Talk:Ani DiFranco/Archive 1

Archive 1

Dan Bern

Changed the song title. It's "Talkin' Ani DiFranco's Mom Blues" according to his lyrics archive. --Thorns Among Our Leaves 22:06, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Staccato

I'm a musician, and an Ani fan, and I'm not sure what the staccato thing is referencing (yes, I see the link). Could someone clarify how this relates to her musical style and reference it, or else remove it? As it is it doesn't really say something useful. Makemi 06:56, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Added some references in for that. I guess people are talking about both the way she articulates her playing, especially when on acoustic, to the point where you hear the strings snapping the fingerboard (especially in her early days on Out of Range and Like I Said in a number of songs.) Perhaps there is a better word? I think it was me who first wrote it in the article. Sdedeo (tips) 07:02, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Frankly, it seems what they are referring to is the palm mute she utilizes at times, notably in songs like "Both Hands" (as you said, on the early Ani Difranco album). At least one of those sources comes from her own distributor's website, and the other I have found generally just copies from people's personal websites. I don't know, but I don't think she's the only folk-ish guitarist to use this technique. I agree that her level of proficiency on the guitar as well as her willingness to go farther in terms of techniques than others is notable, but I'm not sure how it can be put fairly in an NPOV way. As it stands, I'm not sure this article does that. Makemi 07:16, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

We only really have to report what others have said, so I think we're OK NPOVwise. "As described by promotional sources, DiFranco often uses a signature staccato style" or whatever is fine. Do use your music knowledge to better clarify what is going on, though, if you know, and if there are other artists with similar techniques, do mention them (although don't explicitly dispute something, e.g., that her style is "new" or "unique" unless you have a source.) Sdedeo (tips) 07:43, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

I think the description also often applies to her vocal style. Hyacinth 08:56, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

The Like I Said album

re: latest edit .. "Like I Said" is neither a remix album nor a compilation. Ani re-recorded several of her older songs, to update them and make them more "modern" sounding to the new fans she'd picked up since her first two albums. Smokeverbs 23:21, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Great, thanks. Do you have a source? Sdedeo (tips) 00:35, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

http://www.mmguide.musicmatch.com/album/album.cgi?ALBUMID=476160&AMGLENGTH=full#review and also the book Righteous Babe (Quarry Music Books, 2000), Raffaele Quirino, both mention this.Smokeverbs 10:14, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Guitar tunings necessary?

The list of guitar tunings seems pretty extraneous. It's not particularly useful to the average Wikipedian, and I'm sure they're easy to find on the internet. I move to delete them from the entry. 70.95.216.219 03:18, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Be bold! I agree -- delete 'em. Sdedeo (tips) 04:51, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Who deleted my tidbit about Ani being pregnant? It's true. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.182.181.151 (talk • contribs) .

I did. Read the entire section, please, it's already stated -- there's no need to repeat ourselves. -/- Warren 05:55, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

"First Musician to recieve Woman of Courage Award"?

Please believe I am in no way hoping to strip any positive thing from Ani's page, but I can't help but question the statement that she's the first musician directly following the line "Previous winners include SINGER ...Barbara Streisand" ummm... doesn't that negate the statement? Or are we not including singers in the group of musicians? ~~TheBextress — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheBextress (talk • contribs) 01:59, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

categorization as "liberal"

Someone just added, and I just deleted, the Category:American liberals from DiFranco's article. I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that she self-defines as "liberal" (more likely "radical" of some stripe), and no third-party evidence either. But thought I should bring it up here. --lquilter 14:23, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Unless there is a Category:American radicals, I don't see any problem with Category:American liberals. She's most definitely a leftist, god bless her. B.Mearns^*, KSC 14:16, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Picture

I wrote to righteous babe asking for a free-licenced picture to upload to Commons, and they sent me the one that's on the article already. I paste the emails.

Hello, I am looking for a picture of Ani's to upload to the common media source of the wikipedias, but it must be a free-licenced picture. Any picture of her would do, as long as I get propper authorization to distribute it freely.

I think that Ani would agree with this petition herself, and hey, read the article (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ani_DiFranco) it's quite nice I think. The picture that is uploaded there is under the "fair use" clause, since there's no free material available to replace it, and no one's making money out of it.

