Talk:2022 Atlantic hurricane season/Archive 2

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Archive 1 Archive 2

Tracks of All Tropical Cyclones

FYI. I just wanted to let everybody know that the map at the beginning of the Article of the tracks of all the Tropical Cyclones during this hurricane season has NOT been fully updated. Hurricane Julia and Tropical Storm Karl haven't been added to the map yet, however it would be fine if the tracks of Hurricane Lisa and Hurricane Martin were added after they have either degenerated to remnant lows or dissipated.

The reason I haven't tried to do this yet is because I'm new and I can't edit due to the semi-protectiveness of this page, so somebody please update it.

Thanks! Wikieditorperson1 (talk) 23:35, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

You may create an edit request if you would like. Sarrail (talk) 23:38, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
I agree with you @Wikieditorperson1, the track should be updated to include Karl and Julia as well. Hurricane Chandler (talk) 01:15, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
Turns out the creator of the map, HurricaneCovid, wasn't active in the past two weeks. Certainly needs an update. Sarrail (talk) 01:18, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
How does he make them, because I could take over his role. Mitch199811 (talk) 02:04, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
It was Supportstorm that was updating the image, but appears to be offline. The file is here. Sarrail (talk) 02:11, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
@Hurricane Chandler@Mitch199811@Sarrail Do any of you guys know how to update the track map? Wikieditorperson1 (talk) 15:46, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
No, I don't. :( But I'll try to figure out how to work and update this thing. Sarrail (talk) 16:00, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
@SarrailAlright, thanks! Wikieditorperson1 (talk) 16:13, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
I don't know. One idea I had was to overlay all the maps on each other but I don't have the tools for that. Mitch199811 (talk) 16:42, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
It really is tough. I've tried using tools to also overlay Julia's and Karl's tracks on the map, and even using Procreate, but turns out it doesn't work that way! Sarrail (talk) 16:46, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
Do any of you know the creators of the combined track map? Maybe you guys can contact them so that they can update it. Wikieditorperson1 (talk) 18:13, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
Stated above, HurricaneCovid the creator, and the user who updates is Supportstorm. I have pinged them to direct them to this conversation. Sarrail (talk) 18:19, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
What was the issue; were they not cutting right? Mitch199811 (talk) 18:35, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
They have been inactive for now, based on their contributions, Supportstorm's and HurricaneCovid's. They have been out nearly a week ago (I certainly do hope they update the map soon.) Sarrail (talk) 18:39, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
No, I meant what happened to where you couldn't edit it right? Mitch199811 (talk) 18:58, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
FleurDeOdile has made the individual tracks for the storms, maybe we call them up for advice? Mitch199811 (talk) 19:00, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
Yeah I thing that might be our best bet right now. Wikieditorperson1 (talk) 20:10, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
I told them on their talk page, that we were wondering how they are made. Mitch199811 (talk) 23:52, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
Okay hopefully one of them responds. Wikieditorperson1 (talk) 01:10, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
Sadly I do not :( Hurricane Chandler (talk) 22:07, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
Not to be impatient or anything, but the combined track map needs to be updated. (The tracks of the TD part of Lisa and the Extratropical part of Martin.) Wikieditorperson1 (talk) 14:28, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

I'm not inactive just been slightly busier than usually lately. These season tracks get updated every few weeks so it's not unusual for them to be slightly outdated. I'll update them later today. Supportstorm (talk) 16:46, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

