Talk:Adam's Bridge/Archive 4

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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3 Archive 4 Archive 5 Archive 6 → Archive 8

Adding Ethymology

This request is to Administrators for the addition of Ethymology placed in ramayana to the article Adam's Bridge with proper references as it is part of Hindu beliefs and Wikipedia:WikiProject Hinduism. Waiting for your permission WP MANIKHANTA 07:23, 25 March 2016 (UTC) User:WP MANIKHANTA

User:WP MANIKHANTA How about adding the text and source(s) here for discussion. 09:03, 25 March 2016 (UTC) Doug Weller (talk • contribs)

Paris, Rio, Berlin, Montreal, Los Angeles, and Alaska, are a few examples of place names we do not bother translate into English, never mind re-name. I question the WP:POV and WP:Neutrality of using "Adam's Bridge" instead of the real name, Rama's Bridge. Specifically:

  1. Ethymology: while translation is expected, renaming is WP:POV because:
  2. Adam's Bridge is an English exonym ("An English exonym is typically a place name given by an English-speaking linguistic community to a topographic feature situated in a territory where English has no official status.")
  3. The name Adam's Bridge is a remnant of Christianity's old ways to change the culture (and deities) of other civilizations.
  4. Rama's Bridge is a perfectly good English translation that does not violate the required neutral global view.

My 2 cents. Cheers, BatteryIncluded (talk) 07:52, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

As I've said above, even The Hindu uses Adam's Bridge (as did the academic being quoted in the article).[1] And perhaps you didn't know that English is an official language in India. Doug Weller talk 10:45, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
I don't expect Wikipedia to change it, but it had to be said. Regarding you last jab, look at my point #2. India was an English colony. Cheers, BatteryIncluded (talk) 14:17, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

Previously i appealed to Administrators that to add Etymology placed in Ramayana as sub topic in article please answer to this question WP MANIKHANTA Talk 09:47, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

@WP MANIKHANTA: And Doug Weller has replied to your appeal. As he stated, add your text along with reliable sources here for discussion.--10:06, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 May 2016

The main title of this topic should be Rama Setu and secondary should be Adam's Bridge. This bridge was created way before and named Rama Setu before Adam discovered it. 68.113.62.216 (talk) 07:29, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

 Not done We follow WP:COMMONNAME and "Adam's bridge" is a far more common name of this globally. §§Dharmadhyaksha§§ {Talk / Edits} 07:44, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 July 2016

Please change title of the page 'adam's bridge' to 'Rama Setu'. 117.229.10.75 (talk) 14:55, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

 Not done please see the requested move discussions at the top of this page - the consensus of the last request was NOT to move the page - Arjayay (talk) 15:10, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

request edit

Respected Authority, I want to change the title of an article which i am addressing below.

The article is on Adam's Bridge. Its title is not addressed correctly according to the hindu mythology and hindu rituals the bridge between India to Sri Lanka was created by Lord Rama and it is also named as 'Rama Setu' after the name of Lord Rama.

So, there is my humble request to please change the title of this article.

Please change the title of article 'Adam's Bridge' to 'Rama Setu'.

Thank You. Dhyey Dattani

 Not done as explained above - this has been discussed three times and the consensus of the last discussion was NOT to move the page - Arjayay (talk) 15:26, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 April 2017

Where is the source that states the "Ram Sethu" bridge has been named as "Adam's Bridge" I do not see any reference to it. In the article itself, it is stated that "the bridge was first mentioned in the ancient Indian Sanskrit epic Ramayana of Valmiki." to which a reference was provided. A 2008 reference in Encyclopædia Britannica is NOT authoritative so say Adam meditated. This reference needs editing for correctness. Skaranam (talk) 05:55, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Not done: Adam's Bridge is its common name in English (as has been discussed ad nauseam above). — Jon C.ॐ 09:06, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 May 2017

The word "alternatives" is misspelled as "ealternatives". 192.214.110.116 (talk) 15:52, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Already done. Thanks for helping to improve this article. —KuyaBriBriTalk 16:44, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Worst mistake by Wikipedia.

clearly shown in detail that it was named Ramsetu / Rama's Bridge many many years ago in "Ramayana" then how could it be renamed in 18th sentry?

at some point Wikipedia should verify the content being updated by any user. without any proof they can not give any title to anything. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.254.31.247 (talk) 04:39, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Request for Change of name

