Talk:Ariana Grande/Archive 8

Recent image

I don't think the latest picture is suitable at all. She looks very awkward in it, like she's about to cry. Also, this pic is taken from a YouTube short, that shows her doing a tutorial for the Vogue channel. It doesn't even look like her, as her hair and eyebrows are bleached. Not appropriate at all. You would think, she's an influencer, not a musical artist.

I would replace it, with an older image, that shows her performing on of her tours. She has her cat-ears one, which is one of her signature looks, and it shows her as a performer. I don't think, that just because an image is recent, it automatically has to be the lead image.

I'm kinda stumped, that there are no other recent images of hers. Grande hasn't been doing much since 2020, but not even an image of on of her last tour in 2019?

It would be great if someone could come with alternatives, at best from the timeline 2020-2023, so it could also be included in the Positions/Wicked section. Still thanks, for PHShanghai for at least making an effort. Mirrored7 (talk) 12:26, 7 November 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for being cordial about the whole image change. I do agree though that its not.. a comfortable looking image. But it's recent and the current lede image is objectively far worse imo because she looks way different now than she did in 2014. Like, different hair, different look, etc. Maybe something from the Sweetener/TUN era makes far more sense as a lead image. PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 15:43, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

The 2020 Grammy picture was probably the best she's ever had. It's a shame it was deleted. It was perfect, especially because it shows her for the period between 2019 and this decade. What strikes me is that the selection of photos of her is very limited, especially compared to her contemporaries. There isn't even a good quality one of her last tour. It's strange because she's one of the leading contemporary artists right now. I hope there is someone who can upload some recent pictures, preferably one of her at an event like an awards ceremony or photo shoot. Another problem is that Grande hasn't been active in recent years. Her last red carpet appearance was at the 2020 Grammys. That makes it even harder.

I've already explained why I chose the 2015 image, but yes, I agree that's not appropriate either. It's just a placeholder until there's a better option. Mirrored7 (talk) 09:44, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

This image is the ugliest shit I've seen from her, lol. She deserves better. Andrei Reginatto 18 (talk) 01:29, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

This may be a stretch, but could we get a screenshot of one of her Yours Truly 10th anniversary performances and use a non-free rationale and state how her face has changed since, and no free alternatives (from the 2020s) is available? Beulagpinkeu (talk) 13:39, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Maybe we could use a photo of Grande's 2018 God is a Woman live performance at the VMA's? Asknaffffwiki (talk) 04:16, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Or, this image? (Grande performing Save Your Tears with the Weeknd in May 2021) https://www.vogue.com/article/ariana-grande-iheartradio-music-awards-affordable-fashion Asknaffffwiki (talk) 22:44, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Backtracking on this, it is not available for use Asknaffffwiki (talk) 22:53, 20 January 2024 (UTC)

Image

Okay, so I searched through Wikipedia commons, and there are tons of 2017 photos of Grande from her Dangerous Woman Tour, some dark, however some bright also. I was thinking of [file] Asknaffffwiki (talk) 07:58, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

My fault, the file's name is

File:Ariana Grande (33269922295) (cropped) (cropped).jpg

It's a bright photo, has Grande in her signature ponytail, and she looks happy singing. Asknaffffwiki (talk) 07:59, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 January 2024: Blurry Image

The info box images is blurry, (and no, it's not because of my vision), I request that someone changes the image, either to one that is more clear, or to one that is more recent as this image is from 2015, 9 years have passed since then. 174.94.54.119 (talk) 18:03, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

@174.94.54.119 We would change it, but a problem is that no images of Grande after 2018 are available for use. We could use images from the Dangerous Woman Tour, but I would ask Mirrored7 about that. AskeeaeWiki (talk) 23:42, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 February 2024

Although I am not a main English language contributor, nevertheless could you grant me to wright onto this page plz ? You can check my User contributions in french language. I contrib over 2,500 edit counts.