@Supportstorm I really appreciate you coming back online, and I have viewed the updated track map. Could the tracks of when the cyclones became post-tropical still be kept, like in the older version? I can't see the tracks of when they became post-tropical. Thanks for your help! Wikieditorperson1 (talk) 17:02, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
Map seems to be updated by now, by Master0Garfield. Sarrail (talk) 23:29, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
Alright. Wikieditorperson1 (talk) 11:45, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
[Reposted] Not to be impatient or anything, but the combined track map needs to be updated. (The tracks of the TD part of Lisa and the Extratropical part of Martin.) Wikieditorperson1 (talk) 15:40, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
You are being impatient, and unreasonable as well. Please stop being so demanding. Drdpw (talk) 17:40, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
BTW, the editors who are updating the map are quite busy at this time; please give them time and patience. Sarrail (talk) 17:42, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
I would be willing to update them, however, I don't even know the program used. Mitch199811 (talk) 02:08, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
Maybe it's a secret... Sarrail (talk) 02:15, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
I wonder why... Wikieditorperson1 (talk) 13:27, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
YOU GUYS, ITS CALLED TRACKGEN!!!!!!!! [1] Mitch199811 (talk) 20:35, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
Nice! Now we can (attempt [lol]) to make and edit track maps ourselves! Wikieditorperson1 (talk) 23:29, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
We need the BT files being used cause I really don't wanna deal with manually putting in numbers. Mitch199811 (talk) 23:43, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
I just noticed, but how come the extratropical track of Alex has been shortened? Wikieditorperson1 (talk) 13:50, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
Because during post-storm analysis it was determined that the remnant low, post-tropical Alex, dissipated and that it was a separate, newly formed extratropical low that was being tracked operationally, not ex-Alex. Drdpw (talk) 14:16, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
Oh okay, that clarifies it, Thanks! Wikieditorperson1 (talk) 15:32, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
I just noticed, for the 2016 Atlantic Hurricane Season, the combined track map shows the path of Major Hurricane Otto also when it crossed over into the Eastern Pacific Basin. Since that change was kept, on the 2022 Atlantic Hurricane Season track map shouldn't we also show the track of when Hurricane Julia crossed over into the Eastern Pacific basin, as well as try fitting the track of Tropical Storm (later Major Hurricane after crossover) Bonnie too? Wikieditorperson1 (talk) 18:22, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
A good example of this is Hurricane Cesar-Douglas. Cesar made landfall in Nicaragua, remained intact, and became a major hurricane under the name Douglas. However, this is not noted in the map in the 1996 Atlantic hurricane season. Otto isn't the only one noted in the map, however. Sarrail (talk) 18:40, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
I see. However I feel it would be better if we showed the paths of Tropical Storm (later Major Hurricane) Bonnie and Hurricane Julia even when they tracked into the Eastern Pacific Basin, since the purpose of the combined track map is to show the complete tracks of all of the cyclones at once, and not keeping the full tracks of Bonnie and Julia would defeat this purpose, which would also probably be the reason why the authors of the 2016 Atlantic Hurricane Season page kept the full track of Major Hurricane Otto in the combined track map. Wikieditorperson1 (talk) 18:59, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
Please don't make baseless assumptions concerning why the 2016 track maps in the Atlantic (or Pacific) season article are as they are. I would also note that, while the Otto (individual storm section) track map on the 2016 Pacific hurricane season page shows the entire track, the all-systems map does not show the entire track from the start. Drdpw (talk) 19:33, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
I apologize, and thanks for the info. Wikieditorperson1 (talk) 18:49, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
I think it is due to the shortness of how long Otto lasted, I dunno why Julia wouldn't be fully tracked, however. Mitch199811 (talk) 18:30, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
You could ask our track-map makers to create an ATL composite map showing the whole track of Julia and the eastern part of Bonnie's in the EPC, and, an EPC composite map reversely truncated for Bonnie's ATL track. Drdpw (talk) 18:44, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
Okay. Wikieditorperson1 (talk) 18:50, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
Id like to add that Bonnie shouldn't be fully tracked because it would just about double the width of the image for an effectively East Pacific Hurricane. Mitch199811 (talk) 18:47, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Yeah. What I was thinking was that only the visible eastern part of Bonnie's proposed track while in the Eastern Pacific Basin should be tracked, along with Hurricane Julia's Pacific track. Wikieditorperson1 (talk) 20:46, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
Then we would have to deal with Hurricane Cesar–Douglas's track (and any other long lived, cross basin storms). Mitch199811 (talk) 00:07, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
List of crossovers and if they are represented in they're season summary images:
1971 Atlantic hurricane season summary map
The chopped off storms were due to going over the main body of Mexico.
Mitch199811 (talk) 00:25, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
Your right. and It would be a big hassle then. But since Julia wasn't long-lived in the Pacific, we should just include that. Wikieditorperson1 (talk) 13:07, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
But then there is Hermine, who is strange and should probably be deleted from the crossover list. Mitch199811 (talk) 18:53, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
According to the NHC's protocol, "a tropical cyclone that degenerates into a remnant low in one basin and reforms in another is given a different name". I presume this means its not a crossover storm. If so, then Eleven-E and Hermine of 2010 are no more a crossover storm than are Amanda and Cristobal of 2020. Drdpw (talk) 20:44, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
I just moved her down. Mitch199811 (talk) 03:48, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

Recent edits by @Josephispoggers

So recently, a guy known as User:Josephispoggers made some edits claiming Hurricane Ian was a category 5 and Hurricane Martin was a category 2, but didn’t provide any proof on the internet. Can you guys find proof or message him to find proof and add it? 24.115.255.37 (talk) 14:58, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

We are aware of the issue, and he should be at least semi-aware that hes getting reverted. If this happens again then I would contact his user talk. Mitch199811 (talk) 16:25, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
but do u hvae any prood 24.115.255.37 (talk) 02:33, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
Fun…I just added the in-lines back that exist on Hurricane Ian that say changing without a source from NHC, NOAA, or NWS is considered vandalism. Elijahandskip (talk) 02:57, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
I remember from watching the news that it had a 155 mph wind speed, putting it at C4. It wouldn't expect a change unless a TCR thing boots it up. I don't do the TCRs though and haven't even heard about them until I accidentally reverted Colin's corrected time. Mitch199811 (talk) 18:26, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Well, Ian has peaked at a Category 4 with winds as high as 155 mph, but it could be upgraded to a Cat 5 in a post-season analysis. The name is getting retired either way. DENBRO1995 (talk) 19:09, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

What if it isn't retired, like Sally? :-) Sarrail (talk) 14:34, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
true, true 24.115.255.37 (talk) 20:20, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
It might be like Michael 2.0 when it gets upgraded from cat 4 to 5 Rainbow Galaxy POC (talk) 15:16, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
Nah, we should see about it when Ian's TCR is released. Sarrail (talk) 15:20, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Call it a season?

