded harsh, but I just feel that there are different opinions on who belongs and who does not. For example, I would not include any of the "other Ravagers" because they have < 5 min of screentime and play no significant role in GotG2 (even though they are portrayed by major actors), but others may disagree. Natg 19 (talk) 22:14, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
Those can be removed from here and included in Major teams and organizations of the Marvel Cinematic Universe#Stakar Ogord's team, mentioned in prose of course, not as subsections. —El Millo (talk) 22:18, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

Updates

Some of the characters' info needs to be updated on this page. I'm trying my best, but I don't know how to add references. Would someone be kind enough to add the required references next to my edits? Thanks. Samudragupta007 (talk) 01:03, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

Hope van Dyne

Anyone (especially an admin like @BD2412:) thinks maybe that Draft:Hope van Dyne is ready for mainspace? I realize it needs admin intervention to move and am trying to establish a fair consensus on it. Avoid the original move booboo lol. Jhenderson 777 01:21, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

It looks more ready for mainspace that many of the MCU-character articles that already are in mainspace. —El Millo (talk) 01:44, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
Wow thanks. When I try to prove GNG...I tend to go out if I can.Jhenderson 777 02:07, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
Yes, it looks pretty good to me. IronManCap (talk) 12:16, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
@Jhenderson777: I've done a bit of cleanup and submitted it for review. IronManCap (talk) 14:55, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
Also pinging page movers @Favre1fan93 and Adamstom.97: for their opinions on the readiness of the draft. IronManCap (talk) 15:19, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
Alright good job guys. It’s in mainspace now. I guess we could use an main image at some point. Jhenderson 777 17:07, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
@Jhenderson777:  Done. IronManCap (talk) 17:35, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Potential new format

What about this? Doable? It sure would shorten the article I feel. Using the first six Avengers for example? Jhenderson 777 23:57, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

Founding Avengers members
Character Code name(s) Marvel Comics adaptation Appearances Portrayed by
Clint Barton Hawkeye Hawkeye
(by Stan Lee and Don Heck)		 Thor (cameo)
The Avengers
Avengers: Age of Ultron
Captain America: Civil War
Avengers: Endgame
Jeremy Renner
Bruce Banner Hulk Hulk
(by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby)		 The Incredible Hulk
The Avengers
Iron Man 3 (post-credits cameo)
Avengers: Age of Ultron
Thor: Ragnarok
Avengers: Infinity War
Captain Marvel(mid-credits cameo)
Avengers: Endgame
Edward Norton

Mark Ruffalo
Steve Rogers Captain America Captain America
(by Jack Kirby and Joe Simon)		 Captain America: The First Avenger
The Avengers
Thor: The Dark World (cameo)
Captain America: The Winter Soldier
Avengers: Age of Ultron
Ant-Man (post-credit, cut-down scene cameo)
Captain America: Civil War
Spider-Man: Homecoming
Avengers: Infinity War
Captain Marvel (mid-credit cameo)
Avengers: Endgame
Chris Evans
Tony Stark Iron Man Iron Man
(created by Stan Lee, Larry Lieber, Don Heck and Jack Kirby)		 Iron Man
The Incredible Hulk (cameo)
Iron Man 2
The Avengers
Iron Man 3
Avengers: Age of Ultron
Captain America: Civil War
Spider-Man: Homecoming
Avengers: Infinity War
Avengers: Endgame
Spider-Man: Far From Home (archive footage)
Robert Downey Jr.
Natasha Romanoff Black Widow Black Widow
(created by Stan Lee, Don Rico and Don Heck)		 Iron Man 2
The Avengers
Captain America: The Winter Soldier
Avengers: Age of Ultron
Captain America: Civil War
Thor: Ragnarok (archive footage)
Avengers: Infinity War
Captain Marvel (mid-credit cameo)
Avengers: Endgame
Scarlett Johansson
Thor N/A Thor (by Stan Lee, Larry Lieber and Jack Kirby) Thor
The Avengers
Thor: The Dark World
Avengers: Age of Ultron
Doctor Strange (mid-credit, cut-down scene cameo)
Thor: Ragnarok
Avengers: Infinity War
Avengers: Endgame
Chris Hemsworth
  • I'm not a fan. My issue with that is as follows: Most of the characters in the MCU don't have a codename so that column will be empty for most. Images of the actors is also something that I found unuseful as it's not an image from the MCU but from comic-con (because of fair-use). Those images, while nice, don't really offer anything a link to the actor's article doesn't. But more importantly, that table has no place for prose. Not every character has an article, and most likely, the majority won't. --Gonnym (talk) 00:11, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
    • Me neither. I think the idea of splitting the article is the way to go. And the main characters is the least of our worries, because there's few of them and most if not all of them already have articles of their own. Our focus should be in how to deal with the mountains of supporting characters. El Millo (talk) 00:18, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
      • Also not a fan of the table. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 01:36, 24 October 2020 (UTC)
        • The code name part I see the point and it was just a random addition. Another point is I think we can summarize the more major characters as they already have articles. They don't need too much detail like the minor characters do and this article tells a lot of the same stuff. I am not against no split for the minor characters. Just saying we can trim the major characters with what is already said. With something at least. Jhenderson 777 01:41, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

I agree that the codename and adaptation is not needed, can always be under Character, but I love the table format, makes the article much more readable and easier to see how many and which films each character appeared in. We can even sort by the number of appearances. Jmj713 (talk) 02:51, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

