Talk:Angela Goethals

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Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Angela Goethals/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Needs verification on some facts -- has sourcing on some stuff, but not other stuff. Yksin 04:24, 25 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Last edited at 04:24, 25 February 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 07:48, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 15 November 2023[edit]

you are missing very important info here at angela goethals's bio because her date of birth is may 20 1977 and she has been married to fellow actor russell soder since 2005 and she has 2 children. Robby mercier (talk) 10:23, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Robby mercier: I agree. As it has been stated time and time again that the information you mentioned is correct. You also forgot to mention that her middle name is Bethany. She also goes by the name 'Angela Bethany Goethals-soder' on Facebook. However, there is one major problem. We need reliable sources to back this information up. Without reliable sources, the information can't be added to the page. Two IPs have attempted to add the said information recently. But neither of them added any sources, let alone reliable ones, to the page. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 10:55, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
i should have mentioned that i found out through her bio at imdb.com that angela goethals's date of birth is may 20 1977 and that she has been married to russell soder since 2005 and that she has 2 children. Robby mercier (talk) 11:22, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, but unfortunately imdb is one of those sites that isn't considered reliable by Wikipedia. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 11:30, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
oh i know about bethany being angela goethals's middle name but 1 reason i'm pushing for you to update that info in her bio is because i love the home alone 1 movie she is in so much and angela goethals is 1 of 4 people in that movie that was born in the same year i was born in 1977, hillary jocelyn wolf, devin ratray and michael c. maronna are the others in that movie born in the same year as me and angela goethals is the only one of the 4 of them who's missing their date of birth at their wikipedia bio.
well would any of these sources be helpful for you so you'll update the info at her wikipedia bio, allmovie.com? rottentomatoes.com? film reference.com? the movie database.com?
because those places as well i found out about her date of birth being may 20 1977, if those are no good let me know what source will be good so you'll add in her date of birth at her wikipedia bio. Robby mercier (talk) 12:16, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's probably a question for @Materialscientist: or @Teblick:. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 12:24, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
yeah well if you believe me about angela bethany goethals's date of birth being may 20 1977 why can't it just be added to her wikipedia bio along with the fact that she's been married to russell soder since 2005 and she's got 2 children if you believe me about all of those things why can't it just be added to her wikipedia bio?
i'm not making any of those things up they are the truth. Robby mercier (talk) 12:51, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I know you aren't. Hopefully one of those sites is deemed reliable enough. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 13:20, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@C.Syde65, Since you mentioned me above, I will reply.
@Robby mercier asked, "well would any of these sources be helpful for you so you'll update the info at her wikipedia bio, allmovie.com? rottentomatoes.com? film reference.com? the movie database.com?"
  • As far as I know, allmovie.com is a valid source.
  • FilmReference.com is not a reliable source. See Wikipedia:WikiProject Film/Resources#Databases.
  • Rotten Tomatoes has been used as a source of birth dates in Wikipedia articles, but a recent discussion sought to have it declared unreliable. I don't know whether that has been decided
  • I am not familiar with the movie database.com, so I cannot say whether it would be acceptible.
You might go to Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard to ask. Or, for a biography of a living person, Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard would be another possibility for raising the question. Eddie Blick (talk) 14:09, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
just please find a way to get her date of birth listed in her wikipedia bio because like i said i like her 1 movie home alone very much and she is the only one that does not have her date of birth listed in their wikipedia bio of the 4 people in that movie born in the same year as me 1977. Robby mercier (talk) 14:22, 15 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done - see later duplicate edit requests. -- Euryalus (talk) 02:32, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 16 November 2023[edit]

if wikipedia thinks that angela goethals might have died and that is why they're refusing to do it with putting in at her bio about her date of birth being may 20 1977 and the fact that she's been married to russell soder since 2005 and she's got 2 kids.

well let me make it clear she hasn't died yet she's still living.

if you're not going to add that important info in at her bio wikipedia, well then may i do it myself?