Dear Moderator,

We cannot accept some British given name to such a great place. This place was known as Rama Setu or names sounding similar to that for centuries. The name Adam's Bridge do not make any sense. So is Adam's Peak. There is no reference to Adam's peak in Bible. Adam did not fall into Sri Lanka from heaven. The first man as per the Bible was made from the earth. He did not fall from the heavens. Old ignorant Colonialist didn't have any good education. They were blinded by greed and religious madness. There is no mythology or book relating to Adam or the first man in India or in Lanka written in Christianity, Judaism or Islam. History and achievements of India / East has been hijacked by Europeans and Arabs for a long time. European colonist for 1 century argued that Indus Vally Civilization people as Aryans, now with credible evidence we have proved them wrong. There was no Aryan migration and its a bloody lie cooked up by racist people who did not have any great history. So is this name. They are trying to take away the credit of such feet of engineering from the Indians and trying to label it as Adams Bridge. You should understand that the first humans didn't know east from west, for the first 1000 years.So it's really not possible for the first humans to actually build such a bridge. So act accordingly and change the title of the page to Rama Setu. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aka9000 (talk • contribs) 06:23, 25 March 2017 (UTC) Aka9000 06:40, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Someone else will deal with the name. I just want to say that as there is no bridge - read the article - no one built it. Doug Weller talk 07:58, 25 March 2017 (UTC)
  • "You should understand that the first humans didn't know east from west": Surely people have always been able to see which direction the sun rises and which direction the sun sets? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 12:00, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 June 2017

The name of the article must be changed from Adam's Bridge to Rama's Bridge, which is the current prominent name, as well as the historic name of the place. Why? For the same reason that San Francisco isn't called Yerba Buena today, just because someone called it so at some point in the past. 2601:645:4200:6409:153C:1438:60FF:87EE (talk) 02:30, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

 Not done Please see previous move requests (linked at the top of this page) as well as the archives of this talk page for earlier discussions on this matter.--Cpt.a.haddock (talk) (please ping when replying) 15:46, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 16 July 2017

Kindly replace line "Adam's Bridge, also known as Rama's Bridge or Rama Setu" with "Rama's Bridge or Rama Setu, also known as Adam's Bridge " Also change title to Rama Setu instead of Adam's bridge. Sumitbhalerao135 (talk) 08:52, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

Not done: Please read the replies to similar requests above. Favonian (talk) 09:04, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

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Request to change the title of the page.

Dear Moderator, Hello, I have a request to edit the title of one of your page. The page is Adam's Bridge. I request to change the title of this page from "Adam's Bridge" to "Rama Setu" as the bridge made by Lord Rama and the real name of the bridge(setu) is "Rama Setu" not "Adam's Bridge". Waiting for yours positive response. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dattanidhyey (talk • contribs) 11:00, July 26, 2017 (UTC)

Not done: Please read the replies to similar requests above. Favonian (talk) 11:06, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 17 August 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved DrStrauss talk 18:52, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

Adam's Bridge → Rama's Bridge – A major reason given prior to this that a move should be opposed was that Sri Lankan Tamils preferred Adam's Bridge, but I can confirm that my entire social circle uses Rama's Bridge, and that even the Tamil page prioritizes Rama's Bridge too. It's already been established that North Indians and Sinhalese use Rama's Bridge. Lankandude2017 (talk) 10:20, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Oppose We never use personal experience for articles. I would expect the name to be different in different language Wikipedias and that is the way it should be. But this is the English language Wikipedia, and WP:COMMONNAME is the policy for article titles. " Wikipedia generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority of independent, reliable English-language sources)..." You haven't addressed the policy issue at all. And of course Rama's Bridge exists as a redirect, so anyone looking for that name will find the article. Doug Weller talk 13:06, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Off-topic @Lankandude2017: you seriously need to read and respond on your talk page and retract your personal attack. Doug Weller talk 13:11, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
  • Speedy close - nom is blocked again No need for this. Sources are still 70:30 in favour of the older neutral name. Close and let another user without such a busy block log resubmit later. In ictu oculi (talk) 20:47, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
  • Oppose - the majority of reputable news and literary sources use Adam's Bridge, as opposed to Rama's Bridge. Dan arndt (talk) 08:13, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
  • Oppose:Personal experience is not taken seriously in an encyclopaedia like Wikipedia. I assume the nomination is talking about his native language, Rama's Bridge is the common name in Hindi, Tamil and Indian languages so these Wikipedias will have the appropriate naming, not the English Wikipedia. Also, there has been numerous move discussions of this article, all of which ended in not moved. Thapa 75 (talk) 18:02, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Rama's Bridge