Should we say this hurricane season is over? There is only three days left and no tropical cyclones are expected to form within the next five days. DENBRO1995 (talk) 20:27, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

I personally would say "yes". However, as the season is not yet officially over (just under 51 hours left as I post), I would suggest, probably in vain, that the tense of verbs in the lead and summary sections not be changed to past tense until around 7:00pm EST Wednesday (00:00 UTC Thursday). Drdpw (talk) 21:02, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
I agree. The season is technically still active until 00:00 UTC on December 1. Also Drdpw, I think you mean Thursday. TornadoLGS (talk) 21:06, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
Corrected. Thanks. Drdpw (talk) 21:13, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
dont say anything until 12/31. Post-season tropical cyclones can form still.
Ok i just source edited this so no signature — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.115.255.37 (talk) 00:00, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
The season still ends at 00:00 UTC on December 1. Any December post-season storms will simply be added to the mix. Drdpw (talk) 00:33, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
Take Zeta in 2005 as an example. It formed near the “end of the holidays” and continued through 2006. Sarrail (talk) 00:38, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
What is the normal time for saying its over? Mitch199811 (talk) 00:52, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
Last year, it was declared over at ~18:00 Dec 1. Mitch199811 (talk) 00:58, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Fiona has bad mph to kph converion please fix

Fiona peaked at winds of 130 mph, which you say is 215 kph. 130 mph=209.215 km/h (or 210 kph rounded to nearest 5) (I googled that lol) 24.115.255.37 (talk) 00:02, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Yes, 130 mph to km/h rounded results in: 130 mph (210 km/h). However, tropical cyclone wind speed is first measured in knots (115 knots in this case) and converted and rounded from there: 115 knots (130 mph; 215 km/h). Drdpw (talk) 00:26, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
Do the info boxes use MPH or knots when calculating windspeed? Mitch199811 (talk) 00:53, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
they use mph but i want it to be better understood and changed so more people dont say similar things — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.115.255.37 (talk) 01:14, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
In the case of Fiona, the wind speed of 115 knots is converted into mph and km/h, and presented as: 130 mph (215 km/h). And you are correct, not everyone knows this, few non-weather enthusiasts do, that's for sure. Drdpw (talk) 01:31, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Names should be in alphabetical order.

So I was looking at the list, and I saw that Ian came before Hermine. But should it be in alphabetical order from Hermine to Ian like Alex, Bonnie, Colin, etcetera? MasterWolf0928-Æthelwulf (talk) 16:59, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

This is not the case. Ian’s precursor formed first, TD 9, and then Hermine, TD 10, formed after the formation of TD 9. Hermine got the name first because it strengthened first, while Ian strengthened later, attaining the name Ian later. This is also a tad bit confusing to readers, as this is not the first time someone questioned about the alphabetical order between Hermine and Ian. Sarrail (talk) 17:10, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Alright, just asking because it didn't really make any sense to me. MasterWolf0928-Æthelwulf (talk) 17:14, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
The list follow the formation order, not the naming one. These not always coincide with each other, one can be named later than the other, while having formed before the latter. ABC paulista (talk) 17:04, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
We've been asked this a lot, should we put in an FAQ? Mitch199811 (talk) 18:50, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
It wouldn't hurt. Not sure how much good it would do since plenty of people won't read it. I already have hidden text in the article explaining this discrepancy. TornadoLGS (talk) 01:18, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
Okay, I added an FAQ. TornadoLGS (talk) 03:34, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
Im gonna also add "Why isnt Ian listed as the strongest storm?" Mitch199811 (talk) 19:45, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
Yeah. That would be a good idea because many people are getting confused as why on the season stats at the top of the page, it is listed that Hurricane Fiona was the strongest storm, which is correct, however a lot of people don't know that "most intense" means in terms of barometric pressure. Wikieditorperson1 (talk) 18:26, 25 November 2022 (UTC)
I just added the question about Ian and Hermine in the "notes" section. Wikieditorperson1 (talk) 15:34, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Colin image

See also: Talk:2022 Atlantic hurricane season/Archive 1 § Colin's image

The image of Colin looks very blurry compared to others. suggesting to change it Rainbow Galaxy POC (talk) 23:08, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

I agree. Although the previous image of Tropical Storm Colin had the LLC (Low-Level Circulation) exposed, the image was clearer than the current one. We should either revert it back, or find a better image. Wikieditorperson1 (talk) 23:21, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
It might be the IR. Mitch199811 (talk) 23:41, 23 November 2022 (UTC)
An editor has replaced the blurry 2022-07-02 0320Z.png with the clearer Colin 2022-07-02 1600Z.jpg image – (09:48, November 28, 2022). I prefer this image because of its clarity and the detailed low-level clouds in, qualities that are lacking in the infrared image. Drdpw (talk) 15:48, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

About the 2023 Atlantic hurricane season

The requirements for creating the 2023 Atlantic hurricane season there MUST be an extended rage forecast before you create the article these usually come out in Mid-December. PopularGames (talk) 22:58, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Where's the tropical storm Colin Wikipedia page

I thought somebody made it But where did it go? 2601:8C:8200:1700:B80D:9691:C1C8:299C (talk) 00:24, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

It was redirected following this discussion: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Tropical Storm Colin (2022). Drdpw (talk) 00:32, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

Redirect 2028 article

the 2022 season is over and the naming list will be used in 2028 again. should create the 2028 article and redirect it to Tropical cyclone naming#North Atlantic Ocean Rainbow Galaxy POC (talk) 22:34, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