I am asking for a free-licenced piece of work, so it can be uploaded to the wikipedia commons (commons.wikipedia.org) so the other versions (languages) of the Wiki comunity can also have a picture in their Ani DiFranco's articles.

Thank you

Tomas Neme

Hello Tomas - I have attached a promotional photo for wikipedia...it is the same photo they already have on the Ani entry.

Thanks for your interest.

Best -

Anna

Anna Kapechuk

Righteous Babe Records

[Phone number and adress deleted]

www.righteousbabe.com

So I am uploading the picture to the Commons and updating the articles, ok? --Lacrymology 00:36, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

Any one know when or why the photo was removed? B.Mearns^*, KSC 15:42, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

B-Class?

What needs to be done to make this A or FA? Also, wasn't she an emancipated minor, moving out on her own at 15 or 16? I recall reading that in a few articles that I can't quite place just now as I'm at work. Her parents got divorced, she lived with her mother ("Not Angry Anymore" for starters, and then a couple other songs, too, I'm sure, as well as interviews where she said for a long time she was angry/upset with her father but as she grew older she came to realize there were 2 sides to every story, and that things were a lot more complicated than they'd been presented to her...)...early on in her career she lived out of her car and sold tapes from the trunk, etc. Narnibird 20:55, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

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"Virtuosity"

I'm correcting the description of DiFranco as a "virtuoso." I like Ani, but being a true virtuoso is something few will ever achieve. R 02:24, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

There should be some manner of commonly sourceable peacock-type term to describe DiFranco's prowess on the guitar. The first time I ever heard her live, at the Gothic theatre in Denver, Colorado, in the late nineties, I had been struggling for over a decade to arrive at some type of style that would combine harmonics, alternate tunings, and a hard edge. When I saw with my own eyes what she could effortlessly accomplish, I almost gave up the guitar altogether. Gennnnnius. Her early entrance into New York performances could very well support a statement about qualities of 'prodigy' for example ClaudeReigns 05:24, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

It's still opinion though. Even if it is true. ;P 71.171.214.47 18:23, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Women in (e)motion date

Women in (e)motion is older than 1998. I've had it since 1995 at least. -- I fixed it, I believe its 1994. Keoki 20:57, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

I just added all the pertinent info for the album, including the release date. Joshuah Hounshell (talk) 00:26, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Women In (E)motion Discography Entry

I have added all the pertinent information. Please check it out. Joshuah Hounshell (talk) 00:28, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Discography

Anyone else think we should move her discography to separate page? It's not complete, either...it would be easier to make it complete if it were on a separate page as well. Another thing that could be added is a chart with chart listings. 71.171.214.47 18:32, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't separate it until it is exhaustively complete. Wiki gets really weird about that and it may well get merged back into the original article. Joshuah Hounshell (talk) 00:29, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

An Acoustic Evening With...

Added pertinent info (limited) for this album. Does anyone have any more information? Could this be a bootleg? Joshuah Hounshell (talk) 02:13, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Prolific?

Someone removed the word prolific from the opening paragraph, so it now reads "She is known as an artist (having released seventeen albums)"... I'm gonna put it back 82.5.94.8 (talk) 08:20, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Where her father went to college . . .

I just heard her say in a concert in Pittsburgh that her father went to Carnegie Mellon University. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.171.67.200 (talk) 06:04, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

over-citation?

do there really need to be 10 sources for her number of albums? --24.57.202.58 (talk) 07:22, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

External Link suggestion

As an editor at Crawdaddy!, and to comply with COI guidelines, I am not posting the link to this new interview with Ani DiFranco. However, I would like to recommend it on its merits, and hope that an editor will find the time to examine the review and—if he or she sees fit—post it as an external link. I appreciate your time. ‘’Crawdaddy!’’ 2008
Mike harkin (talk) 23:38, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Over-referenced

"She is known as a prolific artist (having released nineteen albums)^{[2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11]}"

Is it really necessary to give ten references to prove she is prolific and has released 19 albums? I think users are smart enough that they can equate releasing 19 albums with being prolific. I would suggest keeping only the Gene Stout reference in place, since it is used elsewhere in the article, too. − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 00:26, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

I count 18 studio albums and several more live albums, in addition to bootlegs. I'm changing it to 'over 20', as I'm not sure what that count is supposed to be. Aaronwinborn (talk) 13:17, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Marriage

