Talk:Battle of Castlehaven

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Battle of Castlehaven article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Ireland Low‑importance

	Ireland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ireland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ireland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IrelandWikipedia:WikiProject IrelandTemplate:WikiProject IrelandIreland articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: Maritime / British / European / Spanish / Early Modern Start‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

Start

This article has been rated as Start-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion not met

Associated task forces:
/
	Maritime warfare task force
	British military history task force
	European military history task force
	Spanish military history task force
	Early Modern warfare task force (c. 1500 – c. 1800)

Complete rewrite needed[edit]

While this article is admirably written, it is very inaccurate and based entirely on Levison's vague report, which some scholars have been guilty of relying upon, unaware of the other accounts or disregarding them. For a quick and useful summary of the sources see,[1] and then [2] for a longer discussion. Better to go with the actual accounts in this case, all three of which are easily found online. Donal Cam O'Sullivan Beare isn't even mentioned in this article yet. Since you have it in two important templates I'm going to have to tag it for now. I like your work so please don't take this personally. You've just been misled.

All that said, after comparing the accounts I should modify the language I use in Donal II O'Donovan, based entirely on Philip O'Sullivan Beare's account, received from his uncle. DinDraithou (talk) 18:26, 20 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

See here.[3] DinDraithou (talk) 18:40, 20 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In Munster at War (p. 114),[4] Barry O'Brien believes O'Sullivan Beare's account is the more reliable, also noting that "Castlehaven and its castles remained in Spanish-Irish" possession. Two more sources: [5][6] DinDraithou (talk) 19:18, 20 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

One more.[7] DinDraithou (talk) 00:34, 21 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure a whole rewrite is needed. The article is relatively accurate enough. It just needs more sources and input about the O'Sullivan's role in greeting the Spaniards arrival and their support.

Leveson's attack on the Spanish ships was more or less a success. There is some confusion it seems over Leveson's objective. He states that he intended to attack the Spanish vessels and then return to Kinsale but there is no mention of an assault on the shore and the castle. The tow boats were not attacking the shore since their job was towing the warships to put them into a position to engage the vessels. As it was they were towing the warships because there was hardly any wind to use the sail. Perhaps then the witnesses thought that this was an attack and the heavy fire that they brought indicated this illusion of being repelled. It seems feasible and the boats towed the ships out under heavy fire once the Spanish ships were beached or dealt with. Foobfairbanks (talk) 22:05, 21 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I still think a near total rewrite is needed. Objective is everything. And we have three accounts to work with, the article relying almost all on one, and it the most vague. A number of the details seem to be the work and estimates of the authors of the secondary sources cited. Of those actually cited only Silke and McGurk can be considered reliable modern secondary sources, but in scholarship they are opposed by Falls and O'Brien, so we have a debate. The best way to write an article when this happens is to focus on our primary sources and their reliability. DinDraithou (talk) 05:26, 24 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]