No harm in creating said redirect after the first of the year, as 2028 will then be within the 6-year window (even though the list of names for 2028 will not be officially released until April 2023). Drdpw (talk) 22:56, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
Shouldnt we wait till April then? ✶Mitch199811✶ (talk) 15:59, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
Since 2028 is not mentioned there, a redirect would be inappropriate. We should wait until the 2028 list is published and added to the list. We still have to wait on retired names and their replacements. TornadoLGS (talk) 03:17, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

damage

You edited the damage that Hurricane Fiona dealt to a higher number, but never edited the total damage to reflect the higher number. Can you fix it? Also fix it on Tropical cyclones in 2022. Tysm if you do. 24.115.255.37 (talk) 00:19, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

If you could give me the current total, I would put it in. ✶Mitch199811✶ (talk) 14:12, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
 Done The dollar figure has been adjusted . Drdpw (talk) 14:27, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
can you add a citation for the damage Fiona did? 24.115.255.37 (talk) 23:48, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
There is one in the table already. Drdpw (talk) 00:11, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Season predictions upper portion

The upper portion of the table says that 1983 is the year with the lowest tropical activity when it should be 1914 or if its only 1991 onwards probably 2013. ✶Mitch199811✶ (talk) 14:18, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

It might be since 1930, for the linked 1983 season article opens with the statement, The 1983 Atlantic hurricane season was the least active Atlantic hurricane season since 1930. Drdpw (talk) 14:35, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
But why? ✶Mitch199811✶ (talk) 00:37, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
It's probably since 1950, because 1950 was when storm records in this basin became more reliable. In that case, the least active would have been 1983. To answer Drdpw's point, the since 1930 part meant the most recent season that had lower activity (1930 had only three TSs, while 1983 had four). 🇺🇦 Chicdat  Bawk to me! 11:49, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Article Class

When are we changing the class of the article from Current to B or something? ✶Mitch199811✶ (talk) 15:47, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

Now. In fact, we already did so. 🇺🇦 Chicdat  Bawk to me! 11:58, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

2023 Hurricane Season Article?

When will 2023 Season Article be made since you guys usually do it after previous season ends on November 30, like for example in December or January. 2601:8C:417F:B80:4D0C:E221:85E3:3624 (talk) 17:30, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Any named Atlantic tropical system that forms from now until December 31, 2022 (end of the year) will be included in this article. You can even see this with storms such as Hurricane Alice (1954 as opposed to 1955), and Tropical Storm Zeta (2005 as opposed to 2006) which spanned two calendar years. So probably sometime in January at the earliest would be time. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 17:54, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
FYI I added this to the "2022 Atlantic hurricane season/FAQ" section at the top of this page. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:01, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
An article start is ready to go, but the page itself (2023 Atlantic hurricane season) is currently a redirect, and will likely remain so until spring, barring an off-season storm of course. Drdpw (talk) 18:19, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Don't we usually make the article when the first pre-season forecast comes out? That was the consensus that came out when the 2020 season got AfD'd. TornadoLGS (talk) 18:23, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
 Courtesy link: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2020 Atlantic hurricane season. Sarrail (talk) 18:26, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
Perhaps an RfC on this question would be in order either here or at Talk:2023 Atlantic hurricane season. Drdpw (talk) 18:47, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
If it fails now, I would wait till very late December (like pass Christmas) or January. ✶Mitch199811✶ (talk) 00:17, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

Usually the next season's article is needed once we have the first bit of new independent information. That means the first annual forecast, which typically comes out in December. Given that this season might not be over (check the special tropical weather outlook), I think there's no harm in waiting. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:48, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

If Owen forms do we go back to current class? ✶Mitch199811✶ (talk) 03:27, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
No, the season is over; any overtime will be fleeting. Drdpw (talk) 03:49, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
Actually, it would be set back to current class since it would have an active storm. Elijahandskip (talk) 04:06, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

lisa

lisa's damage is $10 million, does that warrant an article? TBH, that is pretty notable but not sure if it is notable enough 2600:4041:474:D00:AD5B:D79D:E232:C91D (talk) 21:44, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

It'd be the second lowest to Hermine, and Hermine only got one because of how east it formed I believe. The consensus was that it was just like any other category 1 hurricane hitting Central America. ✶Mitch199811✶ (talk) 22:26, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
@Mitch199811 The main reason why Hermine has an article is because It unfortunately sunk a boat that was refugee boat coming from Western Sahara off the coast of the Canary Islands carrying 34 refugees and 33 of them passed away unfortunately, but for the IP address Lisa isn't that notable it only caused $10 Million and nobody died from Lisa. Cyclonetracker7586 (talk) 23:22, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
If you can find enough sources to write prose that fit notability, then write a draft and submit it. From what I've seen, there isn't much out there regarding Lisa, hence why it lacks an article Gumballs678 talk 01:56, 7 December 2022 (UTC)