At the a concert at Fremantle Arts Centre, Western Australia on the 21st of January 2008 Ani told the crowd that she had got married to her boyfriend "not yesterday but the day before that" in Hawaii. Does anyone have a reference for this so it can be put on her entry? I was at the concert and heard her say it, but obviously that doesn't count as an actual reference which I can put up :P —Preceding unsigned comment added by Endless murmur (talk • contribs) 01:52, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

See this WNRN interview where she says she married her "baby daddy" Mike (interview from March 4, 2009): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF2C6vlPxj4 (she says she got married at 1:46) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.79.18.146 (talk) 15:12, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Copied text

Some of the text on this page seems to have been copied directly from http://www.lilith-ezine.com/articles/entertainment/Ani-DiFranco.html. For instance...

• The first paragraph of Musical style and the "folk label" appears to be a word-for-word copy of the 8th paragraph in the Lilith article.
• The second and third paragraphs of that section appear to be more or less adapted versions of paragraph 9 from the Lilith article.
• The first paragraph of Lyrics, politics and religion appears to be a word-for-word copy of the 10th paragraph in the Lilith article.

...and there seem to be more such instances.

--Noel Bush (talk) 11:16, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Athiest? No

Uhm...I read the categories at the bottom and found that someone decided to call her an atheist... Several of her songs talk about a higher power and her ethos is very Jewish (ie: Hebrew baby name, sociopolitical activism, 'arguing' with God on one song/poem). Don't call her an atheist if you don't have a citation, okay? There's established reason to describe her as Jewish and she's never denounced this fact--the religions of both of her parents would dictate that she's Jewish. Thank you. 63.215.26.150 21:55, 7 May 2007 (UTC)anon

-she categorically names herself an atheist in the linked Matthew Rothschild interview

PaprikaPlain (talk) 11:50, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

The Progressive article is sufficient support for the claim that she is atheist. It's a direct quote. Anon editor should realize that themes in an artist's work do not necessarily correlate to personal faith. AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 12:32, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

She has been talking about "finding religion" at several of her 2008-2009 concerts. This can be heard on several youtube clips of her concerts, as here in Reno in 2008 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBXd5O0ifiQ. While she may have identified as an atheist in the past, this statement should be updated as it no longer fits with her description of herself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steller88 (talk • contribs) 07:27, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

marriage to Andrew Gilchrist

I edited the article to reflect that her marriage was not legal, it was a commitment ceremony performed by her friend Utah Phillips, who's a Unitarian Universalist minister, and she wed Andrew in Canada. I know of at least one source, her movie Render, though I'm positive I read it in interviews with her as well. Narnibird 23:27, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Utah Phillips, a Unitarian Universalist minister? Citation please.Király-Seth (talk) 07:24, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

I don't know all of her history, so I can't fill it in, but I feel some sort of way that the only relationships where the partners' names are included are both men... kstn —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.242.75.94 (talk) 03:31, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Vegan?

• I believe she's a vegan. Can someone confirm this? There's no mention of it here, and she's not on the list of vegans. Thanks. --Jleon (talk) 22:31, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

She is not a Vegan. A Fiend76.180.206.226 (talk) 22:14, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Under the knife

Having plastic surgery mitigates against her feminist credentials. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.152.239.2 (talk) 13:15, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Citation please! LadySydney (talk) 17:32, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

????

"DiFranco is heavily influenced by the city's post-Katrina plight." What? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.97.70.30 (talk) 16:19, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

New Studio Album 2011

Today, I deleted the entry for the 2011 new album which has been added under two different titles, "Mariachi" on 28 December 2010 and earlier today "Which Side Are You On?." Today's edit initially was

• 2011 - Mariachi or Which Side Are You On?

Having looked some more for a source, since my deletion, I was able to find this, site, dated the 11 January 2011. Although, it seems to be a user based venue review/rating site which may very well have gotten the information from here, not a reliable source. I would suggest that the 2011 album be excluded until pre-sale/release date or unless a reliable source is presented. — Rɑːlɑːjər ^talk 03:04, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Unreliable Source

"Numerous media sources reported that her fans felt betrayed by her union with a man. http://www.gotpoetry.com/News/article/sid=119.html Biography of Ani DiFranco on gotpoetry.com" 1. She admitted she was bisexual. So what does fan response to the fact that she ya know turned out to be bisexual have to do with the article? 2. It's not a reliable source. 3. It comes off as biased. Almost as if being bi--you can only admit it and then date women? Huh? When did prejudice have a place in a biography of a person when it's not relevant to the article?