I'll make a list of a few major outlets that use the term "Rama's Bridge": http://www.newscientist.com/blog/space/2007/09/bridge-built-by-monkeys.html (Is refereed to as Rama's Bridge in Indian English) http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/indian-council-of-historical-research-to-look-for-material-evidence-of-rama-setu/articleshow/57817237.cms http://www.sundaytimes.lk/141019/columns/new-avatar-looms-over-ramas-bridge-122926.html http://www.smh.com.au/news/india/bridge-under-troubled-waters/2008/05/08/1210131155841.html http://www.amusingplanet.com/2017/06/ramas-bridge-bridge-built-by-monkeys.html http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/extinction-countdown/critically-endangered-tarantula-links-india-and-sri-lanka/ http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/supreme-court-refuses-to-give-urgent-hearing-to-plea-on-ram-sethu-1273620 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6990847.stm

I think New Scientist has made the differences clear. Since this article is being written in Indian English, we should use the term "Rama's Bridge". Wmdpoew (talk) 14:19, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 1 September 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: procedural close - disruptive nomination, nothing has changed since two weeks ago, as In ictu oculi says, a moratorium for move requests is probably in order, this can be taken to ANI if another request is opened. DrStrauss talk 17:40, 2 September 2017 (UTC)


Adam's Bridge → Rama's Bridge – This article is written in Indian English. The New Scientist concludes that the term "Rama's Bridge" is used by Indians, in contrast to the western usage of "Adam's Bridge".

http://www.newscientist.com/blog/space/2007/09/bridge-built-by-monkeys.html

I have also added several news outlets on another section that use the term "Rama's Bridge" primarily. I presume you would find a divide where native sources prefer "Rama's Bridge" while globalist sources prefer "Adam's Bridge". Wmdpoew (talk) 14:27, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

WP:COMMONNAME doesn't differentiate between English variants. So this isn't a policy based reason to move it. Doug Weller talk 15:00, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Adam's bridge might be globalisation for some but to Indians and hindus its just forceful act of suppression by British government of that age. Christianity and Hinduism are two different practices and so are adam and ram. In simplicity names can't be changed just due to translation of language or globalisation as stated. This is sheer intolerance towards the whole Hindu community and towards all Indians And SriLankans too. The page itself shows under name section multiple records of the bridge as "Ram Setu" but still on the name of globalisation some forget the atrocities committed by British in there rule in India, they to make sure that there rule continues tried to distroy the culture of my land. And as a form of respect I ask for the renaming of page as "Ram Setu" or "Ram's Bridge". Again at the end i want to focus on the fact that the bridge holds great faith and culture in Hinduism and India itself and has no relation with Adam. The renaming should be done as a mark of respect towards Indian and the suppressive act of British rule should be undone from the page. With warm regards Sarthak Sarthak Pranesh (talk) 18:47, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

Name title correctly

In 1947 a country named India seeked independence from British rule under the guidance of The Great Mahatma Gandhi. During the British rule the Britishers deliberately tried to suppress the people of my country. Under there rule they named "Ram Setu" as known by the citizens of India then and now too, as "Adam's Bridge". This deliberate renameing of "Ram Setu" took place under the forceful rule of British who just didn't try to destroy the culture and mother tongue of my country, India, but also forced or pushed westenisation on the people of my country. The renamed "Ram Setu" just does not hurt the people of my country but also deliberately tries to insult the whole Hindu community. On relation of language as Hinduism and Christianity are different so is Adam and Ram hence such a miss coating of facts should not be tolerated. As Adam having no relation with the Ram Setu the title of the page should be renamed to "Ram setu" if there is any respect left on the behalf of non-Hindus and the rest of the world community towards Hinduism and towards India itself. With warm regards Sarthak Pranesh — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sarthak Pranesh (talk • contribs) 16:21, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

@Sarthak Pranesh:, this is the English Wikipedia and the names of articles are controlled by the most common name in English-language reliable sources. This has nothing to do with respect towards people, language, or country. There are also Hindi and Bengali language Wikipedias along with many other languages absent of such "suppression," if you wish. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:11, 13 December 2017 (UTC)