Logical ordering

Could someone please rename the "Other systems" section as "Potential Tropical Cyclone Four" and put it where it belongs chronologically (so before Hurricane Danielle?). Thanks, 173.179.105.16 (talk) 13:25, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: We don't need to add this. Potential tropical cyclones normally belong in the "Other systems" section. Sarrail (talk) 13:35, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
There's nothing to be added. This is already in the article. It just makes no sense to have it out of order like that. Unnamed depressions are included as such (ex. "Tropical Depression Eleven") and in the proper spot; I see no reason why a generic "other systems" is necessary when 1) there is only one such system and 2) placing it in chronological order is not particularly difficult. 173.179.105.16 (talk) 19:43, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
Tropical depressions are still tropical cyclones. Disturbances (which is what potential tropical cyclones are) are not. TornadoLGS (talk) 20:42, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
That distinction is entirely irrelevant to the point I'm making, particularly if both are still included in the article. Most disturbances do not get designated "Potential Tropical Cyclones", even those that actually go on to become cyclones (as can be easily verified from the article - there were PTCs 1, 2, 4, 13 and 15, and of those all but 4 became TCs). Many do not in fact become tropical cyclones or pose any threat to land, and are not included in the article. Fact is, the NHC actually published a "Tropical Cyclone Report" for PTC 4 ([2]), which it hasn't done, AFAIK, for all the other disturbances that didn't become storms (looking through their archives, the only other example I can find is Potential Tropical Cyclone Ten). Simply put, if "Potential Tropical Cyclone Four" is deemed noteworthy enough to be included in the article (as it already is), then there is no logical ground for either of:
A) hiding away what is being talked about with a vague "Other systems" title; or
B) plural "systems" when there is only one; or
C) putting it at the bottom, out of chronological order.
In fact, looking at previous articles, the practice seems to be rather uniform in including a separate section for each system that was the object of NHC advisories and/or of a post-season tropical cyclone report (see for example 2013_Atlantic_hurricane_season#Unnamed_subtropical_storm or 2011_Atlantic_hurricane_season#Unnamed_tropical_storm).
Finally, "other systems" gives a misleading impression that the section is expected to give some form of overview of "other" systems which did not develop into named or numbered storms, but deceptively really is only about one particular system. 173.179.105.16 (talk) 21:31, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
Edit (in response to the first comment): it's rather inaccurate to say where something "normally" belongs when inclusion of such things is the exception rather than the rule (the only other instance of a P[otential]TC being included is, as noted above, Potential Tropical Cyclone Ten (2017). One can hardly speak about something "normally" when there are only two examples. 173.179.105.16 (talk) 21:47, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
This isn't the only one. You can find another Potential Tropical cyclone, Seventeen-E, in the "Other systems" section. As TornadoLGS mentioned above, tropical depressions, tropical storms, and subtropical storms, even when unnamed, are still considered tropical cyclones. Disturbances, like potential tropical cyclones, are not. Sarrail (talk) 22:31, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
And again it is the only "other system" listed there, and it also has its own article. The NHC does not appear to be making quite the same difference one sees on Wikipedia (i.e. they issue advisories and publish cyclone reports at the end of the season for named storms, unnamed depressions and potential tropical cyclones alike). This is trivial to verify, [3] lists the Potential Tropical Cyclone just like all the other storms. Nobody is arguing that run-of-the-mill disturbances which did not develop further should be included, but it is clear that PTC4, PTC10 (2017) and PTC17E are not "run-of-the-mill", mere uninteresting disturbances, if the NHC bothered publishing reports on them. This, and the issue that section headers should accurately describe the contents of their respective section - something which "other systems" does not do. 173.179.105.16 (talk) 22:46, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure PTCs are only classed that way because they require warnings as before their use in 2017(?) they couldn't do warnings. This whole comment though probably needs a [citation needed], however. ✶Mitch199811✶ (talk) 19:54, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
This might be what you're looking for. Whatever the reason behind the NHC's change of procedure, the result is that there is coverage about those storms, particularly when they did impact land (as evidenced by both PTC10 and PTC17E). I don't see how that justifies the difference in coverage between PTCs and, say, tropical storms which formed in the middle of the ocean and did not ultimately threaten land. As I was saying earlier, there's no logical reason why one should have a sub-section about, I dunno, Tropical Storm Don but none about Potential Tropical Cyclone Ten. Or pick any example from this year, I dunno, Tropical Depression Twelve. The fact that the difference in coverage here on Wikipedia does not match the sources remains true. 173.179.105.16 (talk) 21:07, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
At a certain point I feel like you should head straight up to the Wikiproject itself. ✶Mitch199811✶ (talk) 01:43, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
TLDR: the distinction between how information is presented on the rare impactful-but-did-not-develop-further "potential tropical cyclones" and "tropical cyclones" (i.e. depressions, named storms) is one which does not exist in the sources. 173.179.105.16 (talk) 23:00, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. There have been objections, so I'm closing this pending consensus for the edit. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 23:44, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