because it's really bugging me that you're not adding that important info in at her biography. Robby mercier (talk) 08:50, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sure. Try using all the sources you have. And hope that at least one of them saves the information from getting removed. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 09:11, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done on procedural grounds as this is basically the same edit request as the one above. You need a reliable source for the proposed date of birth and middle name. As suggested above, try asking about allmovies.com at WP:RSN or find these details in some other source that meets WP:RS. -- Euryalus (talk) 10:03, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

i gave the places that mentions that her name is angela bethany goethals and that she was born on may 20 1977 i looked it up at allmovie.com, rotten tomatoes.com, themoviedatabase.com, film reference.com, imdb.com, turner classic movies.com
all of those places say she was born on may 20 1977, for crying out loud.
i'm really getting ticked off about this because i'm big fan of hers and you're leaving out important details about her at her wikipedia bio by not saying she has been married to russell soder since 2005 and she has 2 kids. Robby mercier (talk) 15:25, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You wish to add the information. The WP:ONUS is on you to provide reliable sources to support the claims you're proposing. Without any reliable sources, nothing is going to happen. Canterbury Tail talk 16:23, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
i am not making those things about angela goethals up,
those things about her are the honest of god truth,
if you don't believe me
go on those 6 sites and see for yourself then you'll be sorry you didn't believe me,
they all say that she was INDEED BORN ON MAY 20 1977.
and her bio says at imdb.com that she HAS INDEED BEEN MARRIED TO RUSSELL SODER SINCE 2005 AND THAT SHE INDEED HAS 2 KIDS.
oh yeah and let me add in that her bios at amazon.com, celebsagewiki.com and famousstardom.com say that those 3 facts i said about her are THE TRUTH.
if you think i'm lying go check those sites out for yourself too, then you'll be sorry you didn't believe me. Robby mercier (talk) 16:39, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
And as has been pointed out to you repeatedly, those are not reliable sources. You need to find a reliable source for the information. Canterbury Tail talk 16:59, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Canterbury Tail: Actually according to what Teblick said further up, one of those sites is a reliable source. Also Robby mercier, you really need to stay cool when the editing gets hot. I can tell by your messages that you are getting all heated. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 21:16, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
But the source has not been provided, just a general query on allmovie.com. It could be from an editorial, some link out to something else, a repost of a press release etc. Canterbury Tail talk 21:18, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
well she is on facebook under the name of angela bethany goethals-soder but,
i am not on facebook, i retired from doing that site myself.
but what do you want me to do, go all over the planet, to prove those 3 facts i said about her are INDEED THE TRUTH.
because this is very upsetting to me because i like this site and i am a big fan of her one movie home alone and she is the only one of the 4 in that movie that shares the same birth year as me that does not have her date of birth listed at their wikipedia bio, the other 3 do. Robby mercier (talk) 22:29, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
yes i'm getting very upset about this because like i'll say again i'm a big fan of her one movie home alone.
and angela goethals is the only one of the 4 in that movie that shares the same birth year as me that does not have their date of birth listed at their wikipedia bio the other 3 do have their dates of birth listed at their wikipedia bios. Robby mercier (talk) 22:12, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

here, here, here, these are other places that say that angela bethany goethals was INDEED BORN ON MAY 20 1977 homealone.fandom.com, bestofdate.com, ranker.com, celebsfacts.com, 24.fandom.com, alchetron.com.