I removed it.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 15:42, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Controversy section

Hello all. There were some recent edits here that I found problematic, good faith being assumed. In the description of the questionable edits, the author claims to be "removing opinion". However, the removed material was not the original wikipedia author's opinion, but instead the opinions described by neutral resources (news articles), and those expressed in original sources (blogs, etc.). The purpose of a "controversy" section is to illustrate and explain a controversy. Hence, if an artist is criticized, there needs to be an explanation as to the rationale behind said criticism. Further, when neutral resources are removed from a bibliography, not to mention direct sources, this is never good. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.14.213.167 (talk) 02:06, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

The history shows some interesting contention about how this even should be portrayed. I tend to think the earlier incarnations were more matter-of-fact, avoided references with broken links, and kept the article from being a link fest for redundant news stories. The section covers the event well without veering off topic into the deep explanation of the controversial venue (the links serve additional details for the interested reader). I renamed the section to more specific. Unless the section covers the multitude of controversial events and views in the biography of this artist it seems more accurate to make the section title as specific as the content. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.237.196.66 (talk) 19:52, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi. As it stands, there are no dead links in the section. As far as there being "too many references", I don't feel that's a problem, especially considering that over time some of the links may die. The details about the plantation are necessary to illustrate that this was not just any farm that had slaves, but a major symbol of slavery and the Southern aristocracy. Compared to the sources, the details here are abbreviated. The topic needs too be covered adequately, as the artist is a famous feminist and intersectionality is widely unknown and/or misunderstood. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.14.213.167 (talk) 23:31, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Oh yes, as far as the title being specific to the content, maybe we could change it to "Accusations of Racism". I didn't think that "Righteous Retreat" worked, which is what the artist calls all of her songwriting workshops. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.14.213.167 (talk) 23:39, 24 January 2014 (UTC)

Have other events of the same title been held before? I know of none and could find no references to support the claim that "Righteous Retreat" is how "all of her songwriting workshops" are billed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.19.188.169 (talk) 13:12, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

A lot of the links in this section are not references that support the details to which they are attached but rather links to similar articles that echoing similar opinions on the topic. While the inclusion of the various sources may be appropriate to demonstrate the outcry from various sources, attaching them to claims about venue seems strange. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.19.188.169 (talk) 13:30, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Can you please give a specific example of a reference not supporting the details of the section?ErykahHuggins (talk) 21:59, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Upon re-read, I think there are fewer than I first thought. Here are some examples (note numbers at the time of writing):

• Current Ref 67 now appears to be down, but my recollection was that it was an opinion piece not a piece of objective journalism supporting the fact of the preceding sentance.
• Current Ref 70 - Does not support that "The grounds are now operated as a plantation-themed luxury resort, owned by Australian billionaire Paul Ramsay"
• The oft-linked Nottoway history page must have been removed, because it now comes up 404. The citations supporting the downplay of suffering and whitewashing of the resort's promotional material all point to the same paragraph on that. While I do not have much reason to doubt the quotes corroborated by several article (though some appear to be copies and references to one another), it is unfortunate that there is no primary source. This affects current notes, one of which I now realize addresses the fact of a change in the literature. So that's good. Most importantly, I missed this piece from Mikki Kendall in the guardian
• This link, currently 77, is problematic only in that it claims 2,500 rather than the factual >2,600 or 2,687. The link to the petition, however, is hopefully enough.
• Current Note 78, this link, has nothing to do with the preceding quote and should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.60.221.209 (talk) 02:29, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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Blacklisted Links Found on Ani DiFranco

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Ani DiFazio

Anyone know anything about Ani DeFazio? Where does that come from? -- Sam

To my knowledge, Ani started using the pseudonym "Annie DeFazio" in response to everyone mispronouncing/misspelling her name. I could be wrong, but I'm almost certain this is true. There is a mention of it in this article on search engine validity. --Thorns Among Our Leaves 21:58, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Ani Difazio was also a name she used when booking into hotels, as an ironic attempt at a hopeless psuedonym. 86.165.186.208 (talk) 00:13, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Napoleon

Why is it rumored that Napoleon is about Suzanne Vega?