Generally speaking in my view, the Other Systems section is designed for weak tropical cyclones, which cannot justify a full-blown section within the season article. These are systems that do not last long, move into a basin for less than 48 hours, do not impact land. Personally, I am not so sure that the section should include potential tropical cyclones, since the whole point of such a system is that they are thought to cause significant impacts on land.Jason Rees (talk) 13:48, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
Aside from potential tropical cyclones, we've used the "other systems" section to note storms which were recognized as TCs/STCs by some organization, but were not recognized officially, such as the low in the Bay of Biscay in 2016. TornadoLGS (talk) 17:32, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
Looking at existing pages, that doesn't quite seem to be the case, in that named or numbered storms and dpressions generally get a section for themselves even if they were short-lived and did not impact land, see for example the unnamed storms mentioned earlier. 173.179.105.16 (talk) 19:26, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
Potential Tropical Cyclone Four does not belong listed chronologically among the numbered/named tropical cyclones of the season because it was not one. It was designated as a potential tropical cyclone, but did not become one. Take a look at the Monthly Tropical Weather Summary (NWS, Dec 1 2022), and note in the season summary table that PTC4 is not listed among the numbered depressions and named storms. Drdpw (talk) 21:37, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
You might wanna go say that to the NHC, [4], who do include the tropical cyclone report associated with it (even though it did not become a tropical cyclone) listed chronologically. Might also want to say them the same thing about PTC10 (2017) and PTC17E (2019). In any case, sources trump the opinion of a random Wikipedian. If you claim that, as a mere "potential" tropical cyclone, this doesn't belong, then why include it at all? On the other hand, if it does belong, as an significant weather event which did originate from the same set of circumstances that lead to the other similar if more fully developed systems listed in the article (including many which did not ultimately cause any damage or casualties), then there is no logical reason why one should arbitrarily put it in an "other systems" section. 173.179.105.16 (talk) 22:27, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
You're the one making a request; perhaps you should ask why, even though it did not become a tropical cyclone, the NHC includes a tropical cyclone report on PTC4 (2022) with and chronologically among those for numbered/named tropical cyclones, but excludes it completely from its various listings of the season's numbered/named tropical cyclones. Now as to how we ought to treat/place PTC4 (2022), as well as PTC10 (2017) and PTC17E (2019)—"why include it at all?" "Why one should arbitrarily put it in an 'other systems' section?"—you might consider raising this issue at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Tropical cyclones. The current pattern, giving potential tropical cyclones a subsection in the season season article's systems section under the header "Other systems" is not going to change for this article in isolation, apart from 2017 Atlantic and 2019 Pacific season articles, and the project talk page is the place where a consensus to change the pattern/practice needs to be reached. Drdpw (talk) 23:20, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

RE:Other systems section

What about noting non-developed invests in the Other Systems section along with the PTC? Drdpw (talk) 14:41, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Sure, why not. Sarrail (talk) 14:43, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
Is there sufficient coverage about those to warrant this? One ought not to fall into WP:RECENTISM or excessive details. I mean, the three PTC that are currently included as "Other systems" here and in other articles, even if they didn't develop further, have all been the subject of post season reports, and some of them went on to cause significant damage even as non tropical cyclones - two out of three currently also have their own article. I mean, the difference between those three designated PTCs and full-blown TCs of any strength is smaller (in terms of coverage in sources) than between the non-developed invests. 173.179.105.16 (talk) 18:53, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
I feel like that's too much. Getting an extra dozen or few items in there might be too much. ✶Mitch199811✶ (talk) 19:56, 9 December 2022 (UTC)
The problem with including invests would be that the numbers and the data is overwritten several times a year. I know Steve Young includes most invests in his track file, but in all honesty I do wonder if we would be able to get away with using it for anything major. Jason Rees (talk) 20:16, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

PTC 4 as an article

The other two PTC's have articles should we give 4 one? ✶Mitch199811✶ (talk) 18:56, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

PTC4 was a short-lived disturbance that caused no casualties or impacts. So no, it doesn't merit a standalone article. Its story is fully told here in this article. Drdpw (talk) 21:51, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Colin's image (part 3)

Current image
Suggested image

I propose that we change Colin's image, as the current image shows it only a few hours before being downgraded to a tropical depression. In my opinion, we should go with File:Colin 2022-07-02 1211Z.jpg, as this image uses visible imagery, however is fairly closer to peak, and shows it in an earlier stage of dissipation. SolarisPenguin (talk) 22:24, 12 December 2022 (UTC)