because i'm not giving up on this until you put that info in at her wikipedia bio. Robby mercier (talk) 23:33, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not giving up either. Even if it may seem as though I haven't done much. I'm just waiting until someone can provide reliable sources. Since I haven't had much time to hunt for them myself. I should point out that Fandom is not a reliable source. As it can be edited by anyone.
Angela Goethals is or at least appears to be one of the more popular cast members of Home Alone, which could explain why editors are more persistent in ensuring that the sources on her page are among the most reliable. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 23:46, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
They are likely using each other as a source since nobody can provide a reliable source. Seasider53 (talk) 23:48, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
they are not using each other as a source they are telling the truth,
angela goethals's birthday is INDEED ON may 20 1977.
because go to the trivia section for home alone at imdb.com
and one of their notes for that movie talks about the fact that devin ratray, hillary wolf, angela goethals, michael c. maronna in that movie were all born in january, february, may and september of 1977 respectively.
yeah and wikipedia has the dates of births at devin ratray's, hillary wolf's and michael c. maronna's bios but not angela goethals's
something fishy about that.
and it's driving me nuts that i come on this site and i see devin ratray, hillary wolf and michael c. maronna's dates of birth at their wikipedia bios but not angela goethals.
since all 4 of those people in home alone that's right share the same birth year as me and
not only that all 4 of those people in that movie make me laugh with their quotes in home alone and,
and it doesn't make sense to have their dates of birth listed at 3 of their bios and not at all 4 of their bios.
so, you wonder why i'm being forceful about this issue because sure i wanna see all 4 of their bios talk about their dates of birth at wikipedia since all 4 of them share the same birth year as me and all 4 of them in that movie make me laugh.
and nope it's not enough for me that 3 of their 4 bios reveal their birth dates. Robby mercier (talk) 02:25, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, read up on WP:RS when you get a chance. Seasider53 (talk) 03:32, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
well then what source did you get the info from for hillary jocelyn wolf so i can go to that?
angela goethals's co star from home alone where everything is in the wikipedia bio for hillary jocelyn wolf about her being born on february 7 1977 and about the fact that she has been married to chris saba since 2002 and that she has 2 kids.
because i'm getting tired of having to play these guessing games trying to figure out,
WHAT WILL IT TAKE FOR WIKIPEDIA TO SAY IN ANGELA BETHANY GOETHALS'S BIO THAT SHE WAS BORN ON MAY 20 1977 AND THAT SHE HAS BEEN MARRIED TO RUSSELL SODER SINCE 2005 AND SHE TOO HAS 2 KIDS?! Robby mercier (talk) 04:07, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That’s for you to find out. The information was challenged a long time ago, and still nobody can come up with a reliable source. Your nonsense is just nonsense, which isn’t helping. Seasider53 (talk) 06:40, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
good i'm happy you're not giving up either, thanks.
because she makes me laugh with some of her quotes in home alone and she is 1 of 4 people in that movie that shares the same birth year as me,
that's why i'm being forceful about this issue, but
while i'm here let me add in some more places that say that she was INDEED born on may 20 1977 are
bodysize.org, popularnetworth.com, peoplepill.com, famousmarried.com, celebscouples.com, allfamous.org, fandango.com, wikilogy.com Robby mercier (talk) 01:54, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Not a single one of them is a reliable source. And you have to provide more than just a top level domain website, you need to point us to the actual source. Canterbury Tail talk 01:58, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
oh for crying out loud do i have to look over this planet to convince you people that IT'S THE TRUTH THAT ANGELA BETHANY GOETHALS WAS BORN ON MAY 20 1977?!
gee whiz.
well i'm going to go all over this planet if it's going to have to take that to get you people to put the words in her bio date of birth may 20 1977.
her bios at amazon.com, famousstardom.com, allmovie.com, rottentomatoes.com, turner classic movies.com say,
IT IS THE TRUTH THAT SHE WAS BORN ON MAY 20 1977. Robby mercier (talk) 02:54, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would recommend providing links to the pages containing the information that supports her name and birthdate information. Because so far you haven't provided links to the pages containing the information. You've only listed the names of the sites that contain the information, which isn't enough.
I would also recommend not using all caps on talk pages, since it makes it seem like you are really stressed, which is never a good sign. An important part of editing is being able to keep your cool during conflicts. And yes, I know how hard it is to keep your cool all the time. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 04:34, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
here does this help,
celebsagewiki.com/angela goethals?
amazon.com/prime video/actor/ angela goethals?
famousbirthdays.com/people/ angela goethals?
because those things say she was born on may 20 1977 and that she is married to russell soder. Robby mercier (talk) 05:05, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

information Administrator note @Robby mercier: appreciate your passion for adding detail to this article but the constant repetition and the all caps replies are starting to become disruptive. Please don't continue to do this. You're welcome to keep contributing to this page but not in the way you're doing now.

On the actual topic, you may be right re the birthdate etc but an encyclopaedia requires reliable sources for all its content and you have not yet definitively provided any. You've been recommended to try the reliable sources noticeboard which is a good place to get help with sourcing proposed edits. Or you're welcome to keep looking for alternative sources and posting them here for discussion. But do please heed the above (hopefully polite) warning to tone it down a little and approach conversations in a more collegiate way. Hope thats clear and all the best with finding the sources you need. -- Euryalus (talk)<

ludicrous[edit]

oh it's just ludicrous that wikipedia continues to be stubborn and strict with the way they do things, i'm really fed up now i'm getting to the point where i won't come on this site anymore ever again they continue to twist around and make it sound like it's my fault when no it isn't my fault when i have told them more than 20 places that say it's the truth that she was born on may 20 1977 and wikipedia continues to not budge,

that's it, if wikipedia does not budge this time when they see this speech of mine then i'll boycott this site because this indeed ludicrous when virtually everyplace on the planet says she was born on may 20 1977.