This article is going to get a lot more requests now due to the TV show

Not just requests here, but false claims that it's been proved to be artificial, built by Rama, etc. Doug Weller talk 19:36, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

Is a new renaming moratorium likely to be necessary or useful, so you think? Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:40, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
What TV show? Where it's broadcast may inform any renaming moratorium... Paris1127 (talk) 20:18, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
Never mind, I checked the article. And wikilinked. Moratorium may be a good idea. Paris1127 (talk) 20:23, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

Section title

I have reverted my edit for now, I considered that the "controversies" should be renamed to "researches", though the section mostly concerns the researches, I don't think that "controversies" or "researchers" are the only options, we can also call it "Reception" or we can also make multiple sections, such as "researches", "court". Capitals00 (talk) 06:59, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for taking it here, discussion is always better than edit summaries. I think that "Researches" would be bad English (versus "Research"). Another idea may be "Origins", but we already have "Geological evolution" and "Age" which covers this. "Views" might be another possibility... —PaleoNeonate – 23:17, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
"Creation dispute" or "Dispute about origins" might also be useful. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 23:22, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
Which makes me think of other variants: "Disputed origins", "Pseudohistory" (or "Pseudoarchaeology"), "Origin myths"... Of course, the contents may be adapted to the new title as necessary. —PaleoNeonate – 07:07, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
I think "Disputed origins" covers the current content well and is the most-neutral phrase we're likely to come up with. If @Capitals00: agrees, then I think that's enough consensus to change the section title. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 15:48, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
Agreed with "Disputed origins". Capitals00 (talk) 18:10, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

 Updated, thanks! —PaleoNeonate – 10:39, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

Requesting Change in title of the page

Avoiding repetition, i just want to state that 'Adam's Bridge' is Westernisation, Abrahamicisation, Christianisation of the 'object'( nether of which is prevalent in South Asia- more importantly in India and Sri Lanka). And rest is the question of English as a language- It's not the property of the fathers of England any more. A language is an organism. India has 2nd largest English speaking nation. So it is tongue of Indians as well; which arouse a new counter-argument on the part of opposers that they have a page named 'Ram Setu' which redirects to 'Adam's Bridge'. If such a tolerance is asked on 'Ram Setu's' part, why not be asked on the part of supporters of 'Adam's Bridge'. One more thing colloqualism and popularity is language rather than the standards of books of the olds. Don't try to oppose me as jingos. Try to understand my argument's coherence and serenity, and support me. Because it's only in the names that a culture survives. I await the support of the voices which can rise above the juxtapositions to support the right cause. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ankur Deswal (talk • contribs) 17:12, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

You just failed to avoid repetition. Vanjagenije (talk) 16:01, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

I agree with this. change the name and title of the article to Ram Setu or Rama's Bridge. The article itself states that the bridge was first mentioned in Ramayana. Refer the name section. Renaming it as Adam's Bridge serves to mislead readers regarding the actual origins of the same. Meetk91 (talk) 04:05, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

@Meetk91:, please see WP:COMMONNAME. Articles on the English Wikipedia are preferentially given the most common name in reliable English language sources. Note that other language wikis, e.g., the Hindi Wikipedia apply similar standards to the most common name in the applicable language. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 04:12, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
@Eggishorn The correct translation would be Rama's Bridge or Ram's Bridge. Adam's Bridge is not a translation, it is renaming. Please change the title. If you do not agree, then please provide the details for the escalation of this grievance to a higher authority. Meetk91 (talk) 04:21, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
@Meetk91:, several things you need to be aware of:
  1. Please put your replies in the correct section. Placing your reply to my comment above in another section is confusing to everyone. I have moved your comment here where it belongs for you.
  2. Simply typing an @ sign before another editor's username does not notify them of your reply the way Twitter does. You need to notify them by typing the correct notification template, in this case {{reply|Eggishorn}}. That way I am alerted that you have said something to me.
  3. There is no "higher authority" for content disputes on Wikipedia. Wikipedia operates through the consensus of editors involved in the area. There are dispute resolution mechanisms available for content disputes and you are actually now involved in the first of them: discussion of the issue on article talk pages.
  4. If you want to change a page name you need to provide a reason why that references why the name does not comply with the article naming policy. Just saying "I think it's wrong" does not help.
  5. The most common name in English provision is part of that policy: Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it generally prefers to use the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources. You will need to demonstrate Rama's Bridge is used more than Adam's Bridge.
  6. You would also need to present reliable sources to substantiate your claim of the usage of that name. "Reliable" in this context means published in "...third-party, published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy."
I hope this helps explain some things. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 04:50, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