Best regards. Xuvier (talk) 17:30, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone may add them for you. Sincerely, Guessitsavis (she/they) (Talk) 21:29, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 6 February 2024

Why is her image from 2013? It needs to be updated. That was literally 11 years ago. Johnson6502 (talk) 08:14, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 23:26, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Lead section too long? I think not

Krimuk2.0, if you think the lead section is too long, please suggest ways to shorten it. I don't think it's too long myself, nor does Livelikemusic, apparently. The response from Mirrored7 was somewhat more amenable to shortening the lead, so let's talk about it. Binksternet (talk) 14:00, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Ultimately, per WP:LEAD, lead paragraphs should be should contain no more than four well-composed paragraphs and be carefully sourced as appropriate, although it is common for citations to appear in the body and not the lead. If it were me, to consolidate, I would remove fluff information, such as song titles and the names of her collaborators, and the listing of individual awards for albums and / or songs. It seems like a lot of non-neutral point of view from fans. livelikemusic (TALK!) 14:04, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Taylor Swift and Lady Gaga's pages do a perfect job of summing up their careers in the lead without overwhelming the reader. I think the goal should be that. Krimuk2.0 (talk) 17:45, 31 January 2024 (UTC)

Personally, I also think that the lead is too long and should be shortened. However, the content should remain the same. I disagree that the lead has non-neutral point of view too. The content is supported by reliable sources, which are included in the body of the article. I also don't understand the warning on my talk page, Livelikemusic.

My intentions aren't bad at all, I'm just not as familiar with the rules like you are. Also, Discussions about Her occupations being a businesswoman and a record producer I find pointless, as there are enough sources for it to include it in the lead. Mirrored7 (talk) 22:49, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

I saw this discussion open and wanted to share my thoughts. I agree with Likelikemusic that the lead is way too long, as per WP:LEAD. The bulk of the information is good, but there is way too much fluff information that can make reading it difficult for users. For example, we don't have to list every record Grande has broken in her career with whatever album is being discussed. Simply saying "broke several records" is sufficient. Since all of Grande's albums are rooted in pop and R&B, we don't have to constantly point that out. I like how Yours Truly, My Everything, Sweetener, and Thank U, Next describes its influences instead.

Also, Mirrored7, when discussing what occupations to include in the lead, Wikipedia prefers if we only list a subject's primary occupations in the lead. You can happily add record producer and businesswoman in her infobox, because these are a part of her occupation and there are plenty of sources to prove it, but they are not her primary occupations. "Singer, songwriter and actress" are fine as is. Lady Gaga, for example, has also ventured into business and has her own cosmetics line. But "businesswoman" is not in her lead section. It would be in her infobox, while her primary occupations, which are the same as Grande's, are featured. DiaMali (talk) 04:04, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your contribution. I just made slight lead changes. If you don't agree with them, it would be great to discuss them here with you. Mirrored7 (talk) 17:04, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

No problem! I'm more than happy to discuss them here with you.

There are a couple of things that I suggest we update or take out and add to the body, if it wasn't added already. The line "Grande is one of the most streamed artists of all time and the most streamed female artist, as of 2021" could be removed to just reflect her being the most streamed woman from the 2010s decade on Spotify. The most streamed woman, currently, is Taylor Swift. Also, according to the accompanying article, Grande is currently the seventh-most-followed person on Instagram. DiaMali (talk) 22:13, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

When I think about it, the lenght is actually very standard. The Justin Bieber and Rihanna leads have around the same, former even has five paragraphs. Like I said, maybe some sentences should be shortened and better summarized, but at the end, it's not really that big of a deal. Mirrored7 (talk) 06:30, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

As previously noted — per {{Infobox person}} and the hidden note within the lead, it states: Occupation(s) as given in the lead, so including anything outside of singer, songwriter, and actress is inappropriate. Infoboxes are meant to provide overviews, much like leads, and are not meant to be a fan-driven POV of jobs. livelikemusic (TALK!) 14:14, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

Stop the peacocking

A die hard fan of Ariana Grande keep making the edit wars with too many peacocking.

“Regarded as a pop culture icon, she is noted as an influential figure in popular music and as one of the most prominent vocalists of her generation for her four-octave vocal range and signature whistle register.”

really? There is no source was citied. And even if trustworthy sources say she is , there is no reason for a “WIKIPEDIA” page to have this much of glorification. Hundreds of sources say Michael Jackson is the greatest entertainer of all time. Does that mean it should be all included in the lead sentence? Keep it neutral Phạm Huy Thông (talk) 16:40, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

If you read the article precisely, you would see that it's supported by reliable sources. Why it shouldn't be in the lead, if there are multiple sources stating it? It should be removed, because you personally don't agree with it? I always try my best to stay objective, that's why I'm also trying to have a discussion with you. Mirrored7 (talk) 17:17, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Apologies

I made a bad call when reviewing this article. I am very sorry. Please know that your article has not failed. Please feel free to re-nominate this article. Sorry, PhotoEditor123 (talk) 23:43, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 7 March 2024

Melaniawagner (talk) 23:30, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

In 2023, she began dating fellow actor Ethan Slator, known for his role as Spongebob on Broadway.