because i have told them all of the places where i saw that angela goethals's date of birth is may 20 1977 and they continue to refuse to put that important info in at her biography.

oh for god sake her bios at allmovie.com, rotten tomatoes.com, film reference.com, the movie database.com, imdb.com, turner classic movies.com, amazon.com, celebsagewiki.com, famousstardom.com, famousbirthdays.com, bodysize.org, popularnetworth.com, peoplepill.com, famousmarried.com, celebscouples.com, allfamous.org, fandango.com, wikilogy.com, homealone.fandom.com, bestofdate.com, ranker.com, celebsfacts.com, alchetron.com, 24.fandom.com,

that is 24 different places that say she was indeed born on may 20 1977, but,

i don't know how to do it though with sharing her bios on this site from those 24 different sites Robby mercier (talk) 14:11, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Didn’t need a whole new section on your same misunderstanding of how Wikipedia works. Maybe some time away is the best option. Seasider53 (talk) 14:39, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 18 November 2023[edit]

can wikipedia please budge already about putting the words date of birth may 20 1977 in angela goethals's bio?

when i have told them about more than 20 different places that say it's the truth she was born on may 20 1977.

or unless angela goethals herself told you wikipedia,

that she doesn't want it posted in her wikipedia bio about her date of birth being may 20 1977, and about the fact that she has been married to russell soder since 2005, and the fact that she has 2 kids? Robby mercier (talk) 02:05, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done as you have still not provided any reliable secondary sources despite multiple requests. @Robby mercier: I've also removed your access to this page for a week to prevent the continued disruption of your repeated request for poorly sourced additions. You are welcome to edit other pages in the mean time, or perhaps to use the time to read WP's reliable sources requirements and see if you can find something that satisfies them re Goethal's date of birth and marital status. -- Euryalus (talk) 02:22, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Since Robby mercier never posted direct links to the proposed sources, despite our attempts to persuade them to do so, I thought I'd post the one that was deemed reliable. And that's this one:
https://www.allmovie.com/artist/angela-goethals-vn15530008
― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 02:32, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Matter for you all but I think we'd need a local consensus per WP:RSP:
  • RhythmOne (who acquired All Media Guide, formerly AllRovi) operates the websites AllMusic, AllMovie, and AllGame (defunct). There is consensus that RhythmOne websites are usable for entertainment reviews with in-text attribution. Some editors question the accuracy of these websites for biographical details and recommend more reliable sources when available. Editors also advise against using AllMusic's genre classifications from the website's sidebar. Listings without accompanying prose do not count toward notability.
Emphasis added to highlight the relevant part. And it would be a nice welcome-back present for Robby mercier if the general editor pool for this article actually secured a reliably sourced addition on birthdate and marital status. :) -- Euryalus (talk) 02:41, 18 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It would be a nice present for me as well. So are we good with adding the information back to her page with the source from Allmovie.com? I was going to add the information back. But I don't want to make the same mistake that Robby mercier made. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 20:35, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not comfortable with that. AllMusic could well have taken her birthdate from this article when it had it listed for the last few years. As we know, Wikipedia didn't have a source for that addition. Seasider53 (talk) 05:43, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Well here's my proposed changes to the article anyway. Is there anything else that we can do, like reach out to someone at Allmovie.com? It's already been stated that Allmovie.com is a reliable source. So I'm not sure why there's any reason to be holding back. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 05:51, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Canterbury Tail and Teblick: Shouldn't the proposed changes that I made be added to the page? I mean the source is from a site that is deemed reliable by Wikipedia. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 01:37, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
C.Syde65, I think you should add the date and citation to the page. AllMovie is used as a citation on many pages, and I have not seen it listed as unreliable, so I say go ahead with the edit. Thanks for doing that! Eddie Blick (talk) 01:43, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Doesn't that mean I would have to modify the changes that I proposed before publishing them? If so then what changes should I make? ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 01:53, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@C.Syde65 Wouldn't adding <ref name="allmovie"/> after the date of birth in the lead and adding the year of birth to categories take care of it? I'm not sure what other changes are needed. Eddie Blick (talk) 02:23, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Well this is the change that I made. I just wondered if anything else was needed. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 02:24, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Per the above comment in green, which is from WP:RSP: Some editors have questioned Allmovies accuracy on biographical info. That doesn't mean it cannot be used as a reference for biographical statements, particularly for fairly innocuous ones like an unsurprising birthdate. I'd say a better source would be great, but it seems we don't have one available. As a personal opinion I think we have a local consensus (ie a consensus of editors here on this talkpage) that the Allmovies ref is okay on this birthdate issue at least. -- Euryalus (talk) 02:34, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Euryalus I'm one of the editors that have been questioning Allmovie's accuracy when it comes to WP:BLP. There's actual no official consensus on whether or not it's a reliable source, but I've did some digging in the past and I've pointed out on other talk pages that it doesn't seem trustworthy for that sort of info because it has the incorrect DOBs for other actors. For some examples here are the Allmovie pages for John Leguizamo[1], Edie McClurg[2], Judith Hoag[3], Ric Ocasek[4] and Laverne Cox[5]. All the listed DOBs are wrong here. The biggest red flag is that it has 1984 listed for Cox's birth year and her actual one(1972) was revealed years ago. This makes it seem like they're getting this info from other sites and are web scraping it.
Some months back there was a RfC regarding Rotten Tomatoes and the consensus was that it's okay to use for things like movies and tv shows, but not WP:BLP as they don't indicate where they get that information from. I feel that Allmovie should be treated a similar way. Another thing Allmovie has going against it is that at the bottom of the actor pages, there's a fact sheet. Now if you go to those actor bio on TVguide, it's the exact same. Not a good sign as it looks like Allmovie just copy/pasted that. Kcj5062 (talk) 06:58, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think each situation should be treated on a case by case basis. Allmovie.com may be the only reliable site to our knowledge that has her birthdate. But it is by no means the only site that agrees with the said birthdate. I feel that we should just let the issue rest for now and keep our eyes out for more reliable sources. As it has proven to be more trouble than it's worth. All the other pages of actors and actresses in Home Alone that were under 18 have their birthdates added to them. I don't think Angela Goethals' page should be treated any differently. Especially now that a source has been added to support it. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 07:04, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@C.Syde65Fair enough. But I'd like to see what Euryalus has to say about the things I've pointed out since he's an admin. Kcj5062 (talk) 07:15, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for delayed response. As an admin I don't have any especial insight into the use of this source. WP:RSP neither supports nor opposes, so a case-by-case consensus seems a good way to go, per C.Syde65. If you don't think it's reliable in this case (and you do present some good reasons why not), then we may not have a consensus for its use after all, and perhaps an ongoing discussion is required to find an alternative. But that's up to you all to decide as experts/interested editors on this topic - I'm just here to keep the (editing) peace. :) -- Euryalus (talk) 21:23, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think at this point we should judge reliability on the source rather than the site containing it. I agree that Allmovie.com may be unreliable in some cases. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. There are also countless sites that support the 20th May 1977 birthdate. So I feel that we should keep the birthdate on the page unless any evidence shows up that counters it. We do seem to have a consensus, as almost everyone here so far seems to be in favour of keeping the information on the page.
I'm guessing people are probably more hesitant about keeping the information on the page, at least without a source, because the actress in question is arguably one of the more popular actors/actresses in the film, due to the character she plays, who is arguably the third most popular character out of Peter and Kate McCallister's children, after Kevin and Buzz. And also because she has appeared in more films and series than Hillary Wolf or Michael C. Maronna have at least. So naturally editors would be more persistent in making sure that her information is supported by a reliable source. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 21:34, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
how come no one has been responding to me when i have been trying to thank the various people on wikipedia here for putting angela goethals's date of birth in her bio here?
when that means alot to me because of how much i like that movie and now it means that all 4 of them in that movie that were born in the same year as me now have their dates of birth in their wikipedia bios now,
hillary wolf, devin ratray, michael c. maronna and angela goethals. Robby mercier (talk) 01:37, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Just move on, okay? If you don't receive a response when you thank someone, it's best to just move on. Otherwise it will seem as though you are nagging the people you thanked, which will only irritate them. Also you generally shouldn't leave messages on article talk pages unless they are related to improving the article. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 03:13, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

i thank you so much wikipedia.[edit]

i want to thank you so much wikipedia for adding angela goethals's date of birth into her bio there.

because this means alot to me because of how much i love home alone 1 and now it means,

that all 4 of them in that movie that were born in 1977 along with me all now have their dates of birth at their bios here,

devin ratray, hillary wolf, angela goethals and michael c. maronna.

because all 4 of them make me laugh in that movie with their quotes. Robby mercier (talk) 12:57, 25 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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