@Eggishorn: 1. I will keep that in mind the next time I post. 2. Okay. 3. Assuming editors do not reach an acceptable consensus even after being presented with requisite sources and the request being in-line with the policies, is there any escalation mechanism or alternative that may be used? Please do share. 4. I surely will. Please share a link to Wikipedia's policies on handling articles of a religious nature and translation policies (with guidelines for translation of pronouns and common names). I will study the same and revert accordingly. 5 & 6. I will do my homework and revert with links to reliable sources. While I am on it, I request you to share the links of reliable sources used for establishing the name Adam's Bridge. Please also share the basis for concluding that Adam's Bridge is used more often than any other. In case these are already mentioned in the External Links section of the article, please point out the specific links that have been considered. I am requesting these details so I can better understand the decision to use Adam's Bridge and rethink my request if required. Meetk91 (talk) 06:07, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

@Meetk91:, I've already included the policy links (twice) in my earlier replies. Religious subjects get exactly zero deference and the exact same policies I've pointed you to apply to them as the do to any other subject. They are the blue text above. I also linked to the dispute resolution procedures but there you are again.
You also misunderstand the process here. This is not a contest between you and I and neither am I your adversary. This is consideration of your request for a new name change. That means I have no obligation to present sources for naming, you need to provide sources to show why the current name is wrong. If, however, you look through the archives of this page (see the yellow boxes above) you will see this name change has been previously considered again and again and again. The consensus each time was to use the name you currently see. You are welcome to review those earlier discussion and I actually encourage you to do so before you offer arguments that have been heard and rejected previously. I hope that helps understanding why this article uses the name it does. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 06:30, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
Eggishorn is correct. We work on consensus. There is no higher authority to escalate to over content disputes, although there is one for conduct issues and I'm part of that. You've been given the link to our dispute resolution procedures. We don't defer to religious views as we are not a religious encyclopedia. We do not use the official name for Germany either (Bundesrepublik Deutschland). We are the English language version of Wikipedia, and we wouldn't expect other language versions to use the same name nor we we ask them to. The Hindi version (translated) calls it Ram Sethu, the Tamil one (translated) Adam's Bridge. Doug Weller talk —Preceding undated comment added 10:09, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Article name should be renamed as "Rama Sethu Bridge"

(1) Indian mythology says it was constructed by hindu god ram. The name Adam bridge misleads the history. (2) Rama Sethu bridge is NOT alias to Adam's bridge". It should be called as "Rama Sethu Bridge" ONLY.

I would request you to make the changes to the article. Jagadeesh44 (talk) 16:15, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. qwerty6811 :-) (talk) 16:57, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
@Jagadeesh44:, if you wish to respond to Qwerty6811's statement, please read at least the three prior discussions about the name of this article on this page. The name of this article has been debated many, many times before and new demands for changing the name will not be accepted unless new arguments, supported by new sources, are presented. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 17:27, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Adams bridge name should be removed.. Aryavart02 (talk) 04:49, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

@Aryavart02:, If you are making a serious request to change the name of this article, please first read the policy on article names and then the previous name change discussions on this page and its archives (linked above). After reading and considering all that, if you still think you have a new argument to make or new sources that haven't been thoroughly discussed before, please start a new section on this page to present them. If, on the other hand, this is just personal conviction that the name is wrong according to your beliefs, the name will not be changed. I hope this helps. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 14:58, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 May 2018

The title of the page should be "Ram Setu" instead of "Adam's Bridge". Thekshitijchopra (talk) 18:01, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: Read through the replies to previous requests on this talk page and its archives. Favonian (talk) 18:14, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 July 2018

Kindly name it 'Ramasetu' (as the title) to show some generosity to the basic tenets of academic accuracy. The British named it Adam's Bridge, however, in India, it was for centuries called as Ramasetu. Kindly change the title and in the intro, please put 'Ramasetu, also called as Adam's Bridge...'.

This is indeed a very important issue and Wikipedia must acknowledge and respect it as a globally famous reading source. 202.155.242.126 (talk) 06:20, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. Vanjagenije (talk) 09:24, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
  • Please see the above discussions, this was requested multiple times but we go by the English WP:COMMONNAME since this is the English Wikipedia. Thanks, —PaleoNeonate – 14:47, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
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