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Jamedeus (talk) 23:52, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

New Version of Lead Section

AGF, WP:PUFFERY, It is not necessary to indicate several times that Grande has broken the same records such as "broke many Billboard records as artist or albums" for the reduction of information in the lead section, mentioning 35 "Guinness" world records in the accolades section is enough, the fact that the records are indicated three times in the lead section looks very  puffed. I suggest you write that "Grande is one of the most-streamed artists of all time, and holds several records on Spotify, Apple Music, and Vevo", and also in the awards section indicate that "she holds 35 Guinness World Records", this will be enough and people will able to study her records for themselves. 

It is enough to write "She has been featured in listicles" and people liking on the listicles can get learned with all listicles where Grande was featured, it is enough to write only the most important one to shorten the lead section leaving only the Billboard as "the most successful female artist to debut in the 2010s" and "Woman of the Year in 2018".

It makes no sense to point out that Grande was once most followed female on Instagram, these records have been broken by other people for a long time, it is enough to write that Grande is now the fourth-most-followed person on Instagram, we specified 35 "Guinness" world records, therefore, this record is not necessary to write in the lead section for this old record there is a section of achievement, plus it is included in the Guinness World Records.

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 15 March 2024

Change spouse since she is officially divorced as of 2023. 194.230.147.220 (talk) 16:40, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: If you are referring to the infobox at the beginning of the article, the text already has dates that indicate when the marriage began and ended. If you're not referring to the infobox, please indicate where within the article the text that you want changed is. Thank you. Aoi (青い) (talk) 17:12, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 26 March 2024

Change her photo an updated one from the 2024 Oscars Red Carpet 2601:46:382:D980:2907:E095:777C:33A5 (talk) 08:02, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

 Not done for now: Looks like there was just a discussion about changing the photo, directly above this section, so this request is unlikely to be uncontroversial. I have no objection to an image change personally. Tollens (talk) 09:32, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Occupations

Livelikemusic, you have already warned me a few times on my talk page. You have to know that I have no bad intentions with my changes. I'm just very confused because other artists like Beyoncé or Taylor Swift also have occupations in their infoboxes listed, which aren't in their lead. DiaMali has already agreed for including businesswoman and record producer to her occupations. For both are also reliable sources, so I don't really understand what speaks against it. Mirrored7 (talk) 17:02, 28 February 2024 (UTC)

After this edit, which indicated that there was "consensus on the talk page" for including additional fields beyond what is in the lead, I took a look here to see what consensus there was. I don't see a consensus for this in this thread. I'll note here, as I did in my edit summary: per Template:Infobox person/doc, [the infobox] field is supposed to match what is in the lead. I looked (waaaaay) back through the edit history to see when this was undone previously and see that Livelikemusic removed this for the exact same reason. Again, I don't see any consensus to include this in the infobox. Aoi (青い) (talk) 15:01, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

As to whether additional occupations should be added to the lead, this has been discussed multiple times of the years (did a quick search of the archives), most recently in this thread, and there doesn't ever seem to have been consensus for including more than what is currently there. I'm open to adding additional occupations if consensus has changed, but this consensus (or lack of consensus) should be gauged first. Aoi (青い) (talk) 15:15, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

DiaMali agreed with the change, however the topic already has been archieved. There are clear and reliable sources, for this to be added. Other artists, most notably Beyoncé, have their (many) occupations in their info boxes, even if they are not included in the lead. And even then, they also should be included in the lead, because like already stated, there are reliable sources to include them. It seems to me, that there is some kind of bias against Grande, because I opened the discussion months ago, and no one took any notice of it. Mirrored7 (talk) 15:26, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Okay, at this point this is getting silly. I have sources that support my changes. There's no one who wants to take part in this discussion, even when it's very clear Grande is a record producer and businesswoman. I find it extremely biased that certain artists get a free pass of how much occupations they have on their lead or info box. The only editor who seems to have have an issue with it is Livelikemusic, but he's barely taking part in this discussion either. I'll wait until Monday. If they are no replies until then, I'm going to re-add them with sources on her info box and lead again. Mirrored7 (talk) 16:40, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

As I stated in a previous discussion—which was ignored, as well as [ignored] edit summaries—{{Infobox person}} states: Occupation(s) as given in the lead. And per the hidden note () this alludes to the fact anything beyond the three main occupations fail this. Just because someone ventures into another occupation does not equate it to being automatically notable or noteworthy. Just because X page does things does not mean Y page should, too. That would be as if stating "Josie robbed a bank, so I should, too!" livelikemusic (TALK!) 17:08, 29 March 2024 (UTC)