We could crop the image to show Colin only (and not the US as far as Missouri.) Sarrail (talk) 22:41, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
Does that require a new file or can we do that on the article? ✶Mitch199811✶ [Talk] 00:06, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
With how short the storm lasted, I can't imagine any image is going to be anything but a few hours before being a depression. ✶Mitch199811✶ [Talk] 03:42, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
The image that I suggested, while being only 4 hours closer to peak, shows the storm in a better state and shows it 6 hours prior to being a depression, rather than 2. While it'd be a relatively minor upgrade, I believe that it'd still be beneficial and a better reflection of peak. SolarisPenguin (talk) 03:47, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
Guys honestly there's really no point of changing Colin's image Colin's intensity didn't really fluctuate during its run I'll see if Colin's intensity difference was 15 knots and/or 5-10 Milibars from its peak then change it, plus by the time daylight arrived Colin's structure was already falling apart due to land interaction I suppose. We should just leave it be and use the current image it was still a Tropical Storm near its peak albeit close to becoming a depression. Cyclonetracker7586 (talk) 01:35, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
Adding on, the benefit of being a whole four hours closer to peak sacrifices on actual image quality. The current image is pretty clear while the suggested image quite blocky if I remember right. ✶Mitch199811✶ [Talk] 03:37, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
Blech. The suggested image looks grainy IMO. Is it possible to crop the image SolarisPenguin's suggested? I'm not an image expert, so I'm out. Sarrail (talk) 03:49, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
The image I suggested was another visible image, not the image you've shown here. SolarisPenguin (talk) 12:08, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
I know. That’s what I meant. Sarrail (talk) 12:53, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
@Sarrail @Mitch199811 and @SolarisPenguin I'll see what I can do I'll probably find some archive IR imagery of Colin at peak intensity that might not be too grainy and blurry as the suggested image, but if I can't, then we will have to use the current image since the other visible images that I uploaded weren't too much of an improvement from the original though they were taken earlier by the time daylight arrived Colin's structure was already collapsing. But once again, I don't think we should change the image since Colin's intensity was pretty much the same its entire run from formation to dissipation. Cyclonetracker7586 (talk) 15:37, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
@SolarisPenguin @Mitch199811 @Sarrail Not trying to bother you guys but I'm going to ping you guys again since you guys are apart the discussion about this, so there's good news and bad news the good news is that I found archived imagery, but the bad news is that it won't be an improvement over the current "suggested image" due to GOES 16 Infrared band only having a spatial resolution of 2km the so infrared image will appear blurry and grainy regardless if it's a JPG, PNG or TIF file, and the source of the "suggested image" is also from that particular satellite. We should stick to the current image, sometimes we will have to work with the next best thing on Wikipedia and according to the WPTC/IMG guidelines we can use a images are within 5% (in knots) of the peak intensity hence "near peak intensity" on some of the tropical cyclone articles on Wikipedia, When the 1600Z image was taken Colin's intensity was around 35 knots with a pressure of 1011 Millibars while its peak was......well the same exact stats aka a 0% difference according to Colin's TCR so basically Colin's "peak intensity" was from its formation at 2330Z on July 1 to 1800Z on July 2. So in conclusion the current image falls within the "peak intensity" though yes Colin close to being a depression at the time. So there's not much of a reason to change the image, I hope you guy can understand that cheers. Cyclonetracker7586 (talk) 16:45, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
This is our (your) 3rd conversation about Colin. Is it possible to add a note or summary of the decided image? ✶Mitch199811✶ [Talk] 23:41, 16 December 2022 (UTC)
There's File:Colin 2022-07-02 0715Z.jpg, which is an infrared image that comes from Worldview, and is better resolution than the current suggested image. SolarisPenguin (talk) 11:37, 18 December 2022 (UTC)
Still not awesome and since it was all "peak" I would just chill with the higher quality current image. ✶Mitch199811✶ [Talk] 02:40, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
I'm going to ping @Drdpw, @TornadoLGS, and @Jason Rees to see their opinions on this so we can put this discussion to rest and get more of a consensus they're probably going to agree to keep the "current image" that Mitch and I are agreeing to keep since it's unnecessary to change the image since Colin's intensity didn't really fluctuate during the time it was active, but I could be wrong their opinions might be different we'll see what they have to say about this. Cyclonetracker7586 (talk) 17:08, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
Do you think this is getting a bit out of hand, I feel like you, me, and Sarrail all agreeing should be enough and at worst its no consensus which means we keep the older image (Especially as we have already decided on that image). ✶Mitch199811✶ 17:46, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
@Mitch199811 Yeah you're right I think us three should be enough for a consensus I wasn't thinking clearly and shouldn't drag other users into this discussion, I'm just going to add a hidden message on the article so there won't be a another discussion about Colin's image, cheers. Cyclonetracker7586 (talk) 18:16, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
The current image is best given all the nuances of the storm as discussed above. Also, IMO, a hidden message in the article section is unnecessary. If anyone changes the image in the future, just leave a link to this discussion in the edit summary when reverting their edit. Drdpw (talk) 18:31, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

Lisa draft

DISRUPTIVE DISCUSSION
Started by a now blocked sock account. Topic is irrelevant at this time and is considered disruptive.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I have restored the draft for Lisa now that new information regarding it has arisen. I will try to work on it, and if anyone would like to help I would be grateful for it! You can find it here: Draft:Hurricane Lisa ChumsworthAnimations (talk) 04:21, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Here are some reasons Lisa is notable:
  1. Was two weeks later then average 12th named storm; not enough for an article but still could be mentioned
  2. First hurricane to strike Belize in November since 1942
  3. State of emergency in Belize, which was the reason Hurricane Danielle (2022) recieved an article (I think)
  4. $10 million in damage was lost, and the Belize Government requested $11 million be sent to them due to damage
  5. Struck Belize; I know its not much but making landfall is semi-notable alone
These are the best I found, but there are probably small reasons that add to the notability. ChumsworthAnimations (talk) 04:37, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
Also, Drdpw, please don't re-redirect it. It's a draft to be worked on. ✶Mitch199811✶ 05:20, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
This storm does not merit a stand alone article. I have put some effort into building a decent size article and there isn’t much out there. Lisa’s impact was quick and minimal. It is a classic example of a landfalling hurricane whose story can be well told in the season article. Drdpw (talk) 23:48, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
  • @RandomWeatherTracker and Mitch199811: I would strongly suggest that you develop the article further by looking through local newspapers and doing some proper research into the system. If there truly was $10 million dollars worth of damage in Belize, local newspapers and the government will have further details on what the system did, however, I will also note that the state of emergency was issued before the storm impacted Belize. At the moment as someone who doesn't know much about what Lisa did, I am inclined to agree with @Drdpw: that an article isn't needed based on the sandbox presented. Jason Rees (talk) 00:11, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
    I just dont want him to make it into a redirect to the season article. ✶Mitch199811✶ 01:24, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
    It is a draft it is for expanding, not redirection. We need a chance to work on it. RandomWeatherTracker (talk) 01:37, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
    @Mitch199811 and RandomWeatherTracker: Lets clarify a few things here: You can have some time to work on it in draft space without having to submit it for a review or worried that @Drdpw: or anyone will turn it into a redirect. Hell im not even sure if Wikipedia Policies allow us to redirect the draft article to the season article, however, it has to be noted that you have already submiited it for a review which says that your ready for it to come out into main space and have its notability judged by the community. As a result, if I were to judge it right now, I would say that I am not sure it is that notable and probably either redirect or nominate it for deletion, after all not every tropical cyclone that impacts land is worthy of an article and the contents of said article are best placed in either the season article, TC/floods in x etc.Jason Rees (talk) 02:03, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