I personally think this would be good when if all the major characters did have all the articles. Seems like they just need a summary. Jhenderson 777 00:38, 1 January 2021 (UTC)
At this point I think all of the most significant characters do have articles. Also, I would not include the one-picture actors for parts that were recast. If images are to be used at all, I would just show the primary actor, and indicate the other as "not shown". BD2412 T 20:03, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Maybe the adaption part is not necessary oor the images but Code name is essential because even because many main characters have changed their code names (like Sam Wilson from Falcon to Captain America, like Bucky Barnes from Winter Soldier to White Wolf and back to Winter Soldier. And many will in the future if you read the comics so I thinks its essential in the table. Ringardiumleviossa (talk) 07:05, 30 April 2021 (UTC)

I think that something like the following could easily account for code names, even multiple code names, without requiring an additional column.
Founding Avengers members
Character Marvel Comics adaptation Appearances Portrayed by
Clint Barton
(Hawkeye, 2008-Present;
[second code name would go here];
[third])		 Hawkeye
(by Stan Lee and Don Heck)		 Thor (cameo)
The Avengers
Avengers: Age of Ultron
Captain America: Civil War
Avengers: Endgame
Jeremy Renner

Guardians of the Galaxy characters

Drax (Marvel Cinematic Universe) has been published (not my preferred order), and drafts are underway for the remaining GOTG characters. I would appreciate if the rest were addressed and published in their approximate order of billing and/or appearance in the films:

  1. Draft:Peter Quill (Marvel Cinematic Universe)
  2. Draft:Gamora (Marvel Cinematic Universe)
  3. Draft:Rocket (Marvel Cinematic Universe)
  4. Draft:Groot (Marvel Cinematic Universe)
  5. Draft:Nebula (Marvel Cinematic Universe)
  6. Draft:Mantis (Marvel Cinematic Universe)

Cheers! BD2412 T 23:45, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

In my opinion, Nebula and Mantis do not have independent notability, but the the others definitely do. Natg 19 (talk) 00:08, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
Mantis is probably the most questionable, but is expected to appear in two upcoming films. If the character is given more to do, that may change things. Nebula has appeared in four films now, with a substantial and pivotal role in Avengers: Endgame (which was almost completely separate from her activities with respect to the Guardians of the Galaxy). I have no doubt that Nebula is independently notable, but neither am I in any hurry to move either of these to mainspace. BD2412 T 00:25, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

Quill and Gamora definitely need articles, Rocket and Nebula are maybes. Maybe hold off on Groot till his series is aired. I don’t see how Mantis is notable atm. IronManCap (talk) 19:26, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

I would definitely agree on having Quill and Gamora as the focus of our efforts. Frankly, I would have waited to publish Drax (Marvel Cinematic Universe), but others were eager to move it to mainspace and have pushed it out there. Rocket is pretty clearly the third most important character in the series behind Quill and Gamora, and like Nebula figured more substantially in Endgame. There are also some mocap and other FX details specific to that character, so I have no question about the independent notability of the character. BD2412 T 20:42, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
Groot is definitely notable to me, and there was a lot of merchandising for him. Natg 19 (talk) 01:57, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
Perhaps, but we need to get them in shape first either way. BD2412 T 02:06, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
@BD2412: Aren’t the Quill and Gamora articles ready for publishing now? I don’t see a reason to delay them any further, unless someone does a comprehensive review. IronManCap (talk) 20:29, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
I have gone over Peter Quill (Marvel Cinematic Universe), and published it. I will look at Gamora now. BD2412 T 23:33, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
Both done. Images needed. BD2412 T 00:18, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
@BD2412: Images added, thanks btw. Rocket’s article also looks about finished, but there’s no need to rush that into the mainspace if you don’t want. The others still need a bit of work. IronManCap (talk) 21:16, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
On second inspection, even Rocket’s needs some minor attention. IronManCap (talk) 21:18, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
I have improved it further. I don't know that I would call it a finished piece, but probably ready for mainspace. BD2412 T 01:08, 26 March 2021 (UTC)

@BD2412: I have done the ‘reception' section for the Groot article, and it seems ready for mainspace. IronManCap (talk) 21:16, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

@IronManCap: I am Groot. BD2412 T 22:28, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
@BD2412: I am Groot (meaning thanks). IronManCap (talk) 22:29, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
@IronManCap: I am Groot! BD2412 T 22:34, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
@BD2412: Carrying on in this order, Draft:Nebula (Marvel Cinematic Universe) now looks ready for mainspace. IronManCap (talk) 01:57, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
Even so, I would rather have a community consensus that the character is significant enough to merit a mainspace article before moving it. BD2412 T 02:01, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
My consensus is that it looked ready enough. Hoping for Mantis too to be on the spotlight some time. Jhenderson 777 02:45, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
I would say she is notable as one of the MCU's only antihero arcs, with sources included to say that, with the only other notable MCU antihero being Loki. As the sources show, Nebula is also the only character to go from villain to full hero, making her particularly notable. She's also the last 'central character' per this article without an article. Gillan has received quite a lot of attention for her performance, and the character is even more discussed than some of the other Guardians like Drax, Rocket and Groot, due to her rare villain-to-hero arc. IronManCap (talk) 03:31, 2 May 2021 (UTC)
I'm convinced. Moved to mainspace. An image is needed. BD2412 T 04:46, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

Valkyrie (Marvel Cinematic Universe)

Since Valkyrie (Marvel Cinematic Universe) redirects here at this time, I wanted to notify editors here that I've put a potential reference to use on the redirect's talk page as seen here: Talk:Valkyrie (Marvel Cinematic Universe). Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 19:09, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

@Erik: I'm going to start a draft for this character, as she seems potentially notable for a standalone. IronManCap (talk) 19:24, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
Great! Good luck. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 19:35, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
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