Because Suzanne Vega is an (expletive) Napoleon. Listen to the lyrics for God's sakes.

I don't disagree with it being about Suzanne Vega, but to be on Wikipedia - there absolutely needs to be a source, and at the moment there isn't one. Should it be removed until such time as a proper source can be found? 71.162.90.244 (talk) 21:55, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Ani has stated at concerts that this song is not about Susanne Vega, or Alanis Morisette for that matter. Vega is 11 years older and the idea of her having conversations with a 13 year old Ani Difranco about signing her first record deal is absurd.

I don't have a source for this but I will feed the rumour mill anyway. Ani said the song was about someone who appaered with her on a panel discussing art for profit. This would suggest that the song was written about Pearl Jam frontman Eddie Vedder, who's disallusionment with the mainstream music business at that time is well publicised. Pearl Jam signed their 1st record deal in 1990, the same year Ani began her indy venture. In 1994 (When the song was written) the band began a boycott of Ticket Master which led to Congressional hearings and the inability of the band to put together a tour outside of Ticket Master's monopoly of US venues. I'm always amused that the song is assumed to be about another female artist, like they all live in some box in the back room of the music industry. 86.165.186.208 (talk) 00:36, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

Criticism section

This is a magnificent example of undue weight. It will be reduced to a single sentence per best practices and guidelines. Viriditas (talk) 21:01, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

---

In 2013 DiFranco was criticized on social media and faced "a great deal of outcry" after the announcement that she was hosting a three-day artists' workshop billed as the "Righteous Retreat" at Iberville Parish's Nottoway Plantation in White Castle, Louisiana. Nottoway was one of the largest plantations in the South, and features the largest antebellum mansion. Its operator and founder John Randolph owned over 155 slaves in the year 1860. The grounds are now operated as a luxury resort. Critics charged that the resort's promotional material attempts to portray the plantation owner in a positive light, to downplay the suffering of the slaves, and to "sanitize" and "romanticize" the history of slavery for commercial gain. DiFranco's choice of venue for the retreat was called "a very blatant display of racism" on a petition at Change.org that collected more than 2,600 signatures.

On December 29, 2013, DiFranco issued an apology, announcing that she was cancelling the retreat, stating that:

i have heard you: all who have voiced opposition to my conducting a writing and performing seminar at the nottoway plantation. i have decided to cancel the retreat.

when i agreed to do a retreat (with a promoter who has organized such things before with other artists and who approached me about being the next curator/host/teacher), i did not know the exact location it was to be held. [...]

i am not unaware of the mechanism of white privilege or the fact that i need to listen more than talk when it comes to issues of race. if nottoway is simply not an acceptable place for me to go and try to do my work in the eyes of many, then let me just concede before more divisive words are spilled. [...]

i think many positive and life-affirming connections would have been made at this conference, in all of its complexity of design. i do not wish to reinvent the righteous retreat at this point to eliminate the stay at the Nottoway Plantation.at this point I wish only to cancel.

i ask only that as we attempt to continue to confront our country's history together, let us not forget that the history of slavery and exploitation is at the foundation of much of our infrastructure in this country, not just at old plantation sites. let us not oversimplify to black and white a society that contains many many shades of grey. and let us not forget to be compassionate towards each other as we attempt to move forward and write the next pages in our history. our story is not over and, Citizens of the Internet, it is now ours to write.

The singer's statements were called "remarkably unapologetic" on Jezebel, and "a variety of excuses and justifications" by Ebony. Additionally, a piece at The Guardian said the announcement made "much of the idea that this was all a mistake, with no indication of remorse."

DiFranco issued a second statement and apology on January 2, 2014, following continued criticism. In it, she wrote "... i would like to say i am sincerely sorry. it is obvious to me now that you were right – all those who said we can't in good conscience go to that place and support it or look past for one moment what it deeply represents. i needed a wake up call and you gave it to me."

In 2019 DiFranco reflected on the experience with the cancelled retreat as devastating: "“It put a level of fear into me that I had never felt. I could stand up to anybody, until it was my own tribe. I would not be taken down by anybody. But when it became my own tribe, I experienced a crisis … I just think Goddess help all the young artists and writers who are trying to be intrepid and insist on being human and being able to make mistakes, because that’s part of evolution.”

References