04L track

I notice that the track for Potential Tropical Cyclone Four (pictured) has not been updated for the TCR even though it has been released (here). RandomInfinity17 (talk - contributions) 23:49, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

I will be doing it, Im just waiting for trackgen to cooperate with me. ✶Mitch199811✶ 00:57, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
Trackgen still wants to be annoying; if anyone else wants to try it go ahead. ✶Mitch199811✶ 16:47, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
I'll do it myself then. RandomInfinity17 (talk - contributions) 16:57, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
Personally I wonder if its not better to keep with the operational track since it shows more tracking points for PTC 4 then the TCR does.Jason Rees (talk) 17:03, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
Given that the track image is not used in the season article and that the system was too unremarkable for it to have a stand-alone article, does it really matter? If it does, then I suggest maintaining the official post season best track. Drdpw (talk) 18:19, 10 February 2023 (UTC)
Why did we decide to not give them their own track in the season article? ✶Mitch199811✶ 00:11, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

Ongoing RFC relating to this article

There is an ongoing RfC which pertains to this article. You can participate in the RfC here. Elijahandskip (talk) 21:18, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

For clarity – an RfC at Talk:Hurricane Nicole concerning the best image of Hurricane Nicole to use. Drdpw (talk) 22:48, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

vandalisms

just realized that the 2022 storm articles are being vandalized by multiple ips and some of them are user accounts . not sure if its one person using multiple ips to vandalize them or a group of people are raiding these articles

involved articles include: Alex, Bonnie, Danielle, Earl, Fiona as far as i can remember so far. and for some reason some articles like Ian.. bascially every article that happened after hermine is not affected Rainbow Galaxy POC (talk) 22:38, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Every article except Fiona has been temporary protected. I've just requested Earl's page to be semi protected. Fiona's article hasn't been vandalized since April. 🛧Layah50♪🛪 ( 話す? 一緒に飛ぼう！) 23:22, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

First sentence

I feel like the first sentence is a bit sudden in dropping you straight into facts. Currently, it goes straight into telling you is was the first season to not have a storm in August, which I feel like doesn't summarize the article well. Maybe changing to the following or something similar would help:

The 2022 Atlantic hurricane season was a slightly below average, but damaging, hurricane season.

That is an extremely rough draft and should be edited, but I based it off of the 2021 Atlantic hurricane season. ✶Mitch199811✶ 16:02, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

The first few sentences currently state: The 2022 Atlantic hurricane season was the first season since 1997 in which no tropical cyclones formed in August, and the first season on record to do so during a La Niña year. It was a fairly average hurricane season with an average number of named storms, a slightly above-average number of hurricanes, a slightly below-average number of major hurricanes (which are Category 3 or higher on the 5-level Saffir–Simpson scale), and a near-normal accumulated cyclone energy (ACE) index. Despite this, it became one of the costliest Atlantic hurricane seasons on record, mostly due to Hurricane Ian.
To expand upon Mitch199811's rough draft opening sentence, how about refining the first few sentences thusly:

The 2022 Atlantic hurricane season was a fairly average, yet very destructive hurricane season. There were 14 named storms, of which 8 strengthened into a hurricane, with 2 reaching major hurricane intensity (Category 3 or higher on the 5-level Saffir–Simpson scale). The season's accumulated cyclone energy (ACE) index was approximately 95.1 units. Collectively, these systems caused at least 304 deaths and more than $118.29 billion (2022 USD) in damage, making it one of the costliest seasons on record.

NOTE: In this suggestion I envision: moving the "no tropical cyclones formed in August" and the "first season do so during a La Niña year" clauses to the second paragraph, and moving the "deaths and $-damage" sentence up from the third paragraph. Drdpw (talk) 19:38, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Source for Third costliest season on record

If I understand and am interpreting policy correctly, while it is ok to add the different hurricane damage totals together per WP:CALC, the statement that it is the third costliest Atlantic hurricane season on record must have a source. An RfC back in April-May 2023 made that determination when referring to whether X tornado was the costliest of the year. In short, the RfC concluded that to say something is the Xth costliest, a reliable secondary source needs to state that. I have read the article, and cannot find a source directly stating that. Can someone locate a source for that statement? If not, it needs to be removed, as it would violate WP:OR, given no source states it. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 04:15, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Found a source. 160.72.80.50 (talk) 18:06, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
I feel like Im having deja vu; didn't somebody already get yelled at for messing with hurricane costs from that same RFC because tornadoes and hurricanes arent the same? But anyways, IP address added their source in. ✶Mitch199811✶ 18